This post concerns water and tea. Allow me to begin with an analogical
digression.

Several decades ago, as a pre-professional nerd, I read that sugar is
critical in many foods not as a source of sweetness per se, but as a
flavor potentiator like unto salt or MSG. This seemed possibly relevant
to the consuming problem of rapid flavor decay in so-called Juicy Fruit
gum. So I took a wad of post-sapid chicle, wrapped it around a pinch of
table sugar, and was astonished to find it entirely revivified.
Fortunately for Wrigley's fortunes (and my remaining teeth), I was too
lazy to make this a regular practice, and none of my cohort expressed
interest in such a life-extension methodology.

Back to tea: I keep being disappointed on home-brewing rare and fine
wonders that delighted in-store or at others' homes. Water is clearly a
factor, most likely due to absence of needed solutes rather than
presence of contaminants. But I'm too lazy and cheap to schlep gallons
of bottled solvent, and also (after several years in the UK) averse to
de-scaling the kettle. So of late, I've been trying some post-brew
experiments. These have taken the form of adding a dash of bottled water
to the gaiwan before dousing with hot tap water. I use mineral rather
than spring water, to get a good slug of ions in the small addendum.

This has worked pretty well. So far, I've used Gerolsteiner, which may
not be an optimal mineral balance. (It is, however, the only one
available here in the woods.) It's still less than convenient, and makes
it that bit harder to control brewing temperature.

So recently I've tried adding mineral water to the finished brew. This
goes against common wisdom about the effect of various solutes
(including oxygen) on extraction chemistry. -Common wisdom, I might add,
absent widely published evidence. Thus far, the effect has been just as
beneficial. Today, for example, I brewed a sample of Old Dong Ting from
NYC's wonderful Tea Gallery. (Disclosu commercial connection; I spend
money there at every opportunity.) This exquisite tea went "flat" after
just three steeps in tap water. Adding a few ml of mineral water to the
poured cup added/restored multiple layers of sweetness, fruit,
complexity. And seemed to smooth over hints of roughness, somehow
bringing the smoke/roast into better balance with more intrinsic leaf
notes. (Kind of like the difference between 10- and 15-year-old
Laphroaig, for those of that persuasion.) I took out five more very
tasty steeps before going out to grease the Kioti.

Now, here's the punch line: the bio-effect of a little added mineral
water seemed to persist. I alternated "spiked" and tap-water brews,
rinsing the cup between, and found them almost indistinguishable.
Perhaps this shouldn't be surprising: calcium is a dominant mediator of
cellular and neural activity, and charging the taste buds and proximal
tissue with divalent ions might have a persistent effect. Any biologists
here able to comment?

Anyway, the provisional conclusion: a very small addition of minerals
can apparently have a profound, persistent and positive effect on
perceived quality in brewed tea, without much effort. Your mouthfeel may
vary.

-DM

On Sun, 05 Mar 2006 17:03:55 GMT, DogMa >
wrote:

>a very small addition of minerals
>can apparently have a profound, persistent and positive effect on
>perceived quality in brewed tea

You could try some sugar, too! :-)

Ian
--
http://sundry.ws/

Hi -

Missed you this time of my visiting NY and Tea Gallery.
The idea of mineral water being added to already brewed tea is very
interesting. The majority of the replies seem to miss the fact that seem the
most important to me - that opposite to adding minerals during brewing this
method cannot influence the extraction. So, it may improve 1. taste
mediation or (my current thinking) 2. increase dissoacoative properties of
water as a solvent and thus prevent the formation of chemical complexes and
therefore help "presenting" the extracts to the tastebuds in a better way.
Or both.
One way or another - it would be interesting to study the chemistry and
biomediation of these post-brew additives. May also be a serious
contribution not only to tea but to drinks in general and may be even food.

Good job, DogMa xian sheng.

Sasha.


