Gunpowder green
 

Most of you are probably familiar with the gunpowder green tea sold in
most Asian markets. Until recently, I didn't think much of it, and I
assumed its usual dirt cheap price tag was an example of getting what
one pays for. But several weeks ago, I gave it another try when nothing
else was available, and I have to change my opinion. It's a reasonably
pleasant brew *if* you pay attention to steeping time, i.e. no more
than one--possibly two--minutes. Also, I tend to like a rather strong
infusion, usually using two teaspoons/bags where "normal" people use
one. For gunpowder, one teaspoon is enough for pretty much anyone.
Pretty much any deviation from this results in the bitter, tanniny brew
that I--and others, I would imagine--associate with gunpowder. Thoughts?

Gunpowder green
 

One teaspoon,one minute. I am warned. Toci
ah2323 wrote:
> Most of you are probably familiar with the gunpowder green tea sold in
> most Asian markets. Until recently, I didn't think much of it, and I
> assumed its usual dirt cheap price tag was an example of getting what
> one pays for. But several weeks ago, I gave it another try when nothing
> else was available, and I have to change my opinion. It's a reasonably
> pleasant brew *if* you pay attention to steeping time, i.e. no more
> than one--possibly two--minutes. Also, I tend to like a rather strong
> infusion, usually using two teaspoons/bags where "normal" people use
> one. For gunpowder, one teaspoon is enough for pretty much anyone.
> Pretty much any deviation from this results in the bitter, tanniny brew
> that I--and others, I would imagine--associate with gunpowder. Thoughts?

Gunpowder green
 

you hit the nail on the head

"ah2323" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Most of you are probably familiar with the gunpowder green tea sold in
> most Asian markets. Until recently, I didn't think much of it, and I
> assumed its usual dirt cheap price tag was an example of getting what
> one pays for. But several weeks ago, I gave it another try when nothing
> else was available, and I have to change my opinion. It's a reasonably
> pleasant brew *if* you pay attention to steeping time, i.e. no more
> than one--possibly two--minutes. Also, I tend to like a rather strong
> infusion, usually using two teaspoons/bags where "normal" people use
> one. For gunpowder, one teaspoon is enough for pretty much anyone.
> Pretty much any deviation from this results in the bitter, tanniny brew
> that I--and others, I would imagine--associate with gunpowder. Thoughts?
>

Gunpowder green
 

ah2323 > wrote:
>Most of you are probably familiar with the gunpowder green tea sold in
>most Asian markets. Until recently, I didn't think much of it, and I
>assumed its usual dirt cheap price tag was an example of getting what
>one pays for. But several weeks ago, I gave it another try when nothing
>else was available, and I have to change my opinion. It's a reasonably
>pleasant brew *if* you pay attention to steeping time, i.e. no more
>than one--possibly two--minutes. Also, I tend to like a rather strong
>infusion, usually using two teaspoons/bags where "normal" people use
>one. For gunpowder, one teaspoon is enough for pretty much anyone.
>Pretty much any deviation from this results in the bitter, tanniny brew
>that I--and others, I would imagine--associate with gunpowder. Thoughts?

This is all pretty true, but don't forget temperature issues. Steeping
gunpowder tea in boiling water will result in the most bitter and astringent
mess you ever put in your mouth, even with a short steep. But careful
control of temperature and steep time can make a very pleasant cup from
some of the cheapest green.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Gunpowder green
 

It's a strong green to me, even brewed briefly. I think it's the best
tea for brewing N. African style - with sugar, mint, and maybe orange-
blossom water. It stands up to that. But it wouldn't be my usual Chinese
green.

Best,

Rick.

ah2323 > wrote:
> Most of you are probably familiar with the gunpowder green tea sold in
> most Asian markets. Until recently, I didn't think much of it, and I
> assumed its usual dirt cheap price tag was an example of getting what
> one pays for. But several weeks ago, I gave it another try when nothing
> else was available, and I have to change my opinion. It's a reasonably
> pleasant brew *if* you pay attention to steeping time, i.e. no more
> than one--possibly two--minutes. Also, I tend to like a rather strong
> infusion, usually using two teaspoons/bags where "normal" people use
> one. For gunpowder, one teaspoon is enough for pretty much anyone.
> Pretty much any deviation from this results in the bitter, tanniny brew
> that I--and others, I would imagine--associate with gunpowder. Thoughts?

