Hi Space Cowboy,

> I see the Chinese characters. I see the Japanese character for KIN
> but nothing for PUER (at least the MS CJK unicode set is free).

It's not in "characters" but in katakana, the phonetic writing Japanese use
for foreign words (the second character of puer is not in the standard
Japanese fonts, they can't input it). To see it an additional set of fonts
is needed. You can probably live without it. That writing is necessary if
Mike wants to see the frequency of the puer+kin Japanese pages on google.

> I'll also take the
> picture from the recent Tie Guanyin post and see if I can find that
> particular brand with it's sexy leaf. If I can't find that brand I'll
> try some other expensive version and see after all these decades it
> was my wallet causing the dislike and not my tastebuds. My local tea
> vendor got some expensive TG I like about $10/100g YOWZER!!! I've
> been converted and damn the 5th infusion tastes like the first ;-).

I have never regretted buying teas that were relatively expensive or even
frankly not in my means. It's sure a good product, storage, freshness, and
everything has a cost. But that makes a real difference in the cup.
Especially for Oolongs that have been mass-produced in abysmal quality. That
can be night and day.

I've made a strange bargain in Chinatown-shopping. I've found at a discount
store Lotus tea in a nice wooden box (with "cha" or "tra" ? pyrograved in
Vietnamese calligraphy). It was a old, I knew it, it didn't cost more than
an empty box. When I opened it, it looked like and tasted like unflavored
cheap black tea, no lotus flavor. Forgot it, but last week I intented to
re-use the box for pencils, so I gave a try to the leaves in cold infusion.
There was a little miracle : in cold water, the leaves take back their green
color and flavor and the lotus fragrance is also revived. It's very
refreshing. Great for this season.

Kuri

"cc" > wrote in message >...
> Hi Space Cowboy,
>
> > I see the Chinese characters. I see the Japanese character for KIN
> > but nothing for PUER (at least the MS CJK unicode set is free).
>
> It's not in "characters" but in katakana, the phonetic writing Japanese use
> for foreign words (the second character of puer is not in the standard
> Japanese fonts, they can't input it). To see it an additional set of fonts
> is needed. You can probably live without it. That writing is necessary if
> Mike wants to see the frequency of the puer+kin Japanese pages on google.

I understand why Western alphabets can't incorporate ideograms. But I
thought using a bad example that McDonald's in Chinese or Japanese was
itself an ideogram that didn't require change. For those without
unicodes or font sets and normal newsreaders you could capture a
graphic picture of the window and whittle it down with an editor
(reduce size) to show the ideograms of interest and include that in
your posts. Unfortunately Google usenet will filter out any graphics.

> > I'll also take the
> > picture from the recent Tie Guanyin post and see if I can find that
> > particular brand with it's sexy leaf. If I can't find that brand I'll
> > try some other expensive version and see after all these decades it
> > was my wallet causing the dislike and not my tastebuds. My local tea
> > vendor got some expensive TG I like about $10/100g YOWZER!!! I've
> > been converted and damn the 5th infusion tastes like the first ;-).
>
> I have never regretted buying teas that were relatively expensive or even
> frankly not in my means. It's sure a good product, storage, freshness, and
> everything has a cost. But that makes a real difference in the cup.
> Especially for Oolongs that have been mass-produced in abysmal quality. That
> can be night and day.

For the past two years I've been buying 'expensive' teas from a local
tea shoppe that opened nearby. It boasts a 100 different teas but I
enjoy the banter with the retired British engineer owner. The last
trip he showed me how he removed the plunger arm on French presses so
the strainer in now part of the lid. I will admit I enjoy his oolongs
which are my absolute favorites over anything I can buy in the ethnic
stores. But I still enjoy my 'cheap' teas and there is nothing better
than commercial blends from Britain. I just finished a cup of
'expensive' Dimbula and I can't say it is worth the price of a 'cheap'
Dimbula. I think pricing in tea is supply and demand. Tea is like
oil it should be cheap and when it isn't I feel there is a cartel
somewhere. In this case I clean up at his sales. He didn't like his
Java teas but I do. They're very strong so a little goes a long ways.

> I've made a strange bargain in Chinatown-shopping. I've found at a discount
> store Lotus tea in a nice wooden box (with "cha" or "tra" ? pyrograved in
> Vietnamese calligraphy). It was a old, I knew it, it didn't cost more than
> an empty box. When I opened it, it looked like and tasted like unflavored
> cheap black tea, no lotus flavor. Forgot it, but last week I intented to
> re-use the box for pencils, so I gave a try to the leaves in cold infusion.
> There was a little miracle : in cold water, the leaves take back their green
> color and flavor and the lotus fragrance is also revived. It's very
> refreshing. Great for this season.

