OK, so a while back I purchased a few Dan Congs from Teaspring, one I
really like the other I don't care for... Here's my problem: I need to
order more. The one pack, that I like, is labeled Song Zhong and is
very peachy and great. The other pack is labeled Feng Huang and
contains very long leaves and is very orchid flavored and I despise
it. Seems simple, right, just buy more of the one I like. Not so easy.
Their website seems to state the opposite, that the peachy one is the
Feng Huang and the Song Zhong as orchidy. Either their packaging was
mislabeled or their website is mixed up.

Not being an expert, more of a neophyte, on Dan Congs I am a bit
stumped and I'm sure someone here can help me out. Which is the real
peachy heavenly oolong I need more of?

- Dominic

On Jan 8, 5:51*pm, "Dominic T." > wrote:
> OK, so a while back I purchased a few Dan Congs from Teaspring, one I
> really like the other I don't care for... Here's my problem: I need to
> order more. The one pack, that I like, is labeled Song Zhong and is
> very peachy and great. The other pack is labeled Feng Huang and
> contains very long leaves and is very orchid flavored and I despise
> it. Seems simple, right, just buy more of the one I like. Not so easy.
> Their website seems to state the opposite, that the peachy one is the
> Feng Huang and the Song Zhong as orchidy. Either their packaging was
> mislabeled or their website is mixed up.
>
> Not being an expert, more of a neophyte, on Dan Congs I am a bit
> stumped and I'm sure someone here can help me out. Which is the real
> peachy heavenly oolong I need more of?
>
> - Dominic

No expert on Dan Congs either (they all seem too bitter to me), but
I think they're the only ones who can give you a definite answer and
last time I was in contact with them (very recently), they were very
responsive, replying on the same day! I really like teaspring.com!

On Jan 8, 10:00*pm, Rainy > wrote:
> On Jan 8, 5:51*pm, "Dominic T." > wrote:
>
> > OK, so a while back I purchased a few Dan Congs from Teaspring, one I
> > really like the other I don't care for... Here's my problem: I need to
> > order more. The one pack, that I like, is labeled Song Zhong and is
> > very peachy and great. The other pack is labeled Feng Huang and
> > contains very long leaves and is very orchid flavored and I despise
> > it. Seems simple, right, just buy more of the one I like. Not so easy.
> > Their website seems to state the opposite, that the peachy one is the
> > Feng Huang and the Song Zhong as orchidy. Either their packaging was
> > mislabeled or their website is mixed up.
>
> > Not being an expert, more of a neophyte, on Dan Congs I am a bit
> > stumped and I'm sure someone here can help me out. Which is the real
> > peachy heavenly oolong I need more of?
>
> > - Dominic
>
> No expert on Dan Congs either (they all seem too bitter to me), but
> I think they're the only ones who can give you a definite answer and
> last time I was in contact with them (very recently), they were very
> responsive, replying on the same day! I really like teaspring.com!

Yeah, they are very good I just figured someone here could set the
record straight. Even their customer reviews are mixed up and confused
between the two. I'm guessing my packages came mislabeled and the site
is right... if so I have to go back and revise my coverage of the Song
Zhong.

As for bitterness, I have encountered zero bitterness actually. They
are said to be pretty demanding in brewing but I have yet to create an
offensive cup even of the orchidy one which I just don't like. I have
brewed the peachy one in my gaiwan, Taiwan tasting set, and a smallish
Yixing teapot all to great results with just below rapid boiling
("crab eye" to "fish eye" boil) and about 45 seconds to a minute
brewing for the first steep. My guess would be about 1.5-2g tea.

I'll email them today and post the result here.

- Dominic

On Jan 8, 8:51*pm, "Dominic T." > wrote:
> OK, so a while back I purchased a few Dan Congs from Teaspring, one I
> really like the other I don't care for... Here's my problem: I need to
> order more. The one pack, that I like, is labeled Song Zhong and is
> very peachy and great. The other pack is labeled Feng Huang and
> contains very long leaves and is very orchid flavored and I despise
> it. Seems simple, right, just buy more of the one I like. Not so easy.
> Their website seems to state the opposite, that the peachy one is the
> Feng Huang and the Song Zhong as orchidy. Either their packaging was
> mislabeled or their website is mixed up.
>
> Not being an expert, more of a neophyte, on Dan Congs I am a bit
> stumped and I'm sure someone here can help me out. Which is the real
> peachy heavenly oolong I need more of?
>
> - Dominic

I'd guess the Feng Huang. I my (limited) experience they typically
have a lovely peach note, especially the first few steeps.

I don't think I've ever had a Song Zhong. Other than the orchid
element, what else distinguishes it?

