I've been throwing away GOOD TEA. Did I miss something in the FAQ? I must
have, 'cause I had no idea you could steep Yin Hao more than once. Now I
discover that if I boil the water and let sit to cool for 5-6 minutes (on a
different burner) and do my first steep for 3 minutes, I can set the tea
leaves aside and do a second steep for 5-6 minutes with boiling water.
Tastes just as good as the first steep. Wow. I guess even the totally
ignorant can learn something every now and then.

Question for the group: I saw a tin of tea at the local Chinese grocery that
identified itself as Ti Kuan Yin (I think.) The lady there said that tin
was the best of that type of tea. What is this tea like? I am in love with
Yin Hao, but not too narrow-minded to wonder about other teas. Life is an
experiment.

Thanks,

Dave

howlerman wrote:
> Boiling water drives off
> the dissolved oxygen and it's that oxygen that aids brewing and gives the
> tea its "brightness".

Love to see even a hint of data to support the latter oft-quoted but
chemically implausible assertion.

-DM

howlerman wrote:
> Boiling water drives off
> the dissolved oxygen and it's that oxygen that aids brewing and gives the
> tea its "brightness".

Love to see even a hint of data to support the latter oft-quoted but
chemically implausible assertion.

-DM

howlerman wrote:
> Boiling water drives off
> the dissolved oxygen and it's that oxygen that aids brewing and gives the
> tea its "brightness".

Love to see even a hint of data to support the latter oft-quoted but
chemically implausible assertion.

-DM

I have read some research into the effect of oxygen on tea infusion and
tomorrow I'll look up the references for you.

In the meantime you may like to try a subjective test. Boil some water and
let it cool. Pour into a glass. Pour another glass of freshly drawn cold
water. Which tastes better? Ask yourself why there's a difference ...

howlerman

"Dog Ma 1" (reply w/o spam)> wrote in message
...
> howlerman wrote:
>> Boiling water drives off
>> the dissolved oxygen and it's that oxygen that aids brewing and gives the
>> tea its "brightness".
>
> Love to see even a hint of data to support the latter oft-quoted but
> chemically implausible assertion.
>
> -DM
>
>

Well I promised a longer reply, so here it is. Apart from the subjective
tests you can do yourself, there is a wealth of knowledge available to you
from the tea industry (not forgetting thousands of years of Chinese tea
knowledge and hundreds of years of developed tea culture). Some may not know
why tea tastes better brewed in a particular way, but their palates and
noses (much more acute than ours) tell them what works.

This is no different than that other great field of part science / part art
that is food. Noone has to understand the chemical and physical processes of
cooking to know what works. It's not necessary to understand the
interactions between rosemary and lamb to know that the combination is
greater than the sum of the parts, or to know the processes that cause fish
to be "cooked" by lemon juice. Generations of chefs find out what works by
repeated trying (and often failing) to make better tasting food and we all
benefit from their example.

The ancient great tea masters had no idea that water contains dissolved
oxygen, but they did know that water has a huge effect on the tea. Not too
surprising - tea is mostly water after all. Probably the greatest of them
all, Lu Yu, was so aware of the importance of water that a good chunk of the
Cha Jing is devoted to it and a later work was entirely about water sources.
It was his efforts that gave us the the first hints of how to prepare tea
properly.

Turning to the modern scientific evidence, there are plenty of scientists
interested in the health benefits of tea and the effect of active
ingredients, but the actual brewing process has been largely left to the
artists. Probably the most committed has been Dr Andrew Stapley, a chemical
engineer and member of the Institute of Food Science and Technology,
formerly of Cambridge and Birmingham and now a lecturer at Loughborough
University. His paper, ''Modelling the kinetics of tea and coffee infusion''
published in the Journal of the Science of Food and Agriculture, 8214, 2002,
1661-1671, ISSN 0022-5142, deals with many aspects of making a decent brew.
There's much about the great British "milk in first or last" debate, but
also the part played by oxygenated water. His paper was announced by the
Royal Society of Chemistry (http://www.rsc.org/) and you can download the
bullet points from the press release at
http://www.rsc.org/pdf/pressoffice/2003/tea.pdf. If you'd like to get hold
of the original paper try Loughborough Department of Chemical Engineering at
http://www.lboro.ac.uk/departments/cg/

Ultimately tea drinking is about pleasure and taking the time to contemplate
and no amount of scientific analysis will add to your enjoyment.

howler "don't boil the water" man

"Dog Ma 1" (reply w/o spam)> wrote in message
...
> howlerman wrote:
>> Boiling water drives off
>> the dissolved oxygen and it's that oxygen that aids brewing and gives the
>> tea its "brightness".
>
> Love to see even a hint of data to support the latter oft-quoted but
> chemically implausible assertion.
>
> -DM
>
>

Oxygen starts to come out of solution around 160F when bubbles start to
form at the bottom of the pot as nucleation sites for boiling. The
boiling itself scrubs the water of dissolved oxygen while decreasing its
solubility.