I've got some 10 year old Lotus Blossom so I'll give it a try. From
the beginning I never liked it hot so I'll try it cold. This is the
reason I love Usenet so much. It is give and take with people around
the world. It's not a lifeless WWW url.

> Kuri

Jim

"cc" > wrote in message >...
> Hi Space Cowboy,
>
> > I see the Chinese characters. I see the Japanese character for KIN
> > but nothing for PUER (at least the MS CJK unicode set is free).
>
> It's not in "characters" but in katakana, the phonetic writing Japanese use
> for foreign words (the second character of puer is not in the standard
> Japanese fonts, they can't input it). To see it an additional set of fonts
> is needed. You can probably live without it. That writing is necessary if
> Mike wants to see the frequency of the puer+kin Japanese pages on google.

I understand why Western alphabets can't incorporate ideograms. But I
thought using a bad example that McDonald's in Chinese or Japanese was
itself an ideogram that didn't require change. For those without
unicodes or font sets and normal newsreaders you could capture a
graphic picture of the window and whittle it down with an editor
(reduce size) to show the ideograms of interest and include that in
your posts. Unfortunately Google usenet will filter out any graphics.

> > I'll also take the
> > picture from the recent Tie Guanyin post and see if I can find that
> > particular brand with it's sexy leaf. If I can't find that brand I'll
> > try some other expensive version and see after all these decades it
> > was my wallet causing the dislike and not my tastebuds. My local tea
> > vendor got some expensive TG I like about $10/100g YOWZER!!! I've
> > been converted and damn the 5th infusion tastes like the first ;-).
>
> I have never regretted buying teas that were relatively expensive or even
> frankly not in my means. It's sure a good product, storage, freshness, and
> everything has a cost. But that makes a real difference in the cup.
> Especially for Oolongs that have been mass-produced in abysmal quality. That
> can be night and day.

For the past two years I've been buying 'expensive' teas from a local
tea shoppe that opened nearby. It boasts a 100 different teas but I
enjoy the banter with the retired British engineer owner. The last
trip he showed me how he removed the plunger arm on French presses so
the strainer in now part of the lid. I will admit I enjoy his oolongs
which are my absolute favorites over anything I can buy in the ethnic
stores. But I still enjoy my 'cheap' teas and there is nothing better
than commercial blends from Britain. I just finished a cup of
'expensive' Dimbula and I can't say it is worth the price of a 'cheap'
Dimbula. I think pricing in tea is supply and demand. Tea is like
oil it should be cheap and when it isn't I feel there is a cartel
somewhere. In this case I clean up at his sales. He didn't like his
Java teas but I do. They're very strong so a little goes a long ways.

> I've made a strange bargain in Chinatown-shopping. I've found at a discount
> store Lotus tea in a nice wooden box (with "cha" or "tra" ? pyrograved in
> Vietnamese calligraphy). It was a old, I knew it, it didn't cost more than
> an empty box. When I opened it, it looked like and tasted like unflavored
> cheap black tea, no lotus flavor. Forgot it, but last week I intented to
> re-use the box for pencils, so I gave a try to the leaves in cold infusion.
> There was a little miracle : in cold water, the leaves take back their green
> color and flavor and the lotus fragrance is also revived. It's very
> refreshing. Great for this season.

I've got some 10 year old Lotus Blossom so I'll give it a try. From
the beginning I never liked it hot so I'll try it cold. This is the
reason I love Usenet so much. It is give and take with people around
the world. It's not a lifeless WWW url.

> Kuri

Jim

cc wrote:
>

> In Puer, there are both enzymes for the oxidation and a specific bacteria
> for the long-run reaction (that is also called "post-fermentation" but
> should be "bacterial fermentation" ). 2 different phenomenons.
>
> That Puer-kin is naturally living in treebark, and has to be "introduced"
> into the dried tea leaves. Well, at least that's what they say they do in
> Xishuangbanna and what the Japanese micro-organism scientists (that are
> researching the action of that Puer-kin) say about it.

Very informative, Kuri. Puerh's shroud of mystery continues to be
lifted.

