Bai Hao means white downy tips, which was present in very large
quantities in Bai Hao Oolong Tea thus its name.

Most oolong teas are made from the second leaf, or the third, seldom
the first unlike this Bai Hao Tea.

Formosan Oolong is known as Bai Hao Oolong at the same time known as
Dong Fang Mei Ren (oriental beauty). Just depends on where you are
from the tea's called differently. Taiwan was known as formosa back
then, and that was how the tea was called formosan oolong.

I'm getting close. I know the Chinese characters for BaiHao and for
sake of argument means WhiteDown. My source says Taiwan Champagne aka
oriental beauty is BaiHai which means for sake of argument WhiteTip
ignoring for the moment others saying
BaiHao,SilverNeedles,WhiteDown,WhiteTip,oolong oriental beauty are the
same. I assumed Hao and Hai would derive from the same Chinese root
character (only a guess). Hao is a reverse J with a couple of -
though the middle stalk of the character. Damn if I don't go surfing
and find a Hai Chinese character similar to Hao (just a couple of more
- but different angles adjacent to the stalk). I'm led down the
primerose path to a Taiwan site in Chinese with 'oriental beauty'
buried in Chinese characters. I don't have the font set to tell me if
it's using the characters for BaiHao or BaiHai or maybe neither.
Close but no cigar. Google will use UTF-8 links so you just load the
corresponding UTF-8 languages you want to see but any particular
webpage may use it own language font sets. I gaggle at how Google
translates from particular language character sets to UTF-8 for it's
links. One font set for all languages eventually. I learned that
here from the gal in Japan who thought I couldn't immerse myself in
Japanese culture by simply strolling the streets of an established pre
WWII community located adjacent to downtown. All I can say only the
street addresses for the mailman are in english.

Jim

(ws) wrote in message om>...
> Bai Hao means white downy tips, which was present in very large
> quantities in Bai Hao Oolong Tea thus its name.
>
> Most oolong teas are made from the second leaf, or the third, seldom
> the first unlike this Bai Hao Tea.
>
> Formosan Oolong is known as Bai Hao Oolong at the same time known as
> Dong Fang Mei Ren (oriental beauty). Just depends on where you are
> from the tea's called differently. Taiwan was known as formosa back
> then, and that was how the tea was called formosan oolong.

> BaiHao,SilverNeedles,WhiteDown,WhiteTip,oolong oriental beauty are the
> same.
Not silver needle: yinzhen

I assumed Hao and Hai would derive from the same Chinese root
> character (only a guess). Hao is a reverse J with a couple of -
> though the middle stalk of the character.
I can't imagine what a Baihai would be, if not a mistake for Baihao

"Space Cowboy" > wrote in message

As you can read UTF 8 unicode, I have written the Chinese characters. I hope
that's OK to do that on this group.
I give you the Mandarin Chinese pronunciation when I find it (I don't speak
Chinese, only read some). Keep in mind most Taiwanese speak another dialect
than Mandarin.

> I'm getting close. I know the Chinese characters for BaiHao and for
> sake of argument means WhiteDown.

....

>My source says Taiwan Champagne aka
> oriental beauty is BaiHai
....
> others saying
> BaiHao,SilverNeedles,WhiteDown,WhiteTip,oolong oriental beauty are the
> same.

You introduced the confusion. You've said "silver needles" (白毫銀� bai hao
yin zhen).

>I assumed Hao and Hai would derive from the same Chinese root
> character (only a guess). Hao is a reverse J with a couple of -
> though the middle stalk of the character.

That's mao in Mandarin, not hao

白毛　"white hair" bai mao
白毫 "white tip" bai hao
白葉 "white leaf" bai ye

�湾白毫��茶 Taiwan bai hao wu long cha (Formosa White Tip Oolong)
=(formerly)�方美人 dong fand mei ren (oriental beauty) 　

90% of the time, googles find those 2 associated in Japanese and Chinese
webpages. That's what I read on packages usually. Other writings are rarer.

