It's generally accepted amongst knowledgeable tea drinkers that one should
use bottled water for tea if one's regular tap water doesn't taste good.
Mine doesn't and since I'm getting tired of the expense and effort required
to keep my tea habit in decent-tasting water, I've been looking at filtering
systems and read in the r.f.d.t. FAQ that bottled water is preferred over
filtered water unless it's drawn and immediately put on to boil and not left
sitting in a filtering carafe or pitcher.

My question is: What's the difference? Don't spring waters pass through
some sort of filtration or some sort of process that removes oxygen as much
as home filtering does before they're bottled? Even if not, both bottle and
carafe are made of plastic and will affect the taste depending on the
quality of plastic used and bottled water sits in it's plastic bottle a
*whole* lot longer than home-filtered water sits in a pitcher waiting to be
used.

--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

Bluesea wrote:
> My question is: What's the difference? Don't spring waters pass
through
> some sort of filtration or some sort of process that removes oxygen
as much
> as home filtering does before they're bottled? Even if not, both
bottle and
> carafe are made of plastic and will affect the taste depending on the
> quality of plastic used and bottled water sits in it's plastic bottle
a
> *whole* lot longer than home-filtered water sits in a pitcher waiting
to be
> used.
>
> --
> ~~Bluesea~~
> Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
> Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

As far as I know, the reason to use bottled spring water isn't the
oxygen content, but rather the mineral content. Some say it enhances
the flavor of the tea. Me personally? I'm happy with a Brita filter on
my faucet, which is relatively cheap when you think about how much good
water you get from each filter.

"Josh" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Bluesea wrote:
> > My question is: What's the difference? Don't spring waters pass
> through
> > some sort of filtration or some sort of process that removes oxygen
> as much
> > as home filtering does before they're bottled? Even if not, both
> bottle and
> > carafe are made of plastic and will affect the taste depending on the
> > quality of plastic used and bottled water sits in it's plastic bottle
> a
> > *whole* lot longer than home-filtered water sits in a pitcher waiting
> to be
> > used.
>
> As far as I know, the reason to use bottled spring water isn't the
> oxygen content, but rather the mineral content. Some say it enhances
> the flavor of the tea.

That, too, see: http://pages.ripco.net/~c4ha2na9/tea/faq.html#2.2.1.

PUR's 3rd stage is a pass through minerals to improve taste - I guess that's
a recent development.

> Me personally? I'm happy with a Brita filter on
> my faucet, which is relatively cheap when you think about how much good
> water you get from each filter.

Yes, the price of filtered water is much better than that of bottled and
that's why I need a good reason to continue the expense.

Sometimes, we don't get what we pay for.


--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

Bluesea wrote:
>
> Yes, the price of filtered water is much better than that of bottled
and
> that's why I need a good reason to continue the expense.
>
> Sometimes, we don't get what we pay for.


That's for sure, but really I've never tried a variety of bottled
waters with my tea so if there is one out there that makes my tea
better, I haven't tried it yet. Another strike against bottled water
for me is that in every one I've tasted I can definitely taste the
plastic in it, so much so that it makes me nauseous. But who knows,
maybe I had what would be considered bad bottled water. Looking forward
to hearing what others have to say on the subject.

Bluesea wrote:
> My question is: What's the difference? Don't spring waters pass through
> some sort of filtration or some sort of process that removes oxygen as much
> as home filtering does before they're bottled? Even if not, both bottle and
> carafe are made of plastic and will affect the taste depending on the
> quality of plastic used and bottled water sits in it's plastic bottle a
> *whole* lot longer than home-filtered water sits in a pitcher waiting to be
> used.
>

I think as home filtration technologies get better, the gap between
bottled and filtered tap narrows. Still, the use of tap water as a
general guideline is difficult to advise because the quality of the
water largely depends on what particular processing has been done on it
in your area. For example, when I lived in Orlando, the tap had a
really nasty egg smell to it which was only partly attenuated by my
Brita carbon filter.

Still, I think your point is a good one, that filtered tap is an option
worth exploring, since it is potentially much cheaper, and if you are
lucky, even better than the majority of bottled water available out there.

Steve

"Bluesea" > wrote in message

> It's generally accepted amongst knowledgeable tea drinkers that one should
> use bottled water for tea if one's regular tap water doesn't taste good.
....
> in the r.f.d.t. FAQ that bottled water is preferred over
> filtered water unless it's drawn and immediately put on to boil and not
left
> sitting in a filtering carafe or pitcher.

I can use the tap water nearly imediatly as it passes through the tap filter
as fast as usual, and it takes 2 minutes to get it though the Brita. It's
not really left sitting.

> Even if not, both bottle and
> carafe are made of plastic and will affect the taste depending on the
> quality of plastic used and bottled water sits in it's plastic bottle a
> *whole* lot longer than home-filtered water sits in a pitcher waiting to
be
> used.

I agree if it's a plastic bottle, I find the water smells of plastic when
you open it, so when I have no other choice (than bottled water) I pour the
water in a glass half an hour before drinking it. Mineral water in glass
bottle is great, but not very convenient to get at home.
The Brita pitcher doesn't give taste to the water. You can also make your
own : place a carbon (I get them at the grocer's in Japan and was told
aquarium shops retailed them in other countries) in a glass pitcher.
For the oxygenation, isn't that possible to do it by whipping the water or
pouring it back and forth a few times
(pouring from very high like when serving mint tea) before boiling it ?

Kuri

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 02:45:15 -0600, Bluesea wrote:

> PUR's 3rd stage is a pass through minerals to improve taste - I guess that's
> a recent development.

I'm not sure that's an improvement. I filter my water to REMOVE the
excess minerals that dissolve from the nasty old pipework.

To be perfectly honest, I've gotten downright tasty cups of tea using
distilled water. (Camping with friends, the gal who always agreed to
bring the bottled water always bought distilled).
--
Derek

It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a
warning to others.

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 20:41:21 +0900
"kuri" > wrote:

> For the oxygenation, isn't that possible to do it by whipping the water
> or pouring it back and forth a few times
> (pouring from very high like when serving mint tea) before boiling it ?


