Hi guys.
I recently bought a few items from a tea place mentioned on this
site.(it was not the spammed place or the place that prices were sky
high without cause) ANyway I received a 2nd flush 2006 sample that was
really good. Big sample , the tea I ordered was china special (forest
yunnan, sencha, tky )& an oolong from maka.. the 2006 2nd flush was
very good, so were the others I bought but I was very pleased especialy
since I dont ususally drink darj. I was on a journey guys you all know
how that can be and was happy with the tea. So has anyone else tried
2006 makabairi2nd flush? And what did you think of it.
Jenn

Jenn wrote:
> Hi guys.
> I recently bought a few items from a tea place mentioned on this
> site.(it was not the spammed place or the place that prices were sky
> high without cause) ANyway I received a 2nd flush 2006 sample that was
> really good. Big sample , the tea I ordered was china special (forest
> yunnan, sencha, tky )& an oolong from maka.. the 2006 2nd flush was
> very good, so were the others I bought but I was very pleased especialy
> since I dont ususally drink darj. I was on a journey guys you all know
> how that can be and was happy with the tea. So has anyone else tried
> 2006 makabairi2nd flush? And what did you think of it.
> Jenn

I actually normally only go for the second flush DJ's, I'm not much for
the 1st flushes unless it is a particularly noteworthy year... of which
we haven't seen lately nor looking good going forward. You can never go
wrong with Makaibari. I didn't purchase any 06 2nd flush for myself but
I did have some on two occasions and enjoyed it a lot. I wasn't really
into any of the TKY's I bought this year, so sencha, young hyson and
Pu-erh have been my standby's so far. Looks like you got a nice variety
to enjoy.

- Dominic

"Dominic T." > writes:

> [...]
> I actually normally only go for the second flush DJ's, I'm not much for
> the 1st flushes unless it is a particularly noteworthy year... of which
> we haven't seen lately nor looking good going forward. You can never go
> wrong with Makaibari.

Sorry to say this, but you can go wrong with Makaibari. When I was in
India last year, I saw - and tasted - some low-grade Makaibari tea
packaged under the Apoorva brand without any indication of when it was
harvested. I haven't seen this stuff for sale in the West, though.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

Makaibari, ahh that brings up memories.
Just let´s remember that Makaibari is one of the largest DJ estates,
and as with ALL those other gardens [even the big names] the major part
of their harvested leaves isn´t really worth mentioning qualitywise
and ends up in name- and lifeless blends and -yuk-teabags.

BTW, the latest shipment still hasn´t made it here, so darjeelingwise
I happily indulge in this years wonderful Castleton 2nd Muscatel
(China) and one excellent Lingia 2nd Muscatel, as well as loads of
leftovers from late 2005 and early 2006.

Lewis Perin wrote:
> Sorry to say this, but you can go wrong with Makaibari. When I was in
> India last year, I saw - and tasted - some low-grade Makaibari tea
> packaged under the Apoorva brand without any indication of when it was
> harvested.

Lew, we had that Apoorva thing before. I remember you didn´t like
those broken leaves too much, me still thinks of it as a nice bold
breakfast tea, at least the fresher stuff I had the pleasure to drink
over the years.
One Makaibari I personally dislike is their steamed green, that one you
can get all over Darjeeling, wrapped in aluminized paper sporting
bright green stickers - IMO as boring as it gets.

Karsten [2006 Lingia FF in der Tasse]

writes:

> [...]
> Lewis Perin wrote:
> > Sorry to say this, but you can go wrong with Makaibari. When I was in
> > India last year, I saw - and tasted - some low-grade Makaibari tea
> > packaged under the Apoorva brand without any indication of when it was
> > harvested.
>
> Lew, we had that Apoorva thing before. I remember you didn´t like
> those broken leaves too much, me still thinks of it as a nice bold
> breakfast tea, at least the fresher stuff I had the pleasure to drink
> over the years.

Hey, Karsten, it's great to hear your voice again!

A few weeks ago I sat in Assam bar by the Frauenkirche in München
drinking Castleton 2006 FF. (If I remember correctly, that isn't
exactly your part of the country, but...)

About the Apoorva: Sure goodness is a judgment for the mouth to make,
but anyone who drinks the stuff expecting something like a Makaibari
year-stamped FF or 2F is going to be ... surprised?

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

Lewis Perin wrote:
> About the Apoorva: Sure goodness is a judgment for the mouth to make,
> but anyone who drinks the stuff expecting something like a Makaibari
> year-stamped FF or 2F is going to be ... surprised?
>
> /Lew
> ---
> Lew Perin /
> http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

But the Apoorva is not labeled "Makaibari" which was my point, that is
why it is labled "Apoorva." As with anything, sure there can be
different grades and quality but on the whole I still can't see taking
Lipton or Tetley over even the fanings of Makaibari.

