I grow up in Fujian Province, China. So my favourite is Oolong Tea,
especially Anxi Oolong Tea. To tell the truth, almost I could not bear
one day without tea, at home or in office. I also try many other teas
(green, flower, white, black tea), step by step, I am also very used to
the style and taste of Puer tea, even I like it. Sure, in this group,
everyone like tea, but which is your favourite tea? Green tea, Oolong
tea or puer tea? Why the tea attact you? What is your feelings? Could
anyone here shar it?

Enjoy tea, enjoy life.

Thanks

Lee

Http://www.mrentea.com

My favorite tea would have to be Longjing.


I drink Pu'er daily, and like you, I probably could not bear not being
able to drink my tea. I am currently living in Guangdong province, so
I'm close to Fangcun; easy to get good tea!!

Hi Lee,

Well my favorite tea these days is red tea (specifically Assam variatals
from Maylasia) but also I really love green tea right now, specifically
kaihua long ding, huang shan mao feng, and bian cha. There are so many kinds
of green tea that it is really an adventure. Tea enlivens me, and I don;t
feel in as good a mood if I don't drink at least some every day.

I like oolong but have noticed that it gives me a stomach ache, I am not
sure why. I've just noticed it recently. I also like puer but don't drink it
as often. I like puer better in the evening.

Welcome to the group

Melinda

--
"I know. You know I know. I know you know I know. We know Henry knows,
and Henry knows we know it."

We're a knowledgeable family." ::smiles:: -Geoffrey, Lion in Winter
"Chinesetea" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I grow up in Fujian Province, China. So my favourite is Oolong Tea,
> especially Anxi Oolong Tea. To tell the truth, almost I could not bear
> one day without tea, at home or in office. I also try many other teas
> (green, flower, white, black tea), step by step, I am also very used to
> the style and taste of Puer tea, even I like it. Sure, in this group,
> everyone like tea, but which is your favourite tea? Green tea, Oolong
> tea or puer tea? Why the tea attact you? What is your feelings? Could
> anyone here shar it?
>
> Enjoy tea, enjoy life.
>
> Thanks
>
> Lee
>
> Http://www.mrentea.com
>

I moved to Taiwan about 6 years ago and was first exposed to Oolong tea
at that time. The first couple of times I tried it I wasn't impressed -
very different from any tea I'd had before. But the taste has grown on
me and I now really appreciate being able to have good quality oolong
close at hand.

I find tea to be very refreshing in the afternoon and evening but I
still need my morning coffee...

Ross MacIver
http://www.teafromtaiwan.com/

Chinesetea wrote:
> I grow up in Fujian Province, China. So my favourite is Oolong Tea,
> especially Anxi Oolong Tea. To tell the truth, almost I could not bear
> one day without tea, at home or in office. I also try many other teas
> (green, flower, white, black tea), step by step, I am also very used to
> the style and taste of Puer tea, even I like it. Sure, in this group,
> everyone like tea, but which is your favourite tea? Green tea, Oolong
> tea or puer tea? Why the tea attact you? What is your feelings? Could
> anyone here shar it?
>
> Enjoy tea, enjoy life.
>
> Thanks
>
> Lee
>
> Http://www.mrentea.com
>

>I like oolong but have noticed that it gives me a stomach ache, I am not
>sure why. I've just noticed it recently.

Wulong is relatively strong, especially the Taiwan teas like A Li Shan.
Try eating some crackers or some cookies before drinking the tea, and
it will probably help the pain. I also noticed that I would get a
stomach ache occasionally, but it was only when I didn't have something
on my stomach.

In article .com>,
"Chinesetea" > wrote:

> Sure, in this group,
> everyone like tea, but which is your favourite tea? Green tea, Oolong
> tea or puer tea? Why the tea attact you? What is your feelings?

While I love green tea, and drink it regularly, lately I've
been focused on oolong, prepared gong-fu style. In
the morning I'll make a small pot of green and place it
on a holder over a small flame, sipping it while I read
and answer email. In the afternoon while I'm practicing
the piano, I'll drink oolong. In the evening after dinner
I'll have more oolong, a different one. Tea keeps me
centered and content. It has become part of my daily
life, and I can't imagine a day without it. It is a source
of comfort and pleasure. The
river of tea is a wide one, and deep. We'll never
run out of new ones to try....................p*

Too interesting a topic to pass on!

My favorite teas are thick body black Assams. Growing up in a tea
farming family in Assam has it's advantages : ) What I find here (in
the US) is that most Assam lovers tend to only differentiate teas based
on single estate. For us growers, we differentiate teas based on
variety (or single malt - as we like to call it). Assamese tea
varieties are cataloged by season and leaf size. My personal top three
are the medium leaf (TGFOP) from the spring harvest (first flush), the
smallest wholeleaf from summer harvest (second flush) <if it's tippy,
even better!> and the largest whole leaf from the summer harvest (which
we call Kama Black). I take my teas straight without any milk or sugar
- 2.5 grams per 8 oz. of water - steeped 3 to 5 minutes.

Tea keeps me alert and motivated. The two mugs of tea in the morning
gets me ready for the day, whereas the after dinner mug of tea gets me
ready for the night.

