I just recently became a vegetarian. I really want to keep up the
vegetarian diet and lifestyle. I am wondering how those vegetarians and
vegans stick with their eating habits. What tools do you use to keep
eating vegan? Did you notice any change in your body? Positive or
negative or mental state changes?

Please reply with any helpful insight you could provide.
Thanks, lia

Lia Clifton wrote:
> I just recently became a vegetarian. I really want to keep up the
> vegetarian diet and lifestyle. I am wondering how those vegetarians and
> vegans stick with their eating habits. What tools do you use to keep
> eating vegan? Did you notice any change in your body? Positive or
> negative or mental state changes?
>
> Please reply with any helpful insight you could provide.
> Thanks, lia

This is the best vegan starter kit I have found ( the information
applies to vegetarians too ):

http://www.veganoutreach.org/starterpack/

After that you might want to check out this site for being health while
being a vegan ( again, same info applies to vegetarians ):

http://www.veganhealth.org

Lastly:
Be A Healthy Vegan Or Vegetarian
http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdo...ealthyVeg.html


Steve




--
Be A Healthy Vegan Or Vegetarian
http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdo...ealthyVeg.html

Steve's Home Page
http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdom/

"The great American thought trap: It is not real
unless it can be seen on television or bought in a
shopping mall"

Lia Clifton wrote:
> I just recently became a vegetarian. I really want to keep up the
> vegetarian diet and lifestyle. I am wondering how those vegetarians and
> vegans stick with their eating habits. What tools do you use to keep
> eating vegan? Did you notice any change in your body? Positive or
> negative or mental state changes?
>
> Please reply with any helpful insight you could provide.
> Thanks, lia

This is the best vegan starter kit I have found ( the information
applies to vegetarians too ):

http://www.veganoutreach.org/starterpack/

After that you might want to check out this site for being health while
being a vegan ( again, same info applies to vegetarians ):

http://www.veganhealth.org

Lastly:
Be A Healthy Vegan Or Vegetarian
http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdo...ealthyVeg.html


Steve




--
Be A Healthy Vegan Or Vegetarian
http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdo...ealthyVeg.html

Steve's Home Page
http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdom/

"The great American thought trap: It is not real
unless it can be seen on television or bought in a
shopping mall"

"Lia Clifton" > wrote in message
...
> I just recently became a vegetarian. I really want to keep up the
> vegetarian diet and lifestyle. I am wondering how those vegetarians and
> vegans stick with their eating habits. What tools do you use to keep
> eating vegan? Did you notice any change in your body? Positive or
> negative or mental state changes?
>
> Please reply with any helpful insight you could provide.
> Thanks, lia

When I ate a vegetarian diet I noticed that I was hungry more often because
the food wasn't as "Bulky" as meat.

I had a really positive mental state change at first, I felt like I could
perceive things better, see more clearly, etc. It didn't last long though.

Make sure you talk to a doctor about how to do it right.

There are a lot more ex-vegetarians than vegetarians. I quit for two main
reasons. One was convenience. I like to be able to go out with my family to
normal restaurants and eat what they're eating. Secondly, I wasn't feeling
all that great anymore on it. The good feelings the diet caused at the
beginning faded out and I felt sluggish.

I didn't follow a doctor's eating plan so that may have been part of the
problem.

I went back on a standard diet and felt much better.

-Rubystars

"Lia Clifton" > wrote in message
...
> I just recently became a vegetarian. I really want to keep up the
> vegetarian diet and lifestyle. I am wondering how those vegetarians and
> vegans stick with their eating habits. What tools do you use to keep
> eating vegan? Did you notice any change in your body? Positive or
> negative or mental state changes?
>
> Please reply with any helpful insight you could provide.
> Thanks, lia

When I ate a vegetarian diet I noticed that I was hungry more often because
the food wasn't as "Bulky" as meat.

I had a really positive mental state change at first, I felt like I could
perceive things better, see more clearly, etc. It didn't last long though.

Make sure you talk to a doctor about how to do it right.

There are a lot more ex-vegetarians than vegetarians. I quit for two main
reasons. One was convenience. I like to be able to go out with my family to
normal restaurants and eat what they're eating. Secondly, I wasn't feeling
all that great anymore on it. The good feelings the diet caused at the
beginning faded out and I felt sluggish.

I didn't follow a doctor's eating plan so that may have been part of the
problem.

I went back on a standard diet and felt much better.

