In my other post (http://groups.google.com/group/rec.food.drink.tea/
browse_frm/thread/b019b33c6bd1f8a1/ae6c8795145c24ed?
hl=en#ae6c8795145c24ed) a discussion has begun on "Supertasters" and
Corax has some amazing detail and information on the subject that I
thought it warranted it's own post both for better discussion and to
make it easier to find and archive. It is a topic that has always
intrigued me but that I never put much effort into researching because
it tends to only be brought up in reference to wine experts. The
reason it interests me is that I would guess I could qualify as a
"supertaster." I'm not saying for certain, nor is it any sort of
boasting because it can be as much a negative as a positive in my
experience. Corax had asked about the six characteristics and which
apply so I will start the

[a] have a very low threshold for sweetness,

I despise most desserts and sweets. I have a few weaknesses (Jolly
Ranchers, Sour Patch Kids, Sprees, Fireballs, and a few others) but in
terms of real desserts I will go for a fruit option or a dessert
heavily featuring fruit every time. It is less sugary sweet and much
more flavor than just sugar. Artificial sweetners are right out, they
come through so strong and chemically that I can't even get it down in
any sort of drink or food where it seems others can't even notice it.


[b] tend to salt their food heavily,

Guilty. I love Asian foods and soy sauce always features a prominent
role in most dishes. I love to cook and I think it is because I know
this that I under-salt so that I don't offend others, but I can have a
hard time judging and either result too bland or too salty... I now
tend to just go with what tastes good to me and have stopped trying to
compensate mostly.

[c] 'do not particularly enjoy the flavor of alcohol,'

We covered this in the previous thread. I strongly dislike the flavor
of alcohol and can taste it very intensely. This is why I tend to
distrust the term "supertaster" and have always ignored it because in
my opinion no one who has this ability could possibly stand being a
wine taster. The oaky/smoky/char/tar and the alcohol both combine to
hit so uncomfortably hard that 80% of wines are not enjoyable to me
and to get to the subtle nuances and deeper flavors is like trying to
see through dense fog. My contention is that you would have to *not*
be a supertaster to be a good wine expert. That doesn't mean they do
not have excellent or refined palates.

[d] are especially sensitive to both astringency and acidity,

Bingo. Again we touched on this previously as well but I strongly
avoid astringency in everything and most white teas are completely out
for me from this alone no matter how I try. Take for instance Silver
Needles or even Oriental Beauty, no matter how I try I cannot drink
them due to this... I can smell the astringency of Silver Needles just
from the dry leaf. Again this spills over to my views on wine with
regards to both. I can also tell when a dish is out of balance even a
small amount in regards to acidity and it is like an off-note in a
symphony.

[e] tend not to like spicy or fatty foods, and

Fatty to some degree, like I do not get much joy out of a particular
fatty bit of steak or pork as some do. I do not have trouble with
something rich like a lobster bisque or an amazing dish I had at Le
Pommier recently which was a 1/4 of a chicken over truffle risotto
with a massive slab of lobster butter on top which melted seductively
over it all (easily 6-8oz. of just fat in that dish). Spicy is a
different story but it has to be a particular spicy. I frequently get
my Thai food at a level "50" (10 is the hottest they usually make it
for customers) which is the maximum and it is usually pencil peppers
and chilis. Sichuan dishes are another favorite but that is again that
novicane type hot and not habenaro type hot. Even in extremes I like
it to be balanced and proper not just hot for hot's sake.

[f] 'tend to find all sorts of vegetables overly bitter.'

This one I don't know about. Endive and some greens like kale if not
properly dealt with, yes. I do enjoy a great many though. Sweet
Potatoes are an impossibility for me, I have never successfully even
swallowed some but that is not due to bitterness... that and Durian
fruit. This is the one category I would say is maybe not true for me,
but I can quickly tell if someone was lazy and cooked down a bitter
green in a dish rather than blanching it or cooking it separately and
then adding it.


