I just received a celadon gaiwan from The Imperial Tea Court in San
Francisco and I'm pretty excited about it. So far I've brewed some Pi
Lo Chun and Tung Ting Jade Oolong in it. Both times I put enough tea
leaves in to uniformly cover the bottom in a relatively thin layer.
Probably about two teaspoons worth. The first infusion was a minute
long with both teas. I noticed that the first infusion tasted slightly
bitter, which is not something I'm used to with the other way I brew
tea (infuser basket in a mug for whatever time the instructions say).
The next couple infusions after the first however, are not bitter, but
not quite as flavorful as my normal brewing method. Should I adjust
the amount of tea leaves, the infusion time, or is this normal? I'm
completely new to gaiwans so any general advice would be helpful as
well.

xDustinx wrote:
> I just received a celadon gaiwan from The Imperial Tea Court in San
> Francisco and I'm pretty excited about it. So far I've brewed some Pi
> Lo Chun and Tung Ting Jade Oolong in it. Both times I put enough tea
> leaves in to uniformly cover the bottom in a relatively thin layer.
> Probably about two teaspoons worth. The first infusion was a minute
> long with both teas. I noticed that the first infusion tasted slightly
> bitter, which is not something I'm used to with the other way I brew
> tea (infuser basket in a mug for whatever time the instructions say).
> The next couple infusions after the first however, are not bitter, but
> not quite as flavorful as my normal brewing method. Should I adjust
> the amount of tea leaves, the infusion time, or is this normal? I'm
> completely new to gaiwans so any general advice would be helpful as
> well.

It takes some fine-tuning, and the answer is that you should adjust
both the amount of leaves and the infusion time for every different tea
you make. I got a little digital scale from Amazon and have been
adhering to a strict one-gram-per-ounce-of-water rule, and that's
really helped me focus on the timing. One other resource that has been
very useful has been blogs such as Chadao and Teamasters that discuss
technique and timing. Chadao members are particularly good about
posting the steep times. I never liked pu'er, but that was because I
was steeping like eight grams of it in a small yixing for two minutes,
and now that my technique is improved I am getting dangerously obsessed
with it.

xDustinx wrote:
> I just received a celadon gaiwan from The Imperial Tea Court in San
> Francisco and I'm pretty excited about it. So far I've brewed some Pi
> Lo Chun and Tung Ting Jade Oolong in it. Both times I put enough tea
> leaves in to uniformly cover the bottom in a relatively thin layer.
> Probably about two teaspoons worth. The first infusion was a minute
> long with both teas. I noticed that the first infusion tasted slightly
> bitter, which is not something I'm used to with the other way I brew
> tea (infuser basket in a mug for whatever time the instructions say).
> The next couple infusions after the first however, are not bitter, but
> not quite as flavorful as my normal brewing method. Should I adjust
> the amount of tea leaves, the infusion time, or is this normal? I'm
> completely new to gaiwans so any general advice would be helpful as
> well.

I may lose some "street-cred" but I really do not like brewing in a
gaiwan. I don't find that it produces any better infusion than any
other method, and I get a lot more personal satisfaction from brewing
in Yixing or straight in the mug with an infuser basket. There are a
few teas that I will brew in my gaiwans, but they are far and few
between. It really is a delicate balance between amount of tea, water,
and water temp. and I find it is much harder to be precise in a gaiwan
vs. yixing. But that is also why it is called skilled brewing I guess,
I say stick with what works best for you personally, but it is fun to
experiment every now and then with new methods and techniques. I find
it easier to start small - less tea and less water and find what works
then scale it up.

- Dominic

Alex wrote:
> xDustinx wrote:
> > I just received a celadon gaiwan from The Imperial Tea Court in San
> > Francisco and I'm pretty excited about it. So far I've brewed some Pi
> > Lo Chun and Tung Ting Jade Oolong in it. Both times I put enough tea
> > leaves in to uniformly cover the bottom in a relatively thin layer.
> > Probably about two teaspoons worth. The first infusion was a minute
> > long with both teas. I noticed that the first infusion tasted slightly
> > bitter, which is not something I'm used to with the other way I brew
> > tea (infuser basket in a mug for whatever time the instructions say).
> > The next couple infusions after the first however, are not bitter, but
> > not quite as flavorful as my normal brewing method. Should I adjust
> > the amount of tea leaves, the infusion time, or is this normal? I'm
> > completely new to gaiwans so any general advice would be helpful as
> > well.
>
> It takes some fine-tuning, and the answer is that you should adjust
> both the amount of leaves and the infusion time for every different tea
> you make. I got a little digital scale from Amazon and have been
> adhering to a strict one-gram-per-ounce-of-water rule, and that's
> really helped me focus on the timing. One other resource that has been
> very useful has been blogs such as Chadao and Teamasters that discuss
> technique and timing. Chadao members are particularly good about
> posting the steep times. I never liked pu'er, but that was because I
> was steeping like eight grams of it in a small yixing for two minutes,
> and now that my technique is improved I am getting dangerously obsessed
> with it.

