What makes a diet "calorie-restricted"??

They used to feed us 3K-calorie breakfasts during Army basic training.
Them MREs are supposed to be like 5K calories! I was in the best shape
of my life, despite having accrued problems like a bad back, etc.

How many calories does the body need if you're staying home all day
reading a book or watching one of them holiday season re-run marathons
(Honeymooners, Star Trek, Three's Company, Godzilla)?

How many calories if you go to the gym three times a week
weight-lifting for about an hour each session?

I must say, I'm impressed to learn that the Dalai Lama is, what, close
to seventy? He really looks forty-something!

Also, I wonder what effect sex and the sex drive have on all this...I
feel most alive when having sex, but in between girls I also feel
great, just in a different way...kinda like the strength you feel
before a workout, and the sense of strength you have after it....



http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/31/he...&ex=1162530000


EXCERPTS

"In mice, calorie restriction doesn't just extend life span,"
said Leonard P. Guarente, professor of biology at the Massachusetts
Institute of Technology. "It mitigates many diseases of aging:
cancer, cardiovascular disease, neurodegenerative disease. The gain is
just enormous."

....

Despite widespread scientific enthusiasm, the evidence that calorie
restriction works in humans is indirect at best. The practice was
popularized in diet books by Dr. Roy Walford, a legendary pathologist
at the University of California, Los Angeles, who spent much of the
last 30 years of his life following a calorie-restricted regimen. He
died of Lou Gehrig's disease in 2004 at 79.

....

Animals on restricted diets seem particularly resistant to
environmental stresses like oxidation and heat, perhaps even radiation.
"It is a very deep, very important function," Dr. Miller said.
Experts theorize that limited access to energy alarms the body, so to
speak, activating a cascade of biochemical signals that tell each cell
to direct energy away from reproductive functions, toward repair and
maintenance. The calorie-restricted organism is stronger, according to
this hypothesis, because individual cells are more efficiently
repairing mutations, using energy, defending themselves and mopping up
harmful byproducts like free radicals.

....

"The stressed cell is really pulling out all the stops" to preserve
itself, said Dr. Cynthia Kenyon, a molecular biologist at the
University of California, San Francisco. "This system could have
evolved as a way of letting animals take a timeout from reproduction
when times are harsh."

....

Despite the initially promising results from studies of primates, some
scientists doubt that calorie restriction can ever work effectively in
humans. A mathematical model published last year by researchers at
University of California, Los Angeles, and University of California,
Irvine, predicted that the maximum life span gain from calorie
restriction for humans would be just 7 percent. A more likely figure,
the authors said, was 2 percent.

....

While an anti-aging pill may be the next big blockbuster, some
ethicists believe that the all-out determination to extend life span is
veined with arrogance. As appointments with death are postponed, says
Dr. Leon R. Kass, former chairman of the President's Council on
Bioethics, human lives may become less engaging, less meaningful, even
less beautiful.

"Mortality makes life matter," Dr. Kass recently wrote.
"Immortality is a kind of oblivion - like death itself."

That man's time on this planet is limited, and rightfully so, is a
cultural belief deeply held by many. But whether an increasing life
span affords greater opportunity to find meaning or distracts from the
pursuit, the prospect has become too great a temptation to ignore -
least of all, for scientists.

"It's a just big waste of talent and wisdom to have people die in
their 60s and 70s," said Dr. Sinclair of Harvard.

NYC XYZ wrote:
> What makes a diet "calorie-restricted"??

It's when CALORIES_EATEN < CALORIES_BURNED.

CALORIES_BURNED = (Basal Metabolic Rate * Activity Factor) + (Extra
Exercise)

> They used to feed us 3K-calorie breakfasts during Army basic training.
> Them MREs are supposed to be like 5K calories! I was in the best shape
> of my life, despite having accrued problems like a bad back, etc.

