My latest project is a Puerh specific "Translation Sheet" that will
list the Pinyin name, the Chinese characters, and an English
definition, with photos where appropriate for most major types of
puerh. This will take a few weeks but it will be worth it. Those of
you near Asian communities can take this sheet with you when you go
treasure hunting. The "work in progress" which may contain errors, can
be found at http://www.pu-erh.net/rosetta.html. If you see an obvious
error please email me.


Mike Petro
http://www.pu-erh.net
remove the "filter" in my email address to reply

[posted and mailed]

While intrepidly exploring rec.food.drink.tea, Mike Petro rolled
initiative and posted the following:

> My latest project is a Puerh specific "Translation Sheet" that
> will list the Pinyin name, the Chinese characters, and an
> English definition, with photos where appropriate for most major
> types of puerh. This will take a few weeks but it will be worth
> it. Those of you near Asian communities can take this sheet with
> you when you go treasure hunting. The "work in progress" which
> may contain errors, can be found at
> http://www.pu-erh.net/rosetta.html. If you see an obvious error
> please email me.

Funny that the page is "rosetta.html." My local merchant has
Pu-erh Rosettes, which are similar to tuocha but look like a flower
instead of a nest.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?A244526B7

or

http://www.la-societe-du-the.com/cgi...t_Co de=T-180

--
Derek

Every dark cloud has a silver lining, but lighting kills hundreds of people each year who are trying to find it.

Awesome!!
Thanks so much!
Great job.

--Tom
-oo-
""\o~
------------------------------------
"Homo sum, humani nil a me alienum puto."
Terrance

Mike Petro > writes:

> My latest project is a Puerh specific "Translation Sheet" that will
> list the Pinyin name, the Chinese characters, and an English
> definition, with photos where appropriate for most major types of
> puerh. This will take a few weeks but it will be worth it. Those of
> you near Asian communities can take this sheet with you when you go
> treasure hunting. The "work in progress" which may contain errors, can
> be found at http://www.pu-erh.net/rosetta.html. If you see an obvious
> error please email me.

It's a great project!

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

The term rosetta was first used by me several months ago to identify
the process I used to translate between Chinese and English tea terms.
Please remove any inferences from your pathetic plagiarising website
using any of my copyright ideas expressed in this group.

Jim

Mike Petro > wrote in message >. ..
> My latest project is a Puerh specific "Translation Sheet" that will
> list the Pinyin name, the Chinese characters, and an English
> definition, with photos where appropriate for most major types of
> puerh. This will take a few weeks but it will be worth it. Those of
> you near Asian communities can take this sheet with you when you go
> treasure hunting. The "work in progress" which may contain errors, can
> be found at http://www.pu-erh.net/rosetta.html. If you see an obvious
> error please email me.

Space 3/15/04


> The term rosetta was first used by me several months ago to identify
> the process I used to translate between Chinese and English tea terms.
> Please remove any inferences from your pathetic plagiarising website
> using any of my copyright ideas expressed in this group.
>
> Jim
>
> Mike Petro > wrote in message
> >. ..
>> My latest project is a Puerh specific "Translation Sheet" that will
>> list the Pinyin name, the Chinese characters, and an English
>> definition, with photos where appropriate for most major types of
>> puerh. This will take a few weeks but it will be worth it. Those of
>> you near Asian communities can take this sheet with you when you go
>> treasure hunting. The "work in progress" which may contain errors, can
>> be found at http://www.pu-erh.net/rosetta.html. If you see an obvious
>> error please email me.


Mike, with all due respect to Space Cowboy, the Rosetta Stone is an ancient
basalt tablet discovered in the latter part of the eighteenth century. It's
Greek and Egyptian inscriptions carried studies of language in the region
forward considerably. The term is in the public domaine. Feel free to use
and abuse it. BTW, your site's coming along great.

Not that anyone really didn't know this already. Just wanted to go on
record.

Michael

While intrepidly exploring rec.food.drink.tea, Space Cowboy rolled
initiative and posted the following:

> The term rosetta was first used by me several months ago to
> identify the process I used to translate between Chinese and
> English tea terms. Please remove any inferences from your
> pathetic plagiarising website using any of my copyright ideas
> expressed in this group.

You aspire to be a troll, don't you?

--
Derek

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent, but you'd
be a fool to withhold that from your superiors.

> the Rosetta Stone is an ancient
> basalt tablet discovered in the latter part of the eighteenth century.