- Dominic

"Dominic T." > writes:

> Lewis Perin wrote:
> > About the Apoorva: Sure goodness is a judgment for the mouth to make,
> > but anyone who drinks the stuff expecting something like a Makaibari
> > year-stamped FF or 2F is going to be ... surprised?
>
> But the Apoorva is not labeled "Makaibari" which was my point, that is
> why it is labled "Apoorva."

But it's labeled *both* Apoorva and Makaibari. Had it not been
labeled Makaibari, I wouldn't have given it a second thought when I
first tasted it and disliked it.

> As with anything, sure there can be different grades and quality but
> on the whole I still can't see taking Lipton or Tetley over even the
> fanings of Makaibari.

I don't believe I compared Apoorva to U.S. supermarket teas. A
cup-to-cup test against, say, the Lipton label teas you see in India
and in U.S. shops catering to South Asians might be interesting. As
for "different grades and quality", that was my original point, I
think. I'm surprised that it aroused controversy.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

Lewis Perin wrote:
> I don't believe I compared Apoorva to U.S. supermarket teas. A
> cup-to-cup test against, say, the Lipton label teas you see in India
> and in U.S. shops catering to South Asians might be interesting. As
> for "different grades and quality", that was my original point, I
> think. I'm surprised that it aroused controversy.

No, no controversy... it was just that in reference to the OP I was
mainly trying to say that you really can't go wrong with Makaibari...
sure it is a generalization and I'm sure there is poorer Makaibari but
it is still "good" and better than the most base teas. For many of us,
yes, a Maki FF, 2ndF, Castleton, Margaret's Hope, etc. is the only tea
we would seriously consider in this area but for someone just starting
out a basic easy to understand rule of thumb would be Makaibari ==
good. Which is basically what she was asking.

I just know that we can get into more detail than needed at times and
this can be daunting for a newcomer like the OP, I was just trying to
keep it simple No worries.

- Dominic

"Dominic T." > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Lewis Perin wrote:
>> About the Apoorva: Sure goodness is a judgment for the mouth to make,
>> but anyone who drinks the stuff expecting something like a Makaibari
>> year-stamped FF or 2F is going to be ... surprised?
>>
>> /Lew
>> ---
>> Lew Perin /
>> http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html
>
> But the Apoorva is not labeled "Makaibari" which was my point, that is
> why it is labled "Apoorva." As with anything, sure there can be
> different grades and quality but on the whole I still can't see taking
> Lipton or Tetley over even the fanings of Makaibari.

I think Lipton Green Label is pretty good Darjeeling blend (consistent,
cheap compared to mail-order).

--
Aloke
----
to reply by e-mail remove 123 and change invalid to com

Aloke Prasad wrote:
> > But the Apoorva is not labeled "Makaibari" which was my point, that is
> > why it is labled "Apoorva." As with anything, sure there can be
> > different grades and quality but on the whole I still can't see taking
> > Lipton or Tetley over even the fanings of Makaibari.
>
> I think Lipton Green Label is pretty good Darjeeling blend (consistent,
> cheap compared to mail-order).
>
> --
> Aloke
> ----
> to reply by e-mail remove 123 and change invalid to com

Ahh, look what I've gone and done... I've riled up the natives. Sure I
love Lipton green label too, in fact I keep a box of loose at home and
work. It is a great cheap DJ. But the OP was speaking about buying tea
online from vendors and I believe just wanted some basic advice if
Makaibari was a good bet.

I was purposefully keeping my reply simplistic, and yes, I left out
many teas and made some generalizations... but I swear it was for the
greater good. See what happens when you try to give a simple answer

- Dominic

wrote:
> Dominic, walking all those stairs down to Darjeeling bazaar you´d be
> amazed as to how bad Darjeelings - and Assams - can taste, if there´s
> any taste left at all. I´m talking about teas that sell for 50-100 IRp
> a kilogram (fresh leave sells between ~15-30 IRp/kg). That doesn´t
> leave much space for plucking and processing, not to mention your
> dealers percentage. Amazingly some of that stuff has a wonderful
> appearance, something I mentioned some time ago. And then all those
> millions of kg of leaves that end up in campaign teas.
> Give me 100g of that Apoorva I used to know and drink over 1000g of
> those "Darjeeling" campaign teas they sell over here any day of the
> week.
>
> Karsten [time to hit the sack]

Hey Karsten,

By all means you are the expert... but as I said a couple times I was
just giving a simple answer to a pretty simple question so as not to
confuse the issue to someone new to DJ's and Makaibari. If she were on
the streets in the markets, I'm sure she would run up against this, but
from a computer chair ordering online anytime you see the name
"Makaibari" it is a pretty safe bet over say "Punjab's super-duper
really good monkey picked exclusive blend DJ" that costs $4.00 a lb.