Thanks for the quick response. I have been reading the Teamasters
blog, which has already helped me considerably. I'm going to check out
the Chadao one. Which scale did you get from Amazon? Picking up a
scale seems like a good idea.

I got the DigiWeigh DW-250BS. It is literally pocket-sized and I take
it with me everywhere. It's kind of crappy though - you always have to
tare twice, because after about two seconds at 0.0 it always goes to
-0.1 for some reason. I also got a little digital thermometer for
Japanese green teas, but I hardly ever use it, because I hardly ever
drink Japanese green teas.

Dominic I agree that yixing is more forgiving, but I think gaiwans are
fine if you watch the clock and make sure that the water is the right
temp. It's also really useful to have a totally neutral way to
evaluate what you are drinking, and they give you the flexibility to
try anything. Anything, including Liu An basket tea - what the hell is
that stuff? Does anyone know how you make it taste good?


xDustinx wrote:
> Alex wrote:
> > xDustinx wrote:
> > > I just received a celadon gaiwan from The Imperial Tea Court in San
> > > Francisco and I'm pretty excited about it. So far I've brewed some Pi
> > > Lo Chun and Tung Ting Jade Oolong in it. Both times I put enough tea
> > > leaves in to uniformly cover the bottom in a relatively thin layer.
> > > Probably about two teaspoons worth. The first infusion was a minute
> > > long with both teas. I noticed that the first infusion tasted slightly
> > > bitter, which is not something I'm used to with the other way I brew
> > > tea (infuser basket in a mug for whatever time the instructions say).
> > > The next couple infusions after the first however, are not bitter, but
> > > not quite as flavorful as my normal brewing method. Should I adjust
> > > the amount of tea leaves, the infusion time, or is this normal? I'm
> > > completely new to gaiwans so any general advice would be helpful as
> > > well.
> >
> > It takes some fine-tuning, and the answer is that you should adjust
> > both the amount of leaves and the infusion time for every different tea
> > you make. I got a little digital scale from Amazon and have been
> > adhering to a strict one-gram-per-ounce-of-water rule, and that's
> > really helped me focus on the timing. One other resource that has been
> > very useful has been blogs such as Chadao and Teamasters that discuss
> > technique and timing. Chadao members are particularly good about
> > posting the steep times. I never liked pu'er, but that was because I
> > was steeping like eight grams of it in a small yixing for two minutes,
> > and now that my technique is improved I am getting dangerously obsessed
> > with it.
>
> Thanks for the quick response. I have been reading the Teamasters
> blog, which has already helped me considerably. I'm going to check out
> the Chadao one. Which scale did you get from Amazon? Picking up a
> scale seems like a good idea.

it was a joke, right ?

Alex wrote:
Anything, including Liu An basket tea - what the hell is
> that stuff? Does anyone know how you make it taste good?
>

Alex wrote:
> I got the DigiWeigh DW-250BS. It is literally pocket-sized and I take
> it with me everywhere.

Hmmm.... now that I've got a timer and a thermometer, I suppose I
should get a scale. 1g per ounce intuitively seems a lot to me, but
without a scale, I've got little idea how much I've shovelling in right
now!

> Dominic I agree that yixing is more forgiving, but I think gaiwans are
> fine if you watch the clock and make sure that the water is the right
> temp.

Why is a yixing more forgiving? I thought they were generally pretty
small as well.