Having spent a lot of time across the pond, I've seen this rock quite a few
times. It's a truly magical object, inspiring awe, respect, and an
almost-irresistable desire to touch it.

It's also about the right size to make a small tabletop. Given its solidity
and slightly rough (from the inscriptions) surface, it would make a perfect
platform on which to break up puerh cakes.

-DM

>
> Mike, with all due respect to Space Cowboy, the Rosetta Stone is an ancient
> basalt tablet discovered in the latter part of the eighteenth century.
I m afraid that 's not basalt, although it seems so, but it's black
granit....
I m not trying to resurect a Troll, am I?

vincent wrote:
>
>>
>> Mike, with all due respect to Space Cowboy, the Rosetta Stone is an
>> ancient
>> basalt tablet discovered in the latter part of the eighteenth century.
>
> I m afraid that 's not basalt, although it seems so, but it's black
> granit....
> I m not trying to resurect a Troll, am I?

It's not even black granite. It's rose and light grey colored.
Restoration work recently undertaken has proven that the black is from
the reverse rubbings they did to get the original impressions right
after it was found.

(you spread lamp-black over the surface, put down a piece of paper and
rub with a smooth stone. What you get looks (is, really, by definition)
like carbon paper....)

It's apparently very pretty but now it's harder to see the indentations.

--Leigh

Derek > wrote in message >...
> While intrepidly exploring rec.food.drink.tea, Space Cowboy rolled
> initiative and posted the following:
>
> > The term rosetta was first used by me several months ago to
>
> You aspire to be a troll, don't you?

I guess you support plagiarism. I understand that from a generation
who imprinted on commercials starting in the nursery going through
life freely associating on sound bites too form a personality whose
idea of originality is nothing more than a dejavu experience.

Jim

On 16 Mar 2004 06:27:19 -0800, Space Cowboy > wrote:
> I guess you support plagiarism. I understand that from a generation
> who imprinted on commercials starting in the nursery going through
> life freely associating on sound bites too form a personality whose
> idea of originality is nothing more than a dejavu experience.

So using the word "rosetta" for multilingual translation keys is your
original idea? I guess you support plagiarism. I understand that
coming form someone who thinks free associating stream of
consciousness rants constitutes originality.


N.

While intrepidly exploring rec.food.drink.tea, Space Cowboy rolled
initiative and posted the following:

> Derek > wrote in message
> >...
>> While intrepidly exploring rec.food.drink.tea, Space Cowboy
>> rolled initiative and posted the following:
>>
>> > The term rosetta was first used by me several months ago to
>>
>> You aspire to be a troll, don't you?
>
> I guess you support plagiarism. I understand that from a
> generation who imprinted on commercials starting in the nursery
> going through life freely associating on sound bites too form a
> personality whose idea of originality is nothing more than a
> dejavu experience.

No, I don't support plagiarism. And that includes yours.

You didn't coin the phrase "rosetta stone." You weren't the first
person to use it to refer to a "translation tool" or a "guide to
understanding." It's in both Webster's and OED, and OED's
earliest citation is from the 1902 edition of the Encyclopedia
Britannica. You're not even the first person I've seen use it in
reference to figuring out the names of teas from the packaging.

The only thing you get credit for is being the first person to
post to this newsgroup (July 2003) using that phrase.

But then, your use of an Ad Hominem makes your arguement logically
invalid anway.

--
Derek

If you want to get to the top, prepare to kiss a lot of the bottom.

/16/04


[regarding Jim's copyright claim to the phrase "rosetta page"....]
>
> No, I don't support plagiarism. And that includes yours.
>
> You didn't coin the phrase "rosetta stone." You weren't the first
> person to use it to refer to a "translation tool" or a "guide to
> understanding." It's in both Webster's and OED, and OED's
> earliest citation is from the 1902 edition of the Encyclopedia
> Britannica. You're not even the first person I've seen use it in
> reference to figuring out the names of teas from the packaging.
>
> The only thing you get credit for is being the first person to
> post to this newsgroup (July 2003) using that phrase.
>
> But then, your use of an Ad Hominem makes your arguement logically
> invalid anway.

Ad hominem arguments are our favorites; without them, we'd be reduced to
silence...although in silence we could drink more tea; we could move from
drivel to dribble, as it were. BTW, when you use a Webster's, look for the
word Merriam along side. "Merriam" is copyrighted and represents quality;
Webster's is not, and represents nothing.