-Rubystars

In article >,
"Rubystars" > wrote:

> "Lia Clifton" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I just recently became a vegetarian. I really want to keep up the
> > vegetarian diet and lifestyle. I am wondering how those vegetarians and
> > vegans stick with their eating habits. What tools do you use to keep
> > eating vegan? Did you notice any change in your body? Positive or
> > negative or mental state changes?
> >
> > Please reply with any helpful insight you could provide.
> > Thanks, lia
>
> When I ate a vegetarian diet I noticed that I was hungry more often because
> the food wasn't as "Bulky" as meat.
>
> I had a really positive mental state change at first, I felt like I could
> perceive things better, see more clearly, etc. It didn't last long though.
>
> Make sure you talk to a doctor about how to do it right.
>
> There are a lot more ex-vegetarians than vegetarians. I quit for two main
> reasons. One was convenience. I like to be able to go out with my family to
> normal restaurants and eat what they're eating. Secondly, I wasn't feeling
> all that great anymore on it. The good feelings the diet caused at the
> beginning faded out and I felt sluggish.
>
> I didn't follow a doctor's eating plan so that may have been part of the
> problem.
>
> I went back on a standard diet and felt much better.
>
> -Rubystars

Thanks for your response. I was wondering what you attribute the
positive mental state change early on in the eating change to? How long
after you began eating a vegetarian diet did your mental and physical
(sluggish) feeling change? a week? two weeks? days?

I really understand where you are coming from with the convenience of
ordering out. It is hard to find vegetarian meals at a variety of
restaurants that are actually really good.

Did you try to become a vegetarian on your own? or did you do try with
a friend or family member?

Thanks for the encouragement to see a doctor to get he low down on what
I should be eating to make sure I get the proper portions and nutrients.

Thanks again,
Lia

In article >,
Steve > wrote:

> Lia Clifton wrote:
> > I just recently became a vegetarian. I really want to keep up the
> > vegetarian diet and lifestyle. I am wondering how those vegetarians and
> > vegans stick with their eating habits. What tools do you use to keep
> > eating vegan? Did you notice any change in your body? Positive or
> > negative or mental state changes?
> >
> > Please reply with any helpful insight you could provide.
> > Thanks, lia
>
> This is the best vegan starter kit I have found ( the information
> applies to vegetarians too ):
>
> http://www.veganoutreach.org/starterpack/
>
> After that you might want to check out this site for being health while
> being a vegan ( again, same info applies to vegetarians ):
>
> http://www.veganhealth.org
>
> Lastly:
> Be A Healthy Vegan Or Vegetarian
> http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdo...ealthyVeg.html
>
>
> Steve

Hi Steve,
thanks for your help. I found all of these sites to be extremely
helpful. How long have you been a vegan or vegetarian?
Lia

"student" > wrote in message
<snip>
> Thanks for your response.

You're welcome.

>I was wondering what you attribute the
> positive mental state change early on in the eating change to?

I'm not sure, but I know it didn't last.

> How long
> after you began eating a vegetarian diet did your mental and physical
> (sluggish) feeling change? a week? two weeks? days?

About 2 months.

> I really understand where you are coming from with the convenience of
> ordering out. It is hard to find vegetarian meals at a variety of
> restaurants that are actually really good.

Yeah, there aren't vegetarian options at a lot of restaurants, and if there
are, there's no guarantee they're actually vegetarian.

Examples: "Vegetable soup" on a vegetarian menu with chicken broth,
"Vegetarian food" with gelatin.

Of course, I live in Texas, so your experience may be different depending on
where you live.

> Did you try to become a vegetarian on your own? or did you do try with
> a friend or family member?

I just did it on my own.

> Thanks for the encouragement to see a doctor to get he low down on what
> I should be eating to make sure I get the proper portions and nutrients.

It's very important to do that if you want to succeed. Good luck!

-Rubystars

"student" > wrote in message
<snip>
> Thanks for your response.

You're welcome.

>I was wondering what you attribute the
> positive mental state change early on in the eating change to?

I'm not sure, but I know it didn't last.

> How long
> after you began eating a vegetarian diet did your mental and physical
> (sluggish) feeling change? a week? two weeks? days?

About 2 months.

> I really understand where you are coming from with the convenience of
> ordering out. It is hard to find vegetarian meals at a variety of
> restaurants that are actually really good.

Yeah, there aren't vegetarian options at a lot of restaurants, and if there
are, there's no guarantee they're actually vegetarian.

