I found one years ago called Soy-Moo that tasted alot like dairy milk. It
was made from rice milk and soy protein isolates, corn syrup, and other
goodies. It did not have a heavy soybean taste at all. But alas, I can't
find it in stores anymore.

Also, the vegan cheeses rarely taste like cheese. The best tasting one I
tried was made from macadamia nuts and oil, and there was a vegan "Parmesan"
that wasn't too bad. It seems to me what is missing is culturing. When I
was a vegan I actually liked the macaroni and nutritional yeast. It seems
to me that if you found a good non-dairy milk you could easily make
something close to cheese. After all, in my experience, the Indian paneer
is alot like a cross between the blandness of cottage cheese, and the
texture of tofu (it doesn't melt really).

I rarely drink soymilk now days- I eat mostly beans, brocolli, peanuts,
and quorn for protein. I like drink kefir dairy milk once in a while, and
when I tried a vegan diet, I made a kefir milk of sorts from soymilk and
using some yoplait yoghurt as a starter (the vegan yoghurts I found all had
dead culture), and later acidophilus tablets. It wasn't bad but the dairy
version at health food stores tastes better, probably because it also has
yeast in it.

magnulus wrote:

> I found one years ago called Soy-Moo that tasted alot like dairy milk. It
> was made from rice milk and soy protein isolates, corn syrup, and other
> goodies. It did not have a heavy soybean taste at all. But alas, I can't
> find it in stores anymore.

Although I've been vegetarian for many years, I've only recently started
trying non-dairy milk products. Right now I'm really enjoying the
"Silk" line of soy milk, especially their "Very Vanilla." But I don't
actually expect it to taste like dairy milk--I tried it in coffee once,
and, ugh! it was awful. I'm just enjoying it for its own unique taste.
I really don't know if there are any products that are very similar to
dairy milk, but if anyone can suggest any I'd like to give them a try.

> Also, the vegan cheeses rarely taste like cheese.

Cheese has been one of the hardest things for me to give up; I'd REALLY
like to find some good, vegan substitutes...that actually taste and melt
like real cheese.

--

Vegetarian/animal rights products: www.cafepress.com/saproducts/227981
1000 reasons NOT to vote for Bush: www.thousandreasons.org/listB.html
Bush or chimp? See the similarities!: www.bushorchimp.com/pics.html
Dogs hate Shrub, too: www.dogshatebush.com

magnulus wrote:

> I found one years ago called Soy-Moo that tasted alot like dairy milk. It
> was made from rice milk and soy protein isolates, corn syrup, and other
> goodies. It did not have a heavy soybean taste at all. But alas, I can't
> find it in stores anymore.

Although I've been vegetarian for many years, I've only recently started
trying non-dairy milk products. Right now I'm really enjoying the
"Silk" line of soy milk, especially their "Very Vanilla." But I don't
actually expect it to taste like dairy milk--I tried it in coffee once,
and, ugh! it was awful. I'm just enjoying it for its own unique taste.
I really don't know if there are any products that are very similar to
dairy milk, but if anyone can suggest any I'd like to give them a try.

> Also, the vegan cheeses rarely taste like cheese.

Cheese has been one of the hardest things for me to give up; I'd REALLY
like to find some good, vegan substitutes...that actually taste and melt
like real cheese.

--

Vegetarian/animal rights products: www.cafepress.com/saproducts/227981
1000 reasons NOT to vote for Bush: www.thousandreasons.org/listB.html
Bush or chimp? See the similarities!: www.bushorchimp.com/pics.html
Dogs hate Shrub, too: www.dogshatebush.com

LinuxSaves wrote:
> magnulus wrote:
>
>> I found one years ago called Soy-Moo that tasted alot like dairy
>> milk. It
>> was made from rice milk and soy protein isolates, corn syrup, and other
>> goodies. It did not have a heavy soybean taste at all. But alas, I
>> can't
>> find it in stores anymore.
>
>
> Although I've been vegetarian for many years, I've only recently started
> trying non-dairy milk products. Right now I'm really enjoying the
> "Silk" line of soy milk, especially their "Very Vanilla." But I don't
> actually expect it to taste like dairy milk--I tried it in coffee once,
> and, ugh! it was awful. I'm just enjoying it for its own unique taste.
> I really don't know if there are any products that are very similar to
> dairy milk, but if anyone can suggest any I'd like to give them a try.

A good attitude. If you want milk (a taste that I find rather
disgusting, and gave up long before I considered becoming a strict
vegetarian), drink milk.

Don't expect soy or nut or rice milks to taste like dairy milk. They
are not, and I don't see why they should?

