I had an enlightening discussion last weekend. I had set out to buy a
new Yixing-teapot. The salesperson of the teashop told me that the
ressources of superior Yixing-clay have been totally depleted for
decades now. New Yixing-teapots are in fact ordinary clay ones.
Therefore, the price difference with e.g. Taiwanese teapots would not
be justified.

I believe the person to be totally trustworthy: I have bought exquisite
Oolong teas from her shop a dozen of times and have never felt
deceived.

Are there people out there who have heard similar stories?

Cheers,
Erwin

2/7/05


> I had an enlightening discussion last weekend. I had set out to buy a
> new Yixing-teapot. The salesperson of the teashop told me that the
> ressources of superior Yixing-clay have been totally depleted for
> decades now. New Yixing-teapots are in fact ordinary clay ones.
> Therefore, the price difference with e.g. Taiwanese teapots would not
> be justified.
>
> I believe the person to be totally trustworthy: I have bought exquisite
> Oolong teas from her shop a dozen of times and have never felt
> deceived.
>
> Are there people out there who have heard similar stories?
>
> Cheers,
> Erwin
>

Erwin,

I've heard so many different and conflicting stories that I'm thoroughly
confused. Logic, and what I know about clay, tells me that there is probably
a good bit of excellent YiXing clay at least stored away and available to
potters, but most likely for a price. Beyond that, I work with vendors I
trust and some I trust thoroughly.

Michael

I haven't seen any indication of Yixing clay shortage. There is cheap
Yixing and expensive Yixing. The factory molds are cheap the hand made
expensive. My local art museum sells authentic handmade Yixing. I was
there a month ago and the prices were around $50 for a purple theme
stylized 100ml pot. If you're not particular about the color you can
find them in the Chinese tourist shops much cheaper. I buy loose
semi-precious stones and part of the pitch you learn to ignore is the
perceived rarity. If someone is steering you to something more
expensive because of the rarity just walk away. Google this group on
what you should look for in Yixing. I prefer the fit,finish,ring of
the lid test.

Jim

eRwin wrote:
> I had an enlightening discussion last weekend. I had set out to buy a
> new Yixing-teapot. The salesperson of the teashop told me that the
> ressources of superior Yixing-clay have been totally depleted for
> decades now. New Yixing-teapots are in fact ordinary clay ones.
> Therefore, the price difference with e.g. Taiwanese teapots would not
> be justified.
>
> I believe the person to be totally trustworthy: I have bought
exquisite
> Oolong teas from her shop a dozen of times and have never felt
> deceived.
>
> Are there people out there who have heard similar stories?
>
> Cheers,
> Erwin

The Freer/Sackler Smithsonian Museum web site says:

"During the sixteenth century, in the town of Yixing, in the Jiangsu
province of China, potters began to attract considerable attention for their
reddish brown, unglazed stonewares, especially the small teapots. Decoration
on Yixing ware is usually incised, stamped, carved in low relief, or built
up with layers of slip (liquid clay)."

As they say, POTTERS began attracting attention, not clay type. The quality
and beauty of a yixing pot is what attracts attention, not some magical
property in the clay. Considering mass-produced teapots go for $20-$30, is
$50 too much to spend for a good teapot? I don't think so. Is $500 to much
to spend on a good teapot? Probably. You can get high quality 'yixing'
teapots for under $60, and that's about the maximum I would spend on one.

Plus, I just got a quality yixing pot. The clay is a beautiful red, it's
very hard, it rings when I tap it, it absorbs the flavor of my pu-er. It's
obviously high quality. What more does one need to have?




"eRwin" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> I had an enlightening discussion last weekend. I had set out to buy a
> new Yixing-teapot. The salesperson of the teashop told me that the
> ressources of superior Yixing-clay have been totally depleted for
> decades now. New Yixing-teapots are in fact ordinary clay ones.
> Therefore, the price difference with e.g. Taiwanese teapots would not
> be justified.
>
> I believe the person to be totally trustworthy: I have bought exquisite
> Oolong teas from her shop a dozen of times and have never felt
> deceived.
>
> Are there people out there who have heard similar stories?
>
> Cheers,
> Erwin
>

"eRwin" > wrote in message


> Therefore, the price difference with e.g. Taiwanese teapots would not
> be justified.

Where have you seen a difference ? At equal quality of design, they usually
are in the same range of price. But, you get a larger choice in Mainland
teapots than in Taiwanese ones.

Kuri

> As they say, POTTERS began attracting attention, not clay type. The
quality
> and beauty of a yixing pot is what attracts attention, not some
magical
> property in the clay.

I beg to differ. For me, the only thing that would matter in the
selection of a teapot, is the quality of the clay (off course: the pot
should pour perfectly and the lid should fit the pot evenly - I
consider these to be a priori criteria). As to the design, I couldn't
care less.
One of the main qualities of good clay would be the degree of
micro-porousness, so as to effectively soak in the flavours of the
specific tea to be brewed in the pot.