Basalt? Granite? Pink something else? At least we agree it's not very
gneiss.

Come to think of it, disregard this entire post. It's completely off topic;
a veritable teabag of a topic.

(Space Cowboy) wrote in
om:

> The term rosetta was first used by me several months ago to identify
> the process I used to translate between Chinese and English tea terms.
> Please remove any inferences from your pathetic plagiarising website
> using any of my copyright ideas expressed in this group.

Are you, perchance, d/b/a The SCO Group?

No, that's not quite fair--unless it turns out you're angling for a
licensing fee.

--
fD

Microsoft is not paying my legal bills.

Jim

fLameDogg > wrote in message >...
> (Space Cowboy) wrote in
> om:
>
> > The term rosetta was first used by me several months ago to identify
> > the process I used to translate between Chinese and English tea terms.
> > Please remove any inferences from your pathetic plagiarising website
> > using any of my copyright ideas expressed in this group.
>
> Are you, perchance, d/b/a The SCO Group?
>
> No, that's not quite fair--unless it turns out you're angling for a
> licensing fee.

Oh I can talk all day long about a particular website's plagiarism and
copyright violation which is certainly Ad Nauseum but not Ad Hominem.
I'll let you substitute who you think is the webmaster and even if you
came up with Bin Laden it still isn't an Ad Hominem argument (Hitler
is bad even after rebuilding the German economy in the thirties where
the Jews prospered more than the Germans). So try something different
than a troll attack which is by definition Ad Hominem. The Rosetta
Stone is an historical artifact. I can distort the meaning anyway I
want which means protection under the CopyRight Act Doctrine of
Qualification meaning "not the same as". I used it first to
specifically mean translation of Chinese English tea terms and any
similar use by anybody else is a copyright violation. Don't pull a
John Kerry on me if you know someone who used rosetta in a similar
way.

Jim

Derek > wrote in message >...
> While intrepidly exploring rec.food.drink.tea, Space Cowboy rolled
> initiative and posted the following:
>
> > Derek > wrote in message
> > >...
> >> While intrepidly exploring rec.food.drink.tea, Space Cowboy
> >> rolled initiative and posted the following:
> >>
> >> > The term rosetta was first used by me several months ago to
> >>
> >> You aspire to be a troll, don't you?
> >
> > I guess you support plagiarism. I understand that from a
> > generation who imprinted on commercials starting in the nursery
> > going through life freely associating on sound bites too form a
> > personality whose idea of originality is nothing more than a
> > dejavu experience.
>
> No, I don't support plagiarism. And that includes yours.
>
> You didn't coin the phrase "rosetta stone." You weren't the first
> person to use it to refer to a "translation tool" or a "guide to
> understanding." It's in both Webster's and OED, and OED's
> earliest citation is from the 1902 edition of the Encyclopedia
> Britannica. You're not even the first person I've seen use it in
> reference to figuring out the names of teas from the packaging.
>
> The only thing you get credit for is being the first person to
> post to this newsgroup (July 2003) using that phrase.
>
> But then, your use of an Ad Hominem makes your arguement logically
> invalid anway.

<snip> whine

Please supply proof of copyright under international law, validated in
all countries recognizing copyright. Even then this is usenet, a global
service with a global community and your stinking copyright laws do not
apply. As part of due diligence you will have to prove that the term has
been in acceptable use within a limited sphere of your influence and
that you will suffer loss from the use elsewhere, but you have little
hope.

JJ

At least someone acknowledges my creative juices where ranting is part
of my style and chances are you'll learn a thing or two about tea
while being entertained. You might use rosetta as a synonym for the
idea of multilingual translation but in this case is copyright for the
specific intentional use to mean the translation of Chinese English
tea terms. If you want to use rosetta to mean the same thing you'll
need my permission. I was first and anybody else is second which is
the minimum test for copyright infrigement.

Jim

(Natarajan Krishnaswami) wrote in message >...
> On 16 Mar 2004 06:27:19 -0800, Space Cowboy > wrote:
> > I guess you support plagiarism. I understand that from a generation
> > who imprinted on commercials starting in the nursery going through
> > life freely associating on sound bites too form a personality whose
> > idea of originality is nothing more than a dejavu experience.
>
> So using the word "rosetta" for multilingual translation keys is your
> original idea? I guess you support plagiarism. I understand that
> coming form someone who thinks free associating stream of
> consciousness rants constitutes originality.
>
>
> N.

