Hi group,

I came across a few different samples of green darjeeling as well as
an oolong from daarjeeling in my local tea shop. Must say that I was
not soo happy with them. They were 'good' teas, no doubt, but failed
to satisfy me, I am more into chinese teas, this is not my topic as
this is a matter of personal taste.

My question: I tried with many different relations tea/water
temperature/steeping time but never found any relation that would
allow to have more than one steep from a tea, which I find a little
odd for green and oolong teas in general. Why is that? I do not think
this is a matter of 'quality' as I use very cheap green tea which I
steep at least three times. What can it be?

I noted that all the green/oolong darjeelings had a basic aroma that
is very typical for (good) black darjeeling, can it be that the
fermentation process is simply more complete that witzh chinese green
teas? They looked a little like that...

Thanks for any input

Ralf

"Ralf Schreiner" > wrote in message
...
> Hi group,
>
> I came across a few different samples of green darjeeling as well as
> an oolong from daarjeeling in my local tea shop. Must say that I was
> not soo happy with them. They were 'good' teas, no doubt, but failed
> to satisfy me, I am more into chinese teas, this is not my topic as
> this is a matter of personal taste.
>
> My question: I tried with many different relations tea/water
> temperature/steeping time but never found any relation that would
> allow to have more than one steep from a tea, which I find a little
> odd for green and oolong teas in general. Why is that? I do not think
> this is a matter of 'quality' as I use very cheap green tea which I
> steep at least three times. What can it be?
>
> I noted that all the green/oolong darjeelings had a basic aroma that
> is very typical for (good) black darjeeling, can it be that the
> fermentation process is simply more complete that witzh chinese green
> teas? They looked a little like that...
>
> Thanks for any input
>
> Ralf
>

Ralf,

My experience is that the number of steeps one can get from a particular tea
is more dependent on the leaf style than anything else. If the leaf style
is very "bold" (i.e., large or close to full leaf) then at least two steeps
are possible, assuming that the length of the first was not excessive. I
have a Darjeeling from the Seeyok garden called "Silver Pearls" which
reminds me of a hand-rolled Chinese tea (think Tiekuanyin or gunpowder); it
is largely whole leaf, and I can get two very satisfactory steeps from it.
But most Darjeeling is BOP (broken orange pekoe), and the leaves release
almost everything of interest during the first steep.

I could be wrong (the beauty of the internet is that someone will disagree
with every expressed opinion <g>), but I think the oxidation level is less
an indicator of multiple steeps than leaf size. Of course, an "acceptable"
steep is also a matter of personal taste.

Regards,
Dean

"Ralf Schreiner" > wrote in message
...
> Hi group,
>
> I came across a few different samples of green darjeeling as well as
> an oolong from daarjeeling in my local tea shop. Must say that I was
> not soo happy with them. They were 'good' teas, no doubt, but failed
> to satisfy me, I am more into chinese teas, this is not my topic as
> this is a matter of personal taste.
>
> My question: I tried with many different relations tea/water
> temperature/steeping time but never found any relation that would
> allow to have more than one steep from a tea, which I find a little
> odd for green and oolong teas in general. Why is that? I do not think
> this is a matter of 'quality' as I use very cheap green tea which I
> steep at least three times. What can it be?
>
> I noted that all the green/oolong darjeelings had a basic aroma that
> is very typical for (good) black darjeeling, can it be that the
> fermentation process is simply more complete that witzh chinese green
> teas? They looked a little like that...
>
> Thanks for any input
>
> Ralf
>

Ralf,

My experience is that the number of steeps one can get from a particular tea
is more dependent on the leaf style than anything else. If the leaf style
is very "bold" (i.e., large or close to full leaf) then at least two steeps
are possible, assuming that the length of the first was not excessive. I
have a Darjeeling from the Seeyok garden called "Silver Pearls" which
reminds me of a hand-rolled Chinese tea (think Tiekuanyin or gunpowder); it
is largely whole leaf, and I can get two very satisfactory steeps from it.
But most Darjeeling is BOP (broken orange pekoe), and the leaves release
almost everything of interest during the first steep.