I am a sucker for good Darjeelings too ...as a nightcap!

1st or second flush Darjeeling, without milk or sugar.
--
Aloke
----
to reply by e-mail remove 123 and change invalid to com

"Chinesetea" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I grow up in Fujian Province, China. So my favourite is Oolong Tea,
> especially Anxi Oolong Tea. To tell the truth, almost I could not bear
> one day without tea, at home or in office. I also try many other teas
> (green, flower, white, black tea), step by step, I am also very used to
> the style and taste of Puer tea, even I like it. Sure, in this group,
> everyone like tea, but which is your favourite tea? Green tea, Oolong
> tea or puer tea? Why the tea attact you? What is your feelings? Could
> anyone here shar it?
>
> Enjoy tea, enjoy life.
>
> Thanks
>
> Lee
>
> Http://www.mrentea.com
>

My choices are still in process. I do expect to drink sencha at least
twice a week. Toci

Semi-fermented as Oolong tea it is, it still excites the stomach ache
if nothing in your stomach. So it's better not to drink too much green
oolong tea when you are in limosis or getting up in the morning, I
think its the same with green tea.But, for Oolong, I think if you drink
baked oolong tea, on the contrary, it still could safeguard and warm up
your stomach not matter you are hungry or getting up in the morning.
(The baked Oolong tea is similiar as puer tea, the reason it is not so
popular now is that people likes green colors (green leaf, light tea
soup, with beautiful vision enjoyment which people think they are green
food) and the "Yun" of Tie Guan Yin.So when you pay some attention to
the time of drinking oolong tea, it is really kind of enjoyment to take
cups of Oolong tea any time.The same time, Wuyi Mountain and Guang Dong
Oolong tea is still more heavy than Anxi Oolong in tea leaf color, soup
since they are more baked. So they are ok with your stomach. in
general, it is ok to drink any kind of tea any time, as long as you're
used to it, you can be used to it.It depends on you.

Thanks

Enjoy tea, enjoy life.

Lee

http://www.mrentea.com

Semi-fermented as Oolong tea it is, it still excites the stomach ache
if nothing in your stomach. So it's better not to drink too much green
oolong tea when you are in limosis or getting up in the morning, I
think its the same with green tea.But, for Oolong, I think if you drink
baked oolong tea, on the contrary, it still could safeguard and warm up
your stomach not matter you are hungry or getting up in the morning.
(The baked Oolong tea is similiar as puer tea, the reason it is not so
popular now is that people likes green colors (green leaf, light tea
soup, with beautiful vision enjoyment which people think they are green
food) and the "Yun" of Tie Guan Yin.So when you pay some attention to
the time of drinking oolong tea, it is really kind of enjoyment to take
cups of Oolong tea any time.The same time, Wuyi Mountain and Guang Dong
Oolong tea is still more heavy than Anxi Oolong in tea leaf color, soup
since they are more baked. So they are ok with your stomach. in
general, it is ok to drink any kind of tea any time, as long as you're
used to it, you can be used to it.It depends on you.

Thanks

Enjoy tea, enjoy life.

Lee

http://www.mrentea.com

Thanks Lee...yeah, I don't ahve ny trouble with green tea at all, but for
some reason oolong is getting me. I haven't tried it much lately though, it
could very well be that I had an empty stomach.

Melinda

--
"I know. You know I know. I know you know I know. We know Henry knows,
and Henry knows we know it."

We're a knowledgeable family." ::smiles:: -Geoffrey, Lion in Winter
"Chinesetea" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Semi-fermented as Oolong tea it is, it still excites the stomach ache
> if nothing in your stomach. So it's better not to drink too much green
> oolong tea when you are in limosis or getting up in the morning, I
> think its the same with green tea.But, for Oolong, I think if you drink
> baked oolong tea, on the contrary, it still could safeguard and warm up
> your stomach not matter you are hungry or getting up in the morning.
> (The baked Oolong tea is similiar as puer tea, the reason it is not so
> popular now is that people likes green colors (green leaf, light tea
> soup, with beautiful vision enjoyment which people think they are green
> food) and the "Yun" of Tie Guan Yin.So when you pay some attention to
> the time of drinking oolong tea, it is really kind of enjoyment to take
> cups of Oolong tea any time.The same time, Wuyi Mountain and Guang Dong
> Oolong tea is still more heavy than Anxi Oolong in tea leaf color, soup
> since they are more baked. So they are ok with your stomach. in
> general, it is ok to drink any kind of tea any time, as long as you're
> used to it, you can be used to it.It depends on you.
>
> Thanks
>
> Enjoy tea, enjoy life.
>
> Lee
>
> http://www.mrentea.com
>

>Semi-fermented as Oolong tea it is, it still excites the stomach ache
>if nothing in your stomach.

I tried a raw pu-erh recently, which I really liked. It was definately
a mistake to have it on an empty stomach, though. I just felt vaguely
queezy, but my girlfriend had to lie down for a bit. This was a 1999.
For those of you looking to try relatively young pu-erh, I certainly
would encourage you both to try it AND to eat something beforehand.

As to my favorite teas, that's still a work in progress for me. It's a
lot harder to consistently get good tea in the US, especially if you're
on a budget like I am.