Dean

On Jan 9, 10:24*am, wrote:
> I'd guess the Feng Huang. *I my (limited) experience they typically
> have a lovely peach note, especially the first few steeps.
>
> I don't think I've ever had a Song Zhong. *Other than the orchid
> element, what else distinguishes it?
>
> Dean

The orchidy (labeled Feng Huang but believed to be Song Zhong) one
also has very long leaves, almost the longest I've ever seen and close
to something like Tai Ping Hou Kui except they are tightly furled
vertically and long. Many I'd guess 3-4" and one leaf that was around
4-5". They are mostly a dark brown but some have streaks of a gold
tone to them. It is exceptionally high quality tea with no doubt, I
just do not like the orchid/flower/perfume scent or taste personally.
I'd imagine this to be ethereal and exquisite to someone who does
enjoy that type of flavor though like a green oolong/tgy but this is
very very refined. Even though I intensely dislike it I've actually
revisited it a number of times just because of how complex and unique
it is.

- Dominic

On Jan 8, 5:51*pm, "Dominic T." > wrote:
> OK, so a while back I purchased a few Dan Congs from Teaspring, one I
> really like the other I don't care for... Here's my problem: I need to
> order more. The one pack, that I like, is labeled Song Zhong and is
> very peachy and great. The other pack is labeled Feng Huang and
> contains very long leaves and is very orchid flavored and I despise
> it. Seems simple, right, just buy more of the one I like. Not so easy.
> Their website seems to state the opposite, that the peachy one is the
> Feng Huang and the Song Zhong as orchidy. Either their packaging was
> mislabeled or their website is mixed up.
>
> Not being an expert, more of a neophyte, on Dan Congs I am a bit
> stumped and I'm sure someone here can help me out. Which is the real
> peachy heavenly oolong I need more of?
>
> - Dominic

Dominic, your post is encouraging. I've been following the discussion
group for quite a while now, feeling too novice and intimidated to
really contribute anything. It's refreshing to see that you guys are
actually not omniscient with regard to tea.

Let us know which is the oolong you were looking for!

-ryan

On Jan 10, 12:47*pm, burns > wrote:
> Dominic, your post is encouraging. I've been following the discussion
> group for quite a while now, feeling too novice and intimidated to
> really contribute anything. It's refreshing to see that you guys are
> actually not omniscient with regard to tea.
>
> Let us know which is the oolong you were looking for!
>
> -ryan

Hahaha, far from omniscient. Hey I'm not ashamed, Dan Congs are not
my forte and when the vendor sends mislabeled packages how would you
ever know unless you ask? I did email them but Daniel really didn't
have much to offer... so my guess is that they were mislabeled and the
Feng Huang is the peachy one. I'm really hoping so because I'm on my
last and need to order more this weekend. I'm going to go with 50g to
be sure because if it turns out to be the orchidy one I'd be seriously
bummed, then place another order for more once I know which is which
for sure.

I'm sure some of it can seem intimidating but honestly everyone here
is all about helping newcomers to really enjoy tea. Debating esoterica
can be tedious and I'd much rather help someone start their own
adventure. It's just frustrating when people are just trying to push
some agenda or hidden business/scam or when someone takes zero effort
to maybe search common answers out from the archives... but if you've
followed around long enough to be intimidated then chances are your
more than capable and a valuable addition.

So Welcome Ryan, maybe create a new thread and give an introduction or
ask some burning questions... it's been pretty dead around here so
some new life is quite welcome. As soon as I am 100% sure I will post
a followup here about the phantom peachy dan cong oolong.

- Dominic

On Jan 8, 8:51*pm, "Dominic T." > wrote:
> Which is the real
> peachy heavenly oolong I need more of?
>
> - Dominic

OK, now I'm frustrated. After Daniel emailed me back I am totally at a
loss now to determine which is which. His response:

"Hmm.. you can compare the size of the dried tea leaves to make sure.
Feng Huang Dan Cong has larger tea leaves compared to Song Zhong. Song
Zhong's are also darker in color.

Also Feng Huang Dan Cong infusion is golden-yellow while Song Zhong
should brew into reddish brown tea."


Here's the problem. The darker shorter leaved tea *IS* the one that
brews the darker brew and labeled Song Zhong and peachy flavored. The
lighter longer leaf that brews a pale yellow is labeled Feng Huang and
is orchidy/floral.

I wish someone here has tried them to corroborate or set it straight.
At this point my only hope is to order both and just waste the money
on the floral one. On the website it is clearly listed as the
opposite. Now I see why I am so confused, no one seems to know the
difference.

- Dominic

On Jan 11, 2:12*pm, "Dominic T." > wrote:
> On Jan 8, 8:51*pm, "Dominic T." > wrote:
>
> > Which is the real
> > peachy heavenly oolong I need more of?
>
> > - Dominic
>
> OK, now I'm frustrated. After Daniel emailed me back I am totally at a
> loss now to determine which is which. His response:
>
> "Hmm.. you can compare the size of the dried tea leaves to make sure.
> Feng Huang Dan Cong has larger tea leaves compared to Song Zhong. Song
> Zhong's are also darker in color.
>
> Also Feng Huang Dan Cong infusion is golden-yellow while Song Zhong
> should brew into reddish brown tea."
>
> Here's the problem. The darker shorter leaved tea *IS* the one that
> brews the darker brew and labeled Song Zhong and peachy flavored. The
> lighter longer leaf that brews a pale yellow is labeled Feng Huang and
> is orchidy/floral.
>
> I wish someone here has tried them to corroborate or set it straight.
> At this point my only hope is to order both and just waste the money
> on the floral one. On the website it is clearly listed as the
> opposite. Now I see why I am so confused, no one seems to know the
> difference.
>
> - Dominic

I checked and I have two different Feng Huangs, one of them
Mid-90s aged. Both from Hou De. I don't have any Song Zhong
though. I will try the Feng Huangs a little later today and will
post my experience! My problem with both were the
bitter aftertaste, but I think I never tried them with gas-heated
water before. I don't remember if they were peachy or orchid.