Most experienced aquarists would probably argue that whipping the water
would actually reduce the amount of oxygen in the water, by forcing out
what is already inside it.

The apparatus that you see creating a constant stream of tiny air
bubbles in many aquariums is really more of an entertainment device than
anything else. Experiments in germany found that passing bubbles through
water caused no appreciable increase in oxygenation except where the
bubbles broke on the surface.

The currently accepted dogma on oxygenation among aquarists is that
surface area and the relentless forces of gravity and atmospheric pressure
are the only reliable means of getting oxygen into the water so that your
fish may live and breathe.

Agitation mainly serves to release gasses from water, as evidenced by
the bubbles coughed up by my sealed canister filtration system. The water
comes from the bottom of the tank and bubbles form around the impeller
inside the canister. Had to get there somehow.

The 'air stone' type bubbler achieves an increase in surface area by
breaking bubbles on the surface - this forces some water up and some down
and thus creates much more surface area.

Unfortunately, water at a given temperature can only absorb a particular
amount of oxygen, and the bubbler does very little to circulate new water
to the surface, unless you are also using some sort of chimney system, and
so called "riser tubes" have a tendency to be annoyingly loud.

Thus, the additional function of pump-type filters is to circulate water
to the surface of the aquarium.

Now that you've got oxygen in the water, it turns out that the only
appreciable factor in maintaining oxygenation is temperature. The warmer
your water gets, the less oxygen it can absorb.


I bring all this up only because there has been a recent health fad with
regard to oxygenated water - and there are actually companies that will
sell you everything from "high oxygen" bottled water to little tablets that
are supposed to increase the oxygen in your own water to a $500 blender
that's supposed to somehow whip oxygen into your water, and it's all hooey.
Or, since this is a tea discussion, stuff & nonsense.

Oxygen in drinking and tea-making water is a matter of conjecture,
anecdotal evidence, fuzzy math, and hard-to-verify theories. Oxygenation in
an aquarium is a life & death problem, verifiable by the survival of your
pets.

As for myself, my drinking water is what they call "surface water" -
which means I'm literally drinking purified street runoff.

What i get from the tap has three things in it that make tea tricky
business.

1: Hydrocarbons and other petrochemicals

2: Aluminum sulfate (aka Alum) used as a precipitant by the water
company

3: A whole lot of calcium

Carbon filtration deals with most of the petrochemicals, but not all of
it.

For the aluminum sulfate (which is found in many municipal water
supplies), basically, for drinking water, my option is to let it stand. It
will eventually precipitate out. Over time it forms small, flat,
clear-white crystals on the bottom of my 'pur' dispenser. I'm not sure how
to describe it, but they really don't resemble mineral scale. The
distribution is far less regular, tending more toward individual spots of
crystallization.

For drinking water, I find that if i use a carbon filter on the tap, I
can still taste the bitterness of the aluminum sulfate and some of the
nastiness of the petrochemicals. So I no longer use a tap filter and
instead let my water run for a minute or so and then fill a 3 gallon pur
dispenser which sits in the fridge.

After about 8 hours in the fridge, what i get out of the pur dispenser
approaches the quality of the water that comes out of the tap at my parents
house, which gets it's water from a well cut into limestone.

I use this water to make my tea. I find it does a really decent job.
Much better, in fact, than the bottled water i use at work.

Theoretically, based on my experience as an aquarist, I'm going to guess
that the water from my fridge - which is almost cold enough to freeze - is
going to have more oxygen in it than it would if i'd let it sit on the
counter at room temperature.

However, ice cubes made from water that's been in my refrigerated
dispenser for a day or so are far more solid than ice cubes made from water
straight from the on-tap filter, indicating that the majority of gasses in
solution at the tap have since passed back out into the atmosphere.

There remains, of course, the boil.

It should be asked, if oxygen in the water is a major factor in tea
steeping, how much oxygen stays in the water after being brought to a boil.

As far as minerals are concerned, water that has a lot of stuff in
solution has less capacity as a solvent - it's going to draw less out of
your leaves. Boiling does cause calcium for example to precipitate out, as
evidenced by the scale buildup in your kettle.

There is some interesting reading on the subject of boiled vs. not
boiled water in literature about russian tea making traditions, but I'm
basically done here.

>As far as I know, the reason to use bottled spring water isn't the
>oxygen content, but rather the mineral content. Some say it enhances
>the flavor of the tea.

The problem is you don;'t know -what- is in the bottled water. And how long
has it been sitting on the shelf? Why do we pay so much for stale old water
tainted with plastic? I never touch bottled water, it's not particularly
safe.

Cheers

Blippie
--
Ten minutes of this rain will do more good in half an hour than a fortnight
of ordinary rain in a month.

"Eric Jorgensen" > wrote in message


> The apparatus that you see creating a constant stream of tiny air
> bubbles in many aquariums is really more of an entertainment device than
> anything else. Experiments in germany found that passing bubbles through
> water caused no appreciable increase in oxygenation except where the
> bubbles broke on the surface.

Thanks for the long explanation. I have never tried to oxygenate water, so
now I won't lost my time at that sport.

> Oxygenation in
> an aquarium is a life & death problem, verifiable by the survival of your
> pets.

Many years ago, I've had a gold fish during nearly a year, in a sort of
salad bowl full of tap water (changed 1 time a week). It died a week-end I
was away. So I've taken my bowl to the next fish shop to get a new friend
and they said : "No fish can survive more than 12 hours in that, you need a
bigger aquarium, a bubble machine, a filter, never use our local tap water
that is too this and too that, etc...". They had nothing I could afford with
my 2$ per week of pocket money.