Gunpowder green
 

It occurred to me, but there is so much contradictory information about
water temperature... At my local food co-op, there is an
"informational" poster above the bulk tea section telling customers how
to brew their tea. It claims really high (boiling) temperatures are
best for both taste and health benefits of all teas. I *know* that's
not the case in re to taste; can't speak in regard to health, but even
there I've heard that too-high temps used on green tea kill the little
anti-cancerettes. At my workplace, the kitchenettes have special
faucets that dispense 190 degree water. I don't know if it's filtered
in any way, and I know purists insist that you have to heat the water
from a cold temp, but this water produces the best tea I've ever tasted
outside of really nice Chinese/Japanese restaurants.

But back to gunpowder green: yeah, water temperature is important, but
not as important as the other stuff. I usually wait 30 secs.-1 min.
after the water boils, and that is usually sufficient. Also, it's not a
good idea to pour the water directly on the tea.


Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
> This is all pretty true, but don't forget temperature issues. Steeping
> gunpowder tea in boiling water will result in the most bitter and astringent
> mess you ever put in your mouth, even with a short steep. But careful
> control of temperature and steep time can make a very pleasant cup from
> some of the cheapest green.
> --scott
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Gunpowder green
 

I boil water and vary everything else. Know your altitude because you
use it to your advantage. For me water boils at 202F. I use a tall
cylindrical glass pot and hit the wall of the pot with the water which
rolls down creating a tumbling effect too initially infuse the leaves.
The higher the water on the pot the gentler the tumbling, lower more
vigorous. Glass radiates heat so greens and oolongs don't overcook
that easily. Sometimes you have an undercooked black but a little
longer in the pot takes care of that. I think nutrients and tea taste
goes together. I try to maximized the taste in the first pot. Tea
taste is independent from cost. Everybody has a method to their
madness and discovering your own makes life more sane. America has the
attitude where everything has to be perfect the first time, aka the
excon Martha Stewart schtick. I think you learn more about yourself
from doing and doing and doing over the years,decades,lifetime
something as simple as making tea. I like teas that reveal themselves
more from persistance than favorable first impession. I'm working on
my first aged Formosa oolong where that is the case. And now I can't
wait for another order of shu to arrive. I drifted a little here but I
just went through another week of remodeling. My 17x14 American
Standard undermount bathroom sink didn't fit the precut opening in the
22 x 37 3cm India Shivakaski vanity granite slab I got on the cheap. I
found a 17x14 Kohler that does fit. The AS uses outside rim to rim
measurements and the Kohler interior rim to rim. Nothing like standard
measurements.

Jim

PS For those who think the Chinese play games with tea most slabs are
only 2cm with attached 3cm bullnose. The extra cm is wood base. The
most beautiful slabs from any where in the world, South Dakota. Friday
night is a good time to hit the big box stores to have things taken out
of boxes so you can make measurements.

ah2323 wrote:
> It occurred to me, but there is so much contradictory information about
> water temperature... At my local food co-op, there is an
> "informational" poster above the bulk tea section telling customers how
> to brew their tea. It claims really high (boiling) temperatures are
> best for both taste and health benefits of all teas. I *know* that's
> not the case in re to taste; can't speak in regard to health, but even
> there I've heard that too-high temps used on green tea kill the little
> anti-cancerettes. At my workplace, the kitchenettes have special
> faucets that dispense 190 degree water. I don't know if it's filtered
> in any way, and I know purists insist that you have to heat the water
> from a cold temp, but this water produces the best tea I've ever tasted
> outside of really nice Chinese/Japanese restaurants.
>
> But back to gunpowder green: yeah, water temperature is important, but
> not as important as the other stuff. I usually wait 30 secs.-1 min.
> after the water boils, and that is usually sufficient. Also, it's not a
> good idea to pour the water directly on the tea.
>
>
> Scott Dorsey wrote:
> >
> > This is all pretty true, but don't forget temperature issues. Steeping
> > gunpowder tea in boiling water will result in the most bitter and astringent
> > mess you ever put in your mouth, even with a short steep. But careful
> > control of temperature and steep time can make a very pleasant cup from
> > some of the cheapest green.
> > --scott
> > --
> > "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Gunpowder green
 

ah2323 wrote:
> At my workplace, the kitchenettes have special
> faucets that dispense 190 degree water. I don't know if it's filtered
> in any way, and I know purists insist that you have to heat the water
> from a cold temp, but this water produces the best tea I've ever tasted
> outside of really nice Chinese/Japanese restaurants.