"DogMa" > wrote in message
...
> This post concerns water and tea. Allow me to begin with an analogical
> digression.
>
> Several decades ago, as a pre-professional nerd, I read that sugar is
> critical in many foods not as a source of sweetness per se, but as a
> flavor potentiator like unto salt or MSG. This seemed possibly relevant to
> the consuming problem of rapid flavor decay in so-called Juicy Fruit gum.
> So I took a wad of post-sapid chicle, wrapped it around a pinch of table
> sugar, and was astonished to find it entirely revivified. Fortunately for
> Wrigley's fortunes (and my remaining teeth), I was too lazy to make this a
> regular practice, and none of my cohort expressed interest in such a
> life-extension methodology.
>
> Back to tea: I keep being disappointed on home-brewing rare and fine
> wonders that delighted in-store or at others' homes. Water is clearly a
> factor, most likely due to absence of needed solutes rather than presence
> of contaminants. But I'm too lazy and cheap to schlep gallons of bottled
> solvent, and also (after several years in the UK) averse to de-scaling the
> kettle. So of late, I've been trying some post-brew experiments. These
> have taken the form of adding a dash of bottled water to the gaiwan before
> dousing with hot tap water. I use mineral rather than spring water, to get
> a good slug of ions in the small addendum.
>
> This has worked pretty well. So far, I've used Gerolsteiner, which may not
> be an optimal mineral balance. (It is, however, the only one available
> here in the woods.) It's still less than convenient, and makes it that bit
> harder to control brewing temperature.
>
> So recently I've tried adding mineral water to the finished brew. This
> goes against common wisdom about the effect of various solutes (including
> oxygen) on extraction chemistry. -Common wisdom, I might add, absent
> widely published evidence. Thus far, the effect has been just as
> beneficial. Today, for example, I brewed a sample of Old Dong Ting from
> NYC's wonderful Tea Gallery. (Disclosu commercial connection; I spend
> money there at every opportunity.) This exquisite tea went "flat" after
> just three steeps in tap water. Adding a few ml of mineral water to the
> poured cup added/restored multiple layers of sweetness, fruit, complexity.
> And seemed to smooth over hints of roughness, somehow bringing the
> smoke/roast into better balance with more intrinsic leaf notes. (Kind of
> like the difference between 10- and 15-year-old Laphroaig, for those of
> that persuasion.) I took out five more very tasty steeps before going out
> to grease the Kioti.
>
> Now, here's the punch line: the bio-effect of a little added mineral water
> seemed to persist. I alternated "spiked" and tap-water brews, rinsing the
> cup between, and found them almost indistinguishable. Perhaps this
> shouldn't be surprising: calcium is a dominant mediator of cellular and
> neural activity, and charging the taste buds and proximal tissue with
> divalent ions might have a persistent effect. Any biologists here able to
> comment?
>
> Anyway, the provisional conclusion: a very small addition of minerals can
> apparently have a profound, persistent and positive effect on perceived
> quality in brewed tea, without much effort. Your mouthfeel may vary.
>
> -DM

[dog ma speaks of dabbing in a bit of mineral water to rejuvenate and
inspire his cup]

snip

> Today, for example, I brewed a sample of Old Dong Ting from
> NYC's wonderful Tea Gallery. (Disclosu commercial connection; I spend
> money there at every opportunity.) This exquisite tea went "flat" after
> just three steeps in tap water. Adding a few ml of mineral water to the
> poured cup added/restored multiple layers of sweetness, fruit,
> complexity. And seemed to smooth over hints of roughness, somehow
> bringing the smoke/roast into better balance with more intrinsic leaf
> notes. (Kind of like the difference between 10- and 15-year-old
> Laphroaig, for those of that persuasion.) I took out five more very
> tasty steeps before going out to grease the Kioti.

Extraordinary. I LOVE that Old Dong Ting, it's so rich and roasty and
balanced and friendly. I'm going to try your mineral water experiment first
thing.

> Now, here's the punch line: the bio-effect of a little added mineral
> water seemed to persist. I alternated "spiked" and tap-water brews,
> rinsing the cup between, and found them almost indistinguishable.
> Perhaps this shouldn't be surprising: calcium is a dominant mediator of
> cellular and neural activity, and charging the taste buds and proximal
> tissue with divalent ions might have a persistent effect. Any biologists
> here able to comment?

Putting the technical chemistry aside because it ain't my thing, are you
saying that you added a bit of mineral water *once* and its effect persisted
through steeps, even after rinsing? That the bit of mineral water affected
the tea leaves *and* your tastebuds? Anyway, I'll be experimenting soon.

> Anyway, the provisional conclusion: a very small addition of minerals
> can apparently have a profound, persistent and positive effect on
> perceived quality in brewed tea, without much effort. Your mouthfeel may
> vary.

"Perceived," eh? Well that's good enough.

Michael

Michael Plant wrote:
> ... are you
> saying that you added a bit of mineral water *once* and its effect persisted
> through steeps, even after rinsing? That the bit of mineral water affected
> the tea leaves *and* your tastebuds? Anyway, I'll be experimenting soon.

Yes, especially the latter - it worked even when added mineral water
never touched the leaves. Implication: remanent effect on tongue
physiology and/or mental construction of taste experience.

-DM

DogMa > writes:

> [...pre- or post-brew mineral doping enhances liquor...]

Let's ignore, for the moment, the very surprising post-brew result.
If adding small quantities (the exact quantities we aren't sure of
yet) of certain minerals to brewing tea makes it taste better, then
maybe those - what, Mongolian? - rocks some people put in their
kettles actually help. They release *some* amount of minerals in hot
water, right? It's a question of amount, isn't it?