>> Also, the vegan cheeses rarely taste like cheese.
>
>
> Cheese has been one of the hardest things for me to give up; I'd REALLY
> like to find some good, vegan substitutes...that actually taste and melt
> like real cheese.
>

Cheese can be painful to give up. Eventually, you just stop missing it.
The rare times that I eat it now, it makes me feel full and heavy, and
risks giving me digestive problems. Nutritional yeast and tofu have
replaced cheese in most respects for me.

But let me tell you, a frite-sauce is no where near the same as a poutine.

-- Blue

>> Cheese has been one of the hardest things for me to give up; I'd
>> REALLY like to find some good, vegan substitutes...that actually taste
>> and melt like real cheese.
>>
>
> Cheese can be painful to give up. Eventually, you just stop missing it.
> The rare times that I eat it now, it makes me feel full and heavy, and
> risks giving me digestive problems. Nutritional yeast and tofu have
> replaced cheese in most respects for me.
>
> But let me tell you, a frite-sauce is no where near the same as a poutine.
>
> -- Blue

if you make the vegan choice for ethical reasons, you are obviously
strong enough to give up things you like. the way i kicked cheese, and
suggest as the way to easily forget about cheese is thus:
remember, cheese is just an extra, a condiment basically. it is truly
just about flavor! now, think about the calves that are born to the
milk cows, and then, you realize that you are still killing animals,
just for taste. if that doesnt help, then, try to remember that it is
basically mold, that turns the milk to cheese.

"Gideon Stargrave" > wrote in message
...
>
>>> Cheese has been one of the hardest things for me to give up; I'd REALLY
>>> like to find some good, vegan substitutes...that actually taste and melt
>>> like real cheese.
>>>
>>
>> Cheese can be painful to give up. Eventually, you just stop missing it.
>> The rare times that I eat it now, it makes me feel full and heavy, and
>> risks giving me digestive problems. Nutritional yeast and tofu have
>> replaced cheese in most respects for me.
>>
>> But let me tell you, a frite-sauce is no where near the same as a
>> poutine.
>>
>> -- Blue
>
> if you make the vegan choice for ethical reasons, you are obviously strong
> enough to give up things you like. the way i kicked cheese, and suggest
> as the way to easily forget about cheese is thus:
> remember, cheese is just an extra, a condiment basically. it is truly
> just about flavor! now, think about the calves that are born to the milk
> cows, and then, you realize that you are still killing animals, just for
> taste. if that doesnt help, then, try to remember that it is basically
> mold, that turns the milk to cheese.
====================
And if that doesn't help, remember the animals that are shredded, sliced,
diced, dis-membered in farm machinery. remember the animals that die from
their guts turning to mush from the poisons used to deliberately kill them
just to keeo you veggies clean and cheap. Remember the animals that die
from having their skin burned, or from violent spasms after being sprayed
with pesticides. Remember the animals that are eaten alive from predators
or that starve to death after you've harvested all the easy food and cover
off the fields. That's after you crops have allowed their numbers to swell
far beyond the normal carry capacity of the area because of the easy food
and cover your crops provide.

So, if you really look, you can find real free-range meats and eggs. It's
a large and growing market. It's getting bigger because real people *do*
care. It's the vegans that are not doing anything to change the way animals
are raised for food. All they have is their hate, and of course their
simple rule for their simple minds, 'eat no meat.' Doens't save animals in
the long run, just replaces the ones that were on their plate with the ones
they leave to suffer, die and rot in the fileds. Quite compassionate of
them, right?

"rick etter" > wrote in message ink.net>...
> "Gideon Stargrave" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >>> Cheese has been one of the hardest things for me to give up; I'd REALLY
> >>> like to find some good, vegan substitutes...that actually taste and melt
> >>> like real cheese.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Cheese can be painful to give up. Eventually, you just stop missing it.
> >> The rare times that I eat it now, it makes me feel full and heavy, and
> >> risks giving me digestive problems. Nutritional yeast and tofu have
> >> replaced cheese in most respects for me.
> >>
> >> But let me tell you, a frite-sauce is no where near the same as a
> >> poutine.
> >>
> >> -- Blue
> >
> > if you make the vegan choice for ethical reasons, you are obviously strong
> > enough to give up things you like. the way i kicked cheese, and suggest
> > as the way to easily forget about cheese is thus:
> > remember, cheese is just an extra, a condiment basically. it is truly
> > just about flavor! now, think about the calves that are born to the milk
> > cows, and then, you realize that you are still killing animals, just for
> > taste. if that doesnt help, then, try to remember that it is basically
> > mold, that turns the milk to cheese.
> ====================
> And if that doesn't help, remember the animals that are shredded, sliced,
> diced, dis-membered in farm machinery. remember the animals that die from
> their guts turning to mush from the poisons used to deliberately kill them
> just to keeo you veggies clean and cheap. Remember the animals that die
> from having their skin burned, or from violent spasms after being sprayed
> with pesticides. Remember the animals that are eaten alive from predators
> or that starve to death after you've harvested all the easy food and cover
> off the fields. That's after you crops have allowed their numbers to swell
> far beyond the normal carry capacity of the area because of the easy food
> and cover your crops provide.