I could be wrong (the beauty of the internet is that someone will disagree
with every expressed opinion <g>), but I think the oxidation level is less
an indicator of multiple steeps than leaf size. Of course, an "acceptable"
steep is also a matter of personal taste.

Regards,
Dean

On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 12:32:23 GMT, "DPM" > wrote:

Dean,

>My experience is that the number of steeps one can get from a particular tea
>is more dependent on the leaf style than anything else. If the leaf style
>is very "bold" (i.e., large or close to full leaf) then at least two steeps
>are possible, assuming that the length of the first was not excessive. I

Not sure here, at least the oolong type darjeeling ("Emerald Arya")
was a straight full leaf tea and was especially dissapointing as the
2nd steep was nothing more than dyed water, one of the green
darjeeling ("Sharma") was far more on the broken side but this had the
'best' 2nd steeping from all these teas (in my definition: a brew that
carried a lot of the aroma one had from the first steep)

>an indicator of multiple steeps than leaf size. Of course, an "acceptable"
>steep is also a matter of personal taste.

That is right. I am coming from green(ish) Ti Guan Yin types and other
Anhui and selected Taiwan teas so I am propably prejudiced here.

All the best
Ralf

On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 12:32:23 GMT, "DPM" > wrote:

Dean,

>My experience is that the number of steeps one can get from a particular tea
>is more dependent on the leaf style than anything else. If the leaf style
>is very "bold" (i.e., large or close to full leaf) then at least two steeps
>are possible, assuming that the length of the first was not excessive. I

Not sure here, at least the oolong type darjeeling ("Emerald Arya")
was a straight full leaf tea and was especially dissapointing as the
2nd steep was nothing more than dyed water, one of the green
darjeeling ("Sharma") was far more on the broken side but this had the
'best' 2nd steeping from all these teas (in my definition: a brew that
carried a lot of the aroma one had from the first steep)

>an indicator of multiple steeps than leaf size. Of course, an "acceptable"
>steep is also a matter of personal taste.

That is right. I am coming from green(ish) Ti Guan Yin types and other
Anhui and selected Taiwan teas so I am propably prejudiced here.

All the best
Ralf

"Ralf Schreiner" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 12:32:23 GMT, "DPM" > wrote:
>
> Dean,
>
> >My experience is that the number of steeps one can get from a particular
tea
> >is more dependent on the leaf style than anything else. If the leaf
style
> >is very "bold" (i.e., large or close to full leaf) then at least two
steeps
> >are possible, assuming that the length of the first was not excessive. I
>
> Not sure here, at least the oolong type darjeeling ("Emerald Arya")
> was a straight full leaf tea and was especially dissapointing as the
> 2nd steep was nothing more than dyed water, one of the green
> darjeeling ("Sharma") was far more on the broken side but this had the
> 'best' 2nd steeping from all these teas (in my definition: a brew that
> carried a lot of the aroma one had from the first steep)
>
I don't find most Darjeelings to have a pronounced "nose", like Ti Guan Yin
and Baozhong oolongs. Darjeelings seem to concentrate their essence on the
palate, so for me, an "acceptable" second steep is one which carries a
similar flavor and intensity profile to the first. I usually steep BOP
styles 3 minutes, but shorten it to 2-2.5 minutes if I want to get a second
steep from a bold leaf.