I have found a few pages with 白毛��茶, some for "Taiwanese Oriental
Beauty", others for a cheaper one from mainland China.

I write it 白葉��茶 (bai ye oolong cha) for shopping in Taipei and Japan,
because the character for "tip" is not a common character in Japanese, and
leaf is pronounced "ha"in Japanese... A Taiwanese shop keepers that speak
Japanese told me to do that, and I have noticed it was done in several shops
in Japan. Logical spelling mistake. It is innaccurate, but as it is the only
whitish Taiwan oolong, no confusion is possible with "oolonged white tea".

"Oriental beauty" has another name 香檳��茶 (chiang * wu long), fragrant *
oolong. It is rarely used.

> I learned that
> here from the gal in Japan who thought I couldn't immerse myself in
> Japanese culture by simply strolling the streets of an established pre
> WWII community located adjacent to downtown. All I can say only the
> street addresses for the mailman are in english.

There were street addresses and mailmen that could speak English in Japan
before WWII ? Now, both species are complety extinct.

Kuri

/23/04

>
> "Space Cowboy" > wrote in message
>
> As you can read UTF 8 unicode, I have written the Chinese characters. I hope
> that's OK to do that on this group.
> I give you the Mandarin Chinese pronunciation when I find it (I don't speak
> Chinese, only read some). Keep in mind most Taiwanese speak another dialect
> than Mandarin.
>
>> I'm getting close. I know the Chinese characters for BaiHao and for
>> sake of argument means WhiteDown.
>
> ...
>
>> My source says Taiwan Champagne aka
>> oriental beauty is BaiHai
> ...
>> others saying
>> BaiHao,SilverNeedles,WhiteDown,WhiteTip,oolong oriental beauty are the
>> same.
>
> You introduced the confusion. You've said "silver needles" (???? bai hao
> yin zhen).
>
>> I assumed Hao and Hai would derive from the same Chinese root
>> character (only a guess). Hao is a reverse J with a couple of -
>> though the middle stalk of the character.
>
> That's mao in Mandarin, not hao
>
> ???"white hair" bai mao
> ?? "white tip" bai hao
> ?? "white leaf" bai ye
>
> ??????? Taiwan bai hao wu long cha (Formosa White Tip Oolong)
> =(formerly)???? dong fand mei ren (oriental beauty) ?
>
> 90% of the time, googles find those 2 associated in Japanese and Chinese
> webpages. That's what I read on packages usually. Other writings are rarer.
>
> I have found a few pages with ?????, some for "Taiwanese Oriental
> Beauty", others for a cheaper one from mainland China.
>
> I write it ????? (bai ye oolong cha) for shopping in Taipei and Japan,
> because the character for "tip" is not a common character in Japanese, and
> leaf is pronounced "ha"in Japanese... A Taiwanese shop keepers that speak
> Japanese told me to do that, and I have noticed it was done in several shops
> in Japan. Logical spelling mistake. It is innaccurate, but as it is the only
> whitish Taiwan oolong, no confusion is possible with "oolonged white tea".
>
> "Oriental beauty" has another name ????? (chiang * wu long), fragrant *
> oolong. It is rarely used.
>
>> I learned that
>> here from the gal in Japan who thought I couldn't immerse myself in
>> Japanese culture by simply strolling the streets of an established pre
>> WWII community located adjacent to downtown. All I can say only the
>> street addresses for the mailman are in english.
>
> There were street addresses and mailmen that could speak English in Japan
> before WWII ? Now, both species are complety extinct.
>
> Kuri
>

Kuri,

I'm getting question marks. How do I get myself set up to turn them into
Chinese characters? (I'm on a Mac.)

Michael

"Michael Plant" > wrote in message

> I'm getting question marks. How do I get myself set up to turn them into
> Chinese characters? (I'm on a Mac.)

With Windows , the first time I tried to view Chinese characters, it
indicated me the link to download Chinese fonts. I think it works the same
way with Mac.
Try to select UTF 8 as encoding (your message and this one are in the "West
European" encoding, probably the default setting on your computer). You
should see the Chinese or get a message about downloading the fonts. If not,
you'll have to do it from the control panel and add the Chinese as a
language option.