Aside from pu-ehr, I have really enjoyed oolong from Taiwan,
specifically dong ding and wen shan puchong (sp?). And for every day
drinking, I do enjoy some cooked pu-erh from the Vietnamese grocer,
suplemented with some chrysanthemum. Very refreshing.

Nico

If you're drinking Dong Ding and I guess Ali Shan from Taiwan you can't
be on much of a budget. Okay you can find cheap Tung Ting but not Ali
Shan. Puerh is still a good deal even from the websites compared to
the everyday shelf prices of my local tea shoppe. The best bargain are
the loose teas in ethnic markets. You can have your choice around
penny/gram and find something you like everyday. Black puer is
excellent on an empty stomach. It is low caffeine and will soothe the
hunger pains even though I drink it after a meal to abate the I'm not
full anxiety. I think you're making the green to strong. It will be
about a third of any Taiwan oolong. I use half as much green as any
black puer. I think any new tea taste can throw the stomach for a
loop. I can still barely tolerate WuYi Old Tree Rock tea.
Chrysanthemum is the Jasmine of Puerh. It's not needed.

Jim

Nico wrote:
> >Semi-fermented as Oolong tea it is, it still excites the stomach ache
> >if nothing in your stomach.
>
> I tried a raw pu-erh recently, which I really liked. It was definately
> a mistake to have it on an empty stomach, though. I just felt vaguely
> queezy, but my girlfriend had to lie down for a bit. This was a 1999.
> For those of you looking to try relatively young pu-erh, I certainly
> would encourage you both to try it AND to eat something beforehand.
>
> As to my favorite teas, that's still a work in progress for me. It's a
> lot harder to consistently get good tea in the US, especially if you're
> on a budget like I am.
>
> Aside from pu-ehr, I have really enjoyed oolong from Taiwan,
> specifically dong ding and wen shan puchong (sp?). And for every day
> drinking, I do enjoy some cooked pu-erh from the Vietnamese grocer,
> suplemented with some chrysanthemum. Very refreshing.
>
> Nico

"Space Cowboy" > wrote in message
oups.com...
<snip>
> Black puer is
> excellent on an empty stomach. It is low caffeine and will soothe the
<snip>

I've been wondering about this, I know the debate over caffeine content of
black (red) vs. oolong vs. green tea, but don't know much about pu er
caffeine content. As I can't really handle much caffeine in the late
afternoon to evening, I am interested in the caffeine content of pu er, both
green and black and cooked/ raw etc.

Does anyone know?

And what is the cause of the stomach upset with green pu er? Is it
caffeine?

thanks
L

>If you're drinking Dong Ding and I guess Ali Shan from Taiwan you can't
>be on much of a budget.

If by "drinking", you mean, "purchased once", I'd maintain it's very
possible. I am, after all, a very recent college graduate and
philosophy major. I'm also perhaps not the most thrifty person. I like
to splurge even when I shouldn't. Plus, I really like good tea.

And I did mean Wen Shan Pouchong. At least that's what my local tea
store calls it. And while it is expensive, it won't break the bank to
buy 4 oz. once. And I liked it a lot.

>The best bargain are
>the loose teas in ethnic markets

I buy a cooked CNNP cake at Vietnamese market for about $2 a pop (this
is at Truoung Tanh (sp?) Asian Market on Nicolette for you
Minneapolitans out there). I haven't tried their loose stuff yet, but I
like the cakes a lot.

>I think you're making the green to strong. It will be
>about a third of any Taiwan oolong. I use half as much green as any
>black puer.

I liked it the way I made it quite a bit. I tend to make my teas pretty
strong. I was a little woozy at first, but I've been feeling invincible
all day. My girlfriend has a pretty sensitive stomach. I'll likely make
it less strong for her next time.

>Chrysanthemum is the Jasmine of Puerh. It's not needed.

True as that may be, having tried my cake both with and sans
chrysanthemum, I really like it with. It masks some of the musky taste
of the tea. It's a popular blend in Hong Kong and in the Chinese
diaspora, so I'm told. (To you MPLS folks- dried chrysanthemum can be
found at the Shuang Hur, located on Nicolette and on Dale and
University). Plus, my girlfriend really likes it. I hope you'll forgive
me for seeing her as a greater authority on this matter.

I am also, I confess, a jasmine tea fan. If it's good enough for the
Chinese, it's good enough for me.

> I think you're making
> the green to strong. It will be about a third of any Taiwan oolong. I
> use half as much green as any black puer.

In my experience an Oolong tea improves immensely if you make it rather
weak. Same with greens.

JB

RenShen is the ginseng crusted pellet oolong tea. More expensive than
Ali Shan. Popular in Taiwan from what I understand. Any tea brewed as
a concentrate can put you in la la land on an empty stomach. Try
imperial gunpowder. I still have flashbacks when I brew a cup. You
can buy Chrysanthemum as whole flower bulk in the markets not the c/s
that might arrive with a shipment from China. Learn to drink tea with
the edge. You're not Chinese. The diaspora drinks their tea at bubble
shops so at minimum switch to tapioca because anybody who says they
like Chrysanthemum doesn't because in TCM it is a cooling bitter and
not flavoring. In the beginning girlfriends are always right. My
local tea shoppe flirted with selling cake Puerh during the holidays
last year end. He sold all he could get from another owner so not much
markup and still hard to find from wholesale Western distributors.