Kuri

"Bluesea" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Josh" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > Bluesea wrote:
> > > My question is: What's the difference? Don't spring waters pass
> > through
> > > some sort of filtration or some sort of process that removes oxygen
> > as much
> > > as home filtering does before they're bottled? Even if not, both
> > bottle and
> > > carafe are made of plastic and will affect the taste depending on the
> > > quality of plastic used and bottled water sits in it's plastic bottle
> > a
> > > *whole* lot longer than home-filtered water sits in a pitcher waiting
> > to be
> > > used.
> >
> > As far as I know, the reason to use bottled spring water isn't the
> > oxygen content, but rather the mineral content. Some say it enhances
> > the flavor of the tea.
>
> That, too, see: http://pages.ripco.net/~c4ha2na9/tea/faq.html#2.2.1.
>
> PUR's 3rd stage is a pass through minerals to improve taste - I guess
that's
> a recent development.
>
> > Me personally? I'm happy with a Brita filter on
> > my faucet, which is relatively cheap when you think about how much good
> > water you get from each filter.
>
> Yes, the price of filtered water is much better than that of bottled and
> that's why I need a good reason to continue the expense.
>
> Sometimes, we don't get what we pay for.
>
My local market has the equivalent of a big fancy Brita in the store. It's
supplied with tap water, but then is run through sediment/activated
charcoal/reverse-osmosis filters. The result is "almost" distilled, because
the RO filter removes most of the minerals. The best part is that you bring
your own jugs, so the water never stands around (in my case) more than a
week. At $0.39/gallon, it's a steal.

I use it for all my cooking, drinking and tea. I've tried bottled spring
water for tea, and I can't tell the difference; in fact, for some teas I
think it's better.

Regards,
Dean

"Derek" > wrote in message ...
> On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 02:45:15 -0600, Bluesea wrote:
>
> > PUR's 3rd stage is a pass through minerals to improve taste - I guess
that's
> > a recent development.
>
> I'm not sure that's an improvement. I filter my water to REMOVE the
> excess minerals that dissolve from the nasty old pipework.

Since it's to improve taste, they pro'lly only use the good-tasting ones.

Their 2-stage filter doesn't have the minerals and either filter fits into
any of their faucet-mount products so people may choose whichever suits
their taste.

> To be perfectly honest, I've gotten downright tasty cups of tea using
> distilled water. (Camping with friends, the gal who always agreed to
> bring the bottled water always bought distilled).

Yes, I've found that distilled water tends to make a
lighter/cleaner-tasting, more refreshing tea.

> It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a
> warning to others.

<sigh> If they'd only heed the warning!

--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

"Eric Jorgensen" > wrote in message
news:20050210090631.57918d25@wafer...
<snipped interesting stuff>
> For drinking water, I find that if i use a carbon filter on the tap, I
> can still taste the bitterness of the aluminum sulfate and some of the
> nastiness of the petrochemicals. So I no longer use a tap filter and
> instead let my water run for a minute or so and then fill a 3 gallon pur
> dispenser which sits in the fridge.
>
> After about 8 hours in the fridge, what i get out of the pur dispenser
> approaches the quality of the water that comes out of the tap at my
parents
> house, which gets it's water from a well cut into limestone.
>
> I use this water to make my tea. I find it does a really decent job.
> Much better, in fact, than the bottled water i use at work.

Good to know and you don't have to fiddle w/ attaching a faucet-mount and
messing w/ leaks.

> There remains, of course, the boil.
>
> It should be asked, if oxygen in the water is a major factor in tea
> steeping, how much oxygen stays in the water after being brought to a
boil.

Isn't that why we're not supposed to boil for long, but are to pour after a
brief boil?

> As far as minerals are concerned, water that has a lot of stuff in
> solution has less capacity as a solvent - it's going to draw less out of
> your leaves. Boiling does cause calcium for example to precipitate out, as
> evidenced by the scale buildup in your kettle.

That means distilled water draws more out of the leaf.

> There is some interesting reading on the subject of boiled vs. not
> boiled water in literature about russian tea making traditions, but I'm
> basically done here.

Aw, shucks. Oh, well, there's always Google.

Thanks for your discourse.


--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

[newsgroups reset]

"Blippie" <alt.aviation.roswell.wannabe.wannabe.wannabe> wrote in message
...
>
> The problem is you don;'t know -what- is in the bottled water.

True.

> And how long has it been sitting on the shelf?

If we knew how they gauge the expiration date, we'd be able to tell.

> Why do we pay so much for stale old water tainted with plastic?

Successful advertising campaigns?

> I never touch bottled water, it's not particularly safe.

Not even distilled? At least, with that, we know that it's *only* water
(plus whatever makes it taste like the bottle it's in, if it does taste like
plastic).

--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

"Bluesea" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Blippie" <alt.aviation.roswell.wannabe.wannabe.wannabe> wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > The problem is you don;'t know -what- is in the bottled water.
>
> True.

According to the label on my bottles, it's whatever's in the Ft. Worth
municipal water supply.

> > And how long has it been sitting on the shelf?
>
> If we knew how they gauge the expiration date, we'd be able to tell.

I just checked and my bottles have a PKD date...which was two days *after* I
bought them. The EXP date is the year after the PKD date.

--
~~Bluesea~~ who will have to ask about that PKD date
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 00:22:56 -0600
"Bluesea" > wrote:

>
> "Bluesea" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Blippie" <alt.aviation.roswell.wannabe.wannabe.wannabe> wrote in
> > message ...
> > >
> > > The problem is you don;'t know -what- is in the bottled water.
> >
> > True.
>
> According to the label on my bottles, it's whatever's in the Ft. Worth
> municipal water supply.
>
> > > And how long has it been sitting on the shelf?
> >
> > If we knew how they gauge the expiration date, we'd be able to tell.
>
> I just checked and my bottles have a PKD date...which was two days
> *after* I bought them. The EXP date is the year after the PKD date.


I used to work at a company that provided free soft drinks and bottled
water.

Initially, this was Evian. Nasty stuff, tastes brackish. It was pointed
out by several - including myself and a french engineer in the states on an
H1B visa - that importing water from france is absurd, and needlessly
expensive, and that this part of the beverage budget could be better spent.

So they started buying flats of Dasani from the coke distributor
instead. Dasani is reverse-osmosis water with a mineral syrup added. It's
literally just a different bottle of stuff at the bottling company, since
they are required by corporate to use RO water for everything.

Dasasni actually gives me heartburn, straight up. Something about the
mineral mix they're using Aint Right. I actually find it undrinkable unless
right on the edge of frozen.

I wondered out loud, if it might be a process issue. If, perhaps,
something was supposed to be allowed to precipitate, or out-gas, or
something.