Kuri

I woke up this morning expecting to do battle and came across a post
discussing tea. All I can say to Kuri is thanks very much. This is a
rosetta stone post resolving the use of BaiHao and a Chinese character
is a thousand words. When I first saw the post with Google all I saw
were boxes for unknown characters. You have to use View: Original
Format for UTF-8. Only the second character from the left for Taiwan
bai hao wu long cha didn't seem to translate (box). I'm not going to
quibble but All the Tea in China by Chow and Kramer use the characters
for "white hair" to describe Yinzhen Bai Hao. I'll use the marketing
name Silver Needles and Oriental Beauty so not to confuse myself. My
Japan reference is in my metro area you can immerse yourself in
Russian, Chinese, Vietnamese, Arabic, Spanish languages without
leaving the US. Any travel required is just an exercise in geography.
In fact we have the only University outside of Japan where all
subjects are in Japanese. The students come here to immerse
themselves in our culture and language.

Thanks again,
Jim

"cc" > wrote in message >...
> "Space Cowboy" > wrote in message
>
> As you can read UTF 8 unicode, I have written the Chinese characters. I hope
> that's OK to do that on this group.
> I give you the Mandarin Chinese pronunciation when I find it (I don't speak
> Chinese, only read some). Keep in mind most Taiwanese speak another dialect
> than Mandarin.
>
> > I'm getting close. I know the Chinese characters for BaiHao and for
> > sake of argument means WhiteDown.
>
> ...
>
> >My source says Taiwan Champagne aka
> > oriental beauty is BaiHai
> ...
> > others saying
> > BaiHao,SilverNeedles,WhiteDown,WhiteTip,oolong oriental beauty are the
> > same.
>
> You introduced the confusion. You've said "silver needles" (白毫銀� bai hao
> yin zhen).
>
> >I assumed Hao and Hai would derive from the same Chinese root
> > character (only a guess). Hao is a reverse J with a couple of -
> > though the middle stalk of the character.
>
> That's mao in Mandarin, not hao
>
> 白毛　"white hair" bai mao
> 白毫 "white tip" bai hao
> 白葉 "white leaf" bai ye
>
> �湾白毫��茶 Taiwan bai hao wu long cha (Formosa White Tip Oolong)
> =(formerly)�方美人 dong fand mei ren (oriental beauty) 　
>
> 90% of the time, googles find those 2 associated in Japanese and Chinese
> webpages. That's what I read on packages usually. Other writings are rarer.
>
> I have found a few pages with 白毛��茶, some for "Taiwanese Oriental
> Beauty", others for a cheaper one from mainland China.
>
> I write it 白葉��茶 (bai ye oolong cha) for shopping in Taipei and Japan,
> because the character for "tip" is not a common character in Japanese, and
> leaf is pronounced "ha"in Japanese... A Taiwanese shop keepers that speak
> Japanese told me to do that, and I have noticed it was done in several shops
> in Japan. Logical spelling mistake. It is innaccurate, but as it is the only
> whitish Taiwan oolong, no confusion is possible with "oolonged white tea".
>
> "Oriental beauty" has another name 香檳��茶 (chiang * wu long), fragrant *
> oolong. It is rarely used.
>
> > I learned that
> > here from the gal in Japan who thought I couldn't immerse myself in
> > Japanese culture by simply strolling the streets of an established pre
> > WWII community located adjacent to downtown. All I can say only the
> > street addresses for the mailman are in english.
>
> There were street addresses and mailmen that could speak English in Japan
> before WWII ? Now, both species are complety extinct.
>
> Kuri

I agree, set the encoding of your browser to UTF-8, in google View:
Original Thread. However install UTF-8 font sets and NOT language
packs such as Chinese Big5(Traditional) or GB2312(Simplified). On
Windows the humongous Asian UTF8 fontset for Chinese, Japanese, and
Korean is called BATANG. It was on the install disk but I found WHAT
to install by combing the MS Usenet threads for languages. Try the
encoding and google view first. By default you should see Cyrillic
and Arabic characters as part of the default install for IE on Windows
so Mac may vary. On Windows there is a CHARSET utility to
specifically identify what is installed. You won't get any prompts
using IE, GOOGLE, and UTF-8. You have to prepare for it or nothing
but boxes and ?. All profs to Kuri because I knew everyone wants to
see these characters.