Jim

Nico wrote:
> >If you're drinking Dong Ding and I guess Ali Shan from Taiwan you can't
> >be on much of a budget.
>
> If by "drinking", you mean, "purchased once", I'd maintain it's very
> possible. I am, after all, a very recent college graduate and
> philosophy major. I'm also perhaps not the most thrifty person. I like
> to splurge even when I shouldn't. Plus, I really like good tea.
>
> And I did mean Wen Shan Pouchong. At least that's what my local tea
> store calls it. And while it is expensive, it won't break the bank to
> buy 4 oz. once. And I liked it a lot.
>
> >The best bargain are
> >the loose teas in ethnic markets
>
> I buy a cooked CNNP cake at Vietnamese market for about $2 a pop (this
> is at Truoung Tanh (sp?) Asian Market on Nicolette for you
> Minneapolitans out there). I haven't tried their loose stuff yet, but I
> like the cakes a lot.
>
> >I think you're making the green to strong. It will be
> >about a third of any Taiwan oolong. I use half as much green as any
> >black puer.
>
> I liked it the way I made it quite a bit. I tend to make my teas pretty
> strong. I was a little woozy at first, but I've been feeling invincible
> all day. My girlfriend has a pretty sensitive stomach. I'll likely make
> it less strong for her next time.
>
> >Chrysanthemum is the Jasmine of Puerh. It's not needed.
>
> True as that may be, having tried my cake both with and sans
> chrysanthemum, I really like it with. It masks some of the musky taste
> of the tea. It's a popular blend in Hong Kong and in the Chinese
> diaspora, so I'm told. (To you MPLS folks- dried chrysanthemum can be
> found at the Shuang Hur, located on Nicolette and on Dale and
> University). Plus, my girlfriend really likes it. I hope you'll forgive
> me for seeing her as a greater authority on this matter.
>
> I am also, I confess, a jasmine tea fan. If it's good enough for the
> Chinese, it's good enough for me.

>"Space Cowboy" > wrote in message
roups.com...
><snip>
>> Black puer is
>> excellent on an empty stomach. It is low caffeine and will soothe the
><snip>
>
>I've been wondering about this, I know the debate over caffeine content of
>black (red) vs. oolong vs. green tea, but don't know much about pu er
>caffeine content. As I can't really handle much caffeine in the late
>afternoon to evening, I am interested in the caffeine content of pu er, both
>green and black and cooked/ raw etc.
>
>Does anyone know?
>
>And what is the cause of the stomach upset with green pu er? Is it
>caffeine?
>
>thanks
>L
>

Hi Lara,

Contrary to what others may imply Black puerh is NOT any lower in
caffeine than Green puerh. This is easily confirmed by looking at the
caffeine content of various teas at
http://users.argolink.net/purfarms/komchem/teacaff.HTM They measured
Caffeine by reversed phase liquid chromatography with UV detection and
a Scientist friend of mine confirmed that this is one of the best
methods for doing this. You will see that puerh ranges in caffeine
from 1.8% to 3.4% and green or black are irrelevant. The largest
factor affecting the caffeine content of black OR green puerh is the
size and age of the leaf used. Smaller younger leaf has more caffeine
than older larger leaf. Therefore puerhs made from plantation grown
plants using the 2 leaves and a bud style of picking will be higher in
caffeine than say a puerh made from larger leaf picked from a wild
tree. A lot of loose leaf (and mini tuocha) black puerhs are made from
the smaller leaf and these will have almost twice the caffeine as a
large leaf green puerh.

If you adopt the gongfu style of brewing puerh, and properly rinse
your tea, a large portion of the caffeine will wash away with the
rinse. Caffeine is extremely water soluble, even in cold water, better
grades of coffee are often decaffeinated by flushing the green beans
with water. A couple of rinses should wash away most of the caffeine
and leave behind a very flavorful pot of tea. Even if you don't brew
gongfu style you can still rinse just about any tea, using whatever
method you choose, for a few seconds and eliminate large portions of
the caffeine. Two rinses, wait a few seconds in between them, will
eliminate even more. For more info on brewing puerh specifically see
http://www.pu-erh.net/howtobrew.html

Do all green puerhs upset your stomach? Or is it just one or two that
you have tried? How much tea are you using? What temperature of water,
how long of a steep? As for the strength of green puerh I usually
recommend starting with 1g per 30ml (1 oz) if brewing gongfu style, if
the green puerh is young I will use water around 195f, a rinse or two
is in order, then short steeps about 20 seconds or so increasing in
length with each subsequent steep. If the tea is too weak you can add
more leaf per ounce of water or lengthen the steep times, I prefer
adding more leaf.

Mike Petro
http://www.pu-erh.net
"In this work, when it shall be found that much is omitted, let it not be forgotten that much likewise is performed."
Samuel Johnson, 1775, upon finishing his dictionary.