It is thought that 25% of the population is classified as a
"supertaster" so it is not that rare I guess, in my case I think I
inherited it because both of my parents, while not gourmands, have
amazing palates and are very perceptive to tastes similar to myself. I
love the show Top Chef and the one test I'd love to get on there is
where they set a dish in front of them and they taste it and have to
name the ingredients, as a sort of trick I often list out the entire
make-up of a dish down to frozen or fresh ingredients, brands of
sauces used, technique, etc. On the flip side though even when not
trying I unfortunately do this same analysis and even a four star meal
can be ruined to me by a small issue others would never notice. It
certainly isn't a learned ability either because I have been able to
do this ever since I was very little. The only thing that helps is
that with time and experience you can place a particular taste rather
than it just being favorable or unpleasant and anonymous.

I think the concept is fascinating and frustrating because just like
trying to explain any sense it is very difficult and impossible to
relay to someone who does not sense the same way as you.
Colorblindness, touch sensitivity, hearing, etc. But it plays into
tea, and the experience. When one person can taste a difference in
water, or a particular note in a tea, or even something like if it was
stored in plastic or bamboo it can seem nit-picky or overly dramatic
but I can understand and think it leads to a lot of misunderstanding
and conflict when in reality it is very much the truth to any party
involved as to how they individually perceive it. I think how some
arguments on this group even could probably be attributed to different
human experience and category of taster.

- Dominic

"Dominic T." > writes:

> [...supertaster traits...]
> [f] 'tend to find all sorts of vegetables overly bitter.'
>
> This one I don't know about. Endive and some greens like kale if not
> properly dealt with, yes. I do enjoy a great many though. Sweet
> Potatoes are an impossibility for me, I have never successfully even
> swallowed some but that is not due to bitterness... that and Durian
> fruit. This is the one category I would say is maybe not true for me,
> but I can quickly tell if someone was lazy and cooked down a bitter
> green in a dish rather than blanching it or cooking it separately and
> then adding it.

In terms of being able to love tea, it's lucky for you that you have a
healthy tolerance for bitterness. Even a hypersensitivity to
astringency limits one's range, you might say. I think lots of people
are lost to tea because they can't stand bitterness.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html
recent addition: Da Pa

I avoid corn syrup and refined sugar. I dont use salt and watch
labels closely. I dont like wine or spirits but cant pass up an
occasional black and tan at a pub. You build up an immunity to tea
harshness. The only spice I cant tolerate is ginger. I do enjoy the
marble and gnawing the bone of a $100 steak. I like my veggies
especially the southern greens. I can tell the difference between any
two cups of tea. Just dont ask me to explain it to you. Tea tasting
vernacular is the biggest obstacle to tea tasting, not gastronomy.

Jim

PS I going to my first tea tasting ever. Everbody brings some Puer.
Hopefully it wont get canceled again.

On Jan 13, 8:12 am, "Dominic T." > wrote:
....you are a supertaster when...
> [a] have a very low threshold for sweetness,
> [b] tend to salt their food heavily,
> [c] 'do not particularly enjoy the flavor of alcohol,'
> [d] are especially sensitive to both astringency and acidity,
> [e] tend not to like spicy or fatty foods, and
> [f] 'tend to find all sorts of vegetables overly bitter.'
> - Dominic

On Jan 13, 11:25*am, Lewis Perin > wrote:
> In terms of being able to love tea, it's lucky for you that you have a
> healthy tolerance for bitterness. *Even a hypersensitivity to
> astringency limits one's range, you might say. *I think lots of people
> are lost to tea because they can't stand bitterness.
>
> /Lew
> ---
> Lew Perin /
> recent addition: Da Pa

There's the weird thing, I think it is because I drink teas that
aren't bitter. I like Japanese greens, the more light and nutty
chinese greens, yellow teas, and heavily roasted non-floral oolongs
that aren't bitter or astringent (Shui Xian, new found love Song Zhong
Dan Cong, and a few others). Most of these don't even turn bitter if
oversteeped or improperly prepared. Now, I think unconsciously I have
just always steered myself that way and never even knew it. White tea
is always disappointing to me because of the high amount of
astringency and some others like oriental beauty.

- Dominic

"Dominic T." > writes:

> On Jan 13, 11:25*am, Lewis Perin > wrote:
> > In terms of being able to love tea, it's lucky for you that you have a
> > healthy tolerance for bitterness. *Even a hypersensitivity to
> > astringency limits one's range, you might say. *I think lots of people
> > are lost to tea because they can't stand bitterness.
>
> There's the weird thing, I think it is because I drink teas that
> aren't bitter. I like Japanese greens, the more light and nutty
> chinese greens, yellow teas, and heavily roasted non-floral oolongs
> that aren't bitter or astringent (Shui Xian, new found love Song Zhong
> Dan Cong, and a few others). Most of these don't even turn bitter if
> oversteeped or improperly prepared. Now, I think unconsciously I have
> just always steered myself that way and never even knew it. White tea
> is always disappointing to me because of the high amount of
> astringency and some others like oriental beauty.