Jim

"cc" > wrote in message >...
> "Michael Plant" > wrote in message
>
> > I'm getting question marks. How do I get myself set up to turn them into
> > Chinese characters? (I'm on a Mac.)
>
> With Windows , the first time I tried to view Chinese characters, it
> indicated me the link to download Chinese fonts. I think it works the same
> way with Mac.
> Try to select UTF 8 as encoding (your message and this one are in the "West
> European" encoding, probably the default setting on your computer). You
> should see the Chinese or get a message about downloading the fonts. If not,
> you'll have to do it from the control panel and add the Chinese as a
> language option.
>
> Kuri

"Space Cowboy" > wrote in message

>Only the second character from the left for Taiwan
> bai hao wu long cha didn't seem to translate (box).

The wan of Taiwan ? 湾　I have inputed it from the Japanese.
Reading is much easier than inputing (that requires having an IME and
knowing the pronunciation), for the characters not existing in Japanese,
I cannot do it,all I can do now is try to find them on Chinese pages and
paste them.

That's too bad because in a book, I have a list of over 300 Chinese teas,
listed by area, and their names in characters and pin yin (+ other data,
like "nicknames"...). I use it for shopping.
I'd like to copy it on a web page, that way anybody could paste the
characters of their prefered tea to browse about it or find it more easily
in Asian stores. I have not found any complete equivalent on google. When I
have more energy, I'll get a Chinese IME or I'll gather all the names I can
paste on different pages to recreate the list.

>I'm not going to
> quibble but All the Tea in China by Chow and Kramer use the characters
> for "white hair" to describe Yinzhen Bai Hao.

It is not surprising, it is used in descriptive comments about Oriental
Beauty too, but more rarely in the name to avoid confusions. If they give
"hao" as reading of "white hair", I suppose that's a typo (or an
over-simplification of the character ?).

> I'll use the marketing
> name Silver Needles and Oriental Beauty so not to confuse myself.

I'd prefer if teas were systematically named like wines (name + descriptive
name +
place of production + year), at least on the labels.

>My
> Japan reference is in my metro area you can immerse yourself in
> Russian, Chinese, Vietnamese, Arabic, Spanish languages without
> leaving the US.

Maybe that's also a travel in the time, the most interesting one. Today's
Japan is incredibly Westernized (or the West is Japanized ?). Everyday life
in Osaka is not so different from life in a small French town. You have to
make an effort too to immerse yourself in typical things. But what I find
great is
that even if 99% of the people wear suits and jeans 364 days a year, there
is still
1% that spend one day in kimono to maintain traditions like the tea ceremony
as it existed
maybe 1000 year ago. In Europe, we've kept the old buildings and antiques,
but they
are "dead".

Kuri

Are these the characters for Taiwan �� I tried your suggestion to cut
and paste from the Chinese.

Thanks,
Jim

"cc" > wrote in message >...
> "Space Cowboy" > wrote in message
>
> >Only the second character from the left for Taiwan
> >didn't seem to translate (box).
>
> The wan of Taiwan ? 湾　I have inputed it from the Japanese.
> Reading is much easier than inputing (that requires having an IME and
> knowing the pronunciation), for the characters not existing in Japanese,
> I cannot do it,all I can do now is try to find them on Chinese pages and
> paste them.
....
> Kuri

"Space Cowboy" > wrote in message

>I have an old can of silver needles from the government
> export arm of China with plenty of inscription. The only characters I
> can make out is White Tea nothing about Yinzhen or Hao or anything I
> can recognize.