When I was in good shape, I often gulped down a protein drink before a
climb even when I wasn't hungry. Still, the above rules are in effect.

*** BMR ***

Harris-Benedict (normal):
BMR(men) = 66.473 + 5.003 x (length) + 13.752 x (weight) - 6.755 x
(age)
BMR(women) = 655.096 + 1.850 x (length) + 9.563 x (weight) - 4.676 x
(age)

Harris-Benedict/Rosa (obese):
BMR (men) = 88.362 + 4.799 x (length) + 13.397 x (weight) - 5.677 x
(age);
BMR (women) = 447.593 + 3.098 x (length) + 9.247 x (weight) - 4.330 x
(age)

There are plenty of online calculators that do this for you.

> How many calories does the body need if you're staying home all day
> reading a book or watching one of them holiday season re-run marathons
> (Honeymooners, Star Trek, Three's Company, Godzilla)?

*** Activity Factor ***
BMR x 1.1 (sedentary) is probably appropriate.

> How many calories if you go to the gym three times a week
> weight-lifting for about an hour each session?

*** Activity Factor ***
BMR x 1.4 (light-to-moderate exercise) is probably appropriate.

> Despite widespread scientific enthusiasm, the evidence that calorie
> restriction works in humans is indirect at best.

Dieting works for some, and the only alternatives are drugs and surgery.

These "restricted calorie" studies are pure crap. The control groups
are usually fed un-natural pelletized manufactured crap for food. Then
when they feed the test group less of the crap food, they live longer
than the control group. Then they attribute it to restricted calories.
Hey, the less poison you eat the longer you will live. It is that
simple. It has nothing to do with calories.

TC

NYC XYZ wrote:
> What makes a diet "calorie-restricted"??
>
> They used to feed us 3K-calorie breakfasts during Army basic training.
> Them MREs are supposed to be like 5K calories! I was in the best shape
> of my life, despite having accrued problems like a bad back, etc.
>
> How many calories does the body need if you're staying home all day
> reading a book or watching one of them holiday season re-run marathons
> (Honeymooners, Star Trek, Three's Company, Godzilla)?
>
> How many calories if you go to the gym three times a week
> weight-lifting for about an hour each session?
>
> I must say, I'm impressed to learn that the Dalai Lama is, what, close
> to seventy? He really looks forty-something!
>
> Also, I wonder what effect sex and the sex drive have on all this...I
> feel most alive when having sex, but in between girls I also feel
> great, just in a different way...kinda like the strength you feel
> before a workout, and the sense of strength you have after it....
>
>
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/31/he...&ex=1162530000
>
>
> EXCERPTS
>
> "In mice, calorie restriction doesn't just extend life span,"
> said Leonard P. Guarente, professor of biology at the Massachusetts
> Institute of Technology. "It mitigates many diseases of aging:
> cancer, cardiovascular disease, neurodegenerative disease. The gain is
> just enormous."
>
> ...
>
> Despite widespread scientific enthusiasm, the evidence that calorie
> restriction works in humans is indirect at best. The practice was
> popularized in diet books by Dr. Roy Walford, a legendary pathologist
> at the University of California, Los Angeles, who spent much of the
> last 30 years of his life following a calorie-restricted regimen. He
> died of Lou Gehrig's disease in 2004 at 79.
>
> ...
>
> Animals on restricted diets seem particularly resistant to
> environmental stresses like oxidation and heat, perhaps even radiation.
> "It is a very deep, very important function," Dr. Miller said.
> Experts theorize that limited access to energy alarms the body, so to
> speak, activating a cascade of biochemical signals that tell each cell
> to direct energy away from reproductive functions, toward repair and
> maintenance. The calorie-restricted organism is stronger, according to
> this hypothesis, because individual cells are more efficiently
> repairing mutations, using energy, defending themselves and mopping up
> harmful byproducts like free radicals.
>
> ...
>
> "The stressed cell is really pulling out all the stops" to preserve
> itself, said Dr. Cynthia Kenyon, a molecular biologist at the
> University of California, San Francisco. "This system could have
> evolved as a way of letting animals take a timeout from reproduction
> when times are harsh."
>
> ...
>
> Despite the initially promising results from studies of primates, some
> scientists doubt that calorie restriction can ever work effectively in
> humans. A mathematical model published last year by researchers at
> University of California, Los Angeles, and University of California,
> Irvine, predicted that the maximum life span gain from calorie
> restriction for humans would be just 7 percent. A more likely figure,
> the authors said, was 2 percent.
>
> ...
>
> While an anti-aging pill may be the next big blockbuster, some
> ethicists believe that the all-out determination to extend life span is
> veined with arrogance. As appointments with death are postponed, says
> Dr. Leon R. Kass, former chairman of the President's Council on
> Bioethics, human lives may become less engaging, less meaningful, even
> less beautiful.
>
> "Mortality makes life matter," Dr. Kass recently wrote.
> "Immortality is a kind of oblivion - like death itself."
>
> That man's time on this planet is limited, and rightfully so, is a
> cultural belief deeply held by many. But whether an increasing life
> span affords greater opportunity to find meaning or distracts from the
> pursuit, the prospect has become too great a temptation to ignore -
> least of all, for scientists.
>
> "It's a just big waste of talent and wisdom to have people die in
> their 60s and 70s," said Dr. Sinclair of Harvard.