Yeah, but you occasionally indulge in kudingcha, if I remember
correctly, right?

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

On Jan 13, 12:22*pm, Lewis Perin > wrote:
> Yeah, but you occasionally indulge in kudingcha, if I remember
> correctly, right?
>
> /Lew
> ---
> Lew Perin /

Heh, yes, but I did swear it to be the foulest substance on Earth
before finally succumbing to it That is my punishment tea.

- Dominic

On Jan 13, 11:48*am, wrote:
> I avoid corn syrup and refined sugar. *I dont use salt and watch
> labels closely. *I dont like wine or spirits but cant pass up an
> occasional black and tan at a pub. *You build up an immunity to tea
> harshness. *The only spice I cant tolerate is ginger. *I do enjoy the
> marble and gnawing the bone of a $100 steak. *I like my veggies
> especially the southern greens. *I can tell the difference between any
> two cups of tea. *Just dont ask me to explain it to you. *Tea tasting
> vernacular is the biggest obstacle to tea tasting, not gastronomy.
>
> Jim
>
> PS *I going to my first tea tasting ever. *Everbody brings some Puer.
> Hopefully it wont get canceled again.

I have a tolerance for a good black and tan too. The strange thing is
that I don't like super hoppy beers but I will drink stouts and
British/Irish Ales and wheat beers which have no bitterness. I'd take
the marrow from that steak bone but you could have the fat/gristle. It
is tough to find the right words sometimes especially with some really
complex teas... I have just given in and don't even try. I'll give the
prominent scents and flavors but the only way to go beyond that is to
experience it. Hopefully your tasting goes well, do you know all of
the participants? I think my trouble is trying to drink tea with
strangers, you get the psuedo-educated types or the show-off braggart
types who want to regale you with the subtle nuance of pronunciation
and (questionable) tales of their last 50 trips with the most revered
tea masters of the world... I never seem to just find a normal person
who just really enjoys tea and has no pretensions or a superiority
complex. Y'know those damn people who claim they have super powers
like tasting

- Dominic

Interesting discussion. I've often wondered whether I'm a supertaster,
mostly because I don't like hot/spicy foods and tend to appreciate the
more subtle flavors in food. But I don't meet most of the criteria you
list. I think I'm very sensitive to bitter flavors, and really have to
push myself to enjoy foods that are even slightly bitter.

I was recently at a community event at which Maya Tea was giving out
samples of some of their teas. I chose an English breakfast style tea
over a vanilla rooibos (can't stand vanilla flavor in tea, but love it
in just about everything else; smells like Play-Dough to me). After
taking a sip I went back and told the guy I thought he had given me
the vanilla rooibos by mistake. He smiled and said that the pitcher
had had some of the vanilla rooibos in it earlier, and that most
people wouldn't have tasted the trace of vanilla that was left. Now,
he might have been blowing smoke, but it got me to wondering whether I
might have a future as a tea taster. Fast-forward to last night, when
I watched a "how it's made" program about the Taylor's of Harrogate
tea taster. Did NOT look like fun to me.

Alan

On Jan 13, 8:13*pm, Alan > wrote:
> Interesting discussion. I've often wondered whether I'm a supertaster,
> mostly because I don't like hot/spicy foods and tend to appreciate the
> more subtle flavors in food. But I don't meet most of the criteria you
> list. I think I'm very sensitive to bitter flavors, and really have to
> push myself to enjoy foods that are even slightly bitter.
>
> I was recently at a community event at which Maya Tea was giving out
> samples of some of their teas. I chose an English breakfast style tea
> over a vanilla rooibos (can't stand vanilla flavor in tea, but love it
> in just about everything else; smells like Play-Dough to me). After
> taking a sip I went back and told the guy I thought he had given me
> the vanilla rooibos by mistake. He smiled and said that the pitcher
> had had some of the vanilla rooibos in it earlier, and that most
> people wouldn't have tasted the trace of vanilla that was left. Now,
> he might have been blowing smoke, but it got me to wondering whether I
> might have a future as a tea taster. Fast-forward to last night, when
> I watched a "how it's made" program about the Taylor's of Harrogate
> tea taster. Did NOT look like fun to me.
>
> Alan

I don't know if anyone fits it all or even if that list is conclusive,
it was from a scientist corax had linked to. I don't really need a
label to know my tastebuds and I'm sure you don't either, it sounds
like you probably fit though too.