> Certainly what you say about sun-drying is essential obtain a good quality
> Puer tea (and get the require humidity,etc,to allow the puer-kin to develop
> well).
> The phenomenon has been discovered relatively recently, during hundreds of
> years, the teaproducers didn't know there was a Puer-kin and didn't know
> they introduced it. Your comparison with yogurth is good, in old times,
> people didn't use any "starter" and that worked because the starter was
> present in the container for some reason, most bacterias used in food
> appeared that way, by chance. Here, they happened to store the tea in places
> where "Puer-kin" was present. That's how I take it when your teacher says it
> is "not introduced artificially".

Another parallel can perhaps be found in natto, where the bacterial
"starter" is naturally found in the straw wrapping enclosing the cooked
beans.

So, is this what defines what is a Puerh, really? Controlled rot?

--crymad

cc wrote:
>

> In Puer, there are both enzymes for the oxidation and a specific bacteria
> for the long-run reaction (that is also called "post-fermentation" but
> should be "bacterial fermentation" ). 2 different phenomenons.
>
> That Puer-kin is naturally living in treebark, and has to be "introduced"
> into the dried tea leaves. Well, at least that's what they say they do in
> Xishuangbanna and what the Japanese micro-organism scientists (that are
> researching the action of that Puer-kin) say about it.

Very informative, Kuri. Puerh's shroud of mystery continues to be
lifted.

> Certainly what you say about sun-drying is essential obtain a good quality
> Puer tea (and get the require humidity,etc,to allow the puer-kin to develop
> well).
> The phenomenon has been discovered relatively recently, during hundreds of
> years, the teaproducers didn't know there was a Puer-kin and didn't know
> they introduced it. Your comparison with yogurth is good, in old times,
> people didn't use any "starter" and that worked because the starter was
> present in the container for some reason, most bacterias used in food
> appeared that way, by chance. Here, they happened to store the tea in places
> where "Puer-kin" was present. That's how I take it when your teacher says it
> is "not introduced artificially".

Another parallel can perhaps be found in natto, where the bacterial
"starter" is naturally found in the straw wrapping enclosing the cooked
beans.

So, is this what defines what is a Puerh, really? Controlled rot?

--crymad

cc wrote:
>

> In Puer, there are both enzymes for the oxidation and a specific bacteria
> for the long-run reaction (that is also called "post-fermentation" but
> should be "bacterial fermentation" ). 2 different phenomenons.
>
> That Puer-kin is naturally living in treebark, and has to be "introduced"
> into the dried tea leaves. Well, at least that's what they say they do in
> Xishuangbanna and what the Japanese micro-organism scientists (that are
> researching the action of that Puer-kin) say about it.

Very informative, Kuri. Puerh's shroud of mystery continues to be
lifted.

> Certainly what you say about sun-drying is essential obtain a good quality
> Puer tea (and get the require humidity,etc,to allow the puer-kin to develop
> well).
> The phenomenon has been discovered relatively recently, during hundreds of
> years, the teaproducers didn't know there was a Puer-kin and didn't know
> they introduced it. Your comparison with yogurth is good, in old times,
> people didn't use any "starter" and that worked because the starter was
> present in the container for some reason, most bacterias used in food
> appeared that way, by chance. Here, they happened to store the tea in places
> where "Puer-kin" was present. That's how I take it when your teacher says it
> is "not introduced artificially".

Another parallel can perhaps be found in natto, where the bacterial
"starter" is naturally found in the straw wrapping enclosing the cooked
beans.

So, is this what defines what is a Puerh, really? Controlled rot?

--crymad

Sorry but missed most of this long and interesting posting. If you tell me
who needs which characters, I will try to send hime/her a Word file with
Chinese characteres in vectorial grafic (any preference for the font?)
L