Gavin

7/12/06


>
> xDustinx wrote:
>> I just received a celadon gaiwan from The Imperial Tea Court in San
>> Francisco and I'm pretty excited about it. So far I've brewed some Pi
>> Lo Chun and Tung Ting Jade Oolong in it. Both times I put enough tea
>> leaves in to uniformly cover the bottom in a relatively thin layer.
>> Probably about two teaspoons worth. The first infusion was a minute
>> long with both teas. I noticed that the first infusion tasted slightly
>> bitter, which is not something I'm used to with the other way I brew
>> tea (infuser basket in a mug for whatever time the instructions say).
>> The next couple infusions after the first however, are not bitter, but
>> not quite as flavorful as my normal brewing method. Should I adjust
>> the amount of tea leaves, the infusion time, or is this normal? I'm
>> completely new to gaiwans so any general advice would be helpful as
>> well.
>
> It takes some fine-tuning, and the answer is that you should adjust
> both the amount of leaves and the infusion time for every different tea
> you make. I got a little digital scale from Amazon and have been
> adhering to a strict one-gram-per-ounce-of-water rule, and that's
> really helped me focus on the timing. One other resource that has been
> very useful has been blogs such as Chadao and Teamasters that discuss
> technique and timing. Chadao members are particularly good about
> posting the steep times. I never liked pu'er, but that was because I
> was steeping like eight grams of it in a small yixing for two minutes,
> and now that my technique is improved I am getting dangerously obsessed
> with it.

Dustin, taking off from what Alex wrote, what brewing temperature are you
using with those teas? With the BLC at least, I'd say you overdid it in
your gaiwan. Really good BLC is pretty damned delicate and unless the
water was quite cool, a minute is quite long. 140F is possible. But, perhaps
you know all this already. Luck.

Michael
>

[Alex]
> Dominic I agree that yixing is more forgiving, but I think gaiwans are
> fine if you watch the clock and make sure that the water is the right
> temp. It's also really useful to have a totally neutral way to
> evaluate what you are drinking, and they give you the flexibility to
> try anything. Anything, including Liu An basket tea - what the hell is
> that stuff? Does anyone know how you make it taste good?

[Michael]
I sure do, and glad you asked: Wait around 50 years.
It'll be soft and sweet and delicate. New ones are an
acquired taste, eh? (I've been drinking some of these
older versions and can attest.)

Anyway, hope this helps.

Michael

To the original poster:

Exploration and a sense of timing, a sense of appropriate strength,
are fascinating aspects of brewing tea in a mindful manner. The more
you use your gaiwan, the more relaxed you'll become with using it, and
the more naturally the answers to your questions will be answered by
your own experience. It's a comforting thought, no? "Your ears thirst
for the sound of your heart's knowledge."


To Dominic:

I enjoy the flexibility of gaiwan brewing, but surely nothing can
compare to the use of a yixing zisha hu paired specifically with the
type of tea you have selected. If gaiwans are the badge of "street
cred", then I am happy to be extremely uncool in this regard.


Toodlepip,

Hobbes

oleg /12/06


> it was a joke, right ?
>
> Alex wrote:
> Anything, including Liu An basket tea - what the hell is
>> that stuff? Does anyone know how you make it taste good?
>>


I don't think Alex is joking, Oleg. *I* like the beet-dirt
taste of that Liu An basket, but it's not for everyone.
Yup, Lou Anne separates the men from the boys,
that's for sure.
Michael

Michael Plant wrote:
> 7/12/06
>
>
> >
> > xDustinx wrote:
> >> I just received a celadon gaiwan from The Imperial Tea Court in San
> >> Francisco and I'm pretty excited about it. So far I've brewed some Pi
> >> Lo Chun and Tung Ting Jade Oolong in it. Both times I put enough tea
> >> leaves in to uniformly cover the bottom in a relatively thin layer.
> >> Probably about two teaspoons worth. The first infusion was a minute
> >> long with both teas. I noticed that the first infusion tasted slightly
> >> bitter, which is not something I'm used to with the other way I brew
> >> tea (infuser basket in a mug for whatever time the instructions say).
> >> The next couple infusions after the first however, are not bitter, but
> >> not quite as flavorful as my normal brewing method. Should I adjust
> >> the amount of tea leaves, the infusion time, or is this normal? I'm
> >> completely new to gaiwans so any general advice would be helpful as
> >> well.
> >
> > It takes some fine-tuning, and the answer is that you should adjust
> > both the amount of leaves and the infusion time for every different tea
> > you make. I got a little digital scale from Amazon and have been
> > adhering to a strict one-gram-per-ounce-of-water rule, and that's
> > really helped me focus on the timing. One other resource that has been
> > very useful has been blogs such as Chadao and Teamasters that discuss
> > technique and timing. Chadao members are particularly good about
> > posting the steep times. I never liked pu'er, but that was because I
> > was steeping like eight grams of it in a small yixing for two minutes,
> > and now that my technique is improved I am getting dangerously obsessed
> > with it.
>
> Dustin, taking off from what Alex wrote, what brewing temperature are you
> using with those teas? With the BLC at least, I'd say you overdid it in
> your gaiwan. Really good BLC is pretty damned delicate and unless the
> water was quite cool, a minute is quite long. 140F is possible. But, perhaps
> you know all this already. Luck.
>
> Michael
> >

I brewed it around 160F because that's what the instructions that came
with the tea suggested. I'll try bringing the temperature down and see
how that works. Thanks.

