Hi all,

I've recently started a course of chemotherapy, and was told by a
reputable alternative practicioner/MD that the ideal tea consumption is
zero throughout the course, and for a few weeks after -- because the
antioxidants for which *T. sinensis* is famous hamper the effectiveness
of the chemo agents.

So I'm looking for input as to an acceptable herbal mixture to try that
has no antioxidants. Some caffiene would be a plus (yerba mate hax been
nixed as having antioxidants galore), and if it could taste like any sort
of real tea, that would be ideal - I don't want to go back to coffee for
necessary caffiene.

Is there anything remotely like that? I figure that this is the place to
ask if anywhere is. Thanks.

Ozzy

I wouldn't even try. Many of the tisanes are also full of
antioxidants. So are coffee and cocoa. Get caffiene tablets from the
drug store and take just enough so you don't get headaches. Drink a
lot of water. Toci
Ozzy wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I've recently started a course of chemotherapy, and was told by a
> reputable alternative practicioner/MD that the ideal tea consumption is
> zero throughout the course, and for a few weeks after -- because the
> antioxidants for which *T. sinensis* is famous hamper the effectiveness
> of the chemo agents.
>
> So I'm looking for input as to an acceptable herbal mixture to try that
> has no antioxidants. Some caffiene would be a plus (yerba mate hax been
> nixed as having antioxidants galore), and if it could taste like any sort
> of real tea, that would be ideal - I don't want to go back to coffee for
> necessary caffiene.
>
> Is there anything remotely like that? I figure that this is the place to
> ask if anywhere is. Thanks.
>
> Ozzy

Ozzy wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I've recently started a course of chemotherapy, and was told by a
> reputable alternative practicioner/MD that the ideal tea consumption is
> zero throughout the course, and for a few weeks after -- because the
> antioxidants for which *T. sinensis* is famous hamper the effectiveness
> of the chemo agents.
>
> So I'm looking for input as to an acceptable herbal mixture to try that
> has no antioxidants. Some caffiene would be a plus (yerba mate hax been
> nixed as having antioxidants galore), and if it could taste like any sort
> of real tea, that would be ideal - I don't want to go back to coffee for
> necessary caffiene.
>
> Is there anything remotely like that? I figure that this is the place to
> ask if anywhere is. Thanks.
>
> Ozzy

Hey Oz,

First off let me wish you well with your treatment, that is the most
important... but I know it would be hard to have to give up tea (even
temporarily). Let me also say that I am not a chemist, doctor, lawyer,
or candlestick maker so I would reccomend that you pass any of my
suggestions by a doctor (or candlestick maker if you can find one)
first.

I think Adagio is going to be a good bet for what you want.
http://www.adagio.com/ They have fair prices, samples, and good
shipping.

My fiance just bought some of their Sangria fruit tea and she liked it
a lot, although I don't see it on their website. They have a great
selection of fruit based teas, herbal teas, and Rooibos. I like
Lemongrass, Ginger, Chamomile, and Licorice. I have also made tea from
dried Hawthorn berries (I love Haw Flakes). Rooibos may be the real
winner though, as Adagio offers it in numerous flavors and types and it
may be OK. I tend to like these straight and not blended with other
herbs, so make sure you read the labels in stores or the descriptions
online... I bought some Chamomile that has cherry blossoms, slippery
elm bark, licorice, lemon zest and some other crap in it thinking it
was plain Chamomile and was none too happy.

Please read up though as I am not sure if Lemongrass or Rooibos contain
Antioxidents, if not I think you will have some great alternatives. In
fact this post has me with a cart filled with different samples from
Adagio right now of their herbal, fruit, and rooibos... all things I
normally don't even think of.