"TC" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> These "restricted calorie" studies are pure crap. The control groups
> are usually fed un-natural pelletized manufactured crap for food. Then
> when they feed the test group less of the crap food, they live longer
> than the control group. Then they attribute it to restricted calories.
> Hey, the less poison you eat the longer you will live. It is that
> simple. It has nothing to do with calories.


How can anyone have an intelligent dissussion with TC when he see's
ghosts and goblins 252 days of year.

-DF

Doug Freese wrote:
> "TC" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > These "restricted calorie" studies are pure crap. The control groups
> > are usually fed un-natural pelletized manufactured crap for food. Then
> > when they feed the test group less of the crap food, they live longer
> > than the control group. Then they attribute it to restricted calories.
> > Hey, the less poison you eat the longer you will live. It is that
> > simple. It has nothing to do with calories.
>
>
> How can anyone have an intelligent dissussion with TC when he see's
> ghosts and goblins 252 days of year.
>
> -DF

Have you read any of the studies discussed? I have.

TC

On 1 Nov 2006 19:09:26 -0800, "TC" > wrote:

>
>Doug Freese wrote:
>> "TC" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>> > These "restricted calorie" studies are pure crap. The control groups
>> > are usually fed un-natural pelletized manufactured crap for food. Then
>> > when they feed the test group less of the crap food, they live longer
>> > than the control group. Then they attribute it to restricted calories.
>> > Hey, the less poison you eat the longer you will live. It is that
>> > simple. It has nothing to do with calories.
>>
>>
>> How can anyone have an intelligent dissussion with TC when he see's
>> ghosts and goblins 252 days of year.
>>
>> -DF
>
>Have you read any of the studies discussed? I have.
>
>TC

Reading and understanding are two different things.

wrote:
> On 1 Nov 2006 19:09:26 -0800, "TC" > wrote:
>
> >
> >Doug Freese wrote:
> >> "TC" > wrote in message
> >> oups.com...
> >> > These "restricted calorie" studies are pure crap. The control groups
> >> > are usually fed un-natural pelletized manufactured crap for food. Then
> >> > when they feed the test group less of the crap food, they live longer
> >> > than the control group. Then they attribute it to restricted calories.
> >> > Hey, the less poison you eat the longer you will live. It is that
> >> > simple. It has nothing to do with calories.
> >>
> >>
> >> How can anyone have an intelligent dissussion with TC when he see's
> >> ghosts and goblins 252 days of year.
> >>
> >> -DF
> >
> >Have you read any of the studies discussed? I have.
> >
> >TC
>
> Reading and understanding are two different things.