One day i came in an found on my desk a sheet of paper with a Dasani
logo indicating something like "this product requires resting period of
three weeks" and bearing two dates, indicating that it had been delivered
more than two weeks ahead of schedule. Co-worker said it was wrapped inside
the top of the flats that were delivered that day, and he figured i'd be
curious.

The municipal water in that complex is so bad that it actually caused a
water purification system in the marketing department to rupture from
excess scale buildup after about a year of use. After that, nobody bothered
trying to drink the local water. It had been said that the water was so
hard you could chip a tooth on it. Any water fixture that wasn't
meticulously cared for got a thick crust of yellow scale after just a few
weeks.

"Eric Jorgensen" > wrote in message
news:20050211071130.2f48e8a7@wafer...
> On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 00:22:56 -0600
> "Bluesea" > wrote:
> >
> > "Bluesea" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "Blippie" <alt.aviation.roswell.wannabe.wannabe.wannabe> wrote in
> > > message ...
> > > >
> > > > And how long has it been sitting on the shelf?
> > >
> > > If we knew how they gauge the expiration date, we'd be able to tell.
> >
> > I just checked and my bottles have a PKD date...which was two days
> > *after* I bought them. The EXP date is the year after the PKD date.
>
> I used to work at a company that provided free soft drinks and bottled
> water.
>
> Initially, this was Evian. Nasty stuff, tastes brackish. It was pointed
> out by several - including myself and a french engineer in the states on
an
> H1B visa - that importing water from france is absurd, and needlessly
> expensive, and that this part of the beverage budget could be better
spent.
>
> So they started buying flats of Dasani from the coke distributor
> instead. Dasani is reverse-osmosis water with a mineral syrup added. It's
> literally just a different bottle of stuff at the bottling company, since
> they are required by corporate to use RO water for everything.
>
> Dasasni actually gives me heartburn, straight up. Something about the
> mineral mix they're using Aint Right. I actually find it undrinkable
unless
> right on the edge of frozen.
>
> I wondered out loud, if it might be a process issue. If, perhaps,
> something was supposed to be allowed to precipitate, or out-gas, or
> something.
>
> One day i came in an found on my desk a sheet of paper with a Dasani
> logo indicating something like "this product requires resting period of
> three weeks" and bearing two dates, indicating that it had been delivered
> more than two weeks ahead of schedule.

Dang! They never intended for people to have *fresh* water. I don't know
much about the science of things, so I can't help but wonder what in the
world did they do to the water that required it to sit for 3 whole weeks
before consumption.

> Co-worker said it was wrapped inside
> the top of the flats that were delivered that day, and he figured i'd be
> curious.

Yes!

> The municipal water in that complex is so bad that it actually caused a
> water purification system in the marketing department to rupture from
> excess scale buildup after about a year of use. After that, nobody
bothered
> trying to drink the local water. It had been said that the water was so
> hard you could chip a tooth on it. Any water fixture that wasn't
> meticulously cared for got a thick crust of yellow scale after just a few
> weeks.

May I ask where this was so I might avoid drinking the water should I ever
go there?

--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 23:31:33 -0600, Bluesea wrote:

> "Derek" > wrote in message ...
>> On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 02:45:15 -0600, Bluesea wrote:
>>
>>> PUR's 3rd stage is a pass through minerals to improve taste - I guess
> that's
>>> a recent development.
>>
>> I'm not sure that's an improvement. I filter my water to REMOVE the
>> excess minerals that dissolve from the nasty old pipework.
>
> Since it's to improve taste, they pro'lly only use the good-tasting ones.
>
> Their 2-stage filter doesn't have the minerals and either filter fits into
> any of their faucet-mount products so people may choose whichever suits
> their taste.

Very true. I use their "ultimate" filters in our sink. As I also drink
goodly amounts of ice water, I notice a distinct change in "lack of
flavor" when the water is filtered. And I mean that in the "it tastes
less like pipes" way.

>> To be perfectly honest, I've gotten downright tasty cups of tea using
>> distilled water. (Camping with friends, the gal who always agreed to
>> bring the bottled water always bought distilled).
>
> Yes, I've found that distilled water tends to make a
> lighter/cleaner-tasting, more refreshing tea.

Probably would make a very good iced white tea on a hot summer day.

/me stores that idea away for next summer.

>> It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a
>> warning to others.
>
> <sigh> If they'd only heed the warning!

LOL!

--
Derek

Some people dream of success, while other people live to crush those
dreams.

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 14:49:26 GMT
"Bluesea" > wrote:
> > One day i came in an found on my desk a sheet of paper with a Dasani
> > logo indicating something like "this product requires resting period of
> > three weeks" and bearing two dates, indicating that it had been
> > delivered more than two weeks ahead of schedule.
>
> Dang! They never intended for people to have *fresh* water. I don't know
> much about the science of things, so I can't help but wonder what in the
> world did they do to the water that required it to sit for 3 whole weeks
> before consumption.


Any number of reasons. My guess at the time was that the food scientists
who developed their 'flavor' figured that a certain percentage of the
minerals would deposit on the inside of the bottle, and calculated how long
it would take for the bottle to arrive at their desired concentration.

It could also be that they expected very slow chemical reactions to
occur over time. Or that the minerals are added to the bottle after the
water, just before the cap is installed, and they expect it to take time to
distribute evenly.

It's hard to think of reverse-osmosis purified water with mineral
sludge added as being "fresh" at any point in it's shelf life, but on the
other hand i guess nearly all the water on this planet is technically as
old as time itself, isn't it?

All I know for sure is that it's tough to find a bottled water that
tastes as good to me as what comes out of the tap at my parents house,
which is reputedly pumped from a spring up the mountain side, the mountain
being chiefly composed of limestone. Some significant portion of that
preference is probably because i grew up drinking it. A lot of this stuff
is subjective.


> > The municipal water in that complex is so bad that it actually
> > caused a
> > water purification system in the marketing department to rupture from
> > excess scale buildup after about a year of use. After that, nobody
> bothered
> > trying to drink the local water. It had been said that the water was so
> > hard you could chip a tooth on it. Any water fixture that wasn't
> > meticulously cared for got a thick crust of yellow scale after just a
> > few weeks.
>
> May I ask where this was so I might avoid drinking the water should I
> ever go there?