Let's have the photographic evidence etter.

Why won't you provide it Ricky?


> So, if you really look, you can find real free-range meats and eggs. It's
> a large and growing market. It's getting bigger because real people *do*
> care. It's the vegans that are not doing anything to change the way animals
> are raised for food. All they have is their hate, and of course their
> simple rule for their simple minds, 'eat no meat.' Doens't save animals in
> the long run, just replaces the ones that were on their plate with the ones
> they leave to suffer, die and rot in the fileds. Quite compassionate of
> them, right?



So if I don't eat a cow, she'll will suffer, die, and rot in a field?

"rick etter" > wrote in message ink.net>...
> "Gideon Stargrave" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >>> Cheese has been one of the hardest things for me to give up; I'd REALLY
> >>> like to find some good, vegan substitutes...that actually taste and melt
> >>> like real cheese.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Cheese can be painful to give up. Eventually, you just stop missing it.
> >> The rare times that I eat it now, it makes me feel full and heavy, and
> >> risks giving me digestive problems. Nutritional yeast and tofu have
> >> replaced cheese in most respects for me.
> >>
> >> But let me tell you, a frite-sauce is no where near the same as a
> >> poutine.
> >>
> >> -- Blue
> >
> > if you make the vegan choice for ethical reasons, you are obviously strong
> > enough to give up things you like. the way i kicked cheese, and suggest
> > as the way to easily forget about cheese is thus:
> > remember, cheese is just an extra, a condiment basically. it is truly
> > just about flavor! now, think about the calves that are born to the milk
> > cows, and then, you realize that you are still killing animals, just for
> > taste. if that doesnt help, then, try to remember that it is basically
> > mold, that turns the milk to cheese.
> ====================
> And if that doesn't help, remember the animals that are shredded, sliced,
> diced, dis-membered in farm machinery. remember the animals that die from
> their guts turning to mush from the poisons used to deliberately kill them
> just to keeo you veggies clean and cheap. Remember the animals that die
> from having their skin burned, or from violent spasms after being sprayed
> with pesticides. Remember the animals that are eaten alive from predators
> or that starve to death after you've harvested all the easy food and cover
> off the fields. That's after you crops have allowed their numbers to swell
> far beyond the normal carry capacity of the area because of the easy food
> and cover your crops provide.




Let's have the photographic evidence etter.

Why won't you provide it Ricky?


> So, if you really look, you can find real free-range meats and eggs. It's
> a large and growing market. It's getting bigger because real people *do*
> care. It's the vegans that are not doing anything to change the way animals
> are raised for food. All they have is their hate, and of course their
> simple rule for their simple minds, 'eat no meat.' Doens't save animals in
> the long run, just replaces the ones that were on their plate with the ones
> they leave to suffer, die and rot in the fileds. Quite compassionate of
> them, right?



So if I don't eat a cow, she'll will suffer, die, and rot in a field?

"magnulus" > wrote in message
news
> I found one years ago called Soy-Moo that tasted alot like dairy milk.
> It
> was made from rice milk and soy protein isolates, corn syrup, and other
> goodies. It did not have a heavy soybean taste at all. But alas, I can't
> find it in stores anymore.

I like Westsoy Organic Unsweetened Soy Milk
Most of the soy milks are way too sweet for my tastes.

> Also, the vegan cheeses rarely taste like cheese.
>snip for space

Ehhgggh! I find that most of the Vegan Cheeses don't taste like anything
edible. However, that being said. "Vegan Gourmet" Mozzarella Style soy
cheese is very good. The Cheddar Style is not.
Tofutti Better That Cream Cheese is good and they have a new one made
without Hydrogenated fat that is okay. I need to get used to it.
I like nutritional yeast on popcorn but I don't like those yeast cheeses.

"Lifeway" makes a soy kefir that is good if you like kefir and yogurt.

Equal parts of Tahini, Lemon Juice and water makes a nice sauce for veggies.
Tahaini, Miso and water makes a nice 'cheesey" sauce for pasta and or
veggies.

-nancy-

"magnulus" > wrote in message
news
> I found one years ago called Soy-Moo that tasted alot like dairy milk.
> It
> was made from rice milk and soy protein isolates, corn syrup, and other
> goodies. It did not have a heavy soybean taste at all. But alas, I can't
> find it in stores anymore.

I like Westsoy Organic Unsweetened Soy Milk
Most of the soy milks are way too sweet for my tastes.