It isn't rocket science. Trust me, it isn't rocket science. Rocket
science has actually succeeded and has actually placed a man on the
moon and probes on Mars. Food science has only succeeded in giving us
the highest rates of obesity and diet related chronic disease in world
history, which is diametrically opposite to their stated goals.

I suggest you start reading these nutrition studies closely and with
an, at least, mildly critical eye. You will get an education on what
garbage science really is.

TC

i've noticed as people age past 60 there are less fat ones
NYC XYZ wrote:
> What makes a diet "calorie-restricted"??
>
> They used to feed us 3K-calorie breakfasts during Army basic training.
> Them MREs are supposed to be like 5K calories! I was in the best shape
> of my life, despite having accrued problems like a bad back, etc.
>
> How many calories does the body need if you're staying home all day
> reading a book or watching one of them holiday season re-run marathons
> (Honeymooners, Star Trek, Three's Company, Godzilla)?
>
> How many calories if you go to the gym three times a week
> weight-lifting for about an hour each session?
>
> I must say, I'm impressed to learn that the Dalai Lama is, what, close
> to seventy? He really looks forty-something!
>
> Also, I wonder what effect sex and the sex drive have on all this...I
> feel most alive when having sex, but in between girls I also feel
> great, just in a different way...kinda like the strength you feel
> before a workout, and the sense of strength you have after it....
>
>
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/31/he...&ex=1162530000
>
>
> EXCERPTS
>
> "In mice, calorie restriction doesn't just extend life span,"
> said Leonard P. Guarente, professor of biology at the Massachusetts
> Institute of Technology. "It mitigates many diseases of aging:
> cancer, cardiovascular disease, neurodegenerative disease. The gain is
> just enormous."
>
> ...
>
> Despite widespread scientific enthusiasm, the evidence that calorie
> restriction works in humans is indirect at best. The practice was
> popularized in diet books by Dr. Roy Walford, a legendary pathologist
> at the University of California, Los Angeles, who spent much of the
> last 30 years of his life following a calorie-restricted regimen. He
> died of Lou Gehrig's disease in 2004 at 79.
>
> ...
>
> Animals on restricted diets seem particularly resistant to
> environmental stresses like oxidation and heat, perhaps even radiation.
> "It is a very deep, very important function," Dr. Miller said.
> Experts theorize that limited access to energy alarms the body, so to
> speak, activating a cascade of biochemical signals that tell each cell
> to direct energy away from reproductive functions, toward repair and
> maintenance. The calorie-restricted organism is stronger, according to
> this hypothesis, because individual cells are more efficiently
> repairing mutations, using energy, defending themselves and mopping up
> harmful byproducts like free radicals.
>
> ...
>
> "The stressed cell is really pulling out all the stops" to preserve
> itself, said Dr. Cynthia Kenyon, a molecular biologist at the
> University of California, San Francisco. "This system could have
> evolved as a way of letting animals take a timeout from reproduction
> when times are harsh."
>
> ...
>
> Despite the initially promising results from studies of primates, some
> scientists doubt that calorie restriction can ever work effectively in
> humans. A mathematical model published last year by researchers at
> University of California, Los Angeles, and University of California,
> Irvine, predicted that the maximum life span gain from calorie
> restriction for humans would be just 7 percent. A more likely figure,
> the authors said, was 2 percent.
>
> ...
>
> While an anti-aging pill may be the next big blockbuster, some
> ethicists believe that the all-out determination to extend life span is
> veined with arrogance. As appointments with death are postponed, says
> Dr. Leon R. Kass, former chairman of the President's Council on
> Bioethics, human lives may become less engaging, less meaningful, even
> less beautiful.
>
> "Mortality makes life matter," Dr. Kass recently wrote.
> "Immortality is a kind of oblivion - like death itself."
>
> That man's time on this planet is limited, and rightfully so, is a
> cultural belief deeply held by many. But whether an increasing life
> span affords greater opportunity to find meaning or distracts from the
> pursuit, the prospect has become too great a temptation to ignore -
> least of all, for scientists.
>
> "It's a just big waste of talent and wisdom to have people die in
> their 60s and 70s," said Dr. Sinclair of Harvard.