While intrepidly exploring rec.food.drink.tea, Space Cowboy rolled
initiative and posted the following:

> Oh I can talk all day long about a particular website's
> plagiarism and copyright violation which is certainly Ad Nauseum
> but not Ad Hominem. I'll let you substitute who you think is the
> webmaster and even if you came up with Bin Laden it still isn't
> an Ad Hominem argument (Hitler is bad even after rebuilding the
> German economy in the thirties where the Jews prospered more
> than the Germans). So try something different than a troll
> attack which is by definition Ad Hominem. The Rosetta Stone is
> an historical artifact. I can distort the meaning anyway I want
> which means protection under the CopyRight Act Doctrine of
> Qualification meaning "not the same as". I used it first to
> specifically mean translation of Chinese English tea terms and
> any similar use by anybody else is a copyright violation. Don't
> pull a John Kerry on me if you know someone who used rosetta in
> a similar way.

The Ad Hominem was contained in your accusation that I support
plagiarism based upon the generation in which I was born. That was
simply an attempt to discredit me based on a characteristic over
which I have no control. That is, by definition, Ad Hominem.

As for the troll accusation being Ad Hominem, you've got it
backwards. I don't discount your claims because I think you're a
troll. I think you're a troll because of the outrageous, poorly
reasoned, confrontational demands you make in this group.

As for the pitiful "John Kerry" accusation, it was Tony Ruggiero,
the owner of my local tea shop, La Societe du The. He showed me
what he called his "rosetta sheet" for tea names that he used to
translate between Chinese, English and French. The year was 1998
and we were building his first web site.

Again, the only thing you get credit for is being the first to
post it in this group. The idea is neither unique nor original.
And, as such, you don't hold the copyright...

.... no matter how frequently or loudly you insist that you do.

--
Derek

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Space Cowboy wrote:
> ...You might use rosetta as a synonym for the
> idea of multilingual translation but in this case is copyright for the
> specific intentional use to mean the translation of Chinese English
> tea terms. If you want to use rosetta to mean the same thing you'll
> need my permission. I was first and anybody else is second which is
> the minimum test for copyright infrigement.


Actually, the issue here is not the test but the copyright. Under US and
most foreign law (by reciprocal treaty), copyright applies to specific
representation, lexical or graphical. Concepts may not be so protected.
Titles are also not subject to copyright, as is evidenced by the frequent
re-use of catchy phrases from prior works in the titles of new books,
movies, poems, etc.

What one could do, for $335, is register a "word-only" US service mark for a
specific commercial use of a name or phrase for a specific service offering
under one of the standard USPTO categories. Translation services are covered
therein. Prior use in the same field does not necessarily bar issuance of
the service mark, but may make enforcement difficult if others have
maintained a more-or-less continuous practice of the same service under the
same name.

YMMV.

-DM
(Not a lawyer, but have done a lot of intellectual-property casework and
hold several copyrights and service marks)

While intrepidly exploring rec.food.drink.tea, Space Cowboy rolled
initiative and posted the following:

> At least someone acknowledges my creative juices where ranting
> is part of my style and chances are you'll learn a thing or two
> about tea while being entertained. You might use rosetta as a
> synonym for the idea of multilingual translation but in this
> case is copyright for the specific intentional use to mean the
> translation of Chinese English tea terms. If you want to use
> rosetta to mean the same thing you'll need my permission. I was
> first and anybody else is second which is the minimum test for
> copyright infrigement.

Except that "The Rosetta Stone Language Library" has been around
since at least 1996 and is available for Chinese (Mandarin). Care to
lay a wager as to whether or not it contains any tea terms?

You can't copyright part of somebody else's dictionary.

--
Derek

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

While intrepidly exploring rec.food.drink.tea, Dog Ma 1 rolled
initiative and posted the following:

> Space Cowboy wrote:
>> ...You might use rosetta as a synonym for the
>> idea of multilingual translation but in this case is copyright
>> for the specific intentional use to mean the translation of
>> Chinese English tea terms. If you want to use rosetta to mean
>> the same thing you'll need my permission. I was first and
>> anybody else is second which is the minimum test for copyright
>> infrigement.
>
>
> Actually, the issue here is not the test but the copyright.
> Under US and most foreign law (by reciprocal treaty), copyright
> applies to specific representation, lexical or graphical.
> Concepts may not be so protected. Titles are also not subject to
> copyright, as is evidenced by the frequent re-use of catchy
> phrases from prior works in the titles of new books, movies,
> poems, etc.
>
> What one could do, for $335, is register a "word-only" US
> service mark for a specific commercial use of a name or phrase
> for a specific service offering under one of the standard USPTO
> categories. Translation services are covered therein. Prior use
> in the same field does not necessarily bar issuance of the
> service mark, but may make enforcement difficult if others have
> maintained a more-or-less continuous practice of the same
> service under the same name.