"Space Cowboy" > ha scritto nel messaggio
om...
> "cc" > wrote in message
>...
> > Hi Space Cowboy,
> >
> > > I see the Chinese characters. I see the Japanese character for KIN
> > > but nothing for PUER (at least the MS CJK unicode set is free).
> >
> > It's not in "characters" but in katakana, the phonetic writing Japanese
use
> > for foreign words (the second character of puer is not in the standard
> > Japanese fonts, they can't input it). To see it an additional set of
fonts
> > is needed. You can probably live without it. That writing is necessary
if
> > Mike wants to see the frequency of the puer+kin Japanese pages on
google.
>
> I understand why Western alphabets can't incorporate ideograms. But I
> thought using a bad example that McDonald's in Chinese or Japanese was
> itself an ideogram that didn't require change. For those without
> unicodes or font sets and normal newsreaders you could capture a
> graphic picture of the window and whittle it down with an editor
> (reduce size) to show the ideograms of interest and include that in
> your posts. Unfortunately Google usenet will filter out any graphics.
>
> > > I'll also take the
> > > picture from the recent Tie Guanyin post and see if I can find that
> > > particular brand with it's sexy leaf. If I can't find that brand I'll
> > > try some other expensive version and see after all these decades it
> > > was my wallet causing the dislike and not my tastebuds. My local tea
> > > vendor got some expensive TG I like about $10/100g YOWZER!!! I've
> > > been converted and damn the 5th infusion tastes like the first ;-).
> >
> > I have never regretted buying teas that were relatively expensive or
even
> > frankly not in my means. It's sure a good product, storage, freshness,
and
> > everything has a cost. But that makes a real difference in the cup.
> > Especially for Oolongs that have been mass-produced in abysmal quality.
That
> > can be night and day.
>
> For the past two years I've been buying 'expensive' teas from a local
> tea shoppe that opened nearby. It boasts a 100 different teas but I
> enjoy the banter with the retired British engineer owner. The last
> trip he showed me how he removed the plunger arm on French presses so
> the strainer in now part of the lid. I will admit I enjoy his oolongs
> which are my absolute favorites over anything I can buy in the ethnic
> stores. But I still enjoy my 'cheap' teas and there is nothing better
> than commercial blends from Britain. I just finished a cup of
> 'expensive' Dimbula and I can't say it is worth the price of a 'cheap'
> Dimbula. I think pricing in tea is supply and demand. Tea is like
> oil it should be cheap and when it isn't I feel there is a cartel
> somewhere. In this case I clean up at his sales. He didn't like his
> Java teas but I do. They're very strong so a little goes a long ways.
>
> > I've made a strange bargain in Chinatown-shopping. I've found at a
discount
> > store Lotus tea in a nice wooden box (with "cha" or "tra" ? pyrograved
in
> > Vietnamese calligraphy). It was a old, I knew it, it didn't cost more
than
> > an empty box. When I opened it, it looked like and tasted like
unflavored
> > cheap black tea, no lotus flavor. Forgot it, but last week I intented to
> > re-use the box for pencils, so I gave a try to the leaves in cold
infusion.
> > There was a little miracle : in cold water, the leaves take back their
green
> > color and flavor and the lotus fragrance is also revived. It's very
> > refreshing. Great for this season.
>
> I've got some 10 year old Lotus Blossom so I'll give it a try. From
> the beginning I never liked it hot so I'll try it cold. This is the
> reason I love Usenet so much. It is give and take with people around
> the world. It's not a lifeless WWW url.
>
> > Kuri
>
> Jim

Sorry but missed most of this long and interesting posting. If you tell me
who needs which characters, I will try to send hime/her a Word file with
Chinese characteres in vectorial grafic (any preference for the font?)
L


"Space Cowboy" > ha scritto nel messaggio
om...
> "cc" > wrote in message
>...
> > Hi Space Cowboy,
> >
> > > I see the Chinese characters. I see the Japanese character for KIN
> > > but nothing for PUER (at least the MS CJK unicode set is free).
> >
> > It's not in "characters" but in katakana, the phonetic writing Japanese
use
> > for foreign words (the second character of puer is not in the standard
> > Japanese fonts, they can't input it). To see it an additional set of
fonts
> > is needed. You can probably live without it. That writing is necessary
if
> > Mike wants to see the frequency of the puer+kin Japanese pages on
google.
>
> I understand why Western alphabets can't incorporate ideograms. But I
> thought using a bad example that McDonald's in Chinese or Japanese was
> itself an ideogram that didn't require change. For those without
> unicodes or font sets and normal newsreaders you could capture a
> graphic picture of the window and whittle it down with an editor
> (reduce size) to show the ideograms of interest and include that in
> your posts. Unfortunately Google usenet will filter out any graphics.
>
> > > I'll also take the
> > > picture from the recent Tie Guanyin post and see if I can find that
> > > particular brand with it's sexy leaf. If I can't find that brand I'll
> > > try some other expensive version and see after all these decades it
> > > was my wallet causing the dislike and not my tastebuds. My local tea
> > > vendor got some expensive TG I like about $10/100g YOWZER!!! I've
> > > been converted and damn the 5th infusion tastes like the first ;-).
> >
> > I have never regretted buying teas that were relatively expensive or
even
> > frankly not in my means. It's sure a good product, storage, freshness,
and
> > everything has a cost. But that makes a real difference in the cup.
> > Especially for Oolongs that have been mass-produced in abysmal quality.
That
> > can be night and day.
>
> For the past two years I've been buying 'expensive' teas from a local
> tea shoppe that opened nearby. It boasts a 100 different teas but I
> enjoy the banter with the retired British engineer owner. The last
> trip he showed me how he removed the plunger arm on French presses so
> the strainer in now part of the lid. I will admit I enjoy his oolongs
> which are my absolute favorites over anything I can buy in the ethnic
> stores. But I still enjoy my 'cheap' teas and there is nothing better
> than commercial blends from Britain. I just finished a cup of
> 'expensive' Dimbula and I can't say it is worth the price of a 'cheap'
> Dimbula. I think pricing in tea is supply and demand. Tea is like
> oil it should be cheap and when it isn't I feel there is a cartel
> somewhere. In this case I clean up at his sales. He didn't like his
> Java teas but I do. They're very strong so a little goes a long ways.
>
> > I've made a strange bargain in Chinatown-shopping. I've found at a
discount
> > store Lotus tea in a nice wooden box (with "cha" or "tra" ? pyrograved
in
> > Vietnamese calligraphy). It was a old, I knew it, it didn't cost more
than
> > an empty box. When I opened it, it looked like and tasted like
unflavored
> > cheap black tea, no lotus flavor. Forgot it, but last week I intented to
> > re-use the box for pencils, so I gave a try to the leaves in cold
infusion.
> > There was a little miracle : in cold water, the leaves take back their
green
> > color and flavor and the lotus fragrance is also revived. It's very
> > refreshing. Great for this season.
>
> I've got some 10 year old Lotus Blossom so I'll give it a try. From
> the beginning I never liked it hot so I'll try it cold. This is the
> reason I love Usenet so much. It is give and take with people around
> the world. It's not a lifeless WWW url.
>
> > Kuri
>
> Jim