Honestly, I was just trying to help a newbie out and being purposefully
simplistic in my answer... my bad But, since you popped into this
thread I'm sure a few suggestions of good DJ's beyond my few names I've
tossed out wouldn't hurt coming straight from the horses mouth I
know you like the muscatels, and I always enjoy buying whatever you say
is good at the moment, I'm sure the OP would too.

- Dominic

snip snip snippity snip snip snip

> One Makaibari I personally dislike is their steamed green, that one you
> can get all over Darjeeling, wrapped in aluminized paper sporting
> bright green stickers - IMO as boring as it gets.

Hey Karsen,

I'ts interesting to me that a "steamed
green" is popular enough to sell" all over
Darjeeling." Boy, have things changed in
the world during the 40 years I was a sleep.
So real green tea has taking off there? (I
don't mean to imply that it is good green
tea.)

Still drinking the 1980's Ti Lo Han, which
holds up beautifully. Lovely tea, it is.

Michael

"Michael Plant" > wrote in message
...
> snip snip snippity snip snip snip
>
>> One Makaibari I personally dislike is their steamed green, that one you
>> can get all over Darjeeling, wrapped in aluminized paper sporting
>> bright green stickers - IMO as boring as it gets.
>
> Hey Karsen,
>
> I'ts interesting to me that a "steamed
> green" is popular enough to sell" all over
> Darjeeling." Boy, have things changed in
> the world during the 40 years I was a sleep.
> So real green tea has taking off there? (I
> don't mean to imply that it is good green
> tea.)
>
> Still drinking the 1980's Ti Lo Han, which
> holds up beautifully. Lovely tea, it is.

I, too, can't imagine anyone in India drinking green tea.
Except maybe expatriates who are re-locating back from the West..

I moved the other way back (From Calcutta to Ohio) and I am sticking to
black DJ's.
--
Aloke
----
to reply by e-mail remove 123 and change invalid to com

That's Karsten.
I'm sorry!
Shouldn't butcher people's names.
Michael

> Hey Karsten,
> Honestly, I was just trying to help a newbie out and being purposefully
> simplistic in my answer... my bad

Hey Dominic,
again that´s a tough one. I´ve sampled SH..loads of really BAD Maks,
Castletons, Rohinis, you name them, over the years. The secret that
makes Castleton Castleton (and the other "top" players) mainly lies in
excellent management and quality control over the decades, not in those
leaves alone. Even at Castleton´s sometime the final firing or other
steps during manufacturing go wrong (don´t get p...ed at me P. :-),
but again the next batch WILL be better. Please understand that only
about 10-15% of their crop qualifies as high-quality tea, with only
around 5% of their leaves being top notch, the stuff that brings in
real money. These days in DJ you see managers come and go and quality
go up and down, not to speak of the weather (see 2006 FF). Then there
are seasonal aspects. Let´s stick with Castleton. They´re not exactly
known for their First Flush ...
Hence when it comes to recommending teas by their names it gets really
difficult. I totally agree with Lew, Michael, and the others on that
"Know thy vendor" mantra.
So to answer your question somewhat more forward, yes Makaibari is up
there, Rajiv Banerjee is one hell of a tea manager, two-three years ago
they dethroned Castleton´s SF Muscatel in Kolkata with some white tips
AND they´re 100% organic. Me still thinks that with DJs most of the
time you get what you pay for (main xception in bad FF seasons) so if
you want a "good" Mak or any other top-notch DJ, you won´t get it for
cheap.

> But, since you popped into this
> thread I'm sure a few suggestions of good DJ's beyond my few names I've
> tossed out wouldn't hurt coming straight from the horses mouth I
> know you like the muscatels, and I always enjoy buying whatever you say
> is good at the moment, I'm sure the OP would too.

I´m still waiting for some other samples from DJ, they´re long
overdue. I´ll report back when they arrive. AFAIR I mentioned the
Lingia SF muscatel yesterday.

PS: I´m still stuck in Germania, yikes, my grandmother is recovering
from a minor stroke and I just can´t leave her alone.

Karsten [next in cup: 2006 DJ FF oolong gongafua]

> Hey Karsen,
> I'ts interesting to me that a "steamed green" is popular enough to sell" all over
> Darjeeling." Boy, have things changed > in the world during the 40 years I was a
> sleep. So real green tea has taking off there? (I don't mean to imply that it
> is good green tea.)

Hey Michael,
IMO that´s directed towards tourists, indians and westerners, not the
locals. They´re married with chai.

Ti Lo Han, aahh. From the 80s ??? Mind describing it a bit. Did you
reroast the leaves ?
How did you store them ?