Once anything becomes a job it tends to blunt the enjoyment. I worked
for a good while as a video game reviewer when I was younger, I got
every game made before they were in stores, got to talk to many of the
designers and big names, and played tons of games while making decent
money... everyone was always jealous, I just wished I could go back to
playing a game to enjoy it. Instead I had to play everything (Britney
Spears Dance Beat, Madden whatever (I'm not a football fan), Sesame
Street this or that, etc.) not just the awesome blockbusters people
thought of instantly... and then you have to play it to a fault and
then spend hours writing and getting screenshots. Only recently have I
begun to enjoy a game every now and then finally. Now I try to keep
hobbies. hobbies.

- Dominic

[dominic] Corax had asked about the six characteristics and which
apply so I will start the [...]

[corax] so basically 5 out of 6. to the extent that this is a genuine
category [and i gather it is -- i've read that 'super-tasters'
actually have more taste buds per square centimeter than ordinary
tasters; and something similar is noted in the wikipedia article at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_taster -- see footnote 2], it
certainly sounds as though you would qualify for inclusion. you could
probably get a job with general foods tasting! though it might drive
you crazy.

[dominic]
> I think the concept is fascinating and frustrating because just like
> trying to explain any sense it is very difficult and impossible to
> relay to someone who does not sense the same way as you.
> Colorblindness, touch sensitivity, hearing, etc.

[corax] this analogy -- to colorblindness -- is of especial interest
to me, because [if the extra-taste-buds thing is true] there are
objective, anatomical, and presumably measurable/quantifiable factors
in both cases. in other words, the 'condition' [if you want to call it
that] would be observable under bodily examination, in both cases.
that's particularly important because so much of the taste thing is,
as i think you've mentioned already, *subjective* for all of us.
looking back at the CHA DAO piece i see i cited this passage from
steinberger:

Brochet has shown that people given a white wine
that has been dyed red will describe it exactly as
they would a red wine. He has also found that if he
serves the same wine in two different bottles, one
labeled a cheap vin de table and the other a pricey
grand cru, people invariably lavish praise on the latter
and scorn the former ....

i think there's a lot of this [far too much] in the world of tea, too.
someone says: 'that tea stinks ... you need to try THIS tea' -- and if
they have enough clout, others will follow the trend. whether or not
their own palate corroborates it.

this is especially dangerous when the person saying 'this is the good
stuff' is a *vendor*. if s/he has sufficient powers of persuasion, s/
he can create a whole fad around a given tea -- even if it's not
really a great tea.

but then -- what *is* a great tea? is the whole thing subjective? do
we arrive at a consensus when enough trusted colleagues have tasted it
and said, 'this is great'? but then, how is that different from the
lemming effect mentioned above?

part of me wondered whether *this* might be the role for a super-
taster -- to be the reality check on a product [such as tea] and to
verify/certify whether the claims made about it are correct. but then
i thought, 'but what if they end up reporting nuances that non-super-
tasters just can't detect?' -- outside the realm of ordinary human
sense-perception, like a dog whistle or an infra-red light wave.

[dominic] in reality it is very much the truth to any party
> involved as to how they individually perceive it. I think how some
> arguments on this group even could probably be attributed to different
> human experience and category of taster.

[corax] absolutely correct.

it's kind of funny that this should come up just now, as i have been
pecking away at another piece for CHA DAO, about changes in one's
perception of any given tea -- trying to sort out the subjective and
objective factors entailed. hopefully that will be ready to post
before too long.

A bunch of strangers. I hope for the best but expect the worse. I
understand tea tastings to be nothing but a gab fest. If so Ill just
smile. From what I understand the fact that everyone will bring a
sheng tells you what to expect. Yeah Ill bring a sexy sheng they
havent seen before. From then on nothing but shu. Id consider bring
a chunk of my 500g golden bud tuo if I had any left. That was damn
good shu. If there is no subsequent shu interest Ill bail out. I
would love to have a cup of tea with someone sharing the moment where
nothing has to be said.