Lindon UT. It's not the worst I've had, the water out in Delta tasted
like someone had steeped cardboard in it. And i hear stories about
restaurants in some town around here that had to give up plastic pitchers
for glass after the plastic ones were stained green by something in the
water.

The drinking water in Utah is generally excellent, if you're close
enough to the mountains. Lindon is on a low spot at the north end of a
bench near the lake. I'm not sure exactly where their water comes from, but
it can't be anywhere good.

Much of Provo is literally drinking glacial spring water. Though in
fairness, in recent decades, there isn't much of a glacier.

Out here in Orem, on the high part of the same bench, with a river
between us and the mountains, the water typically has pretty questionable
origins (the EPA term is 'surface water'), but it's never been as fragrant
as what comes out of the tap in places like Antioch CA.

I agree; we recycle water.

Thanks for the reply .


--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

"Eric Jorgensen" > wrote in message
news:20050211084635.59648215@wafer...
> On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 14:49:26 GMT
> "Bluesea" > wrote:
> > > One day i came in an found on my desk a sheet of paper with a
Dasani
> > > logo indicating something like "this product requires resting period
of
> > > three weeks" and bearing two dates, indicating that it had been
> > > delivered more than two weeks ahead of schedule.
> >
> > Dang! They never intended for people to have *fresh* water. I don't know
> > much about the science of things, so I can't help but wonder what in the
> > world did they do to the water that required it to sit for 3 whole weeks
> > before consumption.
>
>
> Any number of reasons. My guess at the time was that the food
scientists
> who developed their 'flavor' figured that a certain percentage of the
> minerals would deposit on the inside of the bottle, and calculated how
long
> it would take for the bottle to arrive at their desired concentration.
>
> It could also be that they expected very slow chemical reactions to
> occur over time. Or that the minerals are added to the bottle after the
> water, just before the cap is installed, and they expect it to take time
to
> distribute evenly.
>
> It's hard to think of reverse-osmosis purified water with mineral
> sludge added as being "fresh" at any point in it's shelf life, but on the
> other hand i guess nearly all the water on this planet is technically as
> old as time itself, isn't it?
>
> All I know for sure is that it's tough to find a bottled water that
> tastes as good to me as what comes out of the tap at my parents house,
> which is reputedly pumped from a spring up the mountain side, the mountain
> being chiefly composed of limestone. Some significant portion of that
> preference is probably because i grew up drinking it. A lot of this stuff
> is subjective.
>
>
> > > The municipal water in that complex is so bad that it actually
> > > caused a
> > > water purification system in the marketing department to rupture from
> > > excess scale buildup after about a year of use. After that, nobody
> > bothered
> > > trying to drink the local water. It had been said that the water was
so
> > > hard you could chip a tooth on it. Any water fixture that wasn't
> > > meticulously cared for got a thick crust of yellow scale after just a
> > > few weeks.
> >
> > May I ask where this was so I might avoid drinking the water should I
> > ever go there?
>
>
> Lindon UT. It's not the worst I've had, the water out in Delta tasted
> like someone had steeped cardboard in it. And i hear stories about
> restaurants in some town around here that had to give up plastic pitchers
> for glass after the plastic ones were stained green by something in the
> water.
>
> The drinking water in Utah is generally excellent, if you're close
> enough to the mountains. Lindon is on a low spot at the north end of a
> bench near the lake. I'm not sure exactly where their water comes from,
but
> it can't be anywhere good.
>
> Much of Provo is literally drinking glacial spring water. Though in
> fairness, in recent decades, there isn't much of a glacier.
>
> Out here in Orem, on the high part of the same bench, with a river
> between us and the mountains, the water typically has pretty questionable
> origins (the EPA term is 'surface water'), but it's never been as fragrant
> as what comes out of the tap in places like Antioch CA.
>

"Derek" > wrote in message ...
> On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 23:31:33 -0600, Bluesea wrote:
>
> Very true. I use their "ultimate" filters in our sink. As I also drink
> goodly amounts of ice water, I notice a distinct change in "lack of
> flavor" when the water is filtered. And I mean that in the "it tastes
> less like pipes" way.

Oh, okay, you're already using the 3-stage filter.

> > Yes, I've found that distilled water tends to make a
> > lighter/cleaner-tasting, more refreshing tea.
>
> Probably would make a very good iced white tea on a hot summer day.
>
> /me stores that idea away for next summer.

Me, too!


--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

Some general comments on all of this:

1) I seem to remember reading or hearing somewhere that distilled water is
dangerous to drink all of the time, because it leaches minerals out of your
body instead of replacing them. Someone correct me if I have it wrong
please, (Of course, if you're not using it all the time I don't imagine
that applies. It has always tasted flat to me though)

2) I was looking for a good bottled water myself since, while there isn't
anything as wrong with our tap water as there is in, say, parts of New York
(and I know people on here said it's good water there...I drank the water at
C.W. Post University dorms one year in the late 80s, it was nasty. That may
not even be in the city, I have no idea...) mine is still full of chlorine
which by itself can disturb the purity of tea...anyway, I was reading
Consumer Reports and they did some kind of taste test along with other
qualities (don't remember it all right now, if someone wants I can look up
the date and article title if you want to go find it) and they had some
expensive water at the top but then second or third was Dannon water, which
really surprised me. So if I get water it is that one (which does taste
pretty good to me and which I get in the hard clear plastic instead of the
soft plastic that can leave a taste) or I get Volvic if I'm feeling rich.
Volvic tastes really good...really neutral that is...to me for tea. And you
can get it for less expensive at Cost Plus near where I live.

3) And Bluesea: "I just checked and my bottles have a PKD date...which was
two days *after* I
bought them. The EXP date is the year after the PKD date."

You got water from the FUTURE? How cool is that???