Karsten

On the subject of Makaibari, I e-mailed them (off their web site) for the
address of their distributer in Calcutta. I got a prompt reply from Rajah
Banerjee!!

I'll be in Calcutta in Aug-Sept and will try to pick up their expensive
products (hopefully cheaper direct from them, paid in Rupees).
--
Aloke
----
to reply by e-mail remove 123 and change invalid to com

[Karsten]
> Ti Lo Han, aahh. From the 80s ??? Mind describing it a bit. Did you
> reroast the leaves ? How did you store them ?

[Michael]
Well, there is a sweetness and a roastiness and a Yan/Cliff
taste of stone there. The significant thing is that the tea
begins in one way and ends in another. The sweetness,
for example, holds itself back, and then comes out of the
throat back to the mouth. It's delightful, but requires
attention. I used about 2.75 grams in a gaiwan that barely
holds 25 grams of water once the leaves unfurl. Many
would have used more leaf, and indeed I would too, but
not much more.

I store the leaves as carefully and airtight as I can
manage, but it isn't that critical since these teas
definitely benefit from a bit of air. In fact, all WuYi
teas seem to like a bit of age, even if it's just a few
months after arrival. They do suffer from jet lag.

Try as I might, WuYi teas, while I like them, will
never make my top five list. Ti Lo Han is something
of an exception. I have tasted wonderful Shui Xians
(sp?), but usually brewed by others; I just don't seem
to get it. Usually, they pall. Too bad. Probably too
many Chinese restaurants and too much hype killed
them for me.

Enough nattering after your simple and straight
forward question.

Best,
Michael

Michael

In article . com>,
Jenn > wrote:
>Hi guys.
>I recently bought a few items from a tea place mentioned on this
>site.(it was not the spammed place or the place that prices were sky
>high without cause) ANyway I received a 2nd flush 2006 sample that was
>really good. Big sample , the tea I ordered was china special (forest
>yunnan, sencha, tky )& an oolong from maka.. the 2006 2nd flush was
>very good, so were the others I bought but I was very pleased especialy
>since I dont ususally drink darj. I was on a journey guys you all know
>how that can be and was happy with the tea. So has anyone else tried
>2006 makabairi2nd flush? And what did you think of it.

A friend sent me some, and it wasn't bad. I'm not a fan of the newer
style Darjeelings but I thought it had a nice scent to it, while being
more robust than typical of Darjeeling these days.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Thanks for your input Michael.

> [Michael]
> In fact, all WuYi > teas seem to like a bit of age, even if it's just a few
> months after arrival.

Strange isn´t it. A few weeks ago I discovered a long forgotten stash
of mainland Oolongs in my cellar. They´ve been kept airtight in
aluminum-foil bags but didn´t survive it. 3 years and they´re dead.
One TGY from the WuYi area [chinese marketing gag ?] I kept in a box
upstairs for around 2 years tastes as good as "fresh".
I´d really like to know if there are any special processing techniques
behind this ?!?!
Time to get back to China, sniff ...

Karsten [just gongfuing some of that TGY, shhllrp ...]

Aloke Prasad > wrote:
>
>I think Lipton Green Label is pretty good Darjeeling blend (consistent,
>cheap compared to mail-order).

Note two things:
1. In the US, there is a "Lipton Darjeeling" for sale in bags, which is not
at all even vaguely related to the Green Label tea sold abroad.

2. Lipton Green Label isn't 100% Darjeeling, I suspect, and contains a lot
of the "Darjeeling-style" teas. Which is fine, since you aren't paying
some outrageous price for the name.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

I know what you're saying but the box says "The rare flavour of 100%
pure Darjeeling tea". They also imply that on their Connoisseur green
label which isn't cheap. The parent company Brooke Bond says that also
on their boxes. AFAIK Lipton owns their own DJ plantations. I don't
trust the boxes that just say Darjeeling tea. The fact there is more
DJ consumed than produced.

Jim

Scott Dorsey wrote:
....bit bucket...
> 2. Lipton Green Label isn't 100% Darjeeling, I suspect, and contains a lot
> of the "Darjeeling-style" teas. Which is fine, since you aren't paying
> some outrageous price for the name.
> --scott
>
>
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Michael where did you get this stuff? It sounds good. I am not much
of a wuyi drinker either but I love that gravel taste.