Jim

On Jan 13, 11:13 am, "Dominic T." > wrote:
> On Jan 13, 11:48 am, wrote:
....party time...
> > PS I going to my first tea tasting ever. Everbody brings some Puer.
> > Hopefully it wont get canceled again.
>
....i luv scotch eggs...
> Hopefully your tasting goes well, do you know all of
> the participants? I think my trouble is trying to drink tea with
> strangers, you get the psuedo-educated types or the show-off braggart
> types who want to regale you with the subtle nuance of pronunciation
> and (questionable) tales of their last 50 trips with the most revered
> tea masters of the world... I never seem to just find a normal person
> who just really enjoys tea and has no pretensions or a superiority
> complex. Y'know those damn people who claim they have super powers
> like tasting
>
> - Dominic

On Jan 14, 5:11*am, corax > wrote:
> [corax] so basically 5 out of 6. to the extent that this is a genuine
> category [and i gather it is -- i've read that 'super-tasters'
> actually have more taste buds per square centimeter than ordinary
> tasters; and something similar is noted in the wikipedia article athttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_taster-- see footnote 2], it
> certainly sounds as though you would qualify for inclusion. you could
> probably get a job with general foods tasting! though it might drive
> you crazy.

I just wish I could land a job as a food sommollier at a place like
The French Laundry, my luck I'd get cat food at Whiskas. I've seen the
tea tasters and I don't think I could do that.

> [corax] this analogy -- to colorblindness -- is of especial interest
> to me, because [if the extra-taste-buds thing is true] there are
> objective, anatomical, and presumably measurable/quantifiable factors
> in both cases. in other words, the 'condition' [if you want to call it
> that] would be observable under bodily examination, in both cases.
> that's particularly important because so much of the taste thing is,
> as i think you've mentioned already, *subjective* for all of us.
> looking back at the CHA DAO piece i see i cited this passage from
> steinberger:
>
> * *Brochet has shown that people given a white wine
> * *that has been dyed red will describe it exactly as
> * *they would a red wine. He has also found that if he
> * *serves the same wine in two different bottles, one
> * *labeled a cheap vin de table and the other a pricey
> * *grand cru, people invariably lavish praise on the latter
> * *and scorn the former ....
>
> i think there's a lot of this [far too much] in the world of tea, too.
> someone says: 'that tea stinks ... you need to try THIS tea' -- and if
> they have enough clout, others will follow the trend. whether or not
> their own palate corroborates it.
>
> this is especially dangerous when the person saying 'this is the good
> stuff' is a *vendor*. if s/he has sufficient powers of persuasion, s/
> he can create a whole fad around a given tea -- even if it's not
> really a great tea.
>
> but then -- what *is* a great tea? is the whole thing subjective? do
> we arrive at a consensus when enough trusted colleagues have tasted it
> and said, 'this is great'? but then, how is that different from the
> lemming effect mentioned above?
>
> part of me wondered whether *this* might be the role for a super-
> taster -- to be the reality check on a product [such as tea] and to
> verify/certify whether the claims made about it are correct. but then
> i thought, 'but what if they end up reporting nuances that non-super-
> tasters just can't detect?' -- outside the realm of ordinary human
> sense-perception, like a dog whistle or an infra-red light wave.

I brought up colorblindness because I often have trouble with some
reds, browns, blues and greens. But I enjoy artwork and paint often...
however just as I subconsciously adapt my teas I tend to stick to
certain palates (of color). So I think the body just adapts to the
either deficiency or extra sensory naturally and pretty seamlessly.

As for the testability I'd love to know if I truly have more TBI
(taste buds per inch, I think I just coined that term and it would
be interesting to find if that is true.

The wine thing I had touched on in my comments about the TV show "The
F Word" with Gordon Ramsay. They do a blind test of skilled or
distinguished guests. The thing is that even though I'm not a big
alcohol fan, I could easily tell a white from a red regardless of
coloring or obfuscation. I can tell a chemically aged wine too. I can
enjoy a few wines but they tend to be a bit sweeter, not oaky, and
properly aged. Montinore Estates Riesling is a favorite, Moscatos, a
couple select Ice Wines, a few reds from a local vinyard Narcissi
Winery, but little else even very expensive or prized wines.