Melinda


"Bluesea" > wrote in message
...
> It's generally accepted amongst knowledgeable tea drinkers that one should
> use bottled water for tea if one's regular tap water doesn't taste good.
> Mine doesn't and since I'm getting tired of the expense and effort
> required
> to keep my tea habit in decent-tasting water, I've been looking at
> filtering
> systems and read in the r.f.d.t. FAQ that bottled water is preferred over
> filtered water unless it's drawn and immediately put on to boil and not
> left
> sitting in a filtering carafe or pitcher.
>
> My question is: What's the difference? Don't spring waters pass through
> some sort of filtration or some sort of process that removes oxygen as
> much
> as home filtering does before they're bottled? Even if not, both bottle
> and
> carafe are made of plastic and will affect the taste depending on the
> quality of plastic used and bottled water sits in it's plastic bottle a
> *whole* lot longer than home-filtered water sits in a pitcher waiting to
> be
> used.
>
> --
> ~~Bluesea~~
> Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
> Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.
>
>

The Consumer Reports article I read was from 2000. Here's the citation:

"It's Only Water, Right?" (bottled water buyer's guide), Consumer Reports,
August 2000, v65 i8 p15(5)

The top three overall were Volvic, Dannon, and Arrowhead Mountain Spring
Water, all in the PET or clear (hard...brittle) plastic bottles. Check out
the article if you can, it has interesting info about tests they ran for
chemicals leaching out of the softer plastic containers and into the water,
also it rates a bunch of other waters and discusses minerals and various
other stuff.

Melinda

"Melinda" > wrote in message
...
> Some general comments on all of this:
>
> 1) I seem to remember reading or hearing somewhere that distilled water is
> dangerous to drink all of the time, because it leaches minerals out of
your
> body instead of replacing them. Someone correct me if I have it wrong
> please, (Of course, if you're not using it all the time I don't imagine
> that applies. It has always tasted flat to me though)

The book, "Prescription for Nutritional Healing" by James F. Balch, M.D.,
and Phyllis A. Balch, C.N.C (certified nutritional consultant), recommends
drinking only distilled water because it's the only pure water around (you
can't trust rainwater anymore) and that it flushes out excesses, toxins,
and wastes as well as lubricates, better than any other form of water. They
said if you don't like the (lack of) taste, you can always add a few drops
of lemon juice or apple cider or, IIRC, apple cider vinegar.

A friend recently told me the same thing about distilled water depleting
minerals but she's such a flake (a sweet lady, but still a flake) that I
automatically rejected what she said because she wasn't able to cite a
source (it was just something she heard somewhere) and I'd already read the
book mentioned above. Besides, don't we also get minerals from the foods we
eat, other liquids we consume such as milk, and any vitamin/mineral
supplements that we take?

> 2) I was looking for a good bottled water myself...

The article, "Drinking water quality and health" at
http://www.cdc.gov/nasd/docs/d000001...09/d000009.pdf

or, http://tinyurl.com/477ut

says:

"However, bottled water may be in distribution for several weeks and storage
conditions, especially temperature, may adversely affect quality. In terms
of bacterial content, it is questionable as to whether bottled water is
better than most municipal tap water. Bottled water often is purchased for
its good taste. However, taste does not always indicate safeness. At the
concentrations present in drinking water, most harmful substances (including
some disease-causing microorganisms, nitrates, trace amounts of lead and
mercury, and some pesticides and organic materials) have no taste.
Differences in taste among bottled waters generally are due to differing
amounts of carbon dioxide, calcium, iron compounds, sodium, and other
minerals and mineral salts. Differences also may be due to the amount and
type of processing.
..
..
..
As for contaminants, bottled water generally rates as good as but no better
than municipal water supplies used for comparison purposes. If you do
purchase bottled or vended water, purchase from a quality retailer who
handles enough volume to rotate stock."


I went ahead and got the 3-stage faucet-mount Pur from Wal-Mart for $27
which works out to 27¢ per gal for the first 100 gallons. The 3-pack of
3-stage filters costs $38 which works out to 13¢/gal.

My current bottles cost $0.58/gal. If I drink the recommended 1/2 gal a day,
after the first 100 gallons (because of the initial cost of the system), a
year's supply (365/2) of 182.5 gallons is $105.85 while a year's worth of
filtered water is only $23.73, a savings of $82 a year. Even the initial
cost of the system, the first 100 gallons, cuts my cost by more than half.

Anyway, I put it on (super-easy & no tools needed, although I had to clean
off some mineral deposits w/ vinegar and a toothbrush) and the water tastes
really good...Ta-dah! No more lugging bottles home from the store or having
to take care of the empties.

Still need to see how the taste of tea is affected, but since I already
expect it to be better than unfiltered tap, I may have a preconceived bias.

> 3) And Bluesea: "I just checked and my bottles have a PKD date...which was
> two days *after* I
> bought them. The EXP date is the year after the PKD date."
>
> You got water from the FUTURE? How cool is that???

LOL! I never thought of it that way, but did you see that Eric got water
from >2 weeks in the future while mine was only 2 days?

--
~~Bluesea~~ "I think I might be envious."
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

"Melinda" > wrote in message
...
> The Consumer Reports article I read was from 2000. Here's the citation:
>
> "It's Only Water, Right?" (bottled water buyer's guide), Consumer Reports,
> August 2000, v65 i8 p15(5)
>
> The top three overall were Volvic, Dannon, and Arrowhead Mountain Spring
> Water, all in the PET or clear (hard...brittle) plastic bottles. Check out
> the article if you can, it has interesting info about tests they ran for
> chemicals leaching out of the softer plastic containers and into the
water,
> also it rates a bunch of other waters and discusses minerals and various
> other stuff.

Good info. Thanks for posting it.

--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 04:31:55 -0600
"Bluesea" > wrote:

>
> "Melinda" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Some general comments on all of this:
> >
> > 1) I seem to remember reading or hearing somewhere that distilled water
> > is dangerous to drink all of the time, because it leaches minerals out
> > of
> your
> > body instead of replacing them. Someone correct me if I have it wrong
> > please, (Of course, if you're not using it all the time I don't
> > imagine that applies. It has always tasted flat to me though)
>
> The book, "Prescription for Nutritional Healing" by James F. Balch, M.D.,
> and Phyllis A. Balch, C.N.C (certified nutritional consultant),
> recommends drinking only distilled water because it's the only pure water
> around (you can't trust rainwater anymore) and that it flushes out
> excesses, toxins, and wastes as well as lubricates, better than any other
> form of water. They said if you don't like the (lack of) taste, you can
> always add a few drops of lemon juice or apple cider or, IIRC, apple
> cider vinegar.


