Hi guys,
Having a cup of tea is so soothing and fulfilling for me it is not
wonder that I want to drink it all the time. I never thought caffeine
bothered me much until having sleeping problems when I took a cup late.

My question is how do Puerhs stack up on the caffeine scale on
subsequent brewings? It seems as if sub brew should be lower in caff
but what do you guys think? I havent tried drinking it later like at
night because of the sleep issue. And since puers are very different
from one another would the caff level be different too?
I received a sample of silver needles that was so robust and more
complex and deep than I remember SN being. After a cup and subsequent
brewings of those leaves I was up half the night. I didnt feel anxious
just not sleepy.
Thus I am trying to find the tea that I may sleep on.
Thanks for the feedback!
Jenn

On 28 Sep 2005 14:23:29 -0700, "Jenn" > wrote:

>Hi guys,
>Having a cup of tea is so soothing and fulfilling for me it is not
>wonder that I want to drink it all the time. I never thought caffeine
>bothered me much until having sleeping problems when I took a cup late.
>
>My question is how do Puerhs stack up on the caffeine scale on
>subsequent brewings? It seems as if sub brew should be lower in caff
>but what do you guys think? I havent tried drinking it later like at
>night because of the sleep issue. And since puers are very different
>from one another would the caff level be different too?
>I received a sample of silver needles that was so robust and more
>complex and deep than I remember SN being. After a cup and subsequent
>brewings of those leaves I was up half the night. I didnt feel anxious
>just not sleepy.
>Thus I am trying to find the tea that I may sleep on.
>Thanks for the feedback!
>Jenn


Puerh has roughly the same amount of caffeine as most other teas. See
http://users.argolink.net/purfarms/komchem/teacaff.HTM

I don my fire proof suite and step out once again to say that most of
the caffeine comes out in the first few steeps.

A long rinse, which is traditional, removes much of the caffeine
because it is highly water soluble. Now since a good puerh can stand
up to many steeps you can start with a tea in the afternoon, throw out
the rinse, get a some caffeine early on and then by evening you
essentially have a tea that is very low in caffeine.

Puerh is unique in that it also is capable of inducing a phenomena
called qi. Many will mistake qi for a caffeine buzz but it is really
not. It is a type of energy often spoken of in Chinese medicine.

Mike Petro
http://www.pu-erh.net
http://us.gutea.com/ (mirror in China)

snip

> Puerh is unique in that it also is capable of inducing a phenomena
> called qi. Many will mistake qi for a caffeine buzz but it is really
> not. It is a type of energy often spoken of in Chinese medicine.


In fact, to my understanding, it *is* a Chinese word *for* "energy." It is
used in the Chinese for such words as electricity. Not to demystify it, but
from my discussions with Chinese folks, it appears to be a word in need of
demystifying.

Qi has also been the brunt of sarcastic jokes in some quarters, especially
in reference to those empty-your-wallet-and-sell-your-first-born Pu'erhs of
great age which might taste like nothing at all, but "you're not paying for
the taste; it's all about the qi." (Smile when you say that, boy.)

Michael

Jenn,

It depends on what pu'er you are asking about.

Generally, 2 main categories: Cooked and uncooked pu'ers.

Cooked pu'er, 2 broad subcategories:

1. Hydro-thermal fermented and post dry storage. This pu'er contains a
small trace of caffeine still. The heat generated during the hydro-thermal
fermentation stage would have evaporated large amount of caffeine, leaving a
small amount of it in the tea.

2. Hydro-thermal fermented and post wet storage. This pu'er contains
almost no trace of caffeine, as the caffeine structure is completely broken
down. But this tea needs some getting used to, as most don't like its musty
earthy loamy peaty taste.

Uncooked pu'er generally contains higher amount of caffeine, again 2
subcategories:

1. Slightly fermented

2. Unfermented, this one has the highest caffeine content. When I drink
this, I sleep about 3 hours a night.

If you are unsure of the tea, take Mike's advice and rinse out the pu'er.
Pu'er, whether cooked or uncooked, usually tastes the best from the 3rd
round onwards anyways.

:")


Danny


"Jenn" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hi guys,
> Having a cup of tea is so soothing and fulfilling for me it is not
> wonder that I want to drink it all the time. I never thought caffeine
> bothered me much until having sleeping problems when I took a cup late.
>
> My question is how do Puerhs stack up on the caffeine scale on
> subsequent brewings? It seems as if sub brew should be lower in caff
> but what do you guys think? I havent tried drinking it later like at
> night because of the sleep issue. And since puers are very different
> from one another would the caff level be different too?
> I received a sample of silver needles that was so robust and more
> complex and deep than I remember SN being. After a cup and subsequent
> brewings of those leaves I was up half the night. I didnt feel anxious
> just not sleepy.
> Thus I am trying to find the tea that I may sleep on.
> Thanks for the feedback!
> Jenn
>

samarkand wrote:
> If you are unsure of the tea, take Mike's advice and rinse out the pu'er.
> Pu'er, whether cooked or uncooked, usually tastes the best from the 3rd
> round onwards anyways.

I've actually gotten to like the first infusion of the stuff Teavana
sells. I used to pour the first two down the sink, but now I drink
everything save the initial rinse.


stePH
--
GoogleGroups licks balls.