Thanks for the offer Livio, but Kuri sent them to me in an email. I
was also able to read them, after a several hour delay, on Google. It
was actually quite helpful as the Chinese phrase led me to a lot of
good stuff. I am now truly convinced that fungi is introduced, either
by design or by nature, and this is something I have struggled with
for over a year.

How far are you from Cesano?

Ciao

>Sorry but missed most of this long and interesting posting. If you tell me
>who needs which characters, I will try to send hime/her a Word file with
>Chinese characteres in vectorial grafic (any preference for the font?)


Mike Petro
http://www.pu-erh.net
remove the "filter" in my email address to reply

Thanks for the offer Livio, but Kuri sent them to me in an email. I
was also able to read them, after a several hour delay, on Google. It
was actually quite helpful as the Chinese phrase led me to a lot of
good stuff. I am now truly convinced that fungi is introduced, either
by design or by nature, and this is something I have struggled with
for over a year.

How far are you from Cesano?

Ciao

>Sorry but missed most of this long and interesting posting. If you tell me
>who needs which characters, I will try to send hime/her a Word file with
>Chinese characteres in vectorial grafic (any preference for the font?)


Mike Petro
http://www.pu-erh.net
remove the "filter" in my email address to reply

So I can sleep at night knowing I can't live without it does anyone
know where I can find a unicode set for Japanese katakana? If not
then the specific unicode numbers so I can surf the unicode sites
maybe finding a match. My email address is now bogus so replace
ix.netcom.com with msn.com and netstuff with thenetstuff if you
capture the Japanese any other way. Hopefully the email harvestors
won't put the two together. Yeah someone was using netstuff on msn so
you add a prefix. Spacecowboy was gone and also any coherent
prefixes. Copycats.

Thanks,
Jim

"Livio Zanini" > wrote in message >.. .
> Sorry but missed most of this long and interesting posting. If you tell me
> who needs which characters, I will try to send hime/her a Word file with
> Chinese characteres in vectorial grafic (any preference for the font?)
> L
>
>
> "Space Cowboy" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> om...
> > "cc" > wrote in message
> >...
> > > Hi Space Cowboy,
> > >
> > > > I see the Chinese characters. I see the Japanese character for KIN
> > > > but nothing for PUER (at least the MS CJK unicode set is free).
> > >
> > > It's not in "characters" but in katakana, the phonetic writing Japanese
> use
> > > for foreign words (the second character of puer is not in the standard
> > > Japanese fonts, they can't input it). To see it an additional set of
> fonts
> > > is needed. You can probably live without it.

So I can sleep at night knowing I can't live without it does anyone
know where I can find a unicode set for Japanese katakana? If not
then the specific unicode numbers so I can surf the unicode sites
maybe finding a match. My email address is now bogus so replace
ix.netcom.com with msn.com and netstuff with thenetstuff if you
capture the Japanese any other way. Hopefully the email harvestors
won't put the two together. Yeah someone was using netstuff on msn so
you add a prefix. Spacecowboy was gone and also any coherent
prefixes. Copycats.