It'd be interesting to see if he has any success registering a public domain
term for a public domain behavior with the justification "But I'm applying it
specifically to types of tea."

--
Derek

If you find yourself struggling with loneliness, you're not alone.
And yet you are alone.
So very alone.

If you feel that someone has violated your copyright, go hire a lawyer.

If you would like to continuing being an asshole on some subject other than
tea, please ad "OT" to your reference line so my anti-spam filters can do their
job and keep your stupid, inane chatter out of my in box.

>Subject: The Puerh Rosetta Page
>From: (Space Cowboy)
>Date: 3/17/2004 9:32 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>Oh I can talk all day long about a particular website's plagiarism and
>copyright violation which is certainly Ad Nauseum but not Ad Hominem.
>I'll let you substitute who you think is the webmaster and even if you
>came up with Bin Laden it still isn't an Ad Hominem argument (Hitler
>is bad even after rebuilding the German economy in the thirties where
>the Jews prospered more than the Germans). So try something different
>than a troll attack which is by definition Ad Hominem. The Rosetta
>Stone is an historical artifact. I can distort the meaning anyway I
>want which means protection under the CopyRight Act Doctrine of
>Qualification meaning "not the same as". I used it first to
>specifically mean translation of Chinese English tea terms and any
>similar use by anybody else is a copyright violation. Don't pull a
>John Kerry on me if you know someone who used rosetta in a similar
>way.
>
>Jim
>


--Tom
-oo-
""\o~
------------------------------------
"Homo sum, humani nil a me alienum puto."
Terrance

It is my modest opinion that this newsgroup should be more concerned in tea
related questions than void personal quarrels. I personally find Mike's site
very good. If somebody thinks to be able to do something better, then do it.
We'll all be gratefull.

Mike, just let me suggest you to make a consistent use of one single system
for translitteration. If you decide to use Pinyin, let me point some small
errors:
- cheung wei pu shao tuo cha (??....) should be: qiangwei pu xiao tuocha
- Rectangular bricks is Zhuancha
- Regarding to ball shaped tea, I think you can opt for the more common form
??



"Mike Petro" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> My latest project is a Puerh specific "Translation Sheet" that will
> list the Pinyin name, the Chinese characters, and an English
> definition, with photos where appropriate for most major types of
> puerh. This will take a few weeks but it will be worth it. Those of
> you near Asian communities can take this sheet with you when you go
> treasure hunting. The "work in progress" which may contain errors, can
> be found at http://www.pu-erh.net/rosetta.html. If you see an obvious
> error please email me.
>
>
> Mike Petro
> http://www.pu-erh.net
> remove the "filter" in my email address to reply
>

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:20:04 GMT, "Livio Zanini" >
cast caution to the wind and posted:

>It is my modest opinion that this newsgroup should be more concerned in tea
>related questions than void personal quarrels. I personally find Mike's site
>very good. If somebody thinks to be able to do something better, then do it.
>We'll all be gratefull.
>
>Mike, just let me suggest you to make a consistent use of one single system
>for translitteration. If you decide to use Pinyin, let me point some small
>errors:
>- cheung wei pu shao tuo cha (??....) should be: qiangwei pu xiao tuocha
>- Rectangular bricks is Zhuancha
>- Regarding to ball shaped tea, I think you can opt for the more common form
>??

Thank You Livio, and also all others who have supported my efforts.
Yes please, by all means correct any errors you may find. I am quite
the novice at translation and can use all the constructive help I can
get. I also welcome email exchanges if you want to avoid the truculent
posts. Of particular help would be any Chinese sites that offer puerh,
this way I can dissect the language in actual use.