Thanks because that is what I wanted to know. From yalls experiences
(Yoda said experience is the best teacher) But I have spent may half
slept nights cause I wanted that cup. (some may say Jonesin') I can
drink Puer oh say 4pm and just have that cup till I go to bed. This is
a most grand choice.I may do that tonight. That last late cup of Bai
Hao made me jittery last night too. (But is was a new order and I HAD
to taste it) see how I am???
About Unfermented, Maybe why some white teas are high in stimulation?
Or maybe because theyre buds?????
Not sure bout the qi tho Is it just with Puers? I get a sense of well
being with most tea I drink and I drink alot of oolongs.
But some puers, I just MUST keep brewing till I cannot go any further
or am floating away with fluid intake....
Thanks all of you I am, going to choose my puer for this pm now. In the
meantime I continue to taste these small bags of oolong, Ming
Xian(wow) Shan ling Xi (Like a flower cup) Shi Zuo(a mellow cup with
depth and ripe flavor). God I am in heaven!

Oh one more thing are there oolong type teas made like puers? I heard
of an aged oolong in an orange or other citus? I have heard of the puer
in pomelo..... Just asking cause you guys may just know about this. To
paraphrase a statement Gerry once made My life aint worth a hoot till I
have some!
Jenn

"Jenn" > writes:

> [...]
> About Unfermented, Maybe why some white teas are high in stimulation?
> Or maybe because theyre buds?????

Exactly: buds have more caffeine than mature leaves.

> [...]
> Oh one more thing are there oolong type teas made like puers?

Yes:

http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcar...ase=you+zi+cha

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

WNW wrote this review back in December 2001:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.f...1?dmode=source

Which jives with what I know that it is an aged oolong stuffed in
Pomelo which absorbs some sweetness. AFAIK aged oolong is just
repeated quarterly refiring for about a year to enhance the oxidation.
No matter what definition you give to the Pu it is at least fermented.

Okay I forked out the bucks for a golden melon based on a certain
recommendation.

Jim

PS: Does anyone know what happened to Neal?

Lewis Perin wrote:
> > Oh one more thing are there oolong type teas made like puers?
>
> Yes:
>
> http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcar...ase=you+zi+cha
>
> /Lew
> ---
> Lew Perin /
> http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

Space 9/29/05


> WNW wrote this review back in December 2001:
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.f...8b9a91?dmode=s
> ource
>
> Which jives with what I know that it is an aged oolong stuffed in
> Pomelo which absorbs some sweetness. AFAIK aged oolong is just
> repeated quarterly refiring for about a year to enhance the oxidation.
> No matter what definition you give to the Pu it is at least fermented.
>
> Okay I forked out the bucks for a golden melon based on a certain
> recommendation.
>
> Jim
>
> PS: Does anyone know what happened to Neal?


To me, what you say makes good sense. Just a word on "Oolong," though. It's
undoubtedly more (or perhaps less) than quarterly firings. By definition,
isn't it a tea that is neither green (completely un-oxidized) or a red
(completely oxidized), but rather a tea that is partially oxidized to any
degree?

Neal is ensconced at his place, working on many projects, and fulfilling his
many responsibilities while drink a number of teas.

Michael

Lewis 9/29/05

> "Jenn" > writes:
>
>> [...]
>> About Unfermented, Maybe why some white teas are high in stimulation?
>> Or maybe because theyre buds?????
>
> Exactly: buds have more caffeine than mature leaves.
>
>> [...]
>> Oh one more thing are there oolong type teas made like puers?
>
> Yes:
>
> http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcar...ase=you+zi+cha


Lew,

Let's take this a bit further. A Pu'erh can be "raw" (green) or "cooked"
(oxidized/fermented) when it enters the aging process in its cake (bing),
brick (feng), or bird nest (tuo) form. Surely there are variations in the
degree of cookedness in the leaf on the way to storage, and thus anything in
the middle would be an "Oolong" by definition, right? Except that once the
tea enters true poo production, it's Pu'erh not Oolong. In the case of the
tea stuffed pomelo that babelcarp speaks of, I take it the actual tea
therein is/was Oolong? But, something deep inside me says that ultimately it
tea can be Oolong or tea can be Pu'erh, but it's got to make up its mind and
claim its allegance at the end.

If you like you can attribute the brilliance of my logic to an overdose of
caffeine, thus I leave the subject line untouched.

Michael

Michael Plant > writes:

> Lewis 9/29/05
>
> > "Jenn" > writes:
> >
> >> [...]
> >> About Unfermented, Maybe why some white teas are high in stimulation?
> >> Or maybe because theyre buds?????
> >
> > Exactly: buds have more caffeine than mature leaves.
> >
> >> [...]
> >> Oh one more thing are there oolong type teas made like puers?
> >
> > Yes:
> >
> > http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcar...ase=you+zi+cha
>
> Let's take this a bit further. A Pu'erh can be "raw" (green) or "cooked"
> (oxidized/fermented) when it enters the aging process in its cake (bing),
> brick (feng),

That's "fang", by the way.

> or bird nest (tuo) form. Surely there are variations in the degree
> of cookedness in the leaf on the way to storage, and thus anything
> in the middle would be an "Oolong" by definition, right?

"Cookedness"? You mean oxidation before firing, right? If so, yes,
but usually "cooked" means the tea hanging around damp and warm for a
while to accelerate - simulate? - the microbial action that takes
longer with raw pu'er.

> Except that once the tea enters true poo production, it's Pu'erh not
> Oolong. In the case of the tea stuffed pomelo that babelcarp speaks
> of, I take it the actual tea therein is/was Oolong? But, something
> deep inside me says that ultimately it tea can be Oolong or tea can
> be Pu'erh, but it's got to make up its mind and claim its allegance
> at the end.

I think your question makes more sense if you generalize it: the use
of the fruit skin as container during microbial aging seems, well,
superficial. The real question, I think, is: can you make pu'er - or,
less restrictively, hei cha - by starting with oolong or even
black/red tea, or do those nice germs insist on green tea?

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html