Thanks,
Jim

"Livio Zanini" > wrote in message >.. .
> Sorry but missed most of this long and interesting posting. If you tell me
> who needs which characters, I will try to send hime/her a Word file with
> Chinese characteres in vectorial grafic (any preference for the font?)
> L
>
>
> "Space Cowboy" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> om...
> > "cc" > wrote in message
> >...
> > > Hi Space Cowboy,
> > >
> > > > I see the Chinese characters. I see the Japanese character for KIN
> > > > but nothing for PUER (at least the MS CJK unicode set is free).
> > >
> > > It's not in "characters" but in katakana, the phonetic writing Japanese
> use
> > > for foreign words (the second character of puer is not in the standard
> > > Japanese fonts, they can't input it). To see it an additional set of
> fonts
> > > is needed. You can probably live without it.

"Space Cowboy" > wrote in message


> So I can sleep at night knowing I can't live without it does anyone
> know where I can find a unicode set for Japanese katakana? If not
> then the specific unicode numbers so I can surf the unicode sites
> maybe finding a match.

0x3000 to 0x3100 are hiragana
0x30aa to maybe 0x30zz are katakana
Once you have Japanese only kanji+ Sino-Koreano-Japanese Hanji/Kanji+
katakana+hiragana, that's OK for Japanese.

Well, having the fonts is one thing, using them with your computer another
one. I have much less problems with Chinese now. The other day at the local
bookstore I saw a booklet+ CDrom "learn Chinese in 10 minutes" and they said
that contained a dictionary, word-processor, learning software...for the
equivalent of $10. I bought that, and of course that doesn't work, but it
contained a little patch that added the Chinese fonts I hadn't to Japanese
XP and now I can imput them by stroke count or giving the key.

Kuri

"Space Cowboy" > wrote in message


> So I can sleep at night knowing I can't live without it does anyone
> know where I can find a unicode set for Japanese katakana? If not
> then the specific unicode numbers so I can surf the unicode sites
> maybe finding a match.

0x3000 to 0x3100 are hiragana
0x30aa to maybe 0x30zz are katakana
Once you have Japanese only kanji+ Sino-Koreano-Japanese Hanji/Kanji+
katakana+hiragana, that's OK for Japanese.

Well, having the fonts is one thing, using them with your computer another
one. I have much less problems with Chinese now. The other day at the local
bookstore I saw a booklet+ CDrom "learn Chinese in 10 minutes" and they said
that contained a dictionary, word-processor, learning software...for the
equivalent of $10. I bought that, and of course that doesn't work, but it
contained a little patch that added the Chinese fonts I hadn't to Japanese
XP and now I can imput them by stroke count or giving the key.

Kuri

Space Cowboy > wrote:

> ... does anyone know where I can find a unicode set
> for Japanese katakana?

http://www.unicode.org/charts/

Space Cowboy > wrote:

> ... does anyone know where I can find a unicode set
> for Japanese katakana?

http://www.unicode.org/charts/

Thanks for the follow up. I don't see that many missing unicodes for
Chinese and Korean Google webpage links. It is more prominent with
Google Japanese webpage links. I'll try to find a katakana+hiragana
unicode set and see if that plugs the hole. I'll post back with any
results. Of course then you link to the page and the more traditional
language font packs are required which is another story. Is katakana
the Japanese attempt to keep the language pure similar to the French
standard of eliminating foreign words and phrases?

Thanks,
Jim

"cc" > wrote in message >...
> "Space Cowboy" > wrote in message
>
>
> > So I can sleep at night knowing I can't live without it does anyone
> > know where I can find a unicode set for Japanese katakana? If not
> > then the specific unicode numbers so I can surf the unicode sites
> > maybe finding a match.
>
> 0x3000 to 0x3100 are hiragana
> 0x30aa to maybe 0x30zz are katakana
> Once you have Japanese only kanji+ Sino-Koreano-Japanese Hanji/Kanji+
> katakana+hiragana, that's OK for Japanese.
>
> Well, having the fonts is one thing, using them with your computer another
> one. I have much less problems with Chinese now. The other day at the local
> bookstore I saw a booklet+ CDrom "learn Chinese in 10 minutes" and they said
> that contained a dictionary, word-processor, learning software...for the
> equivalent of $10. I bought that, and of course that doesn't work, but it
> contained a little patch that added the Chinese fonts I hadn't to Japanese
> XP and now I can imput them by stroke count or giving the key.
>
> Kuri

Thanks for the follow up. I don't see that many missing unicodes for
Chinese and Korean Google webpage links. It is more prominent with
Google Japanese webpage links. I'll try to find a katakana+hiragana
unicode set and see if that plugs the hole. I'll post back with any
results. Of course then you link to the page and the more traditional
language font packs are required which is another story. Is katakana
the Japanese attempt to keep the language pure similar to the French
standard of eliminating foreign words and phrases?