Regards,
Dean

"Ralf Schreiner" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 12:32:23 GMT, "DPM" > wrote:
>
> Dean,
>
> >My experience is that the number of steeps one can get from a particular
tea
> >is more dependent on the leaf style than anything else. If the leaf
style
> >is very "bold" (i.e., large or close to full leaf) then at least two
steeps
> >are possible, assuming that the length of the first was not excessive. I
>
> Not sure here, at least the oolong type darjeeling ("Emerald Arya")
> was a straight full leaf tea and was especially dissapointing as the
> 2nd steep was nothing more than dyed water, one of the green
> darjeeling ("Sharma") was far more on the broken side but this had the
> 'best' 2nd steeping from all these teas (in my definition: a brew that
> carried a lot of the aroma one had from the first steep)
>
I don't find most Darjeelings to have a pronounced "nose", like Ti Guan Yin
and Baozhong oolongs. Darjeelings seem to concentrate their essence on the
palate, so for me, an "acceptable" second steep is one which carries a
similar flavor and intensity profile to the first. I usually steep BOP
styles 3 minutes, but shorten it to 2-2.5 minutes if I want to get a second
steep from a bold leaf.

Regards,
Dean

Hi Dean,

>I don't find most Darjeelings to have a pronounced "nose", like Ti Guan Yin
>and Baozhong oolongs. Darjeelings seem to concentrate their essence on the
>palate,

Yes, but why is that? And why does is seems to be the same with green
tea as it is with black (darjeeling)?

>similar flavor and intensity profile to the first. I usually steep BOP
>styles 3 minutes, but shorten it to 2-2.5 minutes if I want to get a second
>steep from a bold leaf.

You mean _black_ BOP? Never tried a 2nd steep though I heard the
stories about britisch grannies drying their used tea bags and
re-using them. Their grandchildren are not so fond of that technique
;o)

Regards
Ralf

Hi Dean,

>I don't find most Darjeelings to have a pronounced "nose", like Ti Guan Yin
>and Baozhong oolongs. Darjeelings seem to concentrate their essence on the
>palate,

Yes, but why is that? And why does is seems to be the same with green
tea as it is with black (darjeeling)?

>similar flavor and intensity profile to the first. I usually steep BOP
>styles 3 minutes, but shorten it to 2-2.5 minutes if I want to get a second
>steep from a bold leaf.

You mean _black_ BOP? Never tried a 2nd steep though I heard the
stories about britisch grannies drying their used tea bags and
re-using them. Their grandchildren are not so fond of that technique
;o)

Regards
Ralf

"Ralf Schreiner" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Dean,
>
> >I don't find most Darjeelings to have a pronounced "nose", like Ti Guan
Yin
> >and Baozhong oolongs. Darjeelings seem to concentrate their essence on
the
> >palate,
>
> Yes, but why is that? And why does is seems to be the same with green
> tea as it is with black (darjeeling)?
>

If you're asking why Darjeeling teas have different characteristics than
similar style Chinese teas, that's not a question I can answer, although
I've certainly thought about it.

> >similar flavor and intensity profile to the first. I usually steep BOP
> >styles 3 minutes, but shorten it to 2-2.5 minutes if I want to get a
second
> >steep from a bold leaf.
>
> You mean _black_ BOP? Never tried a 2nd steep though I heard the
> stories about britisch grannies drying their used tea bags and
> re-using them. Their grandchildren are not so fond of that technique
> ;o)
>

Again, I'm talking about loose bold, mainly whole-leaf teas, not the
fannings or dust that fill tea bags nor most broken-leaf style teas. My
original assertion was that the quality of a subsequent steep was, in
general, a function of leaf size, not oxidation level. I believe the larger
the leaf, the lower the surface area and the slower the infusion rate, and
that this phenomenon is independent of whether the tea is green, oolong or
black.

As an example, this weekend I made a pot of Gopaldhara WT-3; this tea
consists of 50% one leaf and a bud and 50% two leaves and a bud. The leaves
are from Clonal bushes and strictly plucked from a single variety of clone.
They were rolled by hand, resulting in an unusually bold leaf appearance. I
used about 4.5 teaspoons of tea and about 600ml of water. I heated the
water to just about boiling and steeped 3 minutes. My second steep was 400
ml of water for 4 minutes. The result did not have the complexity of the
first steep, but it was certainly acceptable.