Mike Petro
http://www.pu-erh.net
remove the "filter" in my email address to reply

"fLameDogg" > wrote in message
. ..
> (Space Cowboy) wrote in
> om:
>
> > The term rosetta was first used by me several months ago to identify
> > the process I used to translate between Chinese and English tea terms.
> > Please remove any inferences from your pathetic plagiarising website
> > using any of my copyright ideas expressed in this group.
>
> Are you, perchance, d/b/a The SCO Group?
>
> No, that's not quite fair--unless it turns out you're angling for a
> licensing fee.
>
> --
> fD

The term 'Rosetta' was not invented by SC, not unless he was in Egypt with
Napoleon's armies. If he wasn't- and I suspect he was not, despite behavior
that is reminiscent of senility- he was not one of those who translated the
Rosetta Stone. The idea of translating one language into another while
providing a symbol key is not copyrightable- that's public domain, and has
been done for languages as diverse as ancient Egyptian and Mayan. The only
thing that could be copyrighted would be the actual translation and
definition text, and the title of the page. Nobody can keep anyone from
using the concept of making a translation.

Dog Ma 1 (reply w/o spam)> wrote:
>> the Rosetta Stone is an ancient
>> basalt tablet discovered in the latter part of the eighteenth century.
>
>Having spent a lot of time across the pond, I've seen this rock quite a few
>times. It's a truly magical object, inspiring awe, respect, and an
>almost-irresistable desire to touch it.
>
>It's also about the right size to make a small tabletop. Given its solidity
>and slightly rough (from the inscriptions) surface, it would make a perfect
>platform on which to break up puerh cakes.

Who knew Internationalization Code had a practical use?

--Blair
"Ah so."

Hey webmaster you got that message board up and running yet to capture
the comments of your website visitors? I didn't think so. You still
got that detour sign pointing to this ng. Why don't you turn it in
the direction of some less sophisicated group and tout your misnamed
pu·rée aged oolong as a replacement for Viagra. Just hope nobody goes
to Chinatown looking for the real thing.

Jim

Mike Petro > wrote in message >. ..
> Thank You Livio, and also all others who have supported my efforts.
> Yes please, by all means correct any errors you may find. I am quite
> the novice at translation and can use all the constructive help I can
> get. I also welcome email exchanges if you want to avoid the truculent
> posts. Of particular help would be any Chinese sites that offer puerh,
> this way I can dissect the language in actual use.

There's nothing new here that's been said about copyright that isn't
covered in 3.5 million posts on the subject according to Google.
However if you ever come up with an original idea and someone pilfers
it you can start your own thread about copyright protection.

Jim

Jeremy > wrote in message >...
> <snip> whine
>
> Please supply proof of copyright under international law, validated in
> all countries recognizing copyright. Even then this is usenet, a global
> service with a global community and your stinking copyright laws do not
> apply. As part of due diligence you will have to prove that the term has
> been in acceptable use within a limited sphere of your influence and
> that you will suffer loss from the use elsewhere, but you have little
> hope.
>
> JJ

Others claim to have superduper heuristic newsgroup readers that can
sniff out my faintess echos and killfile me.

Jim

rown (Tom) wrote in message >...
> If you feel that someone has violated your copyright, go hire a lawyer.
>
> If you would like to continuing being an asshole on some subject other than
> tea, please ad "OT" to your reference line so my anti-spam filters can do their
> job and keep your stupid, inane chatter out of my in box.

While intrepidly exploring rec.food.drink.tea, Space Cowboy rolled
initiative and posted the following:

> There's nothing new here that's been said about copyright that
> isn't covered in 3.5 million posts on the subject according to
> Google. However if you ever come up with an original idea and
> someone pilfers it you can start your own thread about copyright
> protection.

Of course, that requires first coming up with an original idea,
not merely being the first to post it to the small population that
reads this newsgroup.


--
Derek

The only consistent feature of all of your dissatisfying
relationships is you.

An Ad Hominem accusation cannot apply to institutions or in this case
a generational reference only a person. The common accepted use of
troll is someone looking for an argument for any reason. I'm just
protecting my intellectual property illegally usurped by a website.
Private coversations cannot be copyright unless published. Even if
you published something in 98 I first posted about my cheatsheet of
Chinese and English tea terms here in
95. Copyright law has the Doctrine of Antecedent where I could have a
ruling to apply my rosetta characterization in 2004 to all my previous
posts about the subject starting in 95. The John Kerry reference has
already morphed into the colloquial "I'm not at liberty to say who"
similar to wardrobe malfunction "for any unplanned contingency".