Hi Nico,

>>I think you're making the green to strong. It will be
>>about a third of any Taiwan oolong. I use half as much green as any
>>black puer.
>
>I liked it the way I made it quite a bit. I tend to make my teas pretty
>strong. I was a little woozy at first, but I've been feeling invincible
>all day. My girlfriend has a pretty sensitive stomach. I'll likely make
>it less strong for her next time.

Black or green I usually start with 1 g of leaf per ounce of water and
adjust to taste from there. Don't forget to rinse your tea first! I
was taught to ALWAYS rinse (wash) the puerh. This is done by filling
the pot with the water and then waiting for 3-5 breaths, then pour out
this first infusion, do not drink it. I was also taught to do 2 rinses
of shu puerh instead of just one. A side effect of this will probably
be less of a caffeine high as the rinsing gets rid of a bunch of the
caffeine.

>>Chrysanthemum is the Jasmine of Puerh. It's not needed.
>
>True as that may be, having tried my cake both with and sans
>chrysanthemum, I really like it with. It masks some of the musky taste
>of the tea. It's a popular blend in Hong Kong and in the Chinese
>diaspora, so I'm told. (To you MPLS folks- dried chrysanthemum can be
>found at the Shuang Hur, located on Nicolette and on Dale and
>University). Plus, my girlfriend really likes it. I hope you'll forgive
>me for seeing her as a greater authority on this matter.

Mixing chrysanthemum flowers with puerh is an old tradition that goes
back centuries, you will often find it served this way in better Dim
Sum restaurants. You can find black puerh cakes with chrysanthemum
flowers pressed into them already
http://www.pu-erh.net/graphics/Stash/Stash%20044.jpg I got mine from
http://cgi.ebay.com/2003-Premium-Pu-...QQcmdZViewItem
although I think his price is a little expensive for a 125g bing,
(hint: bargain with him, he will negotiate). Another nice flavoring
addition to puerh is puerh blossoms. These are the tea flowers which
are also pressed into a bing shape. In the old days they were also
mixed directly into the puerh cakes prior to being pressed.
http://www.pu-erh.net/graphics/Stash/7-1-05%20026.jpg or buy them from
http://cgi.ebay.com/Pu-Erh-Tree-Flow...QQcmdZViewItem


>I am also, I confess, a jasmine tea fan. If it's good enough for the
>Chinese, it's good enough for me.

Yes, quite tasty after dinner.

Mike Petro
http://www.pu-erh.net
"In this work, when it shall be found that much is omitted, let it not be forgotten that much likewise is performed."
Samuel Johnson, 1775, upon finishing his dictionary.

I think it is generally accepted that the caffeine content of various
tea cultivars by weight are more or less a constant ie any variance
wouldn't mean very much say plus or minus 1.5%. Any claims that the pu
is low in caffeine could be based on usage. A little pu goes a long
way. In my experience I might use a gram of black versus 2 grams of
green verus 3 grams for any other tea. You can get more usuable
infusions from puerh than any other variety I can think of especially
for the black. Caffeine is water soluable but since black can maintain
it's taste over multiple infusions I think the chemistry of puerh for
some reason must make it harder to leach IMHO.

Jim

Lara Burton wrote:
> "Space Cowboy" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> <snip>
> > Black puer is
> > excellent on an empty stomach. It is low caffeine and will soothe the
> <snip>
>
> I've been wondering about this, I know the debate over caffeine content of
> black (red) vs. oolong vs. green tea, but don't know much about pu er
> caffeine content. As I can't really handle much caffeine in the late
> afternoon to evening, I am interested in the caffeine content of pu er, both
> green and black and cooked/ raw etc.
>
> Does anyone know?
>
> And what is the cause of the stomach upset with green pu er? Is it
> caffeine?
>
> thanks
> L

On 21 Aug 2005 09:02:19 -0700, "Space Cowboy" >
wrote:

>Caffeine is water soluable but since black can maintain
>it's taste over multiple infusions I think the chemistry of puerh for
>some reason must make it harder to leach IMHO.

I consider this to be totally unfounded, can you support it with any
hard data? According to all of the accredited research I have read
caffeine is extracted very readily and very early.

The fact that any puerh can last multiple steeps has nothing to do
with the rate at which caffeine can be extracted. The "flavor"
components in puerh simply don't get exhausted as readily as other
teas. Some of the Chinese studies have documented how some components
extract faster than others, caffeine being one of them, this is why
latter steeps tend to taste sweeter. The sweetness is always there but
in early steeps it is masked by stronger flavor components, however
these stronger components are extracted at a faster rate than the
sweeter ones.

Now, if you are using compressed puerh there will be residual caffeine
in subsequent steeps until all of the tea has a chance to become
saturated with water and therefore allow the caffeine to dissolve. To
minimize this effect flake the tea as much as you can without
pulverizing it, you want whole leaves if possible, rinse the tea once
for 15-30 seconds and then wait a minute or two and then rinse the tea
a second time. Additionally, because of the high levels of microbes
used to process Black Puerh it has been recommended to me by very
knowledgeable puerh collectors in China to always rinse black puerh
twice even if it is loose leaf.