On Jan 11, 6:47*pm, Rainy > wrote:
> I checked and I have two different Feng Huangs, one of them
> Mid-90s aged. Both from Hou De. I don't have any Song Zhong
> though. I will try the Feng Huangs a little later today and will
> post my experience! My problem with both were the
> bitter aftertaste, but I think I never tried them with gas-heated
> water before. I don't remember if they were peachy or orchid.

From my recent research due to this mess I have come to find that Feng
Huang doesn't always refer to one tea but a looser definition
sometimes that describes a type of tea or even a few different Dan
Congs. I have a feeling that the Teaspring website is backwards and
that the packages were not mislabeled. I am guessing the Song Zhong is
indeed the peachy, darker, shorter leaf one. I have sent off one more
email to Daniel in hopes of getting it right before ordering, and for
my own sake. If we get it sorted out I'll post it here first... but
I'd still love to know the outcome of your Feng Huang if you get the
chance.

Thanks,
- Dominic

On Jan 11, 8:38*pm, "Dominic T." > wrote:
> On Jan 11, 6:47*pm, Rainy > wrote:
>
> > I checked and I have two different Feng Huangs, one of them
> > Mid-90s aged. Both from Hou De. I don't have any Song Zhong
> > though. I will try the Feng Huangs a little later today and will
> > post my experience! My problem with both were the
> > bitter aftertaste, but I think I never tried them with gas-heated
> > water before. I don't remember if they were peachy or orchid.
>
> From my recent research due to this mess I have come to find that Feng
> Huang doesn't always refer to one tea but a looser definition
> sometimes that describes a type of tea or even a few different Dan
> Congs. I have a feeling that the Teaspring website is backwards and
> that the packages were not mislabeled. I am guessing the Song Zhong is
> indeed the peachy, darker, shorter leaf one. I have sent off one more
> email to Daniel in hopes of getting it right before ordering, and for
> my own sake. If we get it sorted out I'll post it here first... but
> I'd still love to know the outcome of your Feng Huang if you get the
> chance.
>
> Thanks,
> - Dominic

Update: Daniel seems to think the package labeling is correct, but he
seems to think it is my palate and not his site that is wrong. It is
such a strong difference that I think either he has not tried them
himself or his site is just plain wrong and he is trusting it. There
is no mistaking the floral lighter long leaved tea as intense orchid
flavor and the shorter dark leaf fills the room with fresh peaches as
soon as the hot water hits it, unless my palate and sniffer are
somehow completely broken... and the fact that I can name every
ingredient in a cooked dish by taste a total fluke, I'm guessing it is
not me who is confused here. So to any who have been following, the
best I can say is that my original appraisal and labeling was correct.

I am going to take a risk and place an order for the Song Zhong
because I'm almost out. When it comes and I verify it I will put this
to rest once and for all.

- Dominic

On Jan 11, 5:38*pm, "Dominic T." > wrote:
> On Jan 11, 6:47*pm, Rainy > wrote:
>
> > I checked and I have two different Feng Huangs, one of them
> > Mid-90s aged. Both from Hou De. I don't have any Song Zhong
> > though. I will try the Feng Huangs a little later today and will
> > post my experience! My problem with both were the
> > bitter aftertaste, but I think I never tried them with gas-heated
> > water before. I don't remember if they were peachy or orchid.
>
> From my recent research due to this mess I have come to find that Feng
> Huang doesn't always refer to one tea but a looser definition
> sometimes that describes a type of tea or even a few different Dan
> Congs. I have a feeling that the Teaspring website is backwards and
> that the packages were not mislabeled. I am guessing the Song Zhong is
> indeed the peachy, darker, shorter leaf one. I have sent off one more
> email to Daniel in hopes of getting it right before ordering, and for
> my own sake. If we get it sorted out I'll post it here first... but
> I'd still love to know the outcome of your Feng Huang if you get the
> chance.
>
> Thanks,
> - Dominic

I tried the '07 winter one and it's got floral aroma, but in later
steeps it develops a bit of a peachy note, too. It's never
predominant,
though, so I guess that's not what you want. I don't like it too much
because of mouthfeel, it's watery and not smooth like most of my
favorites. But I do like it much better with gas-heated water, just
as I expected. I'll have to try the mid-90s Feng Huang later tonight
and see how I like that one, and I'll post here afterwards.

By the way I'm not even sure I get tea flavours exactly right
because the teas usually described as having plum-like
aroma and taste, seem to me to have raisin-like aroma and
nothing close to plums! Maybe my taste is off-base.