Best of luck!
- Dominic

Hi, Ozzy,
Believe it or not, Celestial Seasons makes one you might use
effectively and enjoy. My husband drinks it when he's real "tea'd out".
It's called "Caffeine Free Tea" .
Ingredients: Blackberry leaves, roasted chicory root, hawthorn berries,
beet root, natural tea flavor, and hibiscus flowers. Unfortunately, it
doesn't contain caffeine; but, it really resembles a restaurant cuppa.
Good luck!
Shen

> Hi all,
>
> I've recently started a course of chemotherapy, and was told by a
> reputable alternative practicioner/MD that the ideal tea consumption is
> zero throughout the course, and for a few weeks after -- because the
> antioxidants for which *T. sinensis* is famous hamper the effectiveness
> of the chemo agents.
>
> So I'm looking for input as to an acceptable herbal mixture to try that
> has no antioxidants. Some caffiene would be a plus (yerba mate hax been
> nixed as having antioxidants galore), and if it could taste like any sort
> of real tea, that would be ideal - I don't want to go back to coffee for
> necessary caffiene.
>
> Is there anything remotely like that? I figure that this is the place to
> ask if anywhere is. Thanks.
>
> Ozzy

On second thought, (re Dominic, as well): you may want to check with
your practitioner before using hawthorne berries. During chemo, you
want to watch your blood density and hawthorne affects blood pressure
and density (I am a retired alt practitioner).
I do belive, though, there is not too much in the CS mix.
Take care.
Shen
Shen wrote:
> Hi, Ozzy,
> Believe it or not, Celestial Seasons makes one you might use
> effectively and enjoy. My husband drinks it when he's real "tea'd out".
> It's called "Caffeine Free Tea" .
> Ingredients: Blackberry leaves, roasted chicory root, hawthorn berries,
> beet root, natural tea flavor, and hibiscus flowers. Unfortunately, it
> doesn't contain caffeine; but, it really resembles a restaurant cuppa.
> Good luck!
> Shen
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I've recently started a course of chemotherapy, and was told by a
> > reputable alternative practicioner/MD that the ideal tea consumption is
> > zero throughout the course, and for a few weeks after -- because the
> > antioxidants for which *T. sinensis* is famous hamper the effectiveness
> > of the chemo agents.
> >
> > So I'm looking for input as to an acceptable herbal mixture to try that
> > has no antioxidants. Some caffiene would be a plus (yerba mate hax been
> > nixed as having antioxidants galore), and if it could taste like any sort
> > of real tea, that would be ideal - I don't want to go back to coffee for
> > necessary caffiene.
> >
> > Is there anything remotely like that? I figure that this is the place to
> > ask if anywhere is. Thanks.
> >
> > Ozzy

Other things that are extremely high in antioxidants are any berries,
and rooibos. I'd check any tisane or infusion through with your
doctor. Report back to us on what he says? Toci
Ozzy wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I've recently started a course of chemotherapy, and was told by a
> reputable alternative practicioner/MD that the ideal tea consumption is
> zero throughout the course, and for a few weeks after -- because the
> antioxidants for which *T. sinensis* is famous hamper the effectiveness
> of the chemo agents.
>
> So I'm looking for input as to an acceptable herbal mixture to try that
> has no antioxidants. Some caffiene would be a plus (yerba mate hax been
> nixed as having antioxidants galore), and if it could taste like any sort
> of real tea, that would be ideal - I don't want to go back to coffee for
> necessary caffiene.
>
> Is there anything remotely like that? I figure that this is the place to
> ask if anywhere is. Thanks.
>
> Ozzy

"Shen" > wrote in
ups.com:

> On second thought, (re Dominic, as well): you may want to check with
> your practitioner before using hawthorne berries. During chemo, you
> want to watch your blood density and hawthorne affects blood pressure
> and density (I am a retired alt practitioner).
> I do belive, though, there is not too much in the CS mix.
> Take care.
> Shen
> Shen wrote:
>> Hi, Ozzy,
>> Believe it or not, Celestial Seasons makes one you might use
>> effectively and enjoy. My husband drinks it when he's real "tea'd
>> out". It's called "Caffeine Free Tea" .
>> Ingredients: Blackberry leaves, roasted chicory root, hawthorn
>> berries, beet root, natural tea flavor, and hibiscus flowers.
>> Unfortunately, it doesn't contain caffeine; but, it really resembles a
>> restaurant cuppa. Good luck!
>> Shen


Hi Shen,

Might run that mix past him and see what he says -- though as far as the the
"Natural Tea Flavor", I should think that the anti-oxidants play a certain
part in tea's characteristic taste.