Examples: "Vegetable soup" on a vegetarian menu with chicken broth,
"Vegetarian food" with gelatin.

Of course, I live in Texas, so your experience may be different depending on
where you live.

> Did you try to become a vegetarian on your own? or did you do try with
> a friend or family member?

I just did it on my own.

> Thanks for the encouragement to see a doctor to get he low down on what
> I should be eating to make sure I get the proper portions and nutrients.

It's very important to do that if you want to succeed. Good luck!

-Rubystars

student > wrote

> > http://www.veganoutreach.org/starterpack/
> > http://www.veganhealth.org
> > http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdo...ealthyVeg.html
> Hi Steve,
> thanks for your help. I found all of these sites to be extremely
> helpful. How long have you been a vegan or vegetarian?

26 years vegetarian, about 14 years vegan.

I'm glad the sites helped.

student > wrote

> > http://www.veganoutreach.org/starterpack/
> > http://www.veganhealth.org
> > http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdo...ealthyVeg.html
> Hi Steve,
> thanks for your help. I found all of these sites to be extremely
> helpful. How long have you been a vegan or vegetarian?

26 years vegetarian, about 14 years vegan.

I'm glad the sites helped.

student > wrote

> > http://www.veganoutreach.org/starterpack/
> > http://www.veganhealth.org
> > http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdo...ealthyVeg.html
> Hi Steve,
> thanks for your help. I found all of these sites to be extremely
> helpful. How long have you been a vegan or vegetarian?

26 years vegetarian, about 14 years vegan.

I'm glad the sites helped.

student > wrote

> > http://www.veganoutreach.org/starterpack/
> > http://www.veganhealth.org
> > http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdo...ealthyVeg.html
> Hi Steve,
> thanks for your help. I found all of these sites to be extremely
> helpful. How long have you been a vegan or vegetarian?

26 years vegetarian, about 14 years vegan.

I'm glad the sites helped.

On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 14:41:14 -0700, Lia Clifton > wrote:

>I just recently became a vegetarian. I really want to keep up the
>vegetarian diet and lifestyle. I am wondering how those vegetarians and
>vegans stick with their eating habits. What tools do you use to keep
>eating vegan? Did you notice any change in your body? Positive or
>negative or mental state changes?
>
>Please reply with any helpful insight you could provide.
>Thanks, lia

· Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use of
wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.
What they try to avoid are products which provide life
(and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
to avoid the following in order to be successful:
__________________________________________________ _______
Tires, Surgical sutures, Matches, Soaps, Photographic film,
Cosmetics, Shaving cream, Paints, Candles, Crayon/Chalk,
Toothpaste, Deodorants, Mouthwash, Paper, Upholstery,
Floor waxes, Glass, Water Filters, Rubber, Fertilizer,
Antifreeze

http://www.aif.org/lvstock.htm
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
__________________________________________________ _______
Ceramics, Insecticides, Insulation, Linoleum, Plastic,
Textiles, Blood factors, Collagen, Heparin, Insulin,
Pancreatin, Thrombin, Vasopressin, Vitamin B-12, Asphalt,
auto and jet lubricants, outboard engine oil, high-performance
greases, brake fluid

http://www.teachfree.com/student/wow_that_cow.htm
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
__________________________________________________ _______
contact-lens care products, glues for paper and cardboard
cartons, bookbinding glue, clarification of wines, Hemostats,
sunscreens and sunblocks, dental floss, hairspray, inks, PVC

http://www.discover.com/aug_01/featcow.html
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
__________________________________________________ _______
Explosives, Solvents, Industrial Oils, Industrial Lubricants,
Stearic Acid, Biodegradable Detergents, Herbicides, Syringes,
Gelatin Capsules, Bandage Strips, Combs and Toothbrushes,
Emery Boards and Cloth, Adhesive Tape, Laminated Wood Products,
Plywood and Paneling, Wallpaper and Wallpaper Paste, Cellophane
Wrap and Tape, Adhesive Tape, Abrasives, Bone Charcoal for High
Grade Steel, Steel Ball Bearings

http://www.sheepusa.org/environment/products.shtml
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
The meat industry provides life for the animals that it
slaughters, and the animals live and die in it as they do
in any other habitat. They also depend on it for their
lives like the animals in any other habitat. If people
consume animal products from animals they think are
raised in decent ways, they will be promoting life for
more such animals in the future.
From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat. From a grass
raised dairy cow people get thousands of servings of dairy
products. Due to the influence of farm machinery, and *icides,
and in the case of rice the flooding and draining of fields,
one serving of soy or rice based product is likely to involve
more animal deaths than hundreds of servings derived from grass
raised cattle. Grass raised cattle products contribute to less
wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and decent lives for
cattle. ·