Hot water dispensers are generally for potable water, to make instant
coffee, cocoa, tea or whatever, and I'm sure the ones at your workplace
are no different.

The one at my workplace puts out anywhere between 165F and 185F
depending on various factors beyond my knowledge. But for English
Breakfast I just finish the cup in the microwave for 30 seconds, and
for delicate greens I let the water stand a few minutes until the
temperature goes down ... I've got a thermometer to let me know when
it's in the right range. Sometimes, I also dispense a little cold
water into the cup before topping it off with hot, to help bring the
temp down quicker.


stePH
--
I'll brew another pot of ambiguity.

Gunpowder green
 

ah2323 > wrote:
>It occurred to me, but there is so much contradictory information about
>water temperature... At my local food co-op, there is an
>"informational" poster above the bulk tea section telling customers how
>to brew their tea. It claims really high (boiling) temperatures are
>best for both taste and health benefits of all teas. I *know* that's
>not the case in re to taste; can't speak in regard to health, but even
>there I've heard that too-high temps used on green tea kill the little
>anti-cancerettes. At my workplace, the kitchenettes have special
>faucets that dispense 190 degree water. I don't know if it's filtered
>in any way, and I know purists insist that you have to heat the water
>from a cold temp, but this water produces the best tea I've ever tasted
>outside of really nice Chinese/Japanese restaurants.

The problem is that different teas have different optimal temperatures.
For a black tea, and for tisanes, boiling water is almost certainly the
best choice. For green and white teas, boiling is almost certainly going
to be way too hot. But what is correct for one green tea may be too
hot or too cold for another. 190' actually seems a little high for
gunpowder to me.

>But back to gunpowder green: yeah, water temperature is important, but
>not as important as the other stuff. I usually wait 30 secs.-1 min.
>after the water boils, and that is usually sufficient. Also, it's not a
>good idea to pour the water directly on the tea.

Try waiting a little longer and see.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Gunpowder green
 

"stePH" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> ah2323 wrote:
>> Most of you are probably familiar with the gunpowder green tea sold in
>> most Asian markets. Until recently, I didn't think much of it, and I
>> assumed its usual dirt cheap price tag was an example of getting what
>> one pays for. But several weeks ago, I gave it another try when nothing
>> else was available, and I have to change my opinion. It's a reasonably
>> pleasant brew *if* you pay attention to steeping time, i.e. no more
>> than one--possibly two--minutes. Also, I tend to like a rather strong
>> infusion, usually using two teaspoons/bags where "normal" people use
>> one. For gunpowder, one teaspoon is enough for pretty much anyone.
>> Pretty much any deviation from this results in the bitter, tanniny brew
>> that I--and others, I would imagine--associate with gunpowder. Thoughts?
>
> I find the second infusion much better than the first, but I've also
> acquired a taste for the first where I used to pour it down the sink.
> I've also found it's typically good for at least three good infusions.
> And I usually steep it for 1.5 to 2 minutes in 170-175F water.
>
> I've found a store in Portland where I can buy a kilo of "Temple of
> Heaven" for nine bucks. I bought a 125g package for $1.60 just to make
> sure it was good -- it is.

stePH, your 2nd brewed gunpowder is about 80-85% decaffeinated.
http://www.ourdailybrew.com/homedecaf.asp
http://secure.chinamist.com/knowledg.../homedecaf.htm
http://www.teasetc.com/tea/teafacts/caffeine_facts.asp
http://www.inpursuitoftea.com/Search...3&Redirected=Y
(scroll down to 'Our Simple Guidelines for How to Decaffeinate Tea')

And the taste of caffeine is described as "very bitter".
http://home.howstuffworks.com/question480.htm
http://home.howstuffworks.com/caffeine.htm

So caffeine may be the constituent in gunpowder that you find to be
distasteful. I'll bet that you would enjoy cold brewed (once brewed)
gunpowder done in the fridge. It has very low caffeine content.
http://www.austinchronicle.com/issue...ls_health.html

In fact, since January I've been slamming down a cup of cold brewed green
tea immediately before bedtime, yet I'm so sensitive to caffeine (gives me
the jitters) that I had to give up the coffee at the office 15 years ago.