And isn't Beet Root a source of sugar? (Another theory he embraces is that
metastisc disease is aggravated by carbohydrates, the less complex the
worse. Also certain growth factors are indicated in cancer return, like
vitamin B1 supplementation, the growth hormones they feed to American cattle
& chickens on factory farms, etc.)

But the prospect of drinking as much as I need of something that tastes like
tea is a powerful inducment to action . Thanks.

Ozzy

Ozzy > wrote in news:Xns9828C60EDAC3ETheLoneAndLevelSands@
130.81.64.196:

I wish to thank you all for your good wishes, so valuable as all such are.

My maximum hopes were to find another would-be tea gourmet (and certain tea
gourmand ) who had gone through chemo, and could have advised me from the
invaluable perspective of someone who'd been there.

Although I know the fact is hotly contested, I still think that the members
of this NG would be on the whole a little less likely to have gone through
something like this, because heavy tea-drinking *is* prophylactic against
certain types of cancer.

Health to all,
Ozzy

BTW, it's probably going to be a matter of years at least, so the luck is
already beginning. :-)

Hey, good luck in your chemo. I don't know but I remember seeing some
links that black puer is good for cancer treatment. Maybe Mike has
some links on his site. I guess I would do some research that all teas
across the board are bad for chemo. A weak cup of tea still taste
good.

Jim

Ozzy wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I've recently started a course of chemotherapy, and was told by a
> reputable alternative practicioner/MD that the ideal tea consumption is
> zero throughout the course, and for a few weeks after -- because the
> antioxidants for which *T. sinensis* is famous hamper the effectiveness
> of the chemo agents.
>
> So I'm looking for input as to an acceptable herbal mixture to try that
> has no antioxidants. Some caffiene would be a plus (yerba mate hax been
> nixed as having antioxidants galore), and if it could taste like any sort
> of real tea, that would be ideal - I don't want to go back to coffee for
> necessary caffiene.
>
> Is there anything remotely like that? I figure that this is the place to
> ask if anywhere is. Thanks.
>
> Ozzy

Ozzy > wrote:
>
>So I'm looking for input as to an acceptable herbal mixture to try that
>has no antioxidants. Some caffiene would be a plus (yerba mate hax been
>nixed as having antioxidants galore), and if it could taste like any sort
>of real tea, that would be ideal - I don't want to go back to coffee for
>necessary caffiene.

Look for "Greek Mountain Tea" at a Greek deli. Krinos sells the stuff.
It's a little bit minty but it has a grassy sort of green-tea like flavour.
It's not tea, but it's a nice drink.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Space Cowboy" > wrote in
oups.com:

> Hey, good luck in your chemo. I don't know but I remember seeing some
> links that black puer is good for cancer treatment. Maybe Mike has
> some links on his site. I guess I would do some research that all teas
> across the board are bad for chemo. A weak cup of tea still taste
> good.
>
> Jim
>

Thanks muchly, Jim. The alt/MD (who spent a fairly long time on staff in
Sloan-Kettering Hospital and is in additional a traditional Chinese
herbalist) specifically nixed all tea but Green, one cup per day, and has
made it clear that he would prefer if I cut out tea completely during chemo.
(I'm paying this guy after all, and I want to believe that his advice is
worth something :-) )

I do favour cooked pu-erhs sometimes (especially in the cold-y season --
helped get me through my post-surgical Winter of '04-'05)