7/13/06


>
> Michael Plant wrote:
>> 7/12/06
>>
>>
>>>
>>> xDustinx wrote:
>>>> I just received a celadon gaiwan from The Imperial Tea Court in San
>>>> Francisco and I'm pretty excited about it. So far I've brewed some Pi
>>>> Lo Chun and Tung Ting Jade Oolong in it. Both times I put enough tea
>>>> leaves in to uniformly cover the bottom in a relatively thin layer.
>>>> Probably about two teaspoons worth. The first infusion was a minute
>>>> long with both teas. I noticed that the first infusion tasted slightly
>>>> bitter, which is not something I'm used to with the other way I brew
>>>> tea (infuser basket in a mug for whatever time the instructions say).
>>>> The next couple infusions after the first however, are not bitter, but
>>>> not quite as flavorful as my normal brewing method. Should I adjust
>>>> the amount of tea leaves, the infusion time, or is this normal? I'm
>>>> completely new to gaiwans so any general advice would be helpful as
>>>> well.
>>>
>>> It takes some fine-tuning, and the answer is that you should adjust
>>> both the amount of leaves and the infusion time for every different tea
>>> you make. I got a little digital scale from Amazon and have been
>>> adhering to a strict one-gram-per-ounce-of-water rule, and that's
>>> really helped me focus on the timing. One other resource that has been
>>> very useful has been blogs such as Chadao and Teamasters that discuss
>>> technique and timing. Chadao members are particularly good about
>>> posting the steep times. I never liked pu'er, but that was because I
>>> was steeping like eight grams of it in a small yixing for two minutes,
>>> and now that my technique is improved I am getting dangerously obsessed
>>> with it.
>>
>> Dustin, taking off from what Alex wrote, what brewing temperature are you
>> using with those teas? With the BLC at least, I'd say you overdid it in
>> your gaiwan. Really good BLC is pretty damned delicate and unless the
>> water was quite cool, a minute is quite long. 140F is possible. But, perhaps
>> you know all this already. Luck.
>>
>> Michael
>>>
>
> I brewed it around 160F because that's what the instructions that came
> with the tea suggested. I'll try bringing the temperature down and see
> how that works. Thanks.
>
Aha! Here's my fix on it: BLC of the first order is so delicate as
to want a sencha treatment, but not everyone agrees. I like the idea
of drinking some teas -- silver needles, sencha, BLC -- in the cool
ranges, expecting a delicate and quieting experience. This is not
for everyone, and some people say a quick douse in really hot
water is what these leaves want.

Michael

I use a small gaiwan (10cl) to brew chinese green teas, and sometimes
oolong teas.
When I try a green tea for the first time, I use about 2 grams of leafs
(I don't weigh it) and water at 80°c (= 176° fahrenheit). The first
infusion lasts only 10 seconds ! The following infusions are longer and
longer (eg 10s 15s 25s 45s 1'15 2' 3'30 5' ...)
Then, I try to adjust the brewing time according to my taste, playing
only with the brewing time. I think changing only one parameter at the
same time is a good idea.
This is my way of doing, which corresponds to my personal taste. Yours
will certainly be different, but this is just a proposition of starting
point.

Brewing green teas in a gaiwan makes heavenly infusions, to my taste.
Though, I never tried to brew green tea in a Yixing teapot. I am
interested in the experiences of the followers of this method : do you
need a specific kind of Yixing teapot (shape, thickness,...) ? How many
grams of leafs do you use ? What is the temperature of your water ? How
long last the infusions ? ...

Valéry

Valery wrote:
> Brewing green teas in a gaiwan makes heavenly infusions, to my taste.
> Though, I never tried to brew green tea in a Yixing teapot. I am
> interested in the experiences of the followers of this method : do you
> need a specific kind of Yixing teapot (shape, thickness,...) ? How many
> grams of leafs do you use ? What is the temperature of your water ? How
> long last the infusions ? ...
>
> Valéry

Usually brewing greens in Yixing is kind of taboo, since Yixing is much
better suited for teas that require hotter temps... but I like to break
rules. I have a pot I use for jasmine green in particular that I could
never imagine parting with. I have been using it for over 7 years or so
and it has taken on it's own fragrance and I can produce the smoothest
brew from it consistently. To the point that if I brew the same
jasmine green any other way it doesn't even compare.