Maybe it's in simplified or older characters. Or your tin box is decorated
with poems or texts unrelated with the content (the sort of tea written only
on a seal/sticker label).
My list is in one writting style, a shorter list of most common teas in a
second one...that's just a start.

>You can copy and paste one character at a time from
> the UTF8 fonts set without an IME.

Try it some day with Chinese.

> Yesterday I was going to add 'Kuri the man' but I saw a post about
> your small wrist

That'd be "the woman", but there are men with small wrists.

Kuri

"Space Cowboy" > wrote in message

> Are these the characters for Taiwan ��

Yes, but.... You've found a "complicated" form of that character, I had
written a "simplified" form. It ressembles.
It happens the Japanese, Mainland Chinese, Hong-Kong people and Taiwanese
use different versions of one character, and that makes more than 4 in total
as older writings can be used to give a traditional tone. Sometimes, they
don't even consider it different and perceive it as a change of font style,
more cursive writing...

I have no idea why you can't view the other "wan".

Kuri

When I look at UTF8 posts in Korean, Chinese, Japanese I get about 10%
in missing characters. What do you expect for free from MS? However
not too shabby considering the three languages in the singular BATANG
font set. I looked up Taiwan in Google and used the wan character
that seemed most often following your character for Tai. I can
understand why you say it is complicated. Most Chinese I can scribble
from looking but this wan I couldn't even trace if I had too.

Jim

"cc" > wrote in message >...
> "Space Cowboy" > wrote in message
>
> > Are these the characters for Taiwan ��
>
> Yes, but.... You've found a "complicated" form of that character, I had
> written a "simplified" form. It ressembles.
> It happens the Japanese, Mainland Chinese, Hong-Kong people and Taiwanese
> use different versions of one character, and that makes more than 4 in total
> as older writings can be used to give a traditional tone. Sometimes, they
> don't even consider it different and perceive it as a change of font style,
> more cursive writing...
>
> I have no idea why you can't view the other "wan".
>
> Kuri

Neat. So you're traipsing all over Asia with your cheat sheet
hounding poor merchants. If we ever cross paths maybe we can compare
notes. I like the chase and my mailman isn't madd at me constantly
signing for deliveries. In our culture we say 'limp wrists' till we
find someone who is an ex NFL lineman then we say 'Mr.'. Steroids can
do that too you. Is Japan still laughing at Tom Cruise in The Last
Samurai. As I said before I'm a big fan of Zatoichi from the sixties.
The morality tales are straight out of the old west. I've got the
entire series on VHS and will by first DVD transfer when I get rich.

Jim

"cc" > wrote in message >...
> > Yesterday I was going to add 'Kuri the man' but I saw a post about
> > your small wrist
>
> That'd be "the woman", but there are men with small wrists.
>
> Kuri

"Livio Zanini" > wrote in message >. ..
> > BaiHao,SilverNeedles,WhiteDown,WhiteTip,oolong oriental beauty are the
> > same.
> Not silver needle: yinzhen
>
> I assumed Hao and Hai would derive from the same Chinese root
> > character (only a guess). Hao is a reverse J with a couple of -
> > though the middle stalk of the character.
> I can't imagine what a Baihai would be, if not a mistake for Baihao


Yeah,

Bai Hao just means, white downy(fine), its just a description.

Bai Hao Yin Zhen, means White Downy Silver Needles, a Fujian Tea. the
buds typically come from small tea shrubs akin to Shui Xian bushes.

Bai Hao Oolong, is an oolong tea which has Bai Hao in it, white downy
leaves, and this is a taiwanese tea. when taiwan was called formosa,
this tea was often referred to as Formosan Oolong by the british, who
liked it for the peachy floral complex overtones. People from mainland
china would call this tea, the beauty of the orient, or rather
oriental beauty, and thus Dong Fang Mei Ren.

I have yet to come across a tea called Bai Hai, the most i've seen is
Fo Hai, in Fo Hai Silver Needles. Might be a typing mistake? or a
pronounciation mistake?