I appreciate your input on the subject, I didn't mean to offend you if
I did. I do however have a couple questions regarding your response to
my posting. 1) what do you eat? 2) have you ever attempted becoming
a vegan or vegetarian? Do you use any of the products you listed below?
I do agree that vegetarians and vegans do contribute to the deaths of many
animals by purchasing various other products. However when you stated
that "the meat industry provides life for the animals it slaughters and
the animals live and die in it as they do in any other environment" I
must disagree. The animals that are raised for slaughter would not live
such short lives if they were in their "natural" habitat as opposed to
feed lots and slaughter houses. They also would not die under such
horrible circumstances either.

I am exploring vegetarianism in order to feel better physically. I want
to see if eating a non animal diet will in fact have positive health
affects on my
body, both internal and externally.

THanks for your info .
Lia


In article >,
wrote:

> On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 14:41:14 -0700, Lia Clifton > wrote:
>
> >I just recently became a vegetarian. I really want to keep up the
> >vegetarian diet and lifestyle. I am wondering how those vegetarians and
> >vegans stick with their eating habits. What tools do you use to keep
> >eating vegan? Did you notice any change in your body? Positive or
> >negative or mental state changes?
> >
> >Please reply with any helpful insight you could provide.
> >Thanks, lia
>
> ? Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use of
> wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
> buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.
> What they try to avoid are products which provide life
> (and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
> to avoid the following in order to be successful:
> __________________________________________________ _______
> Tires, Surgical sutures, Matches, Soaps, Photographic film,
> Cosmetics, Shaving cream, Paints, Candles, Crayon/Chalk,
> Toothpaste, Deodorants, Mouthwash, Paper, Upholstery,
> Floor waxes, Glass, Water Filters, Rubber, Fertilizer,
> Antifreeze
>
> http://www.aif.org/lvstock.htm
> ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????
> __________________________________________________ _______
> Ceramics, Insecticides, Insulation, Linoleum, Plastic,
> Textiles, Blood factors, Collagen, Heparin, Insulin,
> Pancreatin, Thrombin, Vasopressin, Vitamin B-12, Asphalt,
> auto and jet lubricants, outboard engine oil, high-performance
> greases, brake fluid
>
> http://www.teachfree.com/student/wow_that_cow.htm
> ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????
> __________________________________________________ _______
> contact-lens care products, glues for paper and cardboard
> cartons, bookbinding glue, clarification of wines, Hemostats,
> sunscreens and sunblocks, dental floss, hairspray, inks, PVC
>
> http://www.discover.com/aug_01/featcow.html
> ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????
> __________________________________________________ _______
> Explosives, Solvents, Industrial Oils, Industrial Lubricants,
> Stearic Acid, Biodegradable Detergents, Herbicides, Syringes,
> Gelatin Capsules, Bandage Strips, Combs and Toothbrushes,
> Emery Boards and Cloth, Adhesive Tape, Laminated Wood Products,
> Plywood and Paneling, Wallpaper and Wallpaper Paste, Cellophane
> Wrap and Tape, Adhesive Tape, Abrasives, Bone Charcoal for High
> Grade Steel, Steel Ball Bearings
>
> http://www.sheepusa.org/environment/products.shtml
> ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????
> The meat industry provides life for the animals that it
> slaughters, and the animals live and die in it as they do
> in any other habitat. They also depend on it for their
> lives like the animals in any other habitat. If people
> consume animal products from animals they think are
> raised in decent ways, they will be promoting life for
> more such animals in the future.
> From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
> steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
> get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat. From a grass
> raised dairy cow people get thousands of servings of dairy
> products. Due to the influence of farm machinery, and *icides,
> and in the case of rice the flooding and draining of fields,
> one serving of soy or rice based product is likely to involve
> more animal deaths than hundreds of servings derived from grass
> raised cattle. Grass raised cattle products contribute to less
> wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and decent lives for
> cattle. ?