That screams "pseudo-science" so loudly that i wonder if Dr. Balch has
lost his license, or perhaps acquired his MD by mail, or in some banana
republic.

For one, distilled water is hardly pure, as anyone in the electronic
component manufacturing business can explain in detail. It's a lot /more/
pure, but the water they use to wash things like uncut wafers of chips has
a few orders of magnitude fewer contaminants. Distilled water will leave
behind little crystals of minerals on the substrate, the stuff they use
leaves behind nothing.

"Flushes out toxins" is one of my favorite pseudo-scientific health
terms. Like most good lies, it contains a grain of truth.

Since distilled water has more capacity as a solvent than tap water,
mathematically speaking the portion of the water you consumed that was
distilled carries more out with it as it passes through your kidneys than
the portion of the water you consumed that wasn't.

But what really happens is, your kidneys can only flush what they've got
on hand, and if you drink only distilled water, your urine won't have
significantly more flushed out toxins in it than if you didn't.

If you really want to 'flush out toxins', have another cup of tea. The
more you pee, the more you flush out. Until you've run out of things to
flus out - you can gauge the effectiveness of this method using the
informal 'color method'. No cheating with dyes or bleaches, please.

I see he also authored "The Super Anti-Oxidants" which proclaims loudly
that he is either not much of a scientist or was asleep during that section
of his medical training.

Here's how anti-oxidants work.

There are things in the environment - even pristine wilderness
untouched by man - that are missing a few electrons. We call these 'free
radicals'.

Putting it simply, they steal electrons from nearby molecules, causing
their neighbor to need to grab an electron from some other bit, typically
by grabbing an oxygen atom, or oxidizing. This sometimes causes minute
chain reactions. It's not a good thing, but it's no tragedy.

An anti-oxidant is a molecule with a few extra atoms. If one happens to
be in the neighborhood of a free radical, it can give up an electron or
three without needing to replace them.

You don't need many anti-oxidants. You can probably use slightly more
than the average person already has in their diet, but the truth is that
the returns are rapidly diminished as you take in more and more. You
quickly reach a point where all your free radicals are pretty much taken
care of.

Consuming an excessive amount of an anti-oxidant is actually a lot worse
than having too little in your diet. For example, enough vitamin C will
give you flu-like symptoms, and do a really effective job of rapidly
removing toxins from your body. My father swears by this cold remedy, fwiw.


I have another book to suggest.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846

http://tinyurl.com/47okm

"Eric Jorgensen" > wrote in message
news:20050212093042.6489b311@wafer...
> On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 04:31:55 -0600
> "Bluesea" > wrote:
> >
> > "Melinda" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Some general comments on all of this:
> > >
> > > 1) I seem to remember reading or hearing somewhere that distilled
water
> > > is dangerous to drink all of the time, because it leaches minerals out
> > > of
> > your
> > > body instead of replacing them. Someone correct me if I have it wrong
> > > please, (Of course, if you're not using it all the time I don't
> > > imagine that applies. It has always tasted flat to me though)
> >
> > The book, "Prescription for Nutritional Healing" by James F. Balch,
M.D.,
> > and Phyllis A. Balch, C.N.C (certified nutritional consultant),
> > recommends drinking only distilled water because it's the only pure
water
> > around (you can't trust rainwater anymore) and that it flushes out
> > excesses, toxins, and wastes as well as lubricates, better than any
other
> > form of water. They said if you don't like the (lack of) taste, you can
> > always add a few drops of lemon juice or apple cider or, IIRC, apple
> > cider vinegar.
>
> That screams "pseudo-science" so loudly that i wonder if Dr. Balch has
> lost his license, or perhaps acquired his MD by mail, or in some banana
> republic.
>
> For one, distilled water is hardly pure, as anyone in the electronic
> component manufacturing business can explain in detail. It's a lot /more/
> pure, but the water they use to wash things like uncut wafers of chips has
> a few orders of magnitude fewer contaminants. Distilled water will leave
> behind little crystals of minerals on the substrate, the stuff they use
> leaves behind nothing.
>
> "Flushes out toxins" is one of my favorite pseudo-scientific health
> terms. Like most good lies, it contains a grain of truth.

Ah, but you see, you're railing against what I remembered (or disremembered
as the case may be), not what the book actually says so, it may be my bad
and not the doctor's or the nutritionalist. My point was that I could cite a
source for distilled water and my friend couldn't cite a source against it.
The issue wasn't resolved, just dropped for lack of additional material to
go by.

Sorry that I don't have the book on hand to give an exact quote.

--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 16:53:54 GMT
"Bluesea" > wrote:


> Ah, but you see, you're railing against what I remembered (or
> disremembered as the case may be), not what the book actually says so, it
> may be my bad and not the doctor's or the nutritionalist. My point was
> that I could cite a source for distilled water and my friend couldn't
> cite a source against it. The issue wasn't resolved, just dropped for
> lack of additional material to go by.


It's a moot argument. Once it osmotes through your intestines it's just
water. We didn't invent reverse-osmosis purification, it happens all the
time.

The salient point, for the group, is that "better" is a subjective term.

Whatever makes tea the way you like it is better. In my adverse
conditions that's a three-stage PUR filter and extended refrigeration at
about 34 degrees f. So far. I will probably tinker further.

Aside from being a better solvent, distilled water is going to have a
different ph than your tap water.

Gasses in solution - especially carbon dioxide - are going to change
that ph by as much as a whole point, or more. CO2 in solution with water is
carbonic acid.

The ph difference is going to change what and how much is steeped from
the leaves, and will affect chemical reactions in the tea as well.

'better' is between you and your tea. All i hoped to do was to offer
people a larger set of tools for fine-tuning their steeping method. It's
not that I'm an expert, i've just been collecting tools.

Now, it's time for me to flush my toxins with a good SFTGFOP Assam.