NYC XYZ wrote:
>
> What makes a diet "calorie-restricted"??

And how do you map rat results to human results? If they even DO map.

Note that rats are fed a high carb grain based diet. Reduce their feed
30% and they live longer. The calorie people will point at the reduced
calorie count and say eat less. The carb people will point at the
reduced carb count and say eat low carb. The grain intolerance
people will look at rats and ask "mooo?" figuring rats eat grain and
are therefore related to cattle. The vegans will point out that the
rats
aren't getting meat are the ones that are healthy.

We can't put a bunch of humans in cages for their entire lives and feed
each set a different number of calories and see how it comes out 120
years later.

"Doug Freyburger" > wrote in message oups.com...
> NYC XYZ wrote:
> >
> > What makes a diet "calorie-restricted"??
>
> And how do you map rat results to human results? If they even DO map.
>
> Note that rats are fed a high carb grain based diet. Reduce their feed
> 30% and they live longer. The calorie people will point at the reduced
> calorie count and say eat less. The carb people will point at the
> reduced carb count and say eat low carb. The grain intolerance
> people will look at rats and ask "mooo?" figuring rats eat grain and
> are therefore related to cattle. The vegans will point out that the
> rats
> aren't getting meat are the ones that are healthy.
>
> We can't put a bunch of humans in cages for their entire lives and feed
> each set a different number of calories and see how it comes out 120
> years later.
>

Now you've done it. You've gone and trampled upon a religion called CRON whose god is the late Roy Walford, M.D. Walford wrote the CRON bible The 120 Year Diet. He didn't make it past 79. But dying of ALS doesn't count. He would have lived to 120 if he hadn't died.

When you're an athiest there is no afterlife except if you have faith in getting frozen and later revivified, so you've got to believe CRON will enable you to live forever. It's not nice to trample on other people's religion.