I appreciate your input on the subject, I didn't mean to offend you if
I did. I do however have a couple questions regarding your response to
my posting. 1) what do you eat? 2) have you ever attempted becoming
a vegan or vegetarian? Do you use any of the products you listed below?
I do agree that vegetarians and vegans do contribute to the deaths of many
animals by purchasing various other products. However when you stated
that "the meat industry provides life for the animals it slaughters and
the animals live and die in it as they do in any other environment" I
must disagree. The animals that are raised for slaughter would not live
such short lives if they were in their "natural" habitat as opposed to
feed lots and slaughter houses. They also would not die under such
horrible circumstances either.

I am exploring vegetarianism in order to feel better physically. I want
to see if eating a non animal diet will in fact have positive health
affects on my
body, both internal and externally.

THanks for your info .
Lia


In article >,
wrote:

> On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 14:41:14 -0700, Lia Clifton > wrote:
>
> >I just recently became a vegetarian. I really want to keep up the
> >vegetarian diet and lifestyle. I am wondering how those vegetarians and
> >vegans stick with their eating habits. What tools do you use to keep
> >eating vegan? Did you notice any change in your body? Positive or
> >negative or mental state changes?
> >
> >Please reply with any helpful insight you could provide.
> >Thanks, lia
>
> ? Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use of
> wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
> buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.
> What they try to avoid are products which provide life
> (and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
> to avoid the following in order to be successful:
> __________________________________________________ _______
> Tires, Surgical sutures, Matches, Soaps, Photographic film,
> Cosmetics, Shaving cream, Paints, Candles, Crayon/Chalk,
> Toothpaste, Deodorants, Mouthwash, Paper, Upholstery,
> Floor waxes, Glass, Water Filters, Rubber, Fertilizer,
> Antifreeze
>
> http://www.aif.org/lvstock.htm
> ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????
> __________________________________________________ _______
> Ceramics, Insecticides, Insulation, Linoleum, Plastic,
> Textiles, Blood factors, Collagen, Heparin, Insulin,
> Pancreatin, Thrombin, Vasopressin, Vitamin B-12, Asphalt,
> auto and jet lubricants, outboard engine oil, high-performance
> greases, brake fluid
>
> http://www.teachfree.com/student/wow_that_cow.htm
> ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????
> __________________________________________________ _______
> contact-lens care products, glues for paper and cardboard
> cartons, bookbinding glue, clarification of wines, Hemostats,
> sunscreens and sunblocks, dental floss, hairspray, inks, PVC
>
> http://www.discover.com/aug_01/featcow.html
> ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????
> __________________________________________________ _______
> Explosives, Solvents, Industrial Oils, Industrial Lubricants,
> Stearic Acid, Biodegradable Detergents, Herbicides, Syringes,
> Gelatin Capsules, Bandage Strips, Combs and Toothbrushes,
> Emery Boards and Cloth, Adhesive Tape, Laminated Wood Products,
> Plywood and Paneling, Wallpaper and Wallpaper Paste, Cellophane
> Wrap and Tape, Adhesive Tape, Abrasives, Bone Charcoal for High
> Grade Steel, Steel Ball Bearings
>
> http://www.sheepusa.org/environment/products.shtml
> ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????
> The meat industry provides life for the animals that it
> slaughters, and the animals live and die in it as they do
> in any other habitat. They also depend on it for their
> lives like the animals in any other habitat. If people
> consume animal products from animals they think are
> raised in decent ways, they will be promoting life for
> more such animals in the future.
> From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
> steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
> get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat. From a grass
> raised dairy cow people get thousands of servings of dairy
> products. Due to the influence of farm machinery, and *icides,
> and in the case of rice the flooding and draining of fields,
> one serving of soy or rice based product is likely to involve
> more animal deaths than hundreds of servings derived from grass
> raised cattle. Grass raised cattle products contribute to less
> wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and decent lives for
> cattle. ?

"student" > wrote in message
...
>
> I appreciate your input on the subject, I didn't mean to offend you if
> I did. I do however have a couple questions regarding your response to
> my posting. 1) what do you eat? 2) have you ever attempted becoming
> a vegan or vegetarian? Do you use any of the products you listed below?
> I do agree that vegetarians and vegans do contribute to the deaths of many
> animals by purchasing various other products. However when you stated
> that "the meat industry provides life for the animals it slaughters and
> the animals live and die in it as they do in any other environment" I
> must disagree. The animals that are raised for slaughter would not live
> such short lives if they were in their "natural" habitat as opposed to
> feed lots and slaughter houses. They also would not die under such
> horrible circumstances either.
======================
ROTFLMAO What a hoot. Tell us how you think having your throat slit after
being knocked out is more 'horrible' than being eaten alive? Or by being
sliced, diced, shredded, dis-membered or poisoned by farm machines. Animals
killed for the production of veggies die from far more brutal, inhumane
deaths than any slaughterhouse animal does. Try checking out the survival
rate of wild animals. Many do not live anywhere near to maturity. Almost
all meat animals do.