Jim

Derek > wrote in message >...
> While intrepidly exploring rec.food.drink.tea, Space Cowboy rolled
> initiative and posted the following:
>
> > Oh I can talk all day long about a particular website's
> > plagiarism and copyright violation which is certainly Ad Nauseum
> > but not Ad Hominem. I'll let you substitute who you think is the
> > webmaster and even if you came up with Bin Laden it still isn't
> > an Ad Hominem argument (Hitler is bad even after rebuilding the
> > German economy in the thirties where the Jews prospered more
> > than the Germans). So try something different than a troll
> > attack which is by definition Ad Hominem. The Rosetta Stone is
> > an historical artifact. I can distort the meaning anyway I want
> > which means protection under the CopyRight Act Doctrine of
> > Qualification meaning "not the same as". I used it first to
> > specifically mean translation of Chinese English tea terms and
> > any similar use by anybody else is a copyright violation. Don't
> > pull a John Kerry on me if you know someone who used rosetta in
> > a similar way.
>
> The Ad Hominem was contained in your accusation that I support
> plagiarism based upon the generation in which I was born. That was
> simply an attempt to discredit me based on a characteristic over
> which I have no control. That is, by definition, Ad Hominem.
>
> As for the troll accusation being Ad Hominem, you've got it
> backwards. I don't discount your claims because I think you're a
> troll. I think you're a troll because of the outrageous, poorly
> reasoned, confrontational demands you make in this group.
>
> As for the pitiful "John Kerry" accusation, it was Tony Ruggiero,
> the owner of my local tea shop, La Societe du The. He showed me
> what he called his "rosetta sheet" for tea names that he used to
> translate between Chinese, English and French. The year was 1998
> and we were building his first web site.
>
> Again, the only thing you get credit for is being the first to
> post it in this group. The idea is neither unique nor original.
> And, as such, you don't hold the copyright...
>
> ... no matter how frequently or loudly you insist that you do.

Quips, quotes, catch phrases can be copyright in titles. The judge
through out the Fox complaint about the Franklin title use of "Fair
and Balanced" because it met the copyright test "common use". Titles
become part of the public domain after they exceed copyright
protection. The Potter franchise has sucessfully sued several people
using their titles in knockoff publications.

Jim

"Dog Ma 1" (reply w/o spam)> wrote in message >...
> Space Cowboy wrote:
> > ...You might use rosetta as a synonym for the
> > idea of multilingual translation but in this case is copyright for the
> > specific intentional use to mean the translation of Chinese English
> > tea terms. If you want to use rosetta to mean the same thing you'll
> > need my permission. I was first and anybody else is second which is
> > the minimum test for copyright infrigement.
>
>
> Actually, the issue here is not the test but the copyright. Under US and
> most foreign law (by reciprocal treaty), copyright applies to specific
> representation, lexical or graphical. Concepts may not be so protected.
> Titles are also not subject to copyright, as is evidenced by the frequent
> re-use of catchy phrases from prior works in the titles of new books,
> movies, poems, etc.
>
> What one could do, for $335, is register a "word-only" US service mark for a
> specific commercial use of a name or phrase for a specific service offering
> under one of the standard USPTO categories. Translation services are covered
> therein. Prior use in the same field does not necessarily bar issuance of
> the service mark, but may make enforcement difficult if others have
> maintained a more-or-less continuous practice of the same service under the
> same name.
>
> YMMV.
>
> -DM
> (Not a lawyer, but have done a lot of intellectual-property casework and
> hold several copyrights and service marks)

Everybody is scrambling to protect their use of wardrobe malfunction in advertising.

Jim

Derek > wrote in message >...
> It'd be interesting to see if he has any success registering a public domain
> term for a public domain behavior with the justification "But I'm applying it
> specifically to types of tea."

See my other post about the first reference to a chinese english
teaterms cheatsheet in 95 and copyright laws allowing retroactive use
of new terms. Looks like I need to talk to a cha-ching copyright
chaser.

Jim

Derek > wrote in message >...
> While intrepidly exploring rec.food.drink.tea, Space Cowboy rolled
> initiative and posted the following:
>
> > At least someone acknowledges my creative juices where ranting
> > is part of my style and chances are you'll learn a thing or two
> > about tea while being entertained. You might use rosetta as a
> > synonym for the idea of multilingual translation but in this
> > case is copyright for the specific intentional use to mean the
> > translation of Chinese English tea terms. If you want to use
> > rosetta to mean the same thing you'll need my permission. I was
> > first and anybody else is second which is the minimum test for
> > copyright infrigement.
>
> Except that "The Rosetta Stone Language Library" has been around
> since at least 1996 and is available for Chinese (Mandarin). Care to
> lay a wager as to whether or not it contains any tea terms?
>
> You can't copyright part of somebody else's dictionary.