Karsten I find that tea keeps for a really long time in those
vacuum-sealed bags. Two weeks ago I was digging around in my tea
closet and found one that claimed to contain Si Ji Chun (Taiwanese
oolong). The bag was in complex characters too - clearly Taiwanese.
Now the last time I went to Taiwan was two summers ago, but that was
for work and I didn't do any tea shopping, and furthermore I have no
memory of owning this stuff, so I must have bought it the last time I
*lived* in Taiwan, which was in the summer of 2000! I opened it and
it's amazing - honestly, it's better than most of the stuff I have now,
that I spend zillions of dollars on getting from internet vendors.
Incredible focused flavors. And, at the time I didn't know jack about
tea, I just bought what I liked. So I'm also wondering what's going on
with storage and why this particular tea really seemed to thrive in the
six years it spent in a dark, airless environment.

wrote:
> Thanks for your input Michael.
>
> > [Michael]
> > In fact, all WuYi > teas seem to like a bit of age, even if it's just a few
> > months after arrival.
>
> Strange isn´t it. A few weeks ago I discovered a long forgotten stash
> of mainland Oolongs in my cellar. They´ve been kept airtight in
> aluminum-foil bags but didn´t survive it. 3 years and they´re dead.
> One TGY from the WuYi area [chinese marketing gag ?] I kept in a box
> upstairs for around 2 years tastes as good as "fresh".
> I´d really like to know if there are any special processing techniques
> behind this ?!?!
> Time to get back to China, sniff ...
>
> Karsten [just gongfuing some of that TGY, shhllrp ...]

Alex wrote:
> Michael where did you get this stuff? It sounds good. I am not much
> of a wuyi drinker either but I love that gravel taste.
>
> Karsten I find that tea keeps for a really long time in those
> vacuum-sealed bags. Two weeks ago I was digging around in my tea
> closet and found one that claimed to contain Si Ji Chun (Taiwanese
> oolong). The bag was in complex characters too - clearly Taiwanese.
> Now the last time I went to Taiwan was two summers ago, but that was
> for work and I didn't do any tea shopping, and furthermore I have no
> memory of owning this stuff, so I must have bought it the last time I
> *lived* in Taiwan, which was in the summer of 2000! I opened it and
> it's amazing - honestly, it's better than most of the stuff I have now,
> that I spend zillions of dollars on getting from internet vendors.
> Incredible focused flavors. And, at the time I didn't know jack about
> tea, I just bought what I liked. So I'm also wondering what's going on
> with storage and why this particular tea really seemed to thrive in the
> six years it spent in a dark, airless environment.

Since we are a good bit OT already, I always wonder this myself. I have
found a cheap black/white tea blend twice when I moved and each time I
pulled it out and brewed a cup and it is just as intense and sweet and
great as the day I received it as a gift more than 5 years ago! It was
stored in a foil pouch that I always ket tightly rolled and expelled of
air and sealed with ordinary scotch tape. No nitrogen, no seal-a-meal,
nuttin. But then I have had other teas that are just plain stale after
a year of being forgotten and in the back of a cupboard. It's a mystery
to me, but at least I'm not alone... I almost feel "dirty" when I pull
one of these opened containers from the depths of hell and prepare to
brew it. Sometimes for good reason, others I'm pleasantly surprised.

- Dominic

Alex wrote:
> Michael where did you get this stuff? It sounds good. I am not much
> of a wuyi drinker either but I love that gravel taste.
>
> Karsten I find that tea keeps for a really long time in those
> vacuum-sealed bags. Two weeks ago I was digging around in my tea
> closet and found one that claimed to contain Si Ji Chun (Taiwanese
> oolong). The bag was in complex characters too - clearly Taiwanese.
> Now the last time I went to Taiwan was two summers ago, but that was
> for work and I didn't do any tea shopping, and furthermore I have no
> memory of owning this stuff, so I must have bought it the last time I
> *lived* in Taiwan, which was in the summer of 2000! I opened it and
> it's amazing - honestly, it's better than most of the stuff I have now,
> that I spend zillions of dollars on getting from internet vendors.
> Incredible focused flavors. And, at the time I didn't know jack about
> tea, I just bought what I liked. So I'm also wondering what's going on
> with storage and why this particular tea really seemed to thrive in the
> six years it spent in a dark, airless environment.

I have a similar experience with two bags of tea. One was an
air-tight, sealed bag of A Li Shan that I got here on the mainland and
the other was a bag of A Li Shan that one of my Taiwanese students
brought back from Taiwan for me. When I was moving, I came across both
of the bags sorta under some stuff in the bottom of my tea closet. The
Taiwanese bag survived well and when brewed the tea wasn't too bad.
The Chinese bag had air in it.

You feel that the bags from Taiwan are of better quality than the
sealed bags from China? They do seem thicker, that's for sure.

Space 8/9/06


> I know what you're saying but the box says "The rare flavour of 100%
> pure Darjeeling tea".

Jim we live in a rotten capitalist world. Let us therefore examine the
syntax of that sentence you quoted above. See what I mean?

