I live in Los Angeles, and have the benefit of a Chinatown.
Unfortunately, I don't have great knowledge yet about what an authentic
aged puerh looks like.

Wing Hop Fung, a ginseng, tea, and other chinese product retailer, has
several puerhs for sale, mostly cooked and low quality. They do have
two cakes they claim to be aged. One is selling for $23.99, and the
claim is that it's about 20 years old. The other cake is placed as
being made in the 1950s and sells for $199.99, but it looks nearly
identical to the one they say is 20 years old. They're both green
"Zhongcha" label teas, with wrappers in pretty good condition. I bought
the "20 year" cake out of curiosity, and the leaves are varying shades
of brown (not black), from a dark tan to dark brown and many shades in
between. It's got a good taste, but it's very strong and tastes like a
refined version of other cooked puerh cakes I've had. Unfortunately,
the tea master there didn't know enough English to tell me anything
more about the cakes, and I don't speak any Chinese enough to get
anymore info.

I read that it's nearly impossible to tell how old something is by
looking at it, so I don't know if it merits posting a photo online.

I was just curious if anyone else on here lives in LA and has seen this
store and this cake. Maybe I'll get some samples of aged cakes to
compare the flavor to and report back...

On 2 Dec 2005 00:18:41 -0800, wrote:

>I live in Los Angeles, and have the benefit of a Chinatown.
>Unfortunately, I don't have great knowledge yet about what an authentic
>aged puerh looks like.
>
>Wing Hop Fung, a ginseng, tea, and other chinese product retailer, has
>several puerhs for sale, mostly cooked and low quality. They do have
>two cakes they claim to be aged. One is selling for $23.99, and the
>claim is that it's about 20 years old. The other cake is placed as
>being made in the 1950s and sells for $199.99, but it looks nearly
>identical to the one they say is 20 years old. They're both green
>"Zhongcha" label teas, with wrappers in pretty good condition. I bought
>the "20 year" cake out of curiosity, and the leaves are varying shades
>of brown (not black), from a dark tan to dark brown and many shades in
>between. It's got a good taste, but it's very strong and tastes like a
>refined version of other cooked puerh cakes I've had. Unfortunately,
>the tea master there didn't know enough English to tell me anything
>more about the cakes, and I don't speak any Chinese enough to get
>anymore info.
>
>I read that it's nearly impossible to tell how old something is by
>looking at it, so I don't know if it merits posting a photo online.
>
>I was just curious if anyone else on here lives in LA and has seen this
>store and this cake. Maybe I'll get some samples of aged cakes to
>compare the flavor to and report back...


A 20 year cake for $24, not hardly! A 1950s cake for $200 not hardly!

Look, a 1950s cake can easily fetch $1,000 or more, no vendor would
sell it this cheap, especially if they are anything close to being a
"Tea Master". If they are in the Tea Business and know puerh at all
they would market an authentic 20 or 55 year old to knowledgeable tea
people who would pay big bucks.

Authentic $20 year old puerh sells for about $1 a gram, 55 year old
puerh sells for $2-$3 a gram. I have heard any number of "tales"
explaining why much lower priced deals are possible, yet I have NEVER
seen one that was authentic, NEVER.

Email me offline if you want to discuss this in detail.

Mike Petro
http://www.pu-erh.net

Those are typical aged prices you see on the Chinese auction site
TaoBao. All you will see is the Zhongcha logo with maybe CNNP
labeling. Supposedly each wrapper has enough blemishes so you can
chase down the certificate of production mysteriously kept on file in
some government file cabinet or basement of a factory. I think the
bottom line you have to know the factory taste. If it doesn't taste
good now it won't in your lifetime. I have 30 year old loose leaf puer
and 20 year old cooked Xiaguan. There is no real difference in what I
taste today. Aged fermentation doesn't guarantee anything. Menghai
recent crop prices are already at $20. I'd buy recent crops and let
others spend their money on aged puer. When I spend more than a
penny/gram for tea then I'm simply indulging myself.

Jim

wrote:
> I live in Los Angeles, and have the benefit of a Chinatown.
> Unfortunately, I don't have great knowledge yet about what an authentic
> aged puerh looks like.
>
> Wing Hop Fung, a ginseng, tea, and other chinese product retailer, has
> several puerhs for sale, mostly cooked and low quality. They do have
> two cakes they claim to be aged. One is selling for $23.99, and the
> claim is that it's about 20 years old. The other cake is placed as
> being made in the 1950s and sells for $199.99, but it looks nearly
> identical to the one they say is 20 years old. They're both green
> "Zhongcha" label teas, with wrappers in pretty good condition. I bought
> the "20 year" cake out of curiosity, and the leaves are varying shades
> of brown (not black), from a dark tan to dark brown and many shades in
> between. It's got a good taste, but it's very strong and tastes like a
> refined version of other cooked puerh cakes I've had. Unfortunately,
> the tea master there didn't know enough English to tell me anything
> more about the cakes, and I don't speak any Chinese enough to get
> anymore info.
>
> I read that it's nearly impossible to tell how old something is by
> looking at it, so I don't know if it merits posting a photo online.
>
> I was just curious if anyone else on here lives in LA and has seen this
> store and this cake. Maybe I'll get some samples of aged cakes to
> compare the flavor to and report back...