While intrepidly exploring rec.food.drink.tea, Space Cowboy rolled
initiative and posted the following:

> Quips, quotes, catch phrases can be copyright in titles. The
> judge through out the Fox complaint about the Franklin title use
> of "Fair and Balanced" because it met the copyright test "common
> use". Titles become part of the public domain after they exceed
> copyright protection. The Potter franchise has sucessfully sued
> several people using their titles in knockoff publications.

By your own definition, then, "rosetta stone" is public domain.

--
Derek

There is no greater joy than soaring high on the wings of your
dreams, except maybe the joy of watching a dreamer who has nowhere
to land but in the ocean of reality.

While intrepidly exploring rec.food.drink.tea, Space Cowboy rolled
initiative and posted the following:

> An Ad Hominem accusation cannot apply to institutions or in this
> case a generational reference only a person. The common
> accepted use of troll is someone looking for an argument for any
> reason. I'm just protecting my intellectual property illegally
> usurped by a website. Private coversations cannot be copyright
> unless published. Even if you published something in 98 I first
> posted about my cheatsheet of Chinese and English tea terms here
> in 95. Copyright law has the Doctrine of Antecedent where I
> could have a ruling to apply my rosetta characterization in 2004
> to all my previous posts about the subject starting in 95. The
> John Kerry reference has already morphed into the colloquial
> "I'm not at liberty to say who" similar to wardrobe malfunction
> "for any unplanned contingency".

Actually, Ad Hominem is attempting to discredit my position based
on a irrelevant personal characteristic. The generation in which I
was born is an irrelevant personal characteristic that neither
supports your assertion that I support plagiarism nor invalidates
my assertion that you're acting like a troll - since much of your
behavior fits the definition of "troll" you provided.

The point about the private conversation is not that the
conversation was copyrighted. The point is that the idea of
translating between languages using a cheatsheet is not new, and
was not originated by you. It is a public domain behavior that
millions of people have engaged in - particularly in language
classes.


While copyright law as a Doctrine of Antecedent, it also does not
allow you to copyright "ideas, procedures, methods, systems,
processes, concepts, principles, discoveries or devices" except in
the actual "description, explanation or illustration."

Nor can you copyright works "Works consisting entirely of
information that is common property and containing no original
authorship". Both Chinese and English are common property.

(http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#wwp)


The concept you claim is yours has been around for at least a
hundred years. You can't copyright the process, and you can't
copyright the languages. What you can copyright is the description
you gave of the process.

So until Mike starts quoting you without citation, you've got
nothing.


--
Derek

There is no greater joy than soaring high on the wings of your
dreams, except maybe the joy of watching a dreamer who has nowhere
to land but in the ocean of reality.

So you think that the fact that other people have better filtering programs
than I do you makes you less of a rude asshole?

>Subject: The Puerh Rosetta Page
>From: (Space Cowboy)
>Date: 3/18/2004 9:33 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>Others claim to have superduper heuristic newsgroup readers that can
>sniff out my faintess echos and killfile me.
>
>Jim
>
(Tom) wrote in message
>...
>> If you feel that someone has violated your copyright, go hire a lawyer.
>>
>> If you would like to continuing being an asshole on some subject other than
>> tea, please ad "OT" to your reference line so my anti-spam filters can do
>their
>> job and keep your stupid, inane chatter out of my in box.
>
>
>
>
>
>


--Tom
-oo-
""\o~
------------------------------------
"Homo sum, humani nil a me alienum puto."
Terrance

Just because you mentioned a commonly known "process" once or twice
does not mean that you can lay a copyright claim to it. All you ever
did was refer to the "process" that you used. You never published
anything publicly other than a bunch troll banter. At least Mike is
contributing something for others to share. From what I can see you
just zero in on the dude anytime he posts anything at all, could it be
that you just jealous?

If you think you can do better then just shut up and do it.

And I don't even like pu-erh.... or trolls for that matter!

Lamar

>See my other post about the first reference to a chinese english
>teaterms cheatsheet in 95 and copyright laws allowing retroactive use
>of new terms. Looks like I need to talk to a cha-ching copyright
>chaser.
>
>Jim