Michael

Not really. In these times any sentence can be parsed to mean
anything. You mean something like the 1% of Darjeeling is rare and by
definition making it 100%. I'm sure if BrookeBond and Lipton were
cutting their teas at packing plants in India the Darjeeling
Certification board would be raising a stink with statements like this.
I think in general the problem is with Private labels and
distribution.

Jim

Michael Plant wrote:
> Space 8/9/06
>
>
> > I know what you're saying but the box says "The rare flavour of 100%
> > pure Darjeeling tea".
>
> Jim we live in a rotten capitalist world. Let us therefore examine the
> syntax of that sentence you quoted above. See what I mean?
>
> Michael

I have gotten good vacuum sealed bags in China, but, as we both know,
like everything else, it's better in Taiwan. As a foreigner anyway you
are far, far less likely to get ripped off there than in China. The
bag seemed unusually thick and heavy compared to a Chinese bag.

Are you getting any good Anxi TGY these days, by the way? Lightly
roasted. I'm still on a mission for that stuff.

Mydnight wrote:
> Alex wrote:
> > Michael where did you get this stuff? It sounds good. I am not much
> > of a wuyi drinker either but I love that gravel taste.
> >
> > Karsten I find that tea keeps for a really long time in those
> > vacuum-sealed bags. Two weeks ago I was digging around in my tea
> > closet and found one that claimed to contain Si Ji Chun (Taiwanese
> > oolong). The bag was in complex characters too - clearly Taiwanese.
> > Now the last time I went to Taiwan was two summers ago, but that was
> > for work and I didn't do any tea shopping, and furthermore I have no
> > memory of owning this stuff, so I must have bought it the last time I
> > *lived* in Taiwan, which was in the summer of 2000! I opened it and
> > it's amazing - honestly, it's better than most of the stuff I have now,
> > that I spend zillions of dollars on getting from internet vendors.
> > Incredible focused flavors. And, at the time I didn't know jack about
> > tea, I just bought what I liked. So I'm also wondering what's going on
> > with storage and why this particular tea really seemed to thrive in the
> > six years it spent in a dark, airless environment.
>
> I have a similar experience with two bags of tea. One was an
> air-tight, sealed bag of A Li Shan that I got here on the mainland and
> the other was a bag of A Li Shan that one of my Taiwanese students
> brought back from Taiwan for me. When I was moving, I came across both
> of the bags sorta under some stuff in the bottom of my tea closet. The
> Taiwanese bag survived well and when brewed the tea wasn't too bad.
> The Chinese bag had air in it.
>
> You feel that the bags from Taiwan are of better quality than the
> sealed bags from China? They do seem thicker, that's for sure.

Alex wrote:
> I have gotten good vacuum sealed bags in China, but, as we both know,
> like everything else, it's better in Taiwan. As a foreigner anyway you
> are far, far less likely to get ripped off there than in China. The
> bag seemed unusually thick and heavy compared to a Chinese bag.
>
> Are you getting any good Anxi TGY these days, by the way? Lightly
> roasted. I'm still on a mission for that stuff.

Many people tell me that living in Taiwan is leaps and bounds better
than living in China, that's for sure. As for Good TGY this year, you
are going to have to wait until the Autumn pick and hope for the best.
Both spring picks this year yielded very little good tea. The highest
grade is going around 800RMB which is 300-400 shy from the best grade
last year...what basically means that this year's highest grade dropped
a whole class.

Anyway, autumn is right around the corner.

It varies. China is a lot more exciting but Taiwan has a lot of
advantages, and not getting ripped off at every turn is chief among
them. China is certainly a way better place for learning Chinese
(pinyin, simplified characters, and largely standardized
pronounciation), if you can get out of the trap of everyone you know
trying to get free English lessons out of you. It sounds like you're
not having problems with that though. One very cool thing about Taiwan
is that the main form of transportation is motorcycles, but on the
other hand I hear they are now letting white people ride those in China
too.

This is for those less fortunate of us that don't live within striking
range of a wholesale Chinese tea market: if you hear about good TGY
online, please, please let me know. I am still looking.

Mydnight wrote:
> Alex wrote:
> > I have gotten good vacuum sealed bags in China, but, as we both know,
> > like everything else, it's better in Taiwan. As a foreigner anyway you
> > are far, far less likely to get ripped off there than in China. The
> > bag seemed unusually thick and heavy compared to a Chinese bag.
> >
> > Are you getting any good Anxi TGY these days, by the way? Lightly
> > roasted. I'm still on a mission for that stuff.
>
> Many people tell me that living in Taiwan is leaps and bounds better
> than living in China, that's for sure. As for Good TGY this year, you
> are going to have to wait until the Autumn pick and hope for the best.
> Both spring picks this year yielded very little good tea. The highest
> grade is going around 800RMB which is 300-400 shy from the best grade
> last year...what basically means that this year's highest grade dropped
> a whole class.
>
> Anyway, autumn is right around the corner.