Thanks,
Jim

"cc" > wrote in message >...
> "Space Cowboy" > wrote in message
>
>
> > So I can sleep at night knowing I can't live without it does anyone
> > know where I can find a unicode set for Japanese katakana? If not
> > then the specific unicode numbers so I can surf the unicode sites
> > maybe finding a match.
>
> 0x3000 to 0x3100 are hiragana
> 0x30aa to maybe 0x30zz are katakana
> Once you have Japanese only kanji+ Sino-Koreano-Japanese Hanji/Kanji+
> katakana+hiragana, that's OK for Japanese.
>
> Well, having the fonts is one thing, using them with your computer another
> one. I have much less problems with Chinese now. The other day at the local
> bookstore I saw a booklet+ CDrom "learn Chinese in 10 minutes" and they said
> that contained a dictionary, word-processor, learning software...for the
> equivalent of $10. I bought that, and of course that doesn't work, but it
> contained a little patch that added the Chinese fonts I hadn't to Japanese
> XP and now I can imput them by stroke count or giving the key.
>
> Kuri

Space Cowboy wrote:

> Is katakana
> the Japanese attempt to keep the language pure similar to the French
> standard of eliminating foreign words and phrases?

Not exactly. Though foreign words could be written phonetically in
hiragana, this would lead to much confusion when reading. Because of
the countless number of synonyms in Japanese and the absence of spaces
between words in print, a secondary phonetic character set for foreign
words - mostly nouns - makes sense. Sometimes katakana is used for
native Japanese words, if the writer feels the original kanji form is
too abstruse. In fact, on official paperwork like government forms,
medical records, or applications, individuals are required to write
names and addresses in both kanji and katakana. This is simply to avoid
any reading errors.

The number of foreign words in Japanese is enormous and continues to
grow every year. Katakana is by no means a way to stem this tide.

--crymad

Space Cowboy wrote:

> Is katakana
> the Japanese attempt to keep the language pure similar to the French
> standard of eliminating foreign words and phrases?

Not exactly. Though foreign words could be written phonetically in
hiragana, this would lead to much confusion when reading. Because of
the countless number of synonyms in Japanese and the absence of spaces
between words in print, a secondary phonetic character set for foreign
words - mostly nouns - makes sense. Sometimes katakana is used for
native Japanese words, if the writer feels the original kanji form is
too abstruse. In fact, on official paperwork like government forms,
medical records, or applications, individuals are required to write
names and addresses in both kanji and katakana. This is simply to avoid
any reading errors.

The number of foreign words in Japanese is enormous and continues to
grow every year. Katakana is by no means a way to stem this tide.

--crymad

Cesano in 20 km far from Milano. From Milano to Vicenza (the city where I
live) there are some 200 km.
L

"Mike Petro" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> Thanks for the offer Livio, but Kuri sent them to me in an email. I
> was also able to read them, after a several hour delay, on Google. It
> was actually quite helpful as the Chinese phrase led me to a lot of
> good stuff. I am now truly convinced that fungi is introduced, either
> by design or by nature, and this is something I have struggled with
> for over a year.
>
> How far are you from Cesano?
>
> Ciao
>
> >Sorry but missed most of this long and interesting posting. If you tell
me
> >who needs which characters, I will try to send hime/her a Word file with
> >Chinese characteres in vectorial grafic (any preference for the font?)
>
>
> Mike Petro
> http://www.pu-erh.net
> remove the "filter" in my email address to reply
>

Cesano in 20 km far from Milano. From Milano to Vicenza (the city where I
live) there are some 200 km.
L

"Mike Petro" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> Thanks for the offer Livio, but Kuri sent them to me in an email. I
> was also able to read them, after a several hour delay, on Google. It
> was actually quite helpful as the Chinese phrase led me to a lot of
> good stuff. I am now truly convinced that fungi is introduced, either
> by design or by nature, and this is something I have struggled with
> for over a year.
>
> How far are you from Cesano?
>
> Ciao
>
> >Sorry but missed most of this long and interesting posting. If you tell
me
> >who needs which characters, I will try to send hime/her a Word file with
> >Chinese characteres in vectorial grafic (any preference for the font?)
>
>
> Mike Petro
> http://www.pu-erh.net
> remove the "filter" in my email address to reply
>

So there is no official Japanese policy too keep the language pure
similar to the French ie for every foreign word there would be a
national representation.