Ozzy

Ozzy,

If I was doing chemo or radiation I would use TCM from the side
effects. I would make sure they practiced in China first and can speak
the language. I included the Chinese keyword links for a Google
search. There might be something you can use but mainly false
positives for chemotherapy. Puer it seems is used in radiation
treatment not chemo. You can use the keywords on the optional
translation. If vomiting is a side effect I would definitely drink
black puer if I couldn't smoke pot. It is also a fact people who are
proactive in their treatment from any sickness recuperate faster with
better results.

http://tinyurl.com/r7xfq pu'er chemotherapy

http://tinyurl.com/lh5vy pu'er cancer

Best of luck. Keep us posted on tea and the use of chemo. I still
don't know perse off the top of my head what is contradicted in tea
with chemo but a little Internet searching should find some information
I don't know what I would do if somebody cut me off from tea.

Jim

Ozzy wrote:
> "Space Cowboy" > wrote in
> oups.com:
>
> > Hey, good luck in your chemo. I don't know but I remember seeing some
> > links that black puer is good for cancer treatment. Maybe Mike has
> > some links on his site. I guess I would do some research that all teas
> > across the board are bad for chemo. A weak cup of tea still taste
> > good.
> >
> > Jim
> >
>
> Thanks muchly, Jim. The alt/MD (who spent a fairly long time on staff in
> Sloan-Kettering Hospital and is in additional a traditional Chinese
> herbalist) specifically nixed all tea but Green, one cup per day, and has
> made it clear that he would prefer if I cut out tea completely during chemo.
> (I'm paying this guy after all, and I want to believe that his advice is
> worth something :-) )
>
> I do favour cooked pu-erhs sometimes (especially in the cold-y season --
> helped get me through my post-surgical Winter of '04-'05)
>
> Ozzy

"Space Cowboy" > wrote in
ups.com:

> Ozzy,
>
> If I was doing chemo or radiation I would use TCM from the side
> effects. I would make sure they practiced in China first and can speak
> the language. I included the Chinese keyword links for a Google
> search. There might be something you can use but mainly false
> positives for chemotherapy. Puer it seems is used in radiation
> treatment not chemo. You can use the keywords on the optional
> translation. If vomiting is a side effect I would definitely drink
> black puer if I couldn't smoke pot. It is also a fact people who are
> proactive in their treatment from any sickness recuperate faster with
> better results.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/r7xfq pu'er chemotherapy
>
> http://tinyurl.com/lh5vy pu'er cancer
>
> Best of luck. Keep us posted on tea and the use of chemo. I still
> don't know perse off the top of my head what is contradicted in tea
> with chemo but a little Internet searching should find some information
> I don't know what I would do if somebody cut me off from tea.
>
> Jim


Thank you very much, Jim, for doing the research above and for the good
wishes. (Unfortunately this is no false positive; I had a biopsy done on
the suspicious area to determine just what it was. It proved to be a
tumor -- fortunately a small, lazy tumor, very slow-growing :=) -- in
medical jargon, "non-agressive").

All the oncologists whom I consulted concurred: since further surgery was
out of the question due to location of it, both chemo & radiation
*concurrently* would give me the best chance of being truly cancer free.
So, with great reluctance and hestitation, having heard the same horror
stories that most of you have, that is what I'm doing.

If it were only radiation alone, that has no biochemical method of
operation, I would almost certainly drink vast quantities of the tea I
liked best and/or was theraputic. just as I did after the first surgery.
(At that time there was the positive expereince of learning more about
tea itself and different ways to appreciate it. BTW, for what I learned
about what was what in the world of tea from this NG, I wish to thank all
of you.)

I think the fact that antioxandants (not just those in tea, but all of
them, Vitamin C, Cocoa, etc.) oppose the platinum agents (i.e. standard
for my type of cancer) is valid -- at least the doctors in whose
competence I'm truating my life all do. Perhaps I'll do more indepedent
research at a later time, but for now, the boat has sailed.