Alex wrote:
> It varies. China is a lot more exciting but Taiwan has a lot of
> advantages, and not getting ripped off at every turn is chief among
> them. China is certainly a way better place for learning Chinese
> (pinyin, simplified characters, and largely standardized
> pronounciation), if you can get out of the trap of everyone you know
> trying to get free English lessons out of you. It sounds like you're
> not having problems with that though. One very cool thing about Taiwan
> is that the main form of transportation is motorcycles, but on the
> other hand I hear they are now letting white people ride those in China
> too.

Sure, if they want English lessons, they can pay the standard rate of
350RMB an hour and I'll try to fit them into my schedule. But, then
again, I get free Chinese lessons from everyone I know...

Yeah, us honkies can buy and own cars here now too. Motorbikes are
such a hazard on the roads, that most cities limit the amount of
motorbikes that can be purchased or sold. Here in Dongguan, the numero
uno cause of death on the road is motorbike collision.

> This is for those less fortunate of us that don't live within striking
> range of a wholesale Chinese tea market: if you hear about good TGY
> online, please, please let me know. I am still looking.

Well, even for us within striking range, most people didn't buy TGY
this year. Everyone around here is on a pu'er binge and the lack of
quality TGY only reinforced it. Do yourself a favor and wait until
autumn.

Mydnight wrote:
> Alex wrote:
> > It varies. China is a lot more exciting but Taiwan has a lot of
> > advantages, and not getting ripped off at every turn is chief among
> > them. China is certainly a way better place for learning Chinese
> > (pinyin, simplified characters, and largely standardized
> > pronounciation), if you can get out of the trap of everyone you know
> > trying to get free English lessons out of you. It sounds like you're
> > not having problems with that though. One very cool thing about Taiwan
> > is that the main form of transportation is motorcycles, but on the
> > other hand I hear they are now letting white people ride those in China
> > too.
>
> Sure, if they want English lessons, they can pay the standard rate of
> 350RMB an hour and I'll try to fit them into my schedule. But, then
> again, I get free Chinese lessons from everyone I know...
>
> Yeah, us honkies can buy and own cars here now too. Motorbikes are
> such a hazard on the roads, that most cities limit the amount of
> motorbikes that can be purchased or sold. Here in Dongguan, the numero
> uno cause of death on the road is motorbike collision.
>
> > This is for those less fortunate of us that don't live within striking
> > range of a wholesale Chinese tea market: if you hear about good TGY
> > online, please, please let me know. I am still looking.
>
> Well, even for us within striking range, most people didn't buy TGY
> this year. Everyone around here is on a pu'er binge and the lack of
> quality TGY only reinforced it. Do yourself a favor and wait until
> autumn.

Thanks for the TGY update. English lessons, that is the only
attitude to have. As for bikes, when I lived in Taiwan, they were also
the numero uno cause of my broken bones. They sure are fun though.

Just saw this in the Times and thought, "Just like China!"
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/09/wo...0&ei= 5087%0A
Some people are just scum, and some countries seem to have more of them
than others.

> Thanks for the TGY update. English lessons, that is the only
> attitude to have. As for bikes, when I lived in Taiwan, they were also
> the numero uno cause of my broken bones. They sure are fun though.
>
> Just saw this in the Times and thought, "Just like China!"
> http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/09/wo...0&ei= 5087%0A
> Some people are just scum, and some countries seem to have more of them
> than others.

Stuff like that doesn't happen here AS MUCH but it does happen. Like
when I was in Beijing a few weeks ago, someone tried to charge me 10 or
15 yuan for a bottle of water that should normally go for 1.5 because
I'm a foreigner. What he didn't realize is that I am a foreigner
that's lived in China for a while and can also cuss him out in his own
language for being such an dishonest merchant.

As for cutting the quality of some dishes, I haven't really seen that
as much but the food in most restaurants around here isn't that good to
begin with; so, who knows. I think it's a general trend to try to use
as low quality food stuffs in restaurants as possible in the Guangdong
province.

Alex wrote:
> Karsten I find that tea keeps for a really long time in those
> vacuum-sealed bags.

For sure. I still have some mainland Oolongs around I too bought some
6-7 years ago and they´re in amazing shape. Back to those dead
samples, one possible explanation would be some excessive moisture [>~
4-5%] those teas contained before I put them into my oh-so airtight
zircon-incrusted bags, since those bags had been stored under almost
ideal conditions.
What else is that tea afficionado supposed to carry on his travels ?

Karsten [gongfuing some unknown yellowish Fujian Oolong]

I tried to get some official information on Lipton Green Label from Lipton
(part of UniLever) but could not find any mention of it at any official
UniLever, Lipton, or Tata Tea site.