>
> I am exploring vegetarianism in order to feel better physically. I want
> to see if eating a non animal diet will in fact have positive health
> affects on my
> body, both internal and externally.
>
> THanks for your info .
> Lia
>
>
> In article >,
> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 14:41:14 -0700, Lia Clifton >
wrote:
> >
> > >I just recently became a vegetarian. I really want to keep up the
> > >vegetarian diet and lifestyle. I am wondering how those vegetarians
and
> > >vegans stick with their eating habits. What tools do you use to keep
> > >eating vegan? Did you notice any change in your body? Positive or
> > >negative or mental state changes?
> > >
> > >Please reply with any helpful insight you could provide.
> > >Thanks, lia
> >
> > ? Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use of
> > wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
> > buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.
> > What they try to avoid are products which provide life
> > (and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
> > to avoid the following in order to be successful:
> > __________________________________________________ _______
> > Tires, Surgical sutures, Matches, Soaps, Photographic film,
> > Cosmetics, Shaving cream, Paints, Candles, Crayon/Chalk,
> > Toothpaste, Deodorants, Mouthwash, Paper, Upholstery,
> > Floor waxes, Glass, Water Filters, Rubber, Fertilizer,
> > Antifreeze
> >
> > http://www.aif.org/lvstock.htm
> > ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????
> > __________________________________________________ _______
> > Ceramics, Insecticides, Insulation, Linoleum, Plastic,
> > Textiles, Blood factors, Collagen, Heparin, Insulin,
> > Pancreatin, Thrombin, Vasopressin, Vitamin B-12, Asphalt,
> > auto and jet lubricants, outboard engine oil, high-performance
> > greases, brake fluid
> >
> > http://www.teachfree.com/student/wow_that_cow.htm
> > ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????
> > __________________________________________________ _______
> > contact-lens care products, glues for paper and cardboard
> > cartons, bookbinding glue, clarification of wines, Hemostats,
> > sunscreens and sunblocks, dental floss, hairspray, inks, PVC
> >
> > http://www.discover.com/aug_01/featcow.html
> > ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????
> > __________________________________________________ _______
> > Explosives, Solvents, Industrial Oils, Industrial Lubricants,
> > Stearic Acid, Biodegradable Detergents, Herbicides, Syringes,
> > Gelatin Capsules, Bandage Strips, Combs and Toothbrushes,
> > Emery Boards and Cloth, Adhesive Tape, Laminated Wood Products,
> > Plywood and Paneling, Wallpaper and Wallpaper Paste, Cellophane
> > Wrap and Tape, Adhesive Tape, Abrasives, Bone Charcoal for High
> > Grade Steel, Steel Ball Bearings
> >
> > http://www.sheepusa.org/environment/products.shtml
> > ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????
> > The meat industry provides life for the animals that it
> > slaughters, and the animals live and die in it as they do
> > in any other habitat. They also depend on it for their
> > lives like the animals in any other habitat. If people
> > consume animal products from animals they think are
> > raised in decent ways, they will be promoting life for
> > more such animals in the future.
> > From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
> > steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
> > get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat. From a grass
> > raised dairy cow people get thousands of servings of dairy
> > products. Due to the influence of farm machinery, and *icides,
> > and in the case of rice the flooding and draining of fields,
> > one serving of soy or rice based product is likely to involve
> > more animal deaths than hundreds of servings derived from grass
> > raised cattle. Grass raised cattle products contribute to less
> > wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and decent lives for
> > cattle. ?