Space Cowboy wrote:
> Those are typical aged prices you see on the Chinese auction site
> TaoBao.

Jim, I can assure you that even in China you will not get a 50 year
old bingcha for $200. If someone offers you one at that price they are
ripping you off somehow. I am extremely confident of this fact.

Auction sites are the least trustworthy place to buy antique puerh
anyway. Remember the compressed block of red tea you found on TaoBao
that was being passed off as a 1950s puerh! Scams like this are common
on the auction sites and they are often much more subtle than this and
harder to detect.

http://tinyurl.com/9g73z

The only way to buy aged puerh, should you so desire, is to buy it from
someone you know and trust, OR to taste the actual tea you buying
BEFORE you buy it, assuming you have a taste memory of other authentic
aged puerhs.

Also dont forget that aged cooked puerh will seldom develop much more
maturity after 7-10 years, so paying extra for 20 -30 year old Shu Pu
has little return on the investment. It is only the Sheng Pu or raw
puerh that *continues* to develop and mature after 20-30 years. I have
30 year old samples of both Shu and Sheng and I can say that only the
Sheng is worth the premium.

Mike.
www.pu-erh.net

I don't recommend buying the first 50yo $200 bingcha you find on
TaoBao. It is still Caveat Emptor and do some homework. You can say
what you want about TaoBao but it ain't the shaddy black market prices
of friends who you trust. It's the nature of the way the game is
played where sellers can barely survive one negative feedback. I know,
I know the prices for whatever are too cheap and expect to pay much
more at some Western website who is banking on your stupidity. My
biggest frustration with TaoBao I don't know Chinese and I can't order
a damn thing. If I'm in China I'm getting anything I want delivered
for less than 10y. It beats standing in line at the market behind the
lowai.

Jim

Mike Petro wrote:
> Space Cowboy wrote:
> > Those are typical aged prices you see on the Chinese auction site
> > TaoBao.
>
> Jim, I can assure you that even in China you will not get a 50 year
> old bingcha for $200. If someone offers you one at that price they are
> ripping you off somehow. I am extremely confident of this fact.

I'm trying to focus my attention on new Sheng Pu cakes because at least
that way I can verify their age because they're brand new and I'm the
first or second retail sale.

But I would like to try some more older aged Sheng Pu to get an idea of
what to expect or work towards. I'm always surprised that tea vendors
don't sell more samples of their aged cakes, because they could
probably pull off more profit that way: for example, one could sell
whole 350 gram cakes for $200 each OR sell 10g samples at $6-$10 per
sample and make as much or more, and I could spend less up front as a
consumer for as much tea as I like. Seems like a win-win situation for
everyone if there's enough of the aged stuff to go around. I can spend
$200 and get samples of several cakes instead of just one, they make a
little more money off their investment...

good idea? bad idea? impractical?

One is selling for $23.99, and the claim is that it's about 20 years
old. ???

I think it is too cheap to be really 20 years old.
from cost, inflation, preserved expense,transportation, tax revenue,
profit to calculate the price, then judge genuine or fake.

Learn more about pu-erh tea. http://en.puerh.info

On 4 Dec 2005 01:41:43 -0800, wrote:

>Learn more about pu-erh tea. http://en.puerh.info

This is the latest of several links from who has
recently posted several marketing inspired links disguised as
informational sites. Lots of good information on puerh here. My main
complaint is that virtually all of it is blatantly copied from other
websites and the original authors were not given any credit
whatsoever. There isnt anything original at all on this site!

Sites that were directly plagiarized include:
this newsgroup
the RFDT FAQ
the Tea Hub website
Tea Hub's blog
the Holy Mountain Tea website
CofffeeTea.About.Com
teasetc.com
Pu-erhTea.com
the Happyherbalist.com
puerhcha.com
"The Jasmine Pearl" tea vendor
Tentea.com
tributetea.com
teacoffeeasia.com
SevenCups.com
StashTea.com
OrientalPharmacy.com
The late great "Tea Man" teatalk.com

Compiling all this information together in one spot is commendable, I
have done something similar on my site, but taking credit for
authoring it is not. It is a common courtesy to provide an Author's
credit (or link) when quoting passages in their entirety. I only found
2 articles on the entire site that I could not attribute to someone
else, and that's probably because I didn't look hard enough.