Now, back to tea, I totally agree with you and the power of
suggestion... to a point. For a couple years I thought I had to like
Puerh because it is so widely enjoyed and prized. I tried some of
everything expensive, cooked, uncooked, aged, old bush, magically
kissed by unicorns, etc. and I just could not convince myself no
matter how hard I tried. White and TGY/green oolongs are another. I've
been to a tea shop where a single cup of gyokuro was as much as a fine
meal and at the time I believed it was worth it, but now know
different. I think it comes from two things, suggestion/popular
opinion and price. As much as opinion, when you see a special urn with
an astronomical price and fancy lineage hand picked by virgins during
the summer solstice in extremely rare amounts it does pique the
curiosity and adds to the allure no matter how much you know better
deep down. Exclusivity is a big seller. At this point I still have
quite a few teas to try for the first time and will do so slowly as
the opportunity presents itself but my days of huge orders of a ton of
teas are pretty much over. I'm comfortable with my narrowed selection
(BLC, Dragon pearls, Shui Xian, Song Zhong, and Huo Shan Huang Ya)
with an occasional treat tea slipped in with season or mood (Que She,
Gyokuro, Shincha, Matcha, some black or red tea). To me the most
important aspect in choosing a tea now is true freshness and quality
regardless of popularity or fads.

A great tea? It is purely personal. Sunflower brand jasmine green tea
was a great tea to me for a few years. As for being a judge based on
supertasting, I'd still say no. I find that my ability is most used by
friends and family to pick out a particular flavor in a dish or drink
that has them stumped. I am not big on ever forcing my views or tastes
on anyone, I'll gladly share them to someone interested but also
respect theirs too. To pick out that hint of cinnamon in chili, or a
scallop that was charred too heavily outside and then salvaged by a
chef who thought he could fool someone when amongst sauce, or to try
to name a note in a new tea are all within reach, but to somehow
confirm or deny a tea wouldn't be for me. I'd say which I like and why
but that has no more clout than anyone elses opinion.

As for the outside "normal" sense detection I found this when reading
up on things after our initial conversation: http://www.slate.com/id/2168768

It is written by Mike Steinberger, a wine "expert", who believes he is
a supertaster and goes to have an actual test done to determine his
TBI (or fungiform papillae per square centimeter to be correct) and
finds he is decidedly normal. It does reinforce my initial hypothesis
that wine drinkers and experts are the exact opposite of a supertaster
no matter what they would like to believe. I'd love to have the same
test done to see if it is truly physical or all just a bunch of
garbage and like him I have just either trained myself or have a brain
wired a bit differently that takes the same data as everyone else and
"sees" it a bit differently. The whole PROP thing shows there is
something happening different between people, and that would be the
neat thing to study if I were a scientist. Take a sampling of people,
test them all to their reaction to PROP, and then measure the six or
so traits in each, and finally measure the TBI. My personal guess is
that you would find all of then to exhibit different traits that fell
into non, taster, and super and no real correlation to TBI... which is
why I never personally (until this) put much effort into the
supertaster theory.

> it's kind of funny that this should come up just now, as i have been
> pecking away at another piece for CHA DAO, about changes in one's
> perception of any given tea -- trying to sort out the subjective and
> objective factors entailed. hopefully that will be ready to post
> before too long.

Looking forward to it! These are the kind of unique conversations I'd
love to have in real life that I have no one to converse with and kind
of re-energizes my batteries on this great group of people the
Internet can bring together.

- Dominic

On Jan 14, 6:56*am, wrote:
> A bunch of strangers. *I hope for the best but expect the worse. *I
> understand tea tastings to be nothing but a gab fest. *If so Ill just
> smile. *From what I understand the fact that everyone will bring a
> sheng tells you what to expect. *Yeah Ill bring a sexy sheng they
> havent seen before. *From then on nothing but shu. *Id consider bring
> a chunk of my 500g golden bud tuo if I had any left. *That was damn
> good shu. *If there is no subsequent shu interest Ill bail out. *I
> would love to have a cup of tea with someone sharing the moment where
> nothing has to be said.
>
> Jim

Hey hopefully it is a great time! The Puerh part to it gives me hope
that it will be more 90/10 real to fad ratio. If not my suggestion is
to make up the most outlandish tales as to the origin of your tea and
have a ball. "I got this sheng by wresting a dragon in a cave deep in
Yunnan where they have been dry aging for thousands of years, I killed
him with my Puerh knife and drank the first cup steeped in it's tears
which I found to be too hard of water for a proper cup so I spat it
out."