"student" > wrote in message
...
>
> I appreciate your input on the subject, I didn't mean to offend you if
> I did. I do however have a couple questions regarding your response to
> my posting. 1) what do you eat? 2) have you ever attempted becoming
> a vegan or vegetarian? Do you use any of the products you listed below?
> I do agree that vegetarians and vegans do contribute to the deaths of many
> animals by purchasing various other products. However when you stated
> that "the meat industry provides life for the animals it slaughters and
> the animals live and die in it as they do in any other environment" I
> must disagree. The animals that are raised for slaughter would not live
> such short lives if they were in their "natural" habitat as opposed to
> feed lots and slaughter houses. They also would not die under such
> horrible circumstances either.
======================
ROTFLMAO What a hoot. Tell us how you think having your throat slit after
being knocked out is more 'horrible' than being eaten alive? Or by being
sliced, diced, shredded, dis-membered or poisoned by farm machines. Animals
killed for the production of veggies die from far more brutal, inhumane
deaths than any slaughterhouse animal does. Try checking out the survival
rate of wild animals. Many do not live anywhere near to maturity. Almost
all meat animals do.


>
> I am exploring vegetarianism in order to feel better physically. I want
> to see if eating a non animal diet will in fact have positive health
> affects on my
> body, both internal and externally.
>
> THanks for your info .
> Lia
>
>
> In article >,
> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 14:41:14 -0700, Lia Clifton >
wrote:
> >
> > >I just recently became a vegetarian. I really want to keep up the
> > >vegetarian diet and lifestyle. I am wondering how those vegetarians
and
> > >vegans stick with their eating habits. What tools do you use to keep
> > >eating vegan? Did you notice any change in your body? Positive or
> > >negative or mental state changes?
> > >
> > >Please reply with any helpful insight you could provide.
> > >Thanks, lia
> >
> > ? Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use of
> > wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
> > buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.
> > What they try to avoid are products which provide life
> > (and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
> > to avoid the following in order to be successful:
> > __________________________________________________ _______
> > Tires, Surgical sutures, Matches, Soaps, Photographic film,
> > Cosmetics, Shaving cream, Paints, Candles, Crayon/Chalk,
> > Toothpaste, Deodorants, Mouthwash, Paper, Upholstery,
> > Floor waxes, Glass, Water Filters, Rubber, Fertilizer,
> > Antifreeze
> >
> > http://www.aif.org/lvstock.htm
> > ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????
> > __________________________________________________ _______
> > Ceramics, Insecticides, Insulation, Linoleum, Plastic,
> > Textiles, Blood factors, Collagen, Heparin, Insulin,
> > Pancreatin, Thrombin, Vasopressin, Vitamin B-12, Asphalt,
> > auto and jet lubricants, outboard engine oil, high-performance
> > greases, brake fluid
> >
> > http://www.teachfree.com/student/wow_that_cow.htm
> > ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????
> > __________________________________________________ _______
> > contact-lens care products, glues for paper and cardboard
> > cartons, bookbinding glue, clarification of wines, Hemostats,
> > sunscreens and sunblocks, dental floss, hairspray, inks, PVC
> >
> > http://www.discover.com/aug_01/featcow.html
> > ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????
> > __________________________________________________ _______
> > Explosives, Solvents, Industrial Oils, Industrial Lubricants,
> > Stearic Acid, Biodegradable Detergents, Herbicides, Syringes,
> > Gelatin Capsules, Bandage Strips, Combs and Toothbrushes,
> > Emery Boards and Cloth, Adhesive Tape, Laminated Wood Products,
> > Plywood and Paneling, Wallpaper and Wallpaper Paste, Cellophane
> > Wrap and Tape, Adhesive Tape, Abrasives, Bone Charcoal for High
> > Grade Steel, Steel Ball Bearings
> >
> > http://www.sheepusa.org/environment/products.shtml
> > ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????
> > The meat industry provides life for the animals that it
> > slaughters, and the animals live and die in it as they do
> > in any other habitat. They also depend on it for their
> > lives like the animals in any other habitat. If people
> > consume animal products from animals they think are
> > raised in decent ways, they will be promoting life for
> > more such animals in the future.
> > From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
> > steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
> > get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat. From a grass
> > raised dairy cow people get thousands of servings of dairy
> > products. Due to the influence of farm machinery, and *icides,
> > and in the case of rice the flooding and draining of fields,
> > one serving of soy or rice based product is likely to involve
> > more animal deaths than hundreds of servings derived from grass
> > raised cattle. Grass raised cattle products contribute to less
> > wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and decent lives for
> > cattle. ?

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 14:00:30 -0700, student > wrote:

>
>I appreciate your input on the subject, I didn't mean to offend you if
>I did.

Not at all.

>I do however have a couple questions regarding your response to
>my posting. 1) what do you eat?