In article >, "cc" > wrote:
>
>"Michael Plant" > wrote in message
>
>> I'm getting question marks. How do I get myself set up to turn them into
>> Chinese characters? (I'm on a Mac.)
>
[snip] >way with Mac.
>Try to select UTF 8 as encoding (your message and this one are in the "West
>European" encoding, probably the default setting on your computer). You
>should see the Chinese or get a message about downloading the fonts. If not,
>you'll have to do it from the control panel and add the Chinese as a

if you're using Mac OS X, you can install System Preferences. just select
all foreign languages that you want to install. very nice Chinese fonts
& other foreign fonts too. (nicer than on Windows)

For viewing, it should be able to decide what to. so you should not have to
set the encoding scheme. I only have to set the coding for sending out emails.

regards,

regards,

You can lead a horse to water ... For all the other cowboys in the
group using Google and UTF8 fonts you can reply to any post that used
the UTF8 charset with your own UTF8 characters. However any
originating post in Google uses the WESTERN ISO default charset. I
spent days in alt.test trying to originate a post in UTF8 but no
giddyup. Goshdarn my baby bell who sells me dsl with no newsgroup
server and for the past month has been averaging a downtime of one day
a week. Oh they got the excuses just like yesterday. Tech support
for dsl will always guarantee you'll need a hands free speaker phone
for the insufferable messages about waiting for the next available
operator.

Jim

(Space Cowboy) wrote in message . com>...
> Are these the characters for Taiwan �� I tried your suggestion to cut
> and paste from the Chinese.
>
> Thanks,
> Jim

While intrepidly exploring rec.food.drink.tea, Space Cowboy rolled
initiative and posted the following:

> Goshdarn my baby bell who sells me dsl with no newsgroup
> server and for the past month has been averaging a downtime of one
> day a week.

Then use the free server at www.individual.net - text only, no HTML, no
binaries.

--
Derek

When people are free to do as they please, they usually imitate each
other.

"Space Cowboy" > wrote in message

> However any
> originating post in Google uses the WESTERN ISO default charset. I
> spent days in alt.test trying to originate a post in UTF8 but no
> giddyup.

Stop trying, even if that worked once, that wouldn't the next time.
A number of people posting on newsgroups using Asian and UTF formats say
the following free news server is reliable :

http://news.cis.dfn.de/

I didn't try it as I don't have illimited connection.

Kuri

While intrepidly exploring rec.food.drink.tea, cc rolled initiative
and posted the following:

>
> "Space Cowboy" > wrote in message
>
>> However any
>> originating post in Google uses the WESTERN ISO default charset.
>> I spent days in alt.test trying to originate a post in UTF8 but
>> no giddyup.
>
> Stop trying, even if that worked once, that wouldn't the next
> time. A number of people posting on newsgroups using Asian and
> UTF formats say the following free news server is reliable :
>
> http://news.cis.dfn.de/

Which is no longer available for international users. They've set up
news.individual.net for international use.

--
Derek

You know you're a nerd when you have to go and steal the herpes
virus from a research laboratory rather than going out and catching
it in the wild like everyone else.

So I'm the last to learn that you can't originate UTF8 Google posts.
I'm not too much into free because you get what you pay for. I'll put
up with the Google sponsoring links. Or I can keep a UTF8 post going
forever with an before the Google grace period to respond to a
post. Better yet maybe I can ask some kind soul like Kuri to create a
UTF8 post for me to The biggest problem with Google is the jetlag
for posts but there is a forced cooling off period. I know I sign up
for something free and the small print says so long as no complaints
then I'm booted because someone says I spamming about commercial
improprieties and they want to kill the messenger. Sticking around
for the occasional Kuri like post is worth the grief even if you miss
my posts and any correspondence because your killfile eradicates
anything about the discussion of tea. I appreciate the other posts
about the use of Bai Hao without the Chinese characters because they
expanded the use as a tradename. A local dealer likes 'oriental
beauty' better than 'formosa champagne'. So now I can expect to see
his teas with Black Dragon and Oriental Beauty which is more sexy than
Fujian or Formosa. Geography maps don't sell teas. This local dealer
who has been making a go of it for two years and just recently added
Sunday hours is making me feel more guilty because now I occassionally
think twice by not driving across town to ethnic stores for the teas
he stocks. I can see the sequel now: The Passion of the Tea Drinker
complete with temptations and agony of the leaves.