Btw, a properly aged green puerh will last many more steeps than a
typical black puerh, often twice as many. I speak from experience as I
now have puerh from each of the last 5 decades in my collection. Aged
black puerh, as a rule, will not gain much after 7-10 years. I have
however found an exception to that. I was recently given a gift of
some Black Tibetan Mushroom tea (probably Baoyan) that is 20-25 years
old and comes very close to competing with good aged green puerh.

Mike Petro
http://www.pu-erh.net
"In this work, when it shall be found that much is omitted, let it not be forgotten that much likewise is performed."
Samuel Johnson, 1775, upon finishing his dictionary.

IMHO also includes 35 years of anecdotal tasting. A strong cup of tea
will keep me tossing and turning versus a weak cup which causes me to
snore and keep my wife awake. It has nothing to do with the first
infusion. If you drink tea long enough with more variety you'll
recognize more similarities in physical reactions including caffeine
immunity. I can drink two or three infusions of black puerh in the
evening and never worry about caffeine reactions during sleep. A gram
of puerh weighs more than a gram of white tea like SowMee in the sense
you get more 'taste' for the puerh gram. However you'll need about
three to four times the weight in SowMee for the 'taste' therefore more
caffeine in the white cup. It is a simple rule of chemistry if you
start with more tea weight you end up with more caffeine. You stated
you use 1g/oz for brewing puerh. At most I use 3g for multiple cups
totaling 24oz for the 'taste' I prefer. I have a recent crop whole
leaf wild tree green log which is only good for one infusion. It won't
see the light of day for multiple infusions because it taste that good.
The Chinese rinsing of tea is to remove debris and not improve taste.
You can say that improves taste along with using clean water. I can
also anecdotally say 80% of taste and caffeine is removed after the
first infusion of a British blend. But across the board as rule not
from my experience in general. What you call sweetness in puerh which
I assume is the absence of astringency after multiple infusions is what
I call blandness with no edge or bite. It's like the use of Chinese
'fragrant' to describe teas. It has nothing to do with sweetness.
Just more aroma or less. The table you mention has nothing to do with
taste and the amount of caffeine in any particular infusion. Drop any
of those teas in cold water versus hot and the taste and caffeine won't
be the same till after 24 hours. There is nothing worse than using
science to come up with the wrong conclusion about the taste and
caffeine in your cup. You also don't need a thermometer,scale or timer
to make tea. If you get the tea jitters add more water, use less tea
or drink sooner. BTW my recent Xiaguan Perfect Flame Tibetan Mushroom
tea is half green. You say tomato... I leave it up to others with
more money to buy aged puer which has nothing to do with caffeine.
I'll put up my thirty year old black Poo Nee (cheap back then) against
any of your expensive (current speculation) aged green for a multiple
infusion taste runoff. In case you call my bluff no I don't because
I'm sitting on my retirement and you're just waiting to file an early
Chapter 7 before October.

Jim

Mike Petro wrote:
> On 21 Aug 2005 09:02:19 -0700, "Space Cowboy" >
> wrote:
>
> >Caffeine is water soluable but since black can maintain
> >it's taste over multiple infusions I think the chemistry of puerh for
> >some reason must make it harder to leach IMHO.
>
> I consider this to be totally unfounded, can you support it with any
> hard data? According to all of the accredited research I have read
> caffeine is extracted very readily and very early.
>
> The fact that any puerh can last multiple steeps has nothing to do
> with the rate at which caffeine can be extracted. The "flavor"
> components in puerh simply don't get exhausted as readily as other
> teas. Some of the Chinese studies have documented how some components
> extract faster than others, caffeine being one of them, this is why
> latter steeps tend to taste sweeter. The sweetness is always there but
> in early steeps it is masked by stronger flavor components, however
> these stronger components are extracted at a faster rate than the
> sweeter ones.
>
> Now, if you are using compressed puerh there will be residual caffeine
> in subsequent steeps until all of the tea has a chance to become
> saturated with water and therefore allow the caffeine to dissolve. To
> minimize this effect flake the tea as much as you can without
> pulverizing it, you want whole leaves if possible, rinse the tea once
> for 15-30 seconds and then wait a minute or two and then rinse the tea
> a second time. Additionally, because of the high levels of microbes
> used to process Black Puerh it has been recommended to me by very
> knowledgeable puerh collectors in China to always rinse black puerh
> twice even if it is loose leaf.
>
> Btw, a properly aged green puerh will last many more steeps than a
> typical black puerh, often twice as many. I speak from experience as I
> now have puerh from each of the last 5 decades in my collection. Aged
> black puerh, as a rule, will not gain much after 7-10 years. I have
> however found an exception to that. I was recently given a gift of
> some Black Tibetan Mushroom tea (probably Baoyan) that is 20-25 years
> old and comes very close to competing with good aged green puerh.
>
> Mike Petro

On 21 Aug 2005 13:08:21 -0700, "Space Cowboy" >
wrote:

<snip>
> I can drink two or three infusions of black puerh in the
>evening and never worry about caffeine reactions during sleep. A gram
>of puerh weighs more than a gram of white tea like SowMee in the sense
>you get more 'taste' for the puerh gram. However you'll need about
>three to four times the weight in SowMee for the 'taste' therefore more
>caffeine in the white cup. It is a simple rule of chemistry if you
>start with more tea weight you end up with more caffeine. You stated
>you use 1g/oz for brewing puerh. At most I use 3g for multiple cups
>totaling 24oz for the 'taste' I prefer.