On 2009-01-12, Dominic T. > wrote:
>
> From my recent research due to this mess I have come to find that Feng
> Huang doesn't always refer to one tea but a looser definition
> sometimes that describes a type of tea or even a few different Dan
> Congs.

[Someone jump in and correct me if I get any facts wrong here]

Feng Huang (feng4 huang2;
http://www.nciku.com/search/zh/detai...E5%87%B0/11694) just
means Phoenix; roughly speaking, all of the oolongs commonly generically
referred to as Dancong are Feng Huang Dancongs (technically, I think you
could also use the term to refer to single bush yan cha or other teas,
but I haven't heard it that commonly).

Dancong (dan1 cong2) itself just means something like 'single bush',
and has more to do with the fact that (theoretically) the tea in one
batch should all come from the same strain, or (ideally), the actual
same tea bush. In practice, it's usually used to refer to a particular
grade of oolong tea from Feng Huang Shan (mountain) in Guangdong
province.

you can get a little more info he
http://tea-obsession.blogspot.com/20...nix-tea-2.html

In any event, a Song Zhong Dancong is also going to be Feng Huang (Song
Zhong) Dancong. Song Zhong refers to the Song Dynasty, and should be
from tea bushes that are descendants of one of a few very old tea bushes
that have supposedly been around since then. If any vendor tells you
that they are selling you tea from those actual bushes, they are
probably lying, however, they might be selling you tea that's a
descendant of those bushes and / or from an old growth tea tree.
Typically, this tea will be very expensive.

w

On Jan 11, 10:13*pm, Will Yardley >
wrote:
> On 2009-01-12, Dominic T. > wrote:
>
>
>
> > From my recent research due to this mess I have come to find that Feng
> > Huang doesn't always refer to one tea but a looser definition
> > sometimes that describes a type of tea or even a few different Dan
> > Congs.
>
> [Someone jump in and correct me if I get any facts wrong here]
>
> Feng Huang (feng4 huang2;http://www.nciku.com/search/zh/detai...E5%87%B0/11694) just
> means Phoenix; roughly speaking, all of the oolongs commonly generically
> referred to as Dancong are Feng Huang Dancongs (technically, I think you
> could also use the term to refer to single bush yan cha or other teas,
> but I haven't heard it that commonly).
>
> Dancong (dan1 cong2) *itself just means something like 'single bush',
> and has more to do with the fact that (theoretically) the tea in one
> batch should all come from the same strain, or (ideally), the actual
> same tea bush. In practice, it's usually used to refer to a particular
> grade of oolong tea from Feng Huang Shan (mountain) in Guangdong
> province.
>
> you can get a little more info hehttp://tea-obsession.blogspot.com/20...nix-tea-2.html
>
> In any event, a Song Zhong Dancong is also going to be Feng Huang (Song
> Zhong) Dancong. Song Zhong refers to the Song Dynasty, and should be
> from tea bushes that are descendants of one of a few very old tea bushes
> that have supposedly been around since then. If any vendor tells you
> that they are selling you tea from those actual bushes, they are
> probably lying, however, they might be selling you tea that's a
> descendant of those bushes and / or from an old growth tea tree.
> Typically, this tea will be very expensive.
>
> w

Yes, all correct. That was what I was alluding to when I said that
Feng Huang can be used as more of a category than a particular tea,
just that in this case "Feng Huang" is the actual title of one of the
teas in question from Teaspring.

Great info and links though, thanks you put way more effort in than I
was willing to

- Dominic

On Jan 11, 9:46*pm, Rainy > wrote:
> On Jan 11, 5:38*pm, "Dominic T." > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jan 11, 6:47*pm, Rainy > wrote:
>
> > > I checked and I have two different Feng Huangs, one of them
> > > Mid-90s aged. Both from Hou De. I don't have any Song Zhong
> > > though. I will try the Feng Huangs a little later today and will
> > > post my experience! My problem with both were the
> > > bitter aftertaste, but I think I never tried them with gas-heated
> > > water before. I don't remember if they were peachy or orchid.
>
> > From my recent research due to this mess I have come to find that Feng
> > Huang doesn't always refer to one tea but a looser definition
> > sometimes that describes a type of tea or even a few different Dan
> > Congs. I have a feeling that the Teaspring website is backwards and
> > that the packages were not mislabeled. I am guessing the Song Zhong is
> > indeed the peachy, darker, shorter leaf one. I have sent off one more
> > email to Daniel in hopes of getting it right before ordering, and for
> > my own sake. If we get it sorted out I'll post it here first... but
> > I'd still love to know the outcome of your Feng Huang if you get the
> > chance.
>
> > Thanks,
> > - Dominic
>
> I tried the '07 winter one and it's got floral aroma, but in later
> steeps it develops a bit of a peachy note, too. It's never
> predominant,
> though, so I guess that's not what you want. I don't like it too much
> because of mouthfeel, it's watery and not smooth like most of my
> favorites. But I do like it much better with gas-heated water, just
> as I expected. I'll have to try the mid-90s Feng Huang later tonight
> and see how I like that one, and I'll post here afterwards.
>
> By the way I'm not even sure I get tea flavours exactly right
> because the teas usually described as having plum-like
> aroma and taste, seem to me to have raisin-like aroma and
> nothing close to plums! Maybe my taste is off-base.