people lived hundreds of years before the flood
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...er=5&version=9 and
120 was the age limit set in Genesis 6:3
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...er=6&version=9
TP wrote:
> "Doug Freyburger" > wrote in message oups.com...
> > NYC XYZ wrote:
> > >
> > > What makes a diet "calorie-restricted"??
> >
> > And how do you map rat results to human results? If they even DO map.
> >
> > Note that rats are fed a high carb grain based diet. Reduce their feed
> > 30% and they live longer. The calorie people will point at the reduced
> > calorie count and say eat less. The carb people will point at the
> > reduced carb count and say eat low carb. The grain intolerance
> > people will look at rats and ask "mooo?" figuring rats eat grain and
> > are therefore related to cattle. The vegans will point out that the
> > rats
> > aren't getting meat are the ones that are healthy.
> >
> > We can't put a bunch of humans in cages for their entire lives and feed
> > each set a different number of calories and see how it comes out 120
> > years later.
> >
>
> Now you've done it. You've gone and trampled upon a religion called CRON whose god is the late Roy Walford, M.D. Walford wrote the CRON bible The 120 Year Diet. He didn't make it past 79. But dying of ALS doesn't count. He would have lived to 120 if he hadn't died.
>
> When you're an athiest there is no afterlife except if you have faith in getting frozen and later revivified, so you've got to believe CRON will enable you to live forever. It's not nice to trample on other people's religion.
> ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C6FDFB.5F6F8300
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> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>"Doug Freyburger" &lt;</FONT><A
> "><FONT face=Arial
> </FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>&gt; wrote in
> message </FONT><A
> oglegroups.com"><FONT
> face=Arial
> ooglegroups.com</FONT></A><FONT
> face=Arial size=2>...</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>&gt; NYC XYZ wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; What
> makes a diet "calorie-restricted"??<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; And how do you map rat
> results to human results?&nbsp; If they even DO map.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Note that
> rats are fed a high carb grain based diet.&nbsp; Reduce their feed<BR>&gt; 30%
> and they live longer.&nbsp; The calorie people will point at the reduced<BR>&gt;
> calorie count and say eat less.&nbsp; The carb people will point at the<BR>&gt;
> reduced carb count and say eat low carb.&nbsp; The grain intolerance<BR>&gt;
> people will look at rats and ask "mooo?" figuring rats eat grain and<BR>&gt; are
> therefore related to cattle.&nbsp; The vegans will point out that the<BR>&gt;
> rats<BR>&gt; aren't getting meat are the ones that are healthy.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;
> We can't put a bunch of humans in cages for their entire lives and feed<BR>&gt;
> each set a different number of calories and see how it comes out 120<BR>&gt;
> years later.<BR>&gt; </FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Now you've done it.&nbsp; You've gone and trampled
> upon a religion called CRON&nbsp;whose&nbsp;god is&nbsp;the late Roy Walford,
> M.D.&nbsp;Walford wrote the CRON bible <U>The 120 Year Diet</U>.&nbsp;
> He&nbsp;didn't make it past 79. But dying of ALS
> doesn't&nbsp;count.&nbsp;&nbsp;He would have lived to 120 if he hadn't
> died.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>When you're an athiest there is no afterlife except
> if you&nbsp;have faith in getting frozen and later revivified, so you've got to
> believe CRON will enable you to live forever.&nbsp; It's not nice to trample on
> other people's religion.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C6FDFB.5F6F8300--

> We can't put a bunch of humans in cages for their entire lives and feed
> each set a different number of calories and see how it comes out 120
> years later.

It looks several people are trying thing of their own will.
They dont look particularly happy.
I gone on weight control diets for long periods of time in the sub-2K
range.
After a couple weeks of initial discomfort, it gets easy. AT that
point you
switch to a low-metabolism mode and can even stop losing weight.
Its difficult to continue this for a long time.

Doug Freyburger wrote:
> NYC XYZ wrote:
> >
> > What makes a diet "calorie-restricted"??
>
> And how do you map rat results to human results? If they even DO map.
>
> Note that rats are fed a high carb grain based diet. Reduce their feed
> 30% and they live longer. The calorie people will point at the reduced
> calorie count and say eat less. The carb people will point at the
> reduced carb count and say eat low carb. The grain intolerance
> people will look at rats and ask "mooo?" figuring rats eat grain and
> are therefore related to cattle. The vegans will point out that the
> rats
> aren't getting meat are the ones that are healthy.
>
> We can't put a bunch of humans in cages for their entire lives and feed
> each set a different number of calories and see how it comes out 120
> years later.

No we can't put a bunch of humans in cages for their entire lives and
feed each set a different number of calories and see how it comes out
120 years later. But we can look at the simple fact that more than 95%
of people who try to lose weight by counting calories FAIL.

Forget the calories. They are a waste of time.

TC

wrote:
> Doug Freyburger wrote:
>> NYC XYZ wrote:
>>>
>>> What makes a diet "calorie-restricted"??
>>
>> And how do you map rat results to human results? If they even DO
>> map.
>>
>> Note that rats are fed a high carb grain based diet. Reduce their
>> feed 30% and they live longer. The calorie people will point at the
>> reduced calorie count and say eat less. The carb people will point
>> at the reduced carb count and say eat low carb. The grain
>> intolerance
>> people will look at rats and ask "mooo?" figuring rats eat grain and
>> are therefore related to cattle. The vegans will point out that the
>> rats
>> aren't getting meat are the ones that are healthy.
>>
>> We can't put a bunch of humans in cages for their entire lives and
>> feed each set a different number of calories and see how it comes
>> out 120 years later.
>
> No we can't put a bunch of humans in cages for their entire lives and
> feed each set a different number of calories and see how it comes out
> 120 years later. But we can look at the simple fact that more than
> 95% of people who try to lose weight by counting calories FAIL.
>
> Forget the calories. They are a waste of time.