Gunpowder green
 

"ah2323" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> It occurred to me, but there is so much contradictory information about
> water temperature... At my local food co-op, there is an
> "informational" poster above the bulk tea section telling customers how
> to brew their tea. It claims really high (boiling) temperatures are
> best for both taste and health benefits of all teas. I *know* that's
> not the case in re to taste; can't speak in regard to health, but even
> there I've heard that too-high temps used on green tea kill the little
> anti-cancerettes. At my workplace, the kitchenettes have special
> faucets that dispense 190 degree water.

If you are pouring 190F water into a robust ceramic mug, then the resulting
temperature of 10 oz will be about 165-170F when you place your tea in that
water immediately afterward. If you are instead using a delicate ceramic
cup, then your steeping will initiate at a temperature of perhaps 10F hotter
than with a mug. Either way, you are steeping at or below the lowest
temperature limits that Asians insist is optimal, so your personal
preference is for *very* low astringency.

Gunpowder green
 

> The problem is that different teas have different optimal temperatures.
> For a black tea, and for tisanes, boiling water is almost certainly the
> best choice. For green and white teas, boiling is almost certainly going
> to be way too hot. But what is correct for one green tea may be too
> hot or too cold for another. 190' actually seems a little high for
> gunpowder to me.

The darker teas are capable of producing greater astringency than the greens
and the white varieties. And higher brewing temperatures also produce
greater astringency in all varieties. So boiling water goes with Ooling and
black teas in order to produce the maximum astringency that lovers of those
varieties tend to prefer.

Someone who doesn't like astringency (who woudn't normally choose an Oolong
or black) would find a dark variety of tea *less* distasteful if it were
brewed at reduced temperature than if it were brewed using boiling water.

IOW, the "proper" or "recommended" brewing temperature for a particular
variety of tea is for people who prefer that particular variety. However,
for those of us who like to experiment with teas that are definitely not
preferable to our tastes then it is silly to follow the rules of brewing
correctness.

Gunpowder green
 

> "stePH" > wrote in message
> ups.com...


> > I've found a store in Portland where I can buy a kilo of "Temple of
> > Heaven" for nine bucks. I bought a 125g package for $1.60 just to make
> > sure it was good -- it is.

stePH - what is the name of the store in Portland? I'm
going to be there shortly.

Gunpowder green
 

Knack wrote:
> "ah2323" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > At my workplace, the kitchenettes have special
> > faucets that dispense 190 degree water.
>
> If you are pouring 190F water into a robust ceramic mug, then the resulting
> temperature of 10 oz will be about 165-170F when you place your tea in that
> water immediately afterward. If you are instead using a delicate ceramic
> cup, then your steeping will initiate at a temperature of perhaps 10F hotter
> than with a mug.

I dispense into a 12oz paper cup and carry it back to my desk. Then I
take its temperature, which is usually still too hot for anything but
oolong unless (as mentioned before) I dispense a little cold water into
the cup first. Then I pour the contents of the cup into my
"IngenuiTEA" which has the loose leaf already in it.


stePH
--
I'll brew another pot of ambiguity.

Gunpowder green
 

"Knack" > writes:

> > The problem is that different teas have different optimal temperatures.
> > For a black tea, and for tisanes, boiling water is almost certainly the
> > best choice. For green and white teas, boiling is almost certainly going
> > to be way too hot. But what is correct for one green tea may be too
> > hot or too cold for another. 190' actually seems a little high for
> > gunpowder to me.
>
> The darker teas are capable of producing greater astringency than
> the greens and the white varieties.

I don't see much support for this generalization. Can you name a
black or oolong that's as astringent as gunpowder under the same
brewing parameters?