Thanks! I can see the peach notes being later in but the Song Zhong is
like someone cut into a fresh ripe peach in the room as soon as water
hits it. It actually is almost an exact duplicate of Snapple peach
iced tea flavor but way more complex and deep.

I'm not sure how to get Daniel to revise his site, he seems pretty set
on what he has but it is certainly mistaken on these two teas. There
is no orchid in the Song Zhong. Either way at least we'll know the
truth I placed a fair sized order for more now that I'm 90% sure it
is the Song Zhong.

As for raisny/plum I'd say those are both the same seeing as how there
is neither actual raisin or plum in the tea you are just going by
analogy for reference. If there was actual plum in it and you describe
raising that's the only way you could be considered "wrong." It is all
subjective to a point, and sometimes it is a focus thing... you notice
and fixate on a few flavors and then miss other ones or someone will
mention a new one and then you begin to notice it.

Ever since I was little I was labeled a picky eater because I would
analyze a dish and be able to tell if someone fudged a recipe or
substituted something. I ate everything but could pick it apart if
something was wrong or different. For instance a restaurant I frequent
I was able to tell the chef used palm sugar one day in a Thai dish and
when I asked they were amazed because she had only substituted it once
ever and it happened to be that day and it is only a subtle component.
As a laugh they asked what else was in it and I listed the recipe
exact even noting white pepper and brand of Thai soy sauce. I've heard
of "supertasters" but haven't researched it... I don't know if I'd
qualify but I'd be close I'd imagine. The problem is slowing myself
down enough to really do it, sometimes I hate it because it can be
overwhelming and a bit distracting. eh, blessing and a curse I guess.

- Dominic

On Jan 11, 8:35*pm, "Dominic T." > wrote:
> On Jan 11, 9:46*pm, Rainy > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jan 11, 5:38*pm, "Dominic T." > wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 11, 6:47*pm, Rainy > wrote:
>
> > > > I checked and I have two different Feng Huangs, one of them
> > > > Mid-90s aged. Both from Hou De. I don't have any Song Zhong
> > > > though. I will try the Feng Huangs a little later today and will
> > > > post my experience! My problem with both were the
> > > > bitter aftertaste, but I think I never tried them with gas-heated
> > > > water before. I don't remember if they were peachy or orchid.
>
> > > From my recent research due to this mess I have come to find that Feng
> > > Huang doesn't always refer to one tea but a looser definition
> > > sometimes that describes a type of tea or even a few different Dan
> > > Congs. I have a feeling that the Teaspring website is backwards and
> > > that the packages were not mislabeled. I am guessing the Song Zhong is
> > > indeed the peachy, darker, shorter leaf one. I have sent off one more
> > > email to Daniel in hopes of getting it right before ordering, and for
> > > my own sake. If we get it sorted out I'll post it here first... but
> > > I'd still love to know the outcome of your Feng Huang if you get the
> > > chance.
>
> > > Thanks,
> > > - Dominic
>
> > I tried the '07 winter one and it's got floral aroma, but in later
> > steeps it develops a bit of a peachy note, too. It's never
> > predominant,
> > though, so I guess that's not what you want. I don't like it too much
> > because of mouthfeel, it's watery and not smooth like most of my
> > favorites. But I do like it much better with gas-heated water, just
> > as I expected. I'll have to try the mid-90s Feng Huang later tonight
> > and see how I like that one, and I'll post here afterwards.
>
> > By the way I'm not even sure I get tea flavours exactly right
> > because the teas usually described as having plum-like
> > aroma and taste, seem to me to have raisin-like aroma and
> > nothing close to plums! Maybe my taste is off-base.
>
> Thanks! I can see the peach notes being later in but the Song Zhong is
> like someone cut into a fresh ripe peach in the room as soon as water
> hits it. It actually is almost an exact duplicate of Snapple peach
> iced tea flavor but way more complex and deep.
>
> I'm not sure how to get Daniel to revise his site, he seems pretty set
> on what he has but it is certainly mistaken on these two teas. There
> is no orchid in the Song Zhong. Either way at least we'll know the
> truth I placed a fair sized order for more now that I'm 90% sure it
> is the Song Zhong.
>
> As for raisny/plum I'd say those are both the same seeing as how there
> is neither actual raisin or plum in the tea you are just going by
> analogy for reference. If there was actual plum in it and you describe
> raising that's the only way you could be considered "wrong." It is all
> subjective to a point, and sometimes it is a focus thing... you notice
> and fixate on a few flavors and then miss other ones or someone will
> mention a new one and then you begin to notice it.
>
> Ever since I was little I was labeled a picky eater because I would
> analyze a dish and be able to tell if someone fudged a recipe or
> substituted something. I ate everything but could pick it apart if
> something was wrong or different. For instance a restaurant I frequent
> I was able to tell the chef used palm sugar one day in a Thai dish and
> when I asked they were amazed because she had only substituted it once
> ever and it happened to be that day and it is only a subtle component.
> As a laugh they asked what else was in it and I listed the recipe
> exact even noting white pepper and brand of Thai soy sauce. I've heard
> of "supertasters" but haven't researched it... I don't know if I'd
> qualify but I'd be close I'd imagine. The problem is slowing myself
> down enough to really do it, sometimes I hate it because it can be
> overwhelming and a bit distracting. eh, blessing and a curse I guess.
>
> - Dominic