Jim

Derek > wrote in message >...
> While intrepidly exploring rec.food.drink.tea, cc rolled initiative
> and posted the following:
>
> >
> > "Space Cowboy" > wrote in message
> >
> >> However any
> >> originating post in Google uses the WESTERN ISO default charset.
> >> I spent days in alt.test trying to originate a post in UTF8 but
> >> no giddyup.
> >
> > Stop trying, even if that worked once, that wouldn't the next
> > time. A number of people posting on newsgroups using Asian and
> > UTF formats say the following free news server is reliable :
> >
> > http://news.cis.dfn.de/
>
> Which is no longer available for international users. They've set up
> news.individual.net for international use.

While intrepidly exploring rec.food.drink.tea, Space Cowboy rolled
initiative and posted the following:

> I'm not too much into free because you get what you pay
> for.

A sentiment I share. However, I have found the news.individual.net
servers to be reliable and speedy.

> I'll put up with the Google sponsoring links.

I'll pass.

> Or I can
> keep a UTF8 post going forever with an before the Google
> grace period to respond to a post. Better yet maybe I can ask
> some kind soul like Kuri to create a UTF8 post for me to

Sounds like too much work.

> The biggest problem with Google is the jetlag for posts but
> there is a forced cooling off period.

My posts show up almost immediately on the news.individual.net
server and propogate quickly.

> I know I sign up for
> something free and the small print says so long as no complaints
> then I'm booted because someone says I spamming about commercial
> improprieties and they want to kill the messenger.

Does the word "paranoia" have any meaning for you?

Of course, if you just want to dismiss the idea out-of-hand without
checking the facts or speaking with those who use it, that's your
choice.


--
Derek

It's best to avoid standing directly between a competitive jerk and
his goals.

I appreciate the suggestion, really. As I said other than the rapid
turnaround and UFT8 posts limitations there is no problem with Google.
I complain about the missing newgroups server because it is like
selling a car without wheels. Until the recent posts I thought a free
newsgroup server was an urban legend. I'm very big on using Usenet
and people leaving their opinions to be digested by future prosterity.
I'll use the Google backdoor to the group and let somebody else use
the server bandwidth who needs it more than me. I know what you're
saying and I'm not dissing you for any reason at all, in this post
sofar anyway ;-).

Jim

Derek > wrote in message >...
> Of course, if you just want to dismiss the idea out-of-hand without
> checking the facts or speaking with those who use it, that's your
> choice.

While intrepidly exploring rec.food.drink.tea, Space Cowboy rolled
initiative and posted the following:

> I appreciate the suggestion, really. As I said other than the
> rapid turnaround and UFT8 posts limitations there is no problem
> with Google.

You're welcome. You might consider giving it a shot just to see what it's like, even
if you never post. After all, it's free.

(Why am I feeling like a pusher trying to hook his next customer?)

> I complain about the missing newgroups server because it is
> like selling a car without wheels.

I would, too. I get my DSL through deal with the university, so all of my mail
servers are still my student account, but my DSL access is through someone else -
with no server access. This was why I went to the free German server - I wanted my
usenet groups.

> Until the recent posts I thought
> a free newsgroup server was an urban legend.

Sometimes the legends are real!

> I'm very big on
> using Usenet and people leaving their opinions to be digested by
> future prosterity.

So what's your opinion on X-No-Archive?

> I'll use the Google backdoor to the group and let somebody else
> use the server bandwidth who needs it more than me.

OOOOOH! Generosity and consideration for others! I thought those were outlawed in
Usenetland.

> I know what
> you're saying and I'm not dissing you for any reason at all, in
> this post sofar anyway ;-).

Yeah, I was suprprised by that myself.

--
Derek

There comes a time when every team must learn to make individual sacrifices.