Pretty much whatever, but mostly chicken and turkey as far as
meat is concerned. Not much pork. No veal.

>2) have you ever attempted becoming
>a vegan or vegetarian?

Never even considered it. If I had to for health reasons I guess
I would. If I was going to do something in relation to animals, I'd
buy products which provide them with decent lives. I buy cage
free eggs, and that does. Broiler chickens and turkeys are in
cage free houses, so I believe the majority of them have decent
lives as well. But they are grain eaters, so eating them does
contribute to wildlife deaths like eating tofu and other grain products.
Grass raised animal products would be best as far as impact on
animals...less deaths per serving than vegetable products, it provides
decent lives for livestock, and better habitat for wildlife.

>Do you use any of the products you listed below?

Lots of them. You?

>I do agree that vegetarians and vegans do contribute to the deaths of many
>animals by purchasing various other products. However when you stated
>that "the meat industry provides life for the animals it slaughters and
>the animals live and die in it as they do in any other environment" I
>must disagree. The animals that are raised for slaughter would not live
>such short lives if they were in their "natural" habitat as opposed to
>feed lots and slaughter houses.

· The meat industry includes habitats in which a small
variety of animals are raised. The animals in those
habitats, as those in any other, are completely dependant
on them to not only sustain their lives, but they also
depend on them to provide the pairing of sperm and egg
that begin their particular lives. Those particular animals will
only live if people continue to raise them for food.

Animals that are born to other groups--such as wild
animals, pets, performing animals, etc.--are completely
different groups of animals. Regardless of how many or few
animals are born to these other groups, the billions of animals
which are raised for food will always be dependant on that
industry, and will only experience life if humans continue to
consume them. ·

>They also would not die under such
>horrible circumstances either.

Because they would never live at all. On that line of
thinking though, many/most wild animals have worse
deaths than animals in slaughterhouses, imo.

>I am exploring vegetarianism in order to feel better physically. I want
>to see if eating a non animal diet will in fact have positive health
>affects on my
>body, both internal and externally.

I hope you find something that helps you out.

>THanks for your info .
>Lia

Glad to share it.

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 14:00:30 -0700, student > wrote:

>
>I appreciate your input on the subject, I didn't mean to offend you if
>I did.

Not at all.

>I do however have a couple questions regarding your response to
>my posting. 1) what do you eat?

Pretty much whatever, but mostly chicken and turkey as far as
meat is concerned. Not much pork. No veal.

>2) have you ever attempted becoming
>a vegan or vegetarian?

Never even considered it. If I had to for health reasons I guess
I would. If I was going to do something in relation to animals, I'd
buy products which provide them with decent lives. I buy cage
free eggs, and that does. Broiler chickens and turkeys are in
cage free houses, so I believe the majority of them have decent
lives as well. But they are grain eaters, so eating them does
contribute to wildlife deaths like eating tofu and other grain products.
Grass raised animal products would be best as far as impact on
animals...less deaths per serving than vegetable products, it provides
decent lives for livestock, and better habitat for wildlife.

>Do you use any of the products you listed below?

Lots of them. You?

>I do agree that vegetarians and vegans do contribute to the deaths of many
>animals by purchasing various other products. However when you stated
>that "the meat industry provides life for the animals it slaughters and
>the animals live and die in it as they do in any other environment" I
>must disagree. The animals that are raised for slaughter would not live
>such short lives if they were in their "natural" habitat as opposed to
>feed lots and slaughter houses.

· The meat industry includes habitats in which a small
variety of animals are raised. The animals in those
habitats, as those in any other, are completely dependant
on them to not only sustain their lives, but they also
depend on them to provide the pairing of sperm and egg
that begin their particular lives. Those particular animals will
only live if people continue to raise them for food.

Animals that are born to other groups--such as wild
animals, pets, performing animals, etc.--are completely
different groups of animals. Regardless of how many or few
animals are born to these other groups, the billions of animals
which are raised for food will always be dependant on that
industry, and will only experience life if humans continue to
consume them. ·

>They also would not die under such
>horrible circumstances either.

Because they would never live at all. On that line of
thinking though, many/most wild animals have worse
deaths than animals in slaughterhouses, imo.

>I am exploring vegetarianism in order to feel better physically. I want
>to see if eating a non animal diet will in fact have positive health
>affects on my
>body, both internal and externally.

I hope you find something that helps you out.

>THanks for your info .
>Lia

Glad to share it.