I believe there is some credibility to the claim that boiling and
cooling will result in water that has substantially less oxygen, unless
the water is agitated in a way to reintroduce it. What effect this has
on the flavor, I don't know.

howlerman wrote:
> I have read some research into the effect of oxygen on tea infusion and
> tomorrow I'll look up the references for you.
>
> In the meantime you may like to try a subjective test. Boil some water and
> let it cool. Pour into a glass. Pour another glass of freshly drawn cold
> water. Which tastes better? Ask yourself why there's a difference ...
>
> howlerman
>
> "Dog Ma 1" (reply w/o spam)> wrote in message
> ...
>
>>howlerman wrote:
>>
>>>Boiling water drives off
>>>the dissolved oxygen and it's that oxygen that aids brewing and gives the
>>>tea its "brightness".
>>
>>Love to see even a hint of data to support the latter oft-quoted but
>>chemically implausible assertion.
>>
>>-DM
>>
>>
>
>
>

Oxygen starts to come out of solution around 160F when bubbles start to
form at the bottom of the pot as nucleation sites for boiling. The
boiling itself scrubs the water of dissolved oxygen while decreasing its
solubility.

I believe there is some credibility to the claim that boiling and
cooling will result in water that has substantially less oxygen, unless
the water is agitated in a way to reintroduce it. What effect this has
on the flavor, I don't know.

howlerman wrote:
> I have read some research into the effect of oxygen on tea infusion and
> tomorrow I'll look up the references for you.
>
> In the meantime you may like to try a subjective test. Boil some water and
> let it cool. Pour into a glass. Pour another glass of freshly drawn cold
> water. Which tastes better? Ask yourself why there's a difference ...
>
> howlerman
>
> "Dog Ma 1" (reply w/o spam)> wrote in message
> ...
>
>>howlerman wrote:
>>
>>>Boiling water drives off
>>>the dissolved oxygen and it's that oxygen that aids brewing and gives the
>>>tea its "brightness".
>>
>>Love to see even a hint of data to support the latter oft-quoted but
>>chemically implausible assertion.
>>
>>-DM
>>
>>
>
>
>

11/13/04


snip

>...Probably the greatest of them
> all, Lu Yu, was so aware of the importance of water that a good chunk of the
> Cha Jing is devoted to it and a later work was entirely about water sources.
> It was his efforts that gave us the the first hints of how to prepare tea
> properly.

"Properly" is a relative term, or should be. And, as I'd thought you knew,
Lu Yu got his material from his wife, who put onions in his tea.

[snipped stuff about modern chemistry]

> Ultimately tea drinking is about pleasure and taking the time to contemplate
> and no amount of scientific analysis will add to your enjoyment.

Ugh, have to disagree here. How we derive our pleasures is highly
individual. Who's to say that intellectual exploration -- scientific
exploration -- isn't a large part of the pleasure of tea for those for whom
science is a pleasure? What adds to one's enjoyment is up to one.
>
> howler "don't boil the water" man

I never boil the water for I'm a great believer in the oxigen theory.
Actually, having never seen it, I do have my doubts, but that's the other
side of faith. Don't believe me? Ask Saint John of The Cross.

Enough.

Michael

11/13/04


snip

>...Probably the greatest of them
> all, Lu Yu, was so aware of the importance of water that a good chunk of the
> Cha Jing is devoted to it and a later work was entirely about water sources.
> It was his efforts that gave us the the first hints of how to prepare tea
> properly.

"Properly" is a relative term, or should be. And, as I'd thought you knew,
Lu Yu got his material from his wife, who put onions in his tea.

[snipped stuff about modern chemistry]

> Ultimately tea drinking is about pleasure and taking the time to contemplate
> and no amount of scientific analysis will add to your enjoyment.

Ugh, have to disagree here. How we derive our pleasures is highly
individual. Who's to say that intellectual exploration -- scientific
exploration -- isn't a large part of the pleasure of tea for those for whom
science is a pleasure? What adds to one's enjoyment is up to one.
>
> howler "don't boil the water" man

I never boil the water for I'm a great believer in the oxigen theory.
Actually, having never seen it, I do have my doubts, but that's the other
side of faith. Don't believe me? Ask Saint John of The Cross.

Enough.

Michael