Jim

crymad > wrote in message >...
> Space Cowboy wrote:
>
> > Is katakana
> > the Japanese attempt to keep the language pure similar to the French
> > standard of eliminating foreign words and phrases?

> The number of foreign words in Japanese is enormous and continues to
> grow every year. Katakana is by no means a way to stem this tide.
>
> --crymad

No, nothing like the L'Académie Française to protect the purity of
Japanese. Though during WWII, borrowed words were banned outright.
This has led to some fascinating discussions with older Japanese trying
to uncover how exactly they were forced to refer to purely foreign
things like bananas or kangaroos.

--crymad


Space Cowboy wrote:
>
> So there is no official Japanese policy too keep the language pure
> similar to the French ie for every foreign word there would be a
> national representation.
>
> Jim
>
> crymad > wrote in message >...
> > Space Cowboy wrote:
> >
> > > Is katakana
> > > the Japanese attempt to keep the language pure similar to the French
> > > standard of eliminating foreign words and phrases?
>
> > The number of foreign words in Japanese is enormous and continues to
> > grow every year. Katakana is by no means a way to stem this tide.
> >
> > --crymad

"crymad" > wrote in message

> No, nothing like the L'Académie Française to protect the purity of
> Japanese.

L'Academie Francaise is an old private joke. Nobody ever listened to them
and well, we have no real problem in French, we have always taken as many
loan words as other languages, and never passed the limit (the limit in my
opinion is when the man in the street no longer understands).

In Japan, it's the government that is desesperately trying to stop the
anarchic katakana-word chaos. They have now teams working on the problem.
The reason is the meaning of 80% of the katakana words is completely
obscure, nobody understands. They've passed the limit long before I
arrived. OK, they are loan words, but so randomly introduced and distorted
(in pronunciation and usage). I'm sure Crymad gets the picture.

The other day the Prime Minister was talking to the Diete and said he wanted
to discuss about "Japan frog" (the term was in spoken "katakana English"),
everybody was puzzled. After a few minutes, someone asked him what he was
talking about : he meant "Japanese flag". That guy is said to have
extraordinary communication skills for a Japanese politician.
Less educated people also create their katakana jargon.

On a package of tuo cha (it's written in decorative Chinese characters,
that's how I know what it is), on the back, they wrote in katakana to put
the "pua-rutibo-ru" (Puer tea-ball, they mean Puer tuo cha, they have just
invented the neologism) in a "tipottu" (tea pot).
A friend lectured me that I had to use an English style pot (a "tipottu")
with a ball-shaped tea strainer (a "tibo-ru"). As she hardly speaks English,
she never made the relation between "tibo-ru" and "tea ball", she has always
considered it like a brand name.

Kuri

"crymad" > wrote in message

> No, nothing like the L'Académie Française to protect the purity of
> Japanese.

L'Academie Francaise is an old private joke. Nobody ever listened to them
and well, we have no real problem in French, we have always taken as many
loan words as other languages, and never passed the limit (the limit in my
opinion is when the man in the street no longer understands).

In Japan, it's the government that is desesperately trying to stop the
anarchic katakana-word chaos. They have now teams working on the problem.
The reason is the meaning of 80% of the katakana words is completely
obscure, nobody understands. They've passed the limit long before I
arrived. OK, they are loan words, but so randomly introduced and distorted
(in pronunciation and usage). I'm sure Crymad gets the picture.

The other day the Prime Minister was talking to the Diete and said he wanted
to discuss about "Japan frog" (the term was in spoken "katakana English"),
everybody was puzzled. After a few minutes, someone asked him what he was
talking about : he meant "Japanese flag". That guy is said to have
extraordinary communication skills for a Japanese politician.
Less educated people also create their katakana jargon.

On a package of tuo cha (it's written in decorative Chinese characters,
that's how I know what it is), on the back, they wrote in katakana to put
the "pua-rutibo-ru" (Puer tea-ball, they mean Puer tuo cha, they have just
invented the neologism) in a "tipottu" (tea pot).
A friend lectured me that I had to use an English style pot (a "tipottu")
with a ball-shaped tea strainer (a "tibo-ru"). As she hardly speaks English,
she never made the relation between "tibo-ru" and "tea ball", she has always
considered it like a brand name.

Kuri