All of this proves nothing. Naturally if you brew your tea weaker you
will have less caffeine. I was referring to caffeine as a "percent" of
the leaf, it is the only scientific way I know of to quantify it.

BTW, if I put 5g of leaf in a 5 ounce pot and I get 10 steeps out of
it, that about 50oz of tea more or less, not too terribly different
from your ratio now is it? After a rinse and the first steep or two
the caffeine in my rig is pretty much gone. So if I start out in the
afternoon, by bedtime I am drinking tea that is basically
decaffeinated.

> The Chinese rinsing of tea is to remove debris and not improve taste.

That is NOT what several different Chinese people have told me. Yes,
removing dust etc is "part" of it, but it is also to remove other
non-contaminants as well with the ultimate goal of improving taste. Go
ask a Chinese Tea Master, I have already asked three of them.

> What you call sweetness in puerh which
>I assume is the absence of astringency after multiple infusions is what
>I call blandness with no edge or bite. It's like the use of Chinese
>'fragrant' to describe teas. It has nothing to do with sweetness.

Hmm apparently you have never experienced the hauntingly elusive
sweetness in the aftertaste of a really good puerh. Is quite real,
quite sweet, and it is indeed very much more than the absence of
anything. "Sweetness" is the term that has been used for many many
centuries, I doubt that thousands of years of Chinese tea heritage is
wrong.

>The table you mention has nothing to do with
>taste and the amount of caffeine in any particular infusion. Drop any
>of those teas in cold water versus hot and the taste and caffeine won't
>be the same till after 24 hours.

The use of the table was to show that green and black had little to do
with the caffeine content, and it does indeed show that. In a
different but related post today I also stated that leaf permeability,
time, and temp where all relevant variables. The optimum extraction
temperature for Caffeine is roughly 170f or above. Hence some teas
brewed at lower temperatures may retain more caffeine through multiple
steeps.

>There is nothing worse than using
>science to come up with the wrong conclusion about the taste and
>caffeine in your cup.

I don't get it, where have you proven me or my reference to research
wrong? Just because you brew your tea weaker than a gongfu style
doesn't change the PERCENT of caffeine in the leaf or the rate at
which it is extracted.

>I'll put up my thirty year old black Poo Nee (cheap back then) against
>any of your expensive (current speculation) aged green for a multiple
>infusion taste runoff. In case you call my bluff no I don't because
>I'm sitting on my retirement and you're just waiting to file an early
>Chapter 7 before October.

If you wont put your money where your mouth is then why offer?


>> >Caffeine is water soluable but since black can maintain
>> >it's taste over multiple infusions I think the chemistry of puerh for
>> >some reason must make it harder to leach IMHO.
>>
>> I consider this to be totally unfounded, can you support it with any
>> hard data? According to all of the accredited research I have read
>> caffeine is extracted very readily and very early.

Now, all of that hot air above (aka bait and switch) still did not
address the only real thing I challenged you on. Do you have any proof
that caffeine is extracted slower out of black puerh than out of green
puerh or any other tea for that matter. Just because you brew it
weaker doesn't change the extraction rate, it only means you have less
of everything in your cup including caffeine.

Mike Petro
http://www.pu-erh.net
"In this work, when it shall be found that much is omitted, let it not be forgotten that much likewise is performed."
Samuel Johnson, 1775, upon finishing his dictionary.

>Learn to drink tea with
>the edge. You're not Chinese. The diaspora drinks their tea at bubble
>shops so at minimum switch to tapioca because anybody who says they
>like Chrysanthemum doesn't because in TCM it is a cooling bitter and
>not flavoring.

Ok, Jim, you got me.
I confess, I just like the pretty flowers. In fact, there is nothing
like some pu-ehr with chrysanthemum after a good frolick in the meadow
in my favorite dress, where I warble Irish love balads and braid my
long hair. I secretly long to be Chinese. I carry the little red book
in my back pocket (or in my panties, as the case may be) at all times.
I apologize for projecting my deep psychological scars on to my choice
of tea.

Hi again Mike
>Another nice flavoring addition to puerh is puerh blossoms. These are the tea flowers >which are also pressed into a bing shape. In the old days they were also mixed directly >into the puerh cakes prior to being pressed.

I found one like that:
http://www.houdeasianart.com/index.p...61305690c5f 4

Too pricey, tho. That flower cake looks cool. I do like pretty flowers
(see previous post).

What sort of flavor do they have? Do you use them often, and with what?