Do read the reviews for both of them, some but not all people
describe both as peachy among other flavours. So, it would seem
that if Daniel is wrong on this one, quite a few other people who
tried it are wrong as well! It's interesting that no-one describes
either of them as overwhelmingly peachy. It could be that the
plant that gave the leaves for your particular bag of tea was
located near a peach tree and got more peach flavour than
they normally have. If that's the case, you just need to order
the type listed on the label of the one you liked.

That's the trouble with tea, you never know when you will
get exactly the same flavour you had in one of your
favourite batches, if ever! That's one thing that coffee has
over tea: always reliable, and stands up better to milk.
I roast a couple of batches of coffee once every half a
year, but I probably drink 50 cups of tea for every cup
of coffee..

[dominic]
> I've heard
> of "supertasters" but haven't researched it... I don't know if I'd
> qualify but I'd be close I'd imagine.

[corax]
on supertasters and some other related topics, some folks might be
interested in this entry at CHA DAO:
http://tinyurl.com/2bzpsz

[dominic]
> I've heard
> of "supertasters" but haven't researched it... I don't know if I'd
> qualify but I'd be close I'd imagine.

[corax]
on supertasters and some other related topics, some folks might be
interested in this entry at CHA DAO:
http://tinyurl.com/2bzpsz

On Jan 12, 12:00*am, Rainy > wrote:
> On Jan 11, 8:35*pm, "Dominic T." > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jan 11, 9:46*pm, Rainy > wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 11, 5:38*pm, "Dominic T." > wrote:
>
> > > > On Jan 11, 6:47*pm, Rainy > wrote:
>
> > > > > I checked and I have two different Feng Huangs, one of them
> > > > > Mid-90s aged. Both from Hou De. I don't have any Song Zhong
> > > > > though. I will try the Feng Huangs a little later today and will
> > > > > post my experience! My problem with both were the
> > > > > bitter aftertaste, but I think I never tried them with gas-heated
> > > > > water before. I don't remember if they were peachy or orchid.
>
> > > > From my recent research due to this mess I have come to find that Feng
> > > > Huang doesn't always refer to one tea but a looser definition
> > > > sometimes that describes a type of tea or even a few different Dan
> > > > Congs. I have a feeling that the Teaspring website is backwards and
> > > > that the packages were not mislabeled. I am guessing the Song Zhong is
> > > > indeed the peachy, darker, shorter leaf one. I have sent off one more
> > > > email to Daniel in hopes of getting it right before ordering, and for
> > > > my own sake. If we get it sorted out I'll post it here first... but
> > > > I'd still love to know the outcome of your Feng Huang if you get the
> > > > chance.
>
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > - Dominic
>
> > > I tried the '07 winter one and it's got floral aroma, but in later
> > > steeps it develops a bit of a peachy note, too. It's never
> > > predominant,
> > > though, so I guess that's not what you want. I don't like it too much
> > > because of mouthfeel, it's watery and not smooth like most of my
> > > favorites. But I do like it much better with gas-heated water, just
> > > as I expected. I'll have to try the mid-90s Feng Huang later tonight
> > > and see how I like that one, and I'll post here afterwards.
>
> > > By the way I'm not even sure I get tea flavours exactly right
> > > because the teas usually described as having plum-like
> > > aroma and taste, seem to me to have raisin-like aroma and
> > > nothing close to plums! Maybe my taste is off-base.
>
> > Thanks! I can see the peach notes being later in but the Song Zhong is
> > like someone cut into a fresh ripe peach in the room as soon as water
> > hits it. It actually is almost an exact duplicate of Snapple peach
> > iced tea flavor but way more complex and deep.
>
> > I'm not sure how to get Daniel to revise his site, he seems pretty set
> > on what he has but it is certainly mistaken on these two teas. There
> > is no orchid in the Song Zhong. Either way at least we'll know the
> > truth I placed a fair sized order for more now that I'm 90% sure it
> > is the Song Zhong.
>
> > As for raisny/plum I'd say those are both the same seeing as how there
> > is neither actual raisin or plum in the tea you are just going by
> > analogy for reference. If there was actual plum in it and you describe
> > raising that's the only way you could be considered "wrong." It is all
> > subjective to a point, and sometimes it is a focus thing... you notice
> > and fixate on a few flavors and then miss other ones or someone will
> > mention a new one and then you begin to notice it.
>
> > Ever since I was little I was labeled a picky eater because I would
> > analyze a dish and be able to tell if someone fudged a recipe or
> > substituted something. I ate everything but could pick it apart if
> > something was wrong or different. For instance a restaurant I frequent
> > I was able to tell the chef used palm sugar one day in a Thai dish and
> > when I asked they were amazed because she had only substituted it once
> > ever and it happened to be that day and it is only a subtle component.
> > As a laugh they asked what else was in it and I listed the recipe
> > exact even noting white pepper and brand of Thai soy sauce. I've heard
> > of "supertasters" but haven't researched it... I don't know if I'd
> > qualify but I'd be close I'd imagine. The problem is slowing myself
> > down enough to really do it, sometimes I hate it because it can be
> > overwhelming and a bit distracting. eh, blessing and a curse I guess.
>
> > - Dominic
>
> Do read the reviews for both of them, some but not all people
> describe both as peachy among other flavours. So, it would seem
> that if Daniel is wrong on this one, quite a few other people who
> tried it are wrong as well! It's interesting that no-one describes
> either of them as overwhelmingly peachy. It could be that the
> plant that gave the leaves for your particular bag of tea was
> located near a peach tree and got more peach flavour than
> they normally have. If that's the case, you just need to order
> the type listed on the label of the one you liked.
>
> That's the trouble with tea, you never know when you will
> get exactly the same flavour you had in one of your
> favourite batches, if ever! That's one thing that coffee has
> over tea: always reliable, and stands up better to milk.
> I roast a couple of batches of coffee once every half a
> year, but I probably drink 50 cups of tea for every cup
> of coffee..