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

I've always felt if I could taste an eyedrop of something on my tongue
I could taste it certainly in a cup of tea. Tea is a magnifier of
taste. If I can taste a drop of mineral water on my tongue I can taste
it in the tea but not enough to make a wager on clinical trials. It
maybe the whatever is still suspended in solution and just registers on
the tastebuds more than binding to the chemical components of tea. I
don't think a chemical analysis of a tea brew will even mean it tastes
good.

Jim

Lewis Perin wrote:
> DogMa > writes:
>
> > [...pre- or post-brew mineral doping enhances liquor...]
>
> Let's ignore, for the moment, the very surprising post-brew result.
> If adding small quantities (the exact quantities we aren't sure of
> yet) of certain minerals to brewing tea makes it taste better, then
> maybe those - what, Mongolian? - rocks some people put in their
> kettles actually help. They release *some* amount of minerals in hot
> water, right? It's a question of amount, isn't it?
>
> /Lew
> ---
> Lew Perin /
> http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

"Lewis Perin" > wrote in message
news
> DogMa > writes:
>
>> [...pre- or post-brew mineral doping enhances liquor...]
>
> Let's ignore, for the moment, the very surprising post-brew result.
> If adding small quantities (the exact quantities we aren't sure of
> yet) of certain minerals to brewing tea makes it taste better, then
> maybe those - what, Mongolian? - rocks some people put in their
> kettles actually help. They release *some* amount of minerals in hot
> water, right? It's a question of amount, isn't it?
>
> /Lew
> ---
> Lew Perin /
> http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

Lew -

As we discussed earlier, I doubt that these rocks can give away even
micrograms or coupe of milligrams of any "material" in their current usage.
That was, as I pointed out to you during our last meeting, my opinion as a
geochemist. However, as I noted then, the presence of mica in these rocks
allow for some very unusual microchemistry and DogMa's experiments now open
door to a more positive opinion on the existance of such effect.
Another possibility would be the presence of titanomagnetite, which, under
certain conditions can be a very good absorber (or attractor) of H+ ion,
thus being a mediator of pH. Not that I claim that this is how it happens.
I am planning to have a better look at "the rock" and make a thin section of
it in addition to big geochem panel. I just need to find a place for it in
my current work

Sasha.

DogMa > writes:

> [...brilliant results adding a splash of mineral water...]

Hey Dog: It's been a few days since your original post. You must have
tried adding Gerolsteiner to your favorite beverage again since then,
no? Do we have reproducibility?

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

Lewis Perin wrote:
> Hey Dog: It's been a few days since your original post. You must have
> tried adding Gerolsteiner to your favorite beverage again since then,
> no? Do we have reproducibility?

Perhaps not by scientific standards, but I've tried the trick on four
oolongs of very different character, through multiple steeps, and it
seems to work similarly. Least effect was on a Hairy Crab that actually
brews up OK in the overly pure local water for some reason.

I'm almost out of Gerolsteiner and don't like it much anyways. Next step
is to try pure calcium and magnesium salts, and a few other mineral waters.

Current theory on the persistent effect: maybe instead of something
fancy like cortical reset or charging tasting tissues with excess ions,
it's just solutes leaking out from nooks and crannies in the mouth.
Anyone else here get repeats on tasty teas hours after drinking? I'm
guessing that that's why.

-DM

Oh yeah, for the nerds and general disputants: I find useful the
distinction between flavor addition and flavor potentiation. The
potentiator may have taste of its own, like salt, sugar, or MSG; but its
effect on the mix will be out of proportion to its intrinsic taste.
Things like miracle berry or artichokes+milk are extreme examples.

DogMa > wrote:
>Lewis Perin wrote:
>> Hey Dog: It's been a few days since your original post. You must have
>> tried adding Gerolsteiner to your favorite beverage again since then,
>> no? Do we have reproducibility?
>
>Perhaps not by scientific standards, but I've tried the trick on four
>oolongs of very different character, through multiple steeps, and it
>seems to work similarly. Least effect was on a Hairy Crab that actually
>brews up OK in the overly pure local water for some reason.
>
>I'm almost out of Gerolsteiner and don't like it much anyways. Next step
>is to try pure calcium and magnesium salts, and a few other mineral waters.

Before doing anything else, try making a cup with deionized water. It
has a very different flavour to it than tea made with tap water around
here.... really quite boring and almost flat. But get a sense of what
it tastes like.

>Oh yeah, for the nerds and general disputants: I find useful the
>distinction between flavor addition and flavor potentiation. The
>potentiator may have taste of its own, like salt, sugar, or MSG; but its
>effect on the mix will be out of proportion to its intrinsic taste.
>Things like miracle berry or artichokes+milk are extreme examples.

Right, exactly. Salts do this quite a lot, but I don't have a modern
citation for the phenomenon, or any proposal for a good mechanism. I
am satisfied to sit back and enjoy it.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."