BTW, www.china-teapot.com ) (the source of
these recent marketing inspired info sites) also copied many of their
tea descriptions, FOR TEA THEY ARE SELLING, directly from other
websites, for example "We Review Teas" was plagiarized for a Da Fang
description, Holy Mountain was plagiarized for their Mao Feng
description, and Seven Cups was plagiarized for their Yin Gou Mei Cha
description. The list goes on and on as most of the tea descriptions
on this site were similarly plagiarized. I suspect that many of these
vendors who were copied will not like it as I am sure they did not
give their permission and most consider their work copyrighted.

I personally find such blatant plagiarism to be very distasteful, not
to mention unethical and probably illegal in many countries. This may
be acceptable in China, but it is not acceptable here in the West!
Consequently, I copied this post to many of the sites who were
infringed upon and I hope they voice their displeasure.

What does this say about the teapots these guys sell, not to mention
their business ethics?

Mike Petro
http://www.pu-erh.net

Mike, Thank you for bring this to our attention. After browsing through
their web site, I found that our Pu-erh Talk (
http://www.teahub.com/puerhtalk.htm ) section was bluntly plagiarized .
Neither did they seek our permission, nor did they credit us for the hard
work. This is quite outrages to us.

Rain, or Fan Liu rather, please respect copyright of other people. As a
Chinese, I am especially shamed by your or your company's behavior.

Linda
www.teahub.com

Hi Jason,

There are a few vendors that sell samples of their aged sheng cakes,
among them Tea Hub and Hou De. Hou De has the advantage of being in
Houston and thus offering free and short shipping (assuming you're in
North America, that is). Hou De also has smaller samples, where as Tea
Hub, to my knowledge, only offers 100g at a time.

Nico


wrote:
> I'm trying to focus my attention on new Sheng Pu cakes because at least
> that way I can verify their age because they're brand new and I'm the
> first or second retail sale.
>
> But I would like to try some more older aged Sheng Pu to get an idea of
> what to expect or work towards. I'm always surprised that tea vendors
> don't sell more samples of their aged cakes, because they could
> probably pull off more profit that way: for example, one could sell
> whole 350 gram cakes for $200 each OR sell 10g samples at $6-$10 per
> sample and make as much or more, and I could spend less up front as a
> consumer for as much tea as I like. Seems like a win-win situation for
> everyone if there's enough of the aged stuff to go around. I can spend
> $200 and get samples of several cakes instead of just one, they make a
> little more money off their investment...
>
> good idea? bad idea? impractical?

Dear Mike,
Well spoken on that comment. Actually I was just wodering is you are are Chinese as you guys are speaking so in to Tea. Would love to meet one day with you all and share with you my collection of tea.
I am also amase that as you all are using the chinese words, do you all know what it means? if you all do, you can understand even deeper what is it being called such a way. or the code like 7542 or 8582 or 7532....

Happy Drinking

YL SOH

Space Cowboy wrote:
> When I spend more than a
> penny/gram for tea then I'm simply indulging myself.

Anything that costs more than twenty-eight cents an ounce is an
indulgence?
You must tell me where you buy your tea so cheaply, and just what you
get for the money.


stePH
--
NP: Ars Nova, "Danse Macabre"

Any well stocked ethnic store will carry penny/gram tea. That's what
the rest of the world only can afford. The British might indulge a
little more at 2cents/gram and the Japanese simply don't produce enough
and believe in trade tariffs.

Jim

stePH wrote:
> Space Cowboy wrote:
> > When I spend more than a
> > penny/gram for tea then I'm simply indulging myself.
>
> Anything that costs more than twenty-eight cents an ounce is an
> indulgence?
> You must tell me where you buy your tea so cheaply, and just what you
> get for the money.
>
>
> stePH
> --
> NP: Ars Nova, "Danse Macabre"

Space 12/5/05


> Any well stocked ethnic store will carry penny/gram tea. That's what
> the rest of the world only can afford. The British might indulge a
> little more at 2cents/gram and the Japanese simply don't produce enough
> and believe in trade tariffs.
>
> Jim
>
> stePH wrote:
>> Space Cowboy wrote:
>>> When I spend more than a
>>> penny/gram for tea then I'm simply indulging myself.
>>
>> Anything that costs more than twenty-eight cents an ounce is an
>> indulgence?
>> You must tell me where you buy your tea so cheaply, and just what you
>> get for the money.


With a nod of approval toward those poor folk who serve hot water from a
kettle under the name of white tea, and for whom any tea would be an
indulgence, let us take a moment to appreciate the dynamic relative aspects
of value and price. It's more often than not the company in which we drink
that counts.

Michael

Michael