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

Gunpowder green
 

Lewis Perin > wrote:
>"Knack" > writes:
>
>> > The problem is that different teas have different optimal temperatures.
>> > For a black tea, and for tisanes, boiling water is almost certainly the
>> > best choice. For green and white teas, boiling is almost certainly going
>> > to be way too hot. But what is correct for one green tea may be too
>> > hot or too cold for another. 190' actually seems a little high for
>> > gunpowder to me.
>>
>> The darker teas are capable of producing greater astringency than
>> the greens and the white varieties.
>
>I don't see much support for this generalization. Can you name a
>black or oolong that's as astringent as gunpowder under the same
>brewing parameters?

Well, the thing is that black teas have this thickness and richness of
flavour that mellows out and hides the tannic acid.

Green teas don't have much of that, so even if (as the original poster
claims) less tannic acid is extracted, it's more of a problem.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Gunpowder green
 

I love Temple of Heaven SPecial grade. 500g for under $10 at the local
asian market. Slightly sweet to me. BEst steeped a tad below boiling,
and for maybe 3 minutes tops. Can stand up to 3 infusions in my
experience.

Gunpowder green
 

"Lewis Perin" > wrote in message
...
> "Knack" > writes:
>
>> > The problem is that different teas have different optimal temperatures.
>> > For a black tea, and for tisanes, boiling water is almost certainly the
>> > best choice. For green and white teas, boiling is almost certainly
>> > going
>> > to be way too hot. But what is correct for one green tea may be too
>> > hot or too cold for another. 190' actually seems a little high for
>> > gunpowder to me.
>>
>> The darker teas are capable of producing greater astringency than
>> the greens and the white varieties.
>
> I don't see much support for this generalization. Can you name a
> black or oolong that's as astringent as gunpowder under the same
> brewing parameters?

Sorry that I couldn't reply sooner. Been as busy as a bee this week. The
most astringent tea that I ever had was Twinings Irish Breakfast Tea. That
style is commonly known as the most astringent available. "Breakfast tea"
was a designation given to a hearty, robust, full-bodied tea to be drunk in
the morning. The tradition of adding milk to tea began with breakfast blends
in order to smooth out their relatively high astringencies. That is the only
purpose for milk. Irish breakfast tea is so rough that it is typically
served with lots of sugar in addition to the milk, in order to smooth it
out. Traditionally, the English gentry put the sugar and the mlk in the cup
*before* the tea!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Breakfast_tea
http://www.stashtea.com/teatypes.htm
http://igourmet.gourmetfoodmall.com/...p?product=6450

BTW, the use of milk applies similarly to coffee, due to the astringency of
its chlorogenic acid (a tannin). Arabica beans, having lower chlorogenic
acid concentration, make smoother coffee that is less astringent than is
made by cheap robusta beans.
http://www.coffeeresearch.org/science/bittermain.htm

Gunpowder green
 

Knack wrote:

> The tradition of adding milk to tea began with breakfast blends
> in order to smooth out their relatively high astringencies. That is the
> only purpose for milk.

Sure astringent teas take milk and sugar well. But I wouldn't say that's the
only reason. I like some (black) teas better with milk, whether they are
astringent or not.

> Irish breakfast tea is so rough that it is
> typically served with lots of sugar in addition to the milk, in order to
> smooth it out.

Sugar really enhances or changes the taste of some teas. Turkish tea isn't
astringent at all and is typically served with sugar.

Stefan

Gunpowder green
 

"Knack" > writes:

> "Lewis Perin" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Knack" > writes:
> >
> >> [...]
> >> The darker teas are capable of producing greater astringency than
> >> the greens and the white varieties.
> >
> > I don't see much support for this generalization. Can you name a
> > black or oolong that's as astringent as gunpowder under the same
> > brewing parameters?
>
> Sorry that I couldn't reply sooner. Been as busy as a bee this week. The
> most astringent tea that I ever had was Twinings Irish Breakfast Tea. That
> style is commonly known as the most astringent available. "Breakfast tea"
> was a designation given to a hearty, robust, full-bodied tea to be drunk in
> the morning. The tradition of adding milk to tea began with breakfast blends
> in order to smooth out their relatively high astringencies. That is the only
> purpose for milk. Irish breakfast tea is so rough that it is typically
> served with lots of sugar in addition to the milk, in order to smooth it
> out.

Sure, but Chinese black teas typically aren't astringent at all. And
if you brewed nearly any green tea the way you normally brew Irish
Breakfast/Assam, you'd get a very astringent liquor. This doesn't
seem like much of a trend to me.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html