It's the people who fail, not the calories!!!


--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Bully wrote:
> wrote:
> > Doug Freyburger wrote:
> >> NYC XYZ wrote:
> >>>
> >>> What makes a diet "calorie-restricted"??
> >>
> >> And how do you map rat results to human results? If they even DO
> >> map.
> >>
> >> Note that rats are fed a high carb grain based diet. Reduce their
> >> feed 30% and they live longer. The calorie people will point at the
> >> reduced calorie count and say eat less. The carb people will point
> >> at the reduced carb count and say eat low carb. The grain
> >> intolerance
> >> people will look at rats and ask "mooo?" figuring rats eat grain and
> >> are therefore related to cattle. The vegans will point out that the
> >> rats
> >> aren't getting meat are the ones that are healthy.
> >>
> >> We can't put a bunch of humans in cages for their entire lives and
> >> feed each set a different number of calories and see how it comes
> >> out 120 years later.
> >
> > No we can't put a bunch of humans in cages for their entire lives and
> > feed each set a different number of calories and see how it comes out
> > 120 years later. But we can look at the simple fact that more than
> > 95% of people who try to lose weight by counting calories FAIL.
> >
> > Forget the calories. They are a waste of time.
>

> It's the people who fail, not the calories!!!

Sure. The *people*. Riiiiiight.

For every 100 people that try to lose weight by restricting calories in
their diet and burning more calories thru exercise, more than 95 of
them will fail to achieve their goals. Why is that? Why cannot smart
dedicated and sometimes desperate people not succeed in reducing their
weight by counting calories? Not all are smart and dedicated, but many
are, and they fail too. And even desperate people on VLCDs, eating
between 800 to 1200 calories per day, even they fail almost invariably.


It isn't that difficult to cut back 10 or 20% or even more off of ones
dietary caloric consumption. Especially with all the low fat products
available. And maintaining that is not that hard. I've done it. But it
certainly did not result in the weight loss expected. Millions do it,
and fail to achieve the weight loss projected. Cutting calories
consumed and increasing activities to burn calories is easy to do, and
millions do it, without achieving their weight loss goals. 95% of the
people who do it fail to achieve their goals.

If the program, as described and as applied by real people in the real
world, fails in more than 95% of cases, then it is the program that is
flawed.

You cannot possibly fault more than 95% of the people who genuinely
want to lose weight.

Statistically speaking, if the program works, it *will* work in *more*
than 95% of cases. Which happens to be the exact opposite of what
actually happens in the real world.

You would think that at least 20 or 30 or 40 or 50% would succeed. If
that were the case, I just might buy into the argument that many people
fail to follow the program and they sabotage themselves in various
ways.

But less than 5% success rate? Come on. You're dreaming. In
technicolour.

TC

>
>
> --
> Bully
> Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk
>
> "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
> matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

TC wrote:
[...]
> But less than 5% success rate? Come on. You're dreaming. In
> technicolour.
>
> TC
>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Bully
>> Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk
>>
>> "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
>> matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

From where are you getting your stats?

--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

"But we can look at the simple fact that more than 95% of people who try
to lose weight by counting calories FAIL.

Forget the calories. They are a waste of time."

But we can look at all people who lose weight and note that many fewer
calories were consumed regardless if they made an effort to count them
or not. Calories can be forgotten if using a loss method which doesn't
count them. What ever your present food intake reduce it by 1/3 and you
will lose weight. In the meantime of course calories are reduced too
but not counted.