Yes, it is possible but the thing is that on the Teaspring website the
Song Zhong page never states even the word peach in the taste
description and clearly states orchid-like. The Feng Huang page again
lists clearly peach and not orchid. I wish I could send each and
everyone here a sample of each to show just how completely opposite
they are. It is possible that there are slight hints of the other
later in the steeps but that would take ignoring the 800-lb. gorilla
in the room of the overwhelming peach or orchid to arrive at the
descriptions on the website. It is so strong and non-subtle that I
often offer the Song Zhong to guests who aren't into tea because it
hits so hard with peach it is like a flavored tea, I'm not sure it is
a fluke... we'll see, I placed an order so when it arrives I'll have
the answer.

- Dominic

Theres no accounting for taste buds. I find teas I dont like more
interesting. Even the teas I do like I occasionally dont. There are
too many variables that affect taste like preparation. I go into a
winery recently prepared to taste wine like I do tea and compare that
to the technique of the server. I didnt get far. Some gal stops in
wanting to know if she could sell her paintings on consignment. I
didnt get to ask one obvious question of how so you use a spittoon
without the idea subtracting from the taste. I know the biggest
weakness in wine tasting, aftertaste. Im in an expensive restaurant
over the holidays which had a wine sommelier. I explained I wanted
something with a light aftertaste and warmed the stomach without a
burning sensation. He didnt have a clue. I got mad and said you pick
something and dont tell me why. He could have picked the very best or
the very worse for all I knew.

Jim

On Jan 12, 1:55 am, corax > wrote:
> [dominic]
>
> > I've heard
> > of "supertasters" but haven't researched it... I don't know if I'd
> > qualify but I'd be close I'd imagine.
>
> [corax]
> on supertasters and some other related topics, some folks might be
> interested in this entry at CHA DAO:http://tinyurl.com/2bzpsz

On Jan 12, 3:55*am, corax > wrote:
> [dominic]
>
> > I've heard
> > of "supertasters" but haven't researched it... I don't know if I'd
> > qualify but I'd be close I'd imagine.
>
> [corax]
> on supertasters and some other related topics, some folks might be
> interested in this entry at CHA DAO:http://tinyurl.com/2bzpsz

Very interesting post, quite in depth. I also have a dislike for the
whole wine-as-alpha-dog perception. Partly for a unique reason I
touched one in my earlier post: for me wine is almost too overwhelming
especially due to the alcohol component. So many claim to have "super-
taster" status in regards to wine but I'd imagine they couldn't so
thoroughly enjoy wine if they were. I actually have trouble with many
forms of alcohol because of this. When you are sensitive to tastes,
alcohol is like a Mac truck and in my opinion. Wine has so many
components that it becomes frustrating and overloaded for me and
strong notes like char/tar/oak on top of the tannins and alcohol and
acidity, etc. then you finally get to the flavors and the grape
itself. I don't doubt that many have good palates but I think a lot of
it is show and hype. A great show called "The F Word" with Gordon
Ramsay on BBC often has noted guests decide between wines some a few
dollars some thousands and quite often rare and prized wines are
turned down in favor of a low end one. One vintner even despised what
turned out to be his very own wine.