I use a medium sized pot for green, it is a very basic round shape and
medium thickness. I use lower temps, but I keep it at the temperature
throughout by using the Yixing which is where I feel the benefit comes
in. As I stated before I have been at this tea game for a long time so
exact temps or grams is not in my vocabulary, I could brew it in my
sleep. If I had to guess, I'd say it is about 3-4 pearls per
smaller-medium sized cup. I get about 3 infusions and I keep the water
temp the same throughout just lengthen the time.

For Pi Lo Chun, Sencha, etc. I would not use Yixing personally. I will
do these either in a gaiwan or directly in-mug in an infuser basket or
I will brew a larger pot in a medium sized ceramic teapot like a
Chatsford. For some reason I equate these teas to white, and I only
brew them in white vessels. I can see the delicate coloring better, and
I can appreciate it more from beginning to end in white
porcelain/glazed ceramic.

- Dominic

xDustinx wrote:
> I just received a celadon gaiwan from The Imperial Tea Court in San
> Francisco and I'm pretty excited about it. So far I've brewed some Pi
> Lo Chun and Tung Ting Jade Oolong in it. Both times I put enough tea
> leaves in to uniformly cover the bottom in a relatively thin layer.
> Probably about two teaspoons worth. The first infusion was a minute
> long with both teas. I noticed that the first infusion tasted slightly
> bitter, which is not something I'm used to with the other way I brew
> tea (infuser basket in a mug for whatever time the instructions say).
> The next couple infusions after the first however, are not bitter, but
> not quite as flavorful as my normal brewing method. Should I adjust
> the amount of tea leaves, the infusion time, or is this normal? I'm
> completely new to gaiwans so any general advice would be helpful as
> well.

Try 30 seconds with that same amount. If it's wulong, flush the leaves
once good with hot water and then steep for about 30 seconds. To
practice, buy yourself some lower grade teas so you don't mind as much
if you mess up a steep.

>Anything, including Liu An basket tea - what the hell is
> that stuff? Does anyone know how you make it taste good?

Liu An is a Hei Cha, or Chinese Black Tea (as opposed to Hong Cha,
Chinese Red Tea, Western black tea)--like green Pu-erh, it'll get
better as it ages. If it's young, it'll probably be a little rough
around the edges--it takes quite a palate to taste the potential in a
young hei cha--I would hesitate to say i'm up to it yet, and I drink
scarcely anything besides hei cha.

As for gaiwans--my notion is to experiment, get a feel for what looks
right, what feels right--scales are a little too scientific for me, and
things like proper timing and whatnot can be saved for a more formal
Gong Fu. Drinking from a Gaiwan is time to kick back, relax, and just
sort of enjoy whatever comes.

Michael Plant wrote:
> oleg /12/06
>
>
> > it was a joke, right ?
> >
> > Alex wrote:
> > Anything, including Liu An basket tea - what the hell is
> >> that stuff? Does anyone know how you make it taste good?
> >>
>
>
> I don't think Alex is joking, Oleg. *I* like the beet-dirt
> taste of that Liu An basket, but it's not for everyone.
> Yup, Lou Anne separates the men from the boys,
> that's for sure.
> Michael

Beet and dirt is about right from my experience - and some ash and
attic dust notes as well. It's funny because I've always been a big
oolong drinker, and recently made the jump to sheng pu'er, having drank
cooked pu'er and been kind of ambivalent. I took to the sheng right
away, but the Liu An is just doing nothing for me. I have some '94
from Hou De. I guess I have to try it again now. Any advice on
brewing parameters or what I should be looking for.

Alex wrote:
> Beet and dirt is about right from my experience - and some ash and
> attic dust notes as well. It's funny because I've always been a big
> oolong drinker, and recently made the jump to sheng pu'er, having drank
> cooked pu'er and been kind of ambivalent. I took to the sheng right
> away, but the Liu An is just doing nothing for me. I have some '94
> from Hou De. I guess I have to try it again now. Any advice on
> brewing parameters or what I should be looking for?
>

i brew Liu An like puerh and adjust temperature and time according to taste.
i have tried two Liu An baskets from Hou De, the 93 that i wasn't
impressed, and the 95 Sun-Yi-Shuen that is great with such a silky
undertones, probably sold out and it was two times more expensive than
the 93 one.