Nico

On 21 Aug 2005 16:07:21 -0700, "Nico" >
wrote:

>Hi again Mike
>>Another nice flavoring addition to puerh is puerh blossoms. These are the tea flowers >which are also pressed into a bing shape. In the old days they were also mixed directly >into the puerh cakes prior to being pressed.
>
>I found one like that:
>http://www.houdeasianart.com/index.p...61305690c5f 4
>
>Too pricey, tho. That flower cake looks cool. I do like pretty flowers
>(see previous post).
>
>What sort of flavor do they have? Do you use them often, and with what?
>
>Nico

Hi Nico,

They have a flavor I cannot really describe, sort of rich and herbal I
guess. I brewed up a bunch by themselves and it was interesting, I
think many who like tisanes would like it solo. When added to puerh it
takes the edge off so to speak. Makes for a very mellow yet robust
cup. I don't use them very often as I prefer the "in your face" kind
of cup but I do think they are worthwhile.

That is a very interesting looking cake. It is quite different from
the cake I posted in that this cake is mixed with puerh leaf. It is
also made by a newer factory called Dadugang that I happen to like a
lot. I would expect this cake to be quite tasty.

Yes it is pricey but I see that Guang is offering samples of this cake
for $5. That is enough tea for at least 4-5 pots. Actually this is one
of Guang's strengths, the fact that he offers these samples. Most
vendors require you to buy the whole cake, then if you don't like it
you are stuck with over a half pound of tea. This selectable sample
concept is awesome! Hopefully more Vendors will follow suite.

Mike Petro
http://www.pu-erh.net
"In this work, when it shall be found that much is omitted, let it not be forgotten that much likewise is performed."
Samuel Johnson, 1775, upon finishing his dictionary.

>Semi-fermented as Oolong tea it is, it still excites the stomach ache
>if nothing in your stomach...

Just a slight note, Lee, it's ok to use the Chinese names for the teas;
we're all pretty in-the-know laowai's here when it comes to tea. Using
words like baked, cooked, and semi-fermented can confuse people as to
exactly which tea you are talking about.

>(The baked Oolong tea is similiar as puer tea, the reason it is not so
>popular now is that people likes green colors (green leaf, light tea
>soup, with beautiful vision enjoyment which people think they are green
>food) and the "Yun" of Tie Guan Yin.So when you pay some attention to
>the time of drinking oolong tea, it is really kind of enjoyment to take
>cups of Oolong tea any time...

I'm in Dongguan, Guangdong currently, and Pu'er is pretty popular among
tea drinkers here. The overall favorite would probably have to be TGY,
but Pu'er would be a close second.


>Guang Dong Oolong tea

Guangdong Wulong?

Also, remember TieGuanYin is of the wulong family, and it is still
relatively strong if you haven't eaten anything beforehand. Getting
used to it has little to do with it.

Just a comment from me...I do notice that decaf Tetley's is not as bitey as
the regular. And I do like the regular taste better, but have to decide in
the evening whether I want full flavor and stay awake or settle for the
decaf. It's something I notice with decaf coffee too. I guess this would
make sense that caffeine would be a flavor component, or enhance and change
other flavor components, in the tea. Our sense of taste must be pretty good.

Melinda

"Space Cowboy" > wrote in message
oups.com...

snip

What you call sweetness in puerh which
> I assume is the absence of astringency after multiple infusions is what
> I call blandness with no edge or bite. It's like the use of Chinese
> 'fragrant' to describe teas. It has nothing to do with sweetness.
> Just more aroma or less.

snip
>
> Jim
>
> Mike Petro wrote:
>> On 21 Aug 2005 09:02:19 -0700, "Space Cowboy" >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Caffeine is water soluable but since black can maintain
>> >it's taste over multiple infusions I think the chemistry of puerh for
>> >some reason must make it harder to leach IMHO.
snip
>> The fact that any puerh can last multiple steeps has nothing to do
>> with the rate at which caffeine can be extracted. The "flavor"
>> components in puerh simply don't get exhausted as readily as other
>> teas. Some of the Chinese studies have documented how some components
>> extract faster than others, caffeine being one of them, this is why
>> latter steeps tend to taste sweeter. The sweetness is always there but
>> in early steeps it is masked by stronger flavor components, however
>> these stronger components are extracted at a faster rate than the
>> sweeter ones.
snip

Mike Petro wrote:
>
> Yes it is pricey but I see that Guang is offering samples of this cake
> for $5. That is enough tea for at least 4-5 pots. Actually this is one
> of Guang's strengths, the fact that he offers these samples. Most
> vendors require you to buy the whole cake, then if you don't like it
> you are stuck with over a half pound of tea. This selectable sample
> concept is awesome! Hopefully more Vendors will follow suite.
>

Me too... that makes the tea world go round... Anyway I tasted the cake
you are talking about, Camellia flowers cake. It was puer with flowers,
they were lovely and so interesting..The tea was intoxicating to me. I
wish you guys could tell me more puerhs that taste like this one does?
Was a wonderful ripe peachy very long lasting brew. I only stopped
because I had to go to bed, it was still going well at midnight when I
had to stop,(I started at 4). Was a wonderful experience!
Jenn

My favorite: the "Ginger Peach" black tea from The Perennial Tea Room
(near Seattle's Pike Place Market). Before I found that, I drank
Republic of Tea's which is more ginger than peach.

I actually like the Pu-erh from Teavana, and I'm looking forward to
trying *real* Pu-erh. Anyone in the Seattle or Portland (moving there
next month) areas have a suggestion? How is the Pu-erh from World
Spice (also near Pike Place)?


stePH
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