> Regards
> Ralf
>

"Ralf Schreiner" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Dean,
>
> >I don't find most Darjeelings to have a pronounced "nose", like Ti Guan
Yin
> >and Baozhong oolongs. Darjeelings seem to concentrate their essence on
the
> >palate,
>
> Yes, but why is that? And why does is seems to be the same with green
> tea as it is with black (darjeeling)?
>

If you're asking why Darjeeling teas have different characteristics than
similar style Chinese teas, that's not a question I can answer, although
I've certainly thought about it.

> >similar flavor and intensity profile to the first. I usually steep BOP
> >styles 3 minutes, but shorten it to 2-2.5 minutes if I want to get a
second
> >steep from a bold leaf.
>
> You mean _black_ BOP? Never tried a 2nd steep though I heard the
> stories about britisch grannies drying their used tea bags and
> re-using them. Their grandchildren are not so fond of that technique
> ;o)
>

Again, I'm talking about loose bold, mainly whole-leaf teas, not the
fannings or dust that fill tea bags nor most broken-leaf style teas. My
original assertion was that the quality of a subsequent steep was, in
general, a function of leaf size, not oxidation level. I believe the larger
the leaf, the lower the surface area and the slower the infusion rate, and
that this phenomenon is independent of whether the tea is green, oolong or
black.

As an example, this weekend I made a pot of Gopaldhara WT-3; this tea
consists of 50% one leaf and a bud and 50% two leaves and a bud. The leaves
are from Clonal bushes and strictly plucked from a single variety of clone.
They were rolled by hand, resulting in an unusually bold leaf appearance. I
used about 4.5 teaspoons of tea and about 600ml of water. I heated the
water to just about boiling and steeped 3 minutes. My second steep was 400
ml of water for 4 minutes. The result did not have the complexity of the
first steep, but it was certainly acceptable.

> Regards
> Ralf
>

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 12:16:07 GMT, "DPM" > wrote:


>Again, I'm talking about loose bold, mainly whole-leaf teas, not the
>fannings or dust that fill tea bags nor most broken-leaf style teas. My
>original assertion was that the quality of a subsequent steep was, in
>general, a function of leaf size, not oxidation level. I believe the larger
>the leaf, the lower the surface area and the slower the infusion rate, and
>that this phenomenon is independent of whether the tea is green, oolong or
>black.

Sounds convincing, but does not explain what I experienced. The
Darjeeeling oolong I have tried had in fact very big, complete leaves.
The aroma of the dry leaves was what I expected: a very flowery
'oollong-scnet' combined with the typical aroma of a very good
darjeeling. The leaves could not have been more intact. Also it was
pretty fresh. In fact, form the appearance of the (used) leaves one
could imagine it was a top class Ti Guan Yin. But onlky the first
steep, the second did not have the aroma or taste to make it an
acceptable steep in my book.

Must be something else, I wiosh I had a little more insight in the
making of really fine oolong teas, I understand a lot of handwork is
involved, could this make a difference maybe?

Thank you all,
Ralf

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 12:16:07 GMT, "DPM" > wrote:


>Again, I'm talking about loose bold, mainly whole-leaf teas, not the
>fannings or dust that fill tea bags nor most broken-leaf style teas. My
>original assertion was that the quality of a subsequent steep was, in
>general, a function of leaf size, not oxidation level. I believe the larger
>the leaf, the lower the surface area and the slower the infusion rate, and
>that this phenomenon is independent of whether the tea is green, oolong or
>black.

Sounds convincing, but does not explain what I experienced. The
Darjeeeling oolong I have tried had in fact very big, complete leaves.
The aroma of the dry leaves was what I expected: a very flowery
'oollong-scnet' combined with the typical aroma of a very good
darjeeling. The leaves could not have been more intact. Also it was
pretty fresh. In fact, form the appearance of the (used) leaves one
could imagine it was a top class Ti Guan Yin. But onlky the first
steep, the second did not have the aroma or taste to make it an
acceptable steep in my book.

Must be something else, I wiosh I had a little more insight in the
making of really fine oolong teas, I understand a lot of handwork is
involved, could this make a difference maybe?

Thank you all,
Ralf