While I have an array of Taiwanese pots (exactly 40euro's each) at hand
for my oolongs, I was convinced that Yixing-clay would be superior in
quality, which appearantly is not the case.

Cheers,
Erwin




Considering mass-produced teapots go for $20-$30, is
> $50 too much to spend for a good teapot? I don't think so. Is $500
to much
> to spend on a good teapot? Probably. You can get high quality
'yixing'
> teapots for under $60, and that's about the maximum I would spend on
one.
>
> Plus, I just got a quality yixing pot. The clay is a beautiful red,
it's
> very hard, it rings when I tap it, it absorbs the flavor of my pu-er.
It's
> obviously high quality. What more does one need to have?
>
>
>
>
> "eRwin" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> > I had an enlightening discussion last weekend. I had set out to buy
a
> > new Yixing-teapot. The salesperson of the teashop told me that the
> > ressources of superior Yixing-clay have been totally depleted for
> > decades now. New Yixing-teapots are in fact ordinary clay ones.
> > Therefore, the price difference with e.g. Taiwanese teapots would
not
> > be justified.
> >
> > I believe the person to be totally trustworthy: I have bought
exquisite
> > Oolong teas from her shop a dozen of times and have never felt
> > deceived.
> >
> > Are there people out there who have heard similar stories?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Erwin
> >

well, if all you care about is clay "quality" then I'm afraid you're going
to be sorely disappointed. The difference between "high" quality clay and
"average" quality clay ain't all that much these days. ALL unglazed clay
pots have "micro-porousness," as you call it. In fact, anything made of any
clay anywhere ever has "micro-porousness." That's what clay is. All modern
first- and second-world slip-molded pots are going to have almost exactly
the same clay quality, no matter what you pay for them. 100 years ago,
sure, there was some bad clay. These days, refinement and processing assure
smooth, quality clay at very low prices. So if, in your myopic zeal, you're
only looking for "high-quality" clay then you can find what you're looking
for at the local ten-cent store, if you can find a pot there that's
unglazed.

I, personally, am interested in the aesthetic beauty and enjoyment that
comes from using a well designed and well built hand-made (or mostly
hand-made) pot. The color, the design, the feel of the pot are very
important for that. The clay itself is a very minor point.




"eRwin" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> > As they say, POTTERS began attracting attention, not clay type. The
> quality
> > and beauty of a yixing pot is what attracts attention, not some
> magical
> > property in the clay.
>
> I beg to differ. For me, the only thing that would matter in the
> selection of a teapot, is the quality of the clay (off course: the pot
> should pour perfectly and the lid should fit the pot evenly - I
> consider these to be a priori criteria). As to the design, I couldn't
> care less.
> One of the main qualities of good clay would be the degree of
> micro-porousness, so as to effectively soak in the flavours of the
> specific tea to be brewed in the pot.
>
> While I have an array of Taiwanese pots (exactly 40euro's each) at hand
> for my oolongs, I was convinced that Yixing-clay would be superior in
> quality, which appearantly is not the case.
>
> Cheers,
> Erwin
>
>
>
>
> Considering mass-produced teapots go for $20-$30, is
> > $50 too much to spend for a good teapot? I don't think so. Is $500
> to much
> > to spend on a good teapot? Probably. You can get high quality
> 'yixing'
> > teapots for under $60, and that's about the maximum I would spend on
> one.
> >
> > Plus, I just got a quality yixing pot. The clay is a beautiful red,
> it's
> > very hard, it rings when I tap it, it absorbs the flavor of my pu-er.
> It's
> > obviously high quality. What more does one need to have?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "eRwin" > wrote in message
> > ups.com...
> > > I had an enlightening discussion last weekend. I had set out to buy
> a
> > > new Yixing-teapot. The salesperson of the teashop told me that the
> > > ressources of superior Yixing-clay have been totally depleted for
> > > decades now. New Yixing-teapots are in fact ordinary clay ones.
> > > Therefore, the price difference with e.g. Taiwanese teapots would
> not
> > > be justified.
> > >
> > > I believe the person to be totally trustworthy: I have bought
> exquisite
> > > Oolong teas from her shop a dozen of times and have never felt
> > > deceived.
> > >
> > > Are there people out there who have heard similar stories?
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Erwin
> > >
>

"eRwin" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> I had an enlightening discussion last weekend. I had set out to buy a
> new Yixing-teapot. The salesperson of the teashop told me that the
> ressources of superior Yixing-clay have been totally depleted for
> decades now. New Yixing-teapots are in fact ordinary clay ones.
> Therefore, the price difference with e.g. Taiwanese teapots would not
> be justified.
>
> I believe the person to be totally trustworthy: I have bought exquisite
> Oolong teas from her shop a dozen of times and have never felt
> deceived.
>
> Are there people out there who have heard similar stories?

No. Well, not exactly.