I'm on the third week of both therapies, and while I wouldn't recommend
either of them as an addition to anyone's experiences, they're not so
terrible in and of themselves, and you do what you have to do -- or what
you believe is necessary to live.

That having been said, as a veritable newbie to this stuff I have on some
occaisons drunk a little more than the frowning limit of a cup of green
that was recommended. I'm *no* superman, wishful thinking to the
affirmative notwithstanding :-) -- and tea is too much a part of my life
to give up totally at one go.

Ozzie

Thanks for the followup and still keep us posted. I don't know
anything about chemo. From what you said I guess you can eat all the
meat and dairy you want with no fruits or vegetables. I would pork
down on chicken dumplings made with lard. I hit a few of the medical
abstract sites and can't find anything on avoiding tea with chemo.
Essentially the hits are tea is a chemotherapy in prevention and not a
cure. I did find Chinese Medical dictionaries. I learned in my
corporate years to ask the dumb questions that everyone was thinking.
I can say cavalierly I'm drinking my teas so up the doses Doc. I guess
my teas will go in the crematorium along with me as mulch for my wife's
gardens.

Jim

Ozzy wrote:
> "Space Cowboy" > wrote in
> ups.com:
>
> > Ozzy,
> >
> > If I was doing chemo or radiation I would use TCM from the side
> > effects. I would make sure they practiced in China first and can speak
> > the language. I included the Chinese keyword links for a Google
> > search. There might be something you can use but mainly false
> > positives for chemotherapy. Puer it seems is used in radiation
> > treatment not chemo. You can use the keywords on the optional
> > translation. If vomiting is a side effect I would definitely drink
> > black puer if I couldn't smoke pot. It is also a fact people who are
> > proactive in their treatment from any sickness recuperate faster with
> > better results.
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/r7xfq pu'er chemotherapy
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/lh5vy pu'er cancer
> >
> > Best of luck. Keep us posted on tea and the use of chemo. I still
> > don't know perse off the top of my head what is contradicted in tea
> > with chemo but a little Internet searching should find some information
> > I don't know what I would do if somebody cut me off from tea.
> >
> > Jim
>
>
> Thank you very much, Jim, for doing the research above and for the good
> wishes. (Unfortunately this is no false positive; I had a biopsy done on
> the suspicious area to determine just what it was. It proved to be a
> tumor -- fortunately a small, lazy tumor, very slow-growing :=) -- in
> medical jargon, "non-agressive").
>
> All the oncologists whom I consulted concurred: since further surgery was
> out of the question due to location of it, both chemo & radiation
> *concurrently* would give me the best chance of being truly cancer free.
> So, with great reluctance and hestitation, having heard the same horror
> stories that most of you have, that is what I'm doing.
>
> If it were only radiation alone, that has no biochemical method of
> operation, I would almost certainly drink vast quantities of the tea I
> liked best and/or was theraputic. just as I did after the first surgery.
> (At that time there was the positive expereince of learning more about
> tea itself and different ways to appreciate it. BTW, for what I learned
> about what was what in the world of tea from this NG, I wish to thank all
> of you.)
>
> I think the fact that antioxandants (not just those in tea, but all of
> them, Vitamin C, Cocoa, etc.) oppose the platinum agents (i.e. standard
> for my type of cancer) is valid -- at least the doctors in whose
> competence I'm truating my life all do. Perhaps I'll do more indepedent
> research at a later time, but for now, the boat has sailed.
>
> I'm on the third week of both therapies, and while I wouldn't recommend
> either of them as an addition to anyone's experiences, they're not so
> terrible in and of themselves, and you do what you have to do -- or what
> you believe is necessary to live.
>
> That having been said, as a veritable newbie to this stuff I have on some
> occaisons drunk a little more than the frowning limit of a cup of green
> that was recommended. I'm *no* superman, wishful thinking to the
> affirmative notwithstanding :-) -- and tea is too much a part of my life
> to give up totally at one go.
>
> Ozzie