I could not agree any more strongly with your view on silence. I don't
mind some chit chat, get to know everyone, in between discuss what was
had and thoughts, but right before, during, and right after nothing
really needs said. I think we'd have a good tasting... now if I could
just get a taste for Puerh Scotch eggs, and I'm there!

- Dominic

I need more in my vocabulary besides camphor and qi. Ill have to zip
it up when everyone starts talking about aging. I wrote wistfully
about my long gone golden buds. It struck me mid afternoon yesterday
I always ordered a kilo of everything. I went through my China Post
boxes and found the other 500g. Thats the last of my golden buds so
it wont be that shu I briing the next time. I just might. I cant
think of any more fun than taking apart a hard rock tuo and destroying
everybodys knives.

Jim

On Jan 14, 8:43 am, "Dominic T." > wrote:
> On Jan 14, 6:56 am, wrote:
....puer pajama party...

> Hey hopefully it is a great time! The Puerh part to it gives me hope
> that it will be more 90/10 real to fad ratio. If not my suggestion is
> to make up the most outlandish tales as to the origin of your tea and
> have a ball. "I got this sheng by wresting a dragon in a cave deep in
> Yunnan where they have been dry aging for thousands of years, I killed
> him with my Puerh knife and drank the first cup steeped in it's tears
> which I found to be too hard of water for a proper cup so I spat it
> out."
>
> I could not agree any more strongly with your view on silence. I don't
> mind some chit chat, get to know everyone, in between discuss what was
> had and thoughts, but right before, during, and right after nothing
> really needs said. I think we'd have a good tasting... now if I could
> just get a taste for Puerh Scotch eggs, and I'm there!
>
> - Dominic

[dominic] I just wish I could land a job as a food sommollier at a
place like The French Laundry, my luck I'd get cat food at Whiskas.

[corax] LOL. 'there's just a soupçon too much herbes de provence in
this catfood'

[dominic] To me the most important aspect in choosing a tea now is
true freshness and quality regardless of popularity or fads.

[corax] and that last phrase -- 'regardless of popularity or fads' --
is so important, and so difficult for many people. not just in the
realm of tea, obviously. it seems a common human trait to come to
want, desire, crave things *because other people like them* -- not
[necessarily] because of anything inherently excellent in the thing.
though of course those aren't mutually exclusive possibilities.

the flipside of the fad problem is what a former colleague of mine,
jim surowiecki
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Surowiecki ], has called 'the
wisdom of crowds' --
http://www.randomhouse.com/features/wisdomofcrowds/
-- not crowd/mob psychology, but 'diverse collections of independently-
deciding individuals' [a phrase used also in the wikipedia page at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wisdom_of_Crowds ] -- where the word
'diverse' is key.

[dominic] A great tea? It is purely personal.

[corax] ahhh, if each of us could truly internalize that thought, the
tea world -- the world in general -- would be a better place. but
that's a tough one. the power of peer pressure, and the force of
advertising rhetoric, make it very hard for most folks to see clearly
what even they themselves [seem to] want.

[corax]
> > it's kind of funny that this should come up just now, as i have been
> > pecking away at another piece for CHA DAO, about changes in one's
> > perception of any given tea -- trying to sort out the subjective and
> > objective factors entailed. hopefully that will be ready to post
> > before too long.

[dominic]
> Looking forward to it! These are the kind of unique conversations I'd
> love to have in real life that I have no one to converse with and kind
> of re-energizes my batteries on this great group of people the
> Internet can bring together.

[corax] agreed. whatever did we do before the internet? [i'm chuckling
inwardly because a couple generations ago they were saying, 'whatever
did we do before there were telephones?' -- and in 20 years they'll be
saying, 'whatever did we do before teleporters?' or some such ...] but
cyberspace is a special case, even in the lonnng history of human
innovations, because of the very point you're making he without it,
so many human relationships would just never happen. never *be able*
to happen.

so anyway, i'll give you the heads-up when this next piece is ready,
and will look forward to your input on that one as well ...