There are three varieties of Yixing clay and while the Zhu Ni, the vermilion
red, has been depleted, there are still the Duan Ni/Banshanlu Ni (yellow,
ranging from creamy white to yellow-brown) and the Zisha (purple/bluish to
red-brown) which is reputed to be the best for teapots.

There are many knock-offs representing themselves to be Yixing that have
similar forms and designs w/o the real clay. However, authentic Yixing pots
are still available.

Buyer beware.

--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

"eRwin" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> While I have an array of Taiwanese pots (exactly 40euro's each) at hand
> for my oolongs, I was convinced that Yixing-clay would be superior in
> quality, which appearantly is not the case.

What made you change your mind? Yixing clay has properties that many others
still hold in the highest esteem such as its unique chemical composition
(high iron content, kaolin, mica, quartz), general sturdiness and ability to
withstand high temperatures w/o cracking, good heat- and flavor-retention,
low thermal conductivity, rate of water absorption, etc.

Dude, go for it!

--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

"Bluesea" > wrote in message
...
>
> There are three varieties of Yixing clay and while the Zhu Ni, the
vermilion
> red, has been depleted, there are still the Duan Ni/Banshanlu Ni (yellow,
> ranging from creamy white to yellow-brown) and the Zisha (purple/bluish to
> red-brown) which is reputed to be the best for teapots.

I've also heard that there are green and black, but I don't know to which
variety of Yixing clay to attribute them.

--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

Thanks for the clarifying answer!

Cheers,
Erwin



Bluesea wrote:
> "eRwin" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> > I had an enlightening discussion last weekend. I had set out to buy
a
> > new Yixing-teapot. The salesperson of the teashop told me that the
> > ressources of superior Yixing-clay have been totally depleted for
> > decades now. New Yixing-teapots are in fact ordinary clay ones.
> > Therefore, the price difference with e.g. Taiwanese teapots would
not
> > be justified.
> >
> > I believe the person to be totally trustworthy: I have bought
exquisite
> > Oolong teas from her shop a dozen of times and have never felt
> > deceived.
> >
> > Are there people out there who have heard similar stories?
>
> No. Well, not exactly.
>
> There are three varieties of Yixing clay and while the Zhu Ni, the
vermilion
> red, has been depleted, there are still the Duan Ni/Banshanlu Ni
(yellow,
> ranging from creamy white to yellow-brown) and the Zisha
(purple/bluish to
> red-brown) which is reputed to be the best for teapots.
>
> There are many knock-offs representing themselves to be Yixing that
have
> similar forms and designs w/o the real clay. However, authentic
Yixing pots
> are still available.
>
> Buyer beware.
>
> --
> ~~Bluesea~~
> Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
> Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

Wow, this is getting good. For my part, I know so little about the
subtleties of YiXing clays, but my instincts go with Falky foo, although who
knows where the truth lies. When I choose a teapot, it has to feel right to
my hand and eye and to the tea it will drink. So, the aesthetics of the pot
are important to me. I think the potter's hand is *very* important, so
important that I would accept a lesser clay from a potter whose work I
especially like.

Michael

Falky /7/05


> well, if all you care about is clay "quality" then I'm afraid you're going
> to be sorely disappointed. The difference between "high" quality clay and
> "average" quality clay ain't all that much these days. ALL unglazed clay
> pots have "micro-porousness," as you call it. In fact, anything made of any
> clay anywhere ever has "micro-porousness." That's what clay is. All modern
> first- and second-world slip-molded pots are going to have almost exactly
> the same clay quality, no matter what you pay for them. 100 years ago,
> sure, there was some bad clay. These days, refinement and processing assure
> smooth, quality clay at very low prices. So if, in your myopic zeal, you're
> only looking for "high-quality" clay then you can find what you're looking
> for at the local ten-cent store, if you can find a pot there that's
> unglazed.
>
> I, personally, am interested in the aesthetic beauty and enjoyment that
> comes from using a well designed and well built hand-made (or mostly
> hand-made) pot. The color, the design, the feel of the pot are very
> important for that. The clay itself is a very minor point.
>
>
>
>
> "eRwin" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>>> As they say, POTTERS began attracting attention, not clay type. The
>> quality
>>> and beauty of a yixing pot is what attracts attention, not some
>> magical
>>> property in the clay.
>>
>> I beg to differ. For me, the only thing that would matter in the
>> selection of a teapot, is the quality of the clay (off course: the pot
>> should pour perfectly and the lid should fit the pot evenly - I
>> consider these to be a priori criteria). As to the design, I couldn't
>> care less.
>> One of the main qualities of good clay would be the degree of
>> micro-porousness, so as to effectively soak in the flavours of the
>> specific tea to be brewed in the pot.
>>
>> While I have an array of Taiwanese pots (exactly 40euro's each) at hand
>> for my oolongs, I was convinced that Yixing-clay would be superior in
>> quality, which appearantly is not the case.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Erwin