"Eric Jorgensen" > wrote in message
news:20050212101849.74539c26@wafer...
> On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 16:53:54 GMT
> "Bluesea" > wrote:
>
> > Ah, but you see, you're railing against what I remembered (or
> > disremembered as the case may be), not what the book actually says so,
it
> > may be my bad and not the doctor's or the nutritionalist. My point was
> > that I could cite a source for distilled water and my friend couldn't
> > cite a source against it. The issue wasn't resolved, just dropped for
> > lack of additional material to go by.
>
> It's a moot argument. Once it osmotes through your intestines it's just
> water. We didn't invent reverse-osmosis purification, it happens all the
> time.
>
> The salient point, for the group, is that "better" is a subjective
term.
>
> Whatever makes tea the way you like it is better. In my adverse
> conditions that's a three-stage PUR filter and extended refrigeration at
> about 34 degrees f. So far. I will probably tinker further.
>
> Aside from being a better solvent, distilled water is going to have a
> different ph than your tap water.
>
> Gasses in solution - especially carbon dioxide - are going to change
> that ph by as much as a whole point, or more. CO2 in solution with water
is
> carbonic acid.
>
> The ph difference is going to change what and how much is steeped from
> the leaves, and will affect chemical reactions in the tea as well.
>
> 'better' is between you and your tea. All i hoped to do was to offer
> people a larger set of tools for fine-tuning their steeping method. It's
> not that I'm an expert, i've just been collecting tools.
>
> Now, it's time for me to flush my toxins with a good SFTGFOP Assam.

Heh. I'm sipping Guava Ginseng Green.

Yes, especially for tea, it's the taste that's important.

For citizens of the U.S.A. who might be wondering about their local water,
the EPA has some water reports online at:

http://www.epa.gov/safewater/dwinfo/index.html.

I was surprised to see that my area had a health violation of contaminating
TTHM for 3 months last year . While I've been drinking bottled water and
using it for tea, I'm glad that I now have a faucet filter for all my
consumable water.

Have a good one .

--
~~Bluesea~~ wondering if I consumed tap water during those months
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

Eric Jorgensen wrote:
> CO2 in solution with water is carbonic acid.
>
> The ph difference is going to change what and how much is steeped from
> the leaves, and will affect chemical reactions in the tea as well.

First point is a common but incorrect belief. Hydrolysis of aqueous CO2 to
carbonate is not rapid unless catalyzed; some consider its rate in marine
environments a key factor in determining the global atmospheric carbon
balance. Also wondering what you mean in the last bit; I doubt that there's
much chemistry going on in tea on the brewing timescale. (Reaction with
residual "chlorine" is one likely exception.) The middle bit is certainly
true, and minerals may have as strong an effect on extraction of critical
taste components as pH itself - via salting-out, chelation and other
mechanisms.

-DM

I'm more than a little frightend. The Granger water district (alas, not
good ole' magna, they've got a nearly spotless record), has nearly 50
reported violations. 1 major heath, and many many major reporting
violatons. Eek! I'm getting a filter!
Marlene

"Eric Jorgensen" > wrote in message
news:20050212101849.74539c26@wafer...
>
> Whatever makes tea the way you like it is better. In my adverse
> conditions that's a three-stage PUR filter and extended refrigeration at
> about 34 degrees f. So far. I will probably tinker further.

Eric & Derek (and anyone else) -

Have you tried the Pur 2-stage filter? How did it affect your tea compared
to the 3-stage filter?


--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 00:56:32 GMT
"Bluesea" > wrote:

>
> "Eric Jorgensen" > wrote in message
> news:20050212101849.74539c26@wafer...
> >
> > Whatever makes tea the way you like it is better. In my adverse
> > conditions that's a three-stage PUR filter and extended refrigeration
> > at about 34 degrees f. So far. I will probably tinker further.
>
> Eric & Derek (and anyone else) -
>
> Have you tried the Pur 2-stage filter? How did it affect your tea
> compared to the 3-stage filter?


Truth is i can't get the 2-stage filter anymore. Every retailer i can
find only sells the 3 stage now.

fwiw, the Britta pitcher filter, which appears for all the world to be a
funny shaped container full of activated carbon and nothing else, fits just
fine inside a Pur pitcher. I may try that option, since they're much
cheaper.

I'm not really fiddling with my process at home very much. My bigger
problem is figuring out what to do about the fact that when i steep the
same leaves in the same method (same glassware, in fact), using the same
electric kettle, when i make tea at work it's always astringent and bitter.

Got to be the water, which is delivered labeled "high mountain spring
water," which could either be an honest description or just a brand name.
The city water is legally potable but wholly unpalatable and I'm not
interested in filtering at work.

"Eric Jorgensen" > wrote in message
news:20050215180621.3c71643f@wafer...
> On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 00:56:32 GMT
> "Bluesea" > wrote:
>
> >
> > "Eric Jorgensen" > wrote in message
> > news:20050212101849.74539c26@wafer...
> > >
> > > Whatever makes tea the way you like it is better. In my adverse
> > > conditions that's a three-stage PUR filter and extended refrigeration
> > > at about 34 degrees f. So far. I will probably tinker further.
> >
> > Eric & Derek (and anyone else) -
> >
> > Have you tried the Pur 2-stage filter? How did it affect your tea
> > compared to the 3-stage filter?
>
>
> Truth is i can't get the 2-stage filter anymore. Every retailer i can
> find only sells the 3 stage now.

I can't recall if I saw any at Wal-Mart when I bought my filter the other
day. It could be on a phase-out schedule now that the 3-stage is out.


> fwiw, the Britta pitcher filter, which appears for all the world to be
a
> funny shaped container full of activated carbon and nothing else, fits
just
> fine inside a Pur pitcher. I may try that option, since they're much
> cheaper.

Good to know. Thanks.


> I'm not really fiddling with my process at home very much. My bigger
> problem is figuring out what to do about the fact that when i steep the
> same leaves in the same method (same glassware, in fact), using the same
> electric kettle, when i make tea at work it's always astringent and
bitter.
>
> Got to be the water, which is delivered labeled "high mountain spring
> water," which could either be an honest description or just a brand name.
> The city water is legally potable but wholly unpalatable and I'm not
> interested in filtering at work.

Bummer. All things being equal, it must be the water, but what's in it that
makes your tea so awful? Good luck!


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~~Bluesea~~
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