Anyone know of the "official site" about Green Label tea?
--
Aloke
----
to reply by e-mail remove 123 and change invalid to com

"Space Cowboy" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Not really. In these times any sentence can be parsed to mean
> anything. You mean something like the 1% of Darjeeling is rare and by
> definition making it 100%. I'm sure if BrookeBond and Lipton were
> cutting their teas at packing plants in India the Darjeeling
> Certification board would be raising a stink with statements like this.
> I think in general the problem is with Private labels and
> distribution.

snip

> Many people tell me that living in Taiwan is leaps and bounds better
> than living in China, that's for sure. As for Good TGY this year, you
> are going to have to wait until the Autumn pick and hope for the best.
> Both spring picks this year yielded very little good tea. The highest
> grade is going around 800RMB which is 300-400 shy from the best grade
> last year...what basically means that this year's highest grade dropped
> a whole class.
>
> Anyway, autumn is right around the corner.

What's really interesting about what you report is that they dropped the
price because the leaf was less good. In the happy world of Pu'erh,
I'm given to understand, the quality can fall through the floor, but the
proce will forever rise. No price drops reflecting poor quality leaf to be
seen. Sounds as though with TGY there's some integrity somewhere.

Michael

Did you find that the quality actually improved? I think my Si Ji Chun
must have. I certainly don't remember it being this outstanding back
then.

wrote:
> Alex wrote:
> > Karsten I find that tea keeps for a really long time in those
> > vacuum-sealed bags.
>
> For sure. I still have some mainland Oolongs around I too bought some
> 6-7 years ago and they´re in amazing shape. Back to those dead
> samples, one possible explanation would be some excessive moisture [>~
> 4-5%] those teas contained before I put them into my oh-so airtight
> zircon-incrusted bags, since those bags had been stored under almost
> ideal conditions.
> What else is that tea afficionado supposed to carry on his travels ?
>
> Karsten [gongfuing some unknown yellowish Fujian Oolong]

I wouldn't be too quick to attribute integrity to tea middlemen. Puer
is really popular right now, and I think TGY, which previously was, as
I understand it, commanding the higher prices, is falling out of favor
a bit with the Chinese nouveau riche and those with money in HK and
Singapore.

Michael Plant wrote:
> snip
>
> > Many people tell me that living in Taiwan is leaps and bounds better
> > than living in China, that's for sure. As for Good TGY this year, you
> > are going to have to wait until the Autumn pick and hope for the best.
> > Both spring picks this year yielded very little good tea. The highest
> > grade is going around 800RMB which is 300-400 shy from the best grade
> > last year...what basically means that this year's highest grade dropped
> > a whole class.
> >
> > Anyway, autumn is right around the corner.
>
> What's really interesting about what you report is that they dropped the
> price because the leaf was less good. In the happy world of Pu'erh,
> I'm given to understand, the quality can fall through the floor, but the
> proce will forever rise. No price drops reflecting poor quality leaf to be
> seen. Sounds as though with TGY there's some integrity somewhere.
>
> Michael

> What's really interesting about what you report is that they dropped the
> price because the leaf was less good. In the happy world of Pu'erh,
> I'm given to understand, the quality can fall through the floor, but the
> proce will forever rise. No price drops reflecting poor quality leaf to be
> seen. Sounds as though with TGY there's some integrity somewhere.

It's all markets. It has little to do with integrity; I mean, you go
to shop, they will still try to tell you their tea is perfect and would
be happy to part with 1500-2000 for their rubbish tea. I got a couple
of good pals at market that usually tell me the approximate pricing
schemes for each season but that doesn't mean it's set in stone.

Anyway, the weather was wretched this year for mainland Wulongs. They
had a horrible dry spell during a very important time followed by days,
weeks, and months of rain. Not enough sunlight or too much sunlight
can ruin a crop. These things sorta determine the prices, not to
mention the sheer volume of tea produced. This year, not as much of
the higher quality stuff was produced so the costs are much lower.

With pu'er they are using leaves of all qualities to produce tea to fit
demand. We discussed this earlier: the 2005-2006 pu'er is much lower
quality than previous years because too many people are buying up all
the reserves. It's the 2003 stuff and back that's going to tell the
tale.

Mydnight wrote:
> With pu'er they are using leaves of all qualities to produce tea to fit
> demand. We discussed this earlier: the 2005-2006 pu'er is much lower
> quality than previous years because too many people are buying up all
> the reserves. It's the 2003 stuff and back that's going to tell the
> tale.
>

I have tasted some 2005 puerhs that were very good but prices were so
expensive that my first reaction was that it is probably price for an
aged tea quoted by mistake.