I do know I tend to stay away from overly acidic or astringent teas
and perfumy/floral ones also which is what started this whole
conundrum

- Dominic

On Jan 12, 6:02*am, "Dominic T." > wrote:
> On Jan 12, 12:00*am, Rainy > wrote:
>
>
> > Do read the reviews for both of them, some but not all people
> > describe both as peachy among other flavours. So, it would seem
> > that if Daniel is wrong on this one, quite a few other people who
> > tried it are wrong as well! It's interesting that no-one describes
> > either of them as overwhelmingly peachy. It could be that the
> > plant that gave the leaves for your particular bag of tea was
> > located near a peach tree and got more peach flavour than
> > they normally have. If that's the case, you just need to order
> > the type listed on the label of the one you liked.
>
> > That's the trouble with tea, you never know when you will
> > get exactly the same flavour you had in one of your
> > favourite batches, if ever! That's one thing that coffee has
> > over tea: always reliable, and stands up better to milk.
> > I roast a couple of batches of coffee once every half a
> > year, but I probably drink 50 cups of tea for every cup
> > of coffee..
>
> Yes, it is possible but the thing is that on the Teaspring website the
> Song Zhong page never states even the word peach in the taste
> description and clearly states orchid-like. The Feng Huang page again
> lists clearly peach and not orchid. I wish I could send each and
> everyone here a sample of each to show just how completely opposite
> they are. It is possible that there are slight hints of the other
> later in the steeps but that would take ignoring the 800-lb. gorilla
> in the room of the overwhelming peach or orchid to arrive at the
> descriptions on the website. It is so strong and non-subtle that I
> often offer the Song Zhong to guests who aren't into tea because it
> hits so hard with peach it is like a flavored tea, I'm not sure it is
> a fluke... we'll see, I placed an order so when it arrives I'll have
> the answer.
>
> - Dominic

It's going to be interesting how it turns out.. My guess is that
when description on the site and tea reviews were written,
the batch was not as peachy. By the way, one interesting
thing I noted when reading reviews, not only for this tea but
for some other teas I tasted recently, is how little there is
in common across reviews for the same tea. For most
teas, you can take any review and stick it in the reviews
of other tea and it won't seem more out of place than reviews
actually written for that tea.

everyone has different connections and processing of the input from
the tastebuds, whatcha can do
i had that 07 winter feng huang from houde, very nice, "flowery" tho
not "orchidy"
and "fruity" but it didnt trigger any specific fruit... in any case i
liked it alot.

[corax] on supertasters and some other related topics, some folks
might be interested in this entry at CHA DAO: http://tinyurl.com/2bzpsz

[dominic] [...] for me wine is almost too overwhelming especially due
to the alcohol component. [...] I actually have trouble with many
forms of alcohol because of this. [...] I do know I tend to stay away
from overly acidic or astringent teas and perfumy/floral ones also
which is what started this whole conundrum

[corax] well, those are two of steinberger's six characteristics[listed in that essay] of the super-taster; have you experienced any
of the other four as well? i would imagine it's a mixed blessing to be
a super-taster -- kind of like having perfect pitch: you can pick up
all sorts of nuances that ordinary listeners/tasters cannot; but some
of them will not be pleasant to you ...

And I thought the leafs of my Huang Zhi DC were damn long.

Jim

On Jan 9, 8:41 am, "Dominic T." > wrote:
> The orchidy (labeled Feng Huang but believed to be Song Zhong) one
> also has very long leaves, almost the longest I've ever seen and close
> to something like Tai Ping Hou Kui except they are tightly furled
> vertically and long. Many I'd guess 3-4" and one leaf that was around
> 4-5".

On Jan 13, 5:06*am, corax > wrote:
> [corax] well, those are two of steinberger's six characteristics
>[listed in that essay] of the super-taster; have you experienced any
> of the other four as well? i would imagine it's a mixed blessing to be
> a super-taster -- kind of like having perfect pitch: you can pick up
> all sorts of nuances that ordinary listeners/tasters cannot; but some
> of them will not be pleasant to you ...

I was extremely fascinated by your research and info and thought this
could probably be a great discussion so I created a new thread
dedicated to it rather than have it buried here. For those using
Google Groups (http://groups.google.com/group/rec.food.drink.tea/
browse_frm/thread/f154d8047d62cab3?hl=en#) it is titled "Supertaster
Discussion." I would have never looked into it had it not been for
this conversation and the fact that you condensed a lot of dense
information into such a great post as yours on Cha Dao. Great stuff
and I hope it continues in the new thread, I'd particularly like to
her your personal views and thoughts on it.

- Dominic

[dominic]
> I was extremely fascinated by your research and info and thought this
> could probably be a great discussion so I created a new thread
> dedicated to it rather than have it buried here. For those using
> Google Groups (http://groups.google.com/group/rec.food.drink.tea/
> browse_frm/thread/f154d8047d62cab3?hl=en#) it is titled "Supertaster
> Discussion." I would have never looked into it had it not been for
> this conversation and the fact that you condensed a lot of dense
> information into such a great post as yours on Cha Dao. Great stuff
> and I hope it continues in the new thread, I'd particularly like to
> her your personal views and thoughts on it.

[corax] hey thanks! glad you enjoyed the CHA DAO piece. i do have
plenty [more] to say about all this and will see you over on the other
thread.

> Not being an expert, more of a neophyte, on Dan Congs I am a bit
> stumped and I'm sure someone here can help me out. Which is the real
> peachy heavenly oolong I need more of?

The folks of that area actually prefer their dan chong's really strong
and bitter. It's best if you can contact the folks you bought the tea
from and ask them. What ever speculation we could offer really
doesn't have any meaning.