> Also, the vegan cheeses rarely taste like cheese.
>snip for space

Ehhgggh! I find that most of the Vegan Cheeses don't taste like anything
edible. However, that being said. "Vegan Gourmet" Mozzarella Style soy
cheese is very good. The Cheddar Style is not.
Tofutti Better That Cream Cheese is good and they have a new one made
without Hydrogenated fat that is okay. I need to get used to it.
I like nutritional yeast on popcorn but I don't like those yeast cheeses.

"Lifeway" makes a soy kefir that is good if you like kefir and yogurt.

Equal parts of Tahini, Lemon Juice and water makes a nice sauce for veggies.
Tahaini, Miso and water makes a nice 'cheesey" sauce for pasta and or
veggies.

-nancy-

rick etter wrote:

> And if that doesn't help, remember the animals that are shredded, sliced,
> diced, dis-membered in farm machinery. remember the animals that die from
> their guts turning to mush from the poisons used to deliberately kill them
> just to keeo you veggies clean and cheap. Remember the animals that die
> from having their skin burned, or from violent spasms after being sprayed
> with pesticides. Remember the animals that are eaten alive from predators
> or that starve to death after you've harvested all the easy food and cover
> off the fields. That's after you crops have allowed their numbers to swell
> far beyond the normal carry capacity of the area because of the easy food
> and cover your crops provide.
>
> So, if you really look, you can find real free-range meats and eggs. It's
> a large and growing market. It's getting bigger because real people *do*
> care. It's the vegans that are not doing anything to change the way animals
> are raised for food. All they have is their hate, and of course their
> simple rule for their simple minds, 'eat no meat.' Doens't save animals in
> the long run, just replaces the ones that were on their plate with the ones
> they leave to suffer, die and rot in the fileds. Quite compassionate of
> them, right?

So are you trying to suggest that we give up eating vegetables all
together and try to live on a meat only diet? Good luck surviving on
that diet buddy. And besides....what about the farmers that shoot foxes
that come looking for chickens. Or the poisons that kill predators
looking for farm animals? Or the animals that are eaten alive from
predators or that starve to death after you've removed all easy pickings
farm animals from the fields. Why do you think people only eat organic?

"will law" > wrote in message
news:nZQid.209012$a85.48507@fed1read04...
> rick etter wrote:
>
>> And if that doesn't help, remember the animals that are shredded, sliced,
>> diced, dis-membered in farm machinery. remember the animals that die
>> from their guts turning to mush from the poisons used to deliberately
>> kill them just to keeo you veggies clean and cheap. Remember the
>> animals that die from having their skin burned, or from violent spasms
>> after being sprayed with pesticides. Remember the animals that are
>> eaten alive from predators or that starve to death after you've harvested
>> all the easy food and cover off the fields. That's after you crops have
>> allowed their numbers to swell far beyond the normal carry capacity of
>> the area because of the easy food and cover your crops provide.
>>
>> So, if you really look, you can find real free-range meats and eggs.
>> It's a large and growing market. It's getting bigger because real people
>> *do* care. It's the vegans that are not doing anything to change the way
>> animals are raised for food. All they have is their hate, and of course
>> their simple rule for their simple minds, 'eat no meat.' Doens't save
>> animals in the long run, just replaces the ones that were on their plate
>> with the ones they leave to suffer, die and rot in the fileds. Quite
>> compassionate of them, right?
>
> So are you trying to suggest that we give up eating vegetables all
> together and try to live on a meat only diet?
==================
Nice strawman try. Nowhere do you see me say that.




Good luck surviving on
> that diet buddy.
=================
You can live on meats only better than you can veggies only. Unless of
course you never wash your hands....



And besides....what about the farmers that shoot foxes
> that come looking for chickens.
=====================
How many would that be? Hardly the munbers that are killed to protect, or
to just grow your crops.

Or the poisons that kill predators
> looking for farm animals?
==================
How many would those be? I'll give you a 100,000 coyotes a year out west,
and raise you millions and millions of birds to protect crops.

Or the animals that are eaten alive from
> predators or that starve to death after you've removed all easy pickings
> farm animals from the fields.
=====================
ROTFLMAO What 'easy pickings' animals would those be fool? The animals
that die from predators and starvation are the ones that die after all your
crops are harvested. Try looking into the number of animals that can live
in a farm field. that can be 100s to 1000s *per acre*. It is the crops
that allow for those numbers. The crops provide an unnatural amount of food
and cover for an area, allowing animal numbers to explode. Then, those
crops are harvested. The surrounding cannot support the extra numbers as
those areas will already be at their natural levels. The animals die from
predation due to lack of cover, and starvation due to lack of food for their
numbers. Crop farming is the definition of natural habitat destruction.
Grasslands used for grazing are just what they were naturally.





Why do you think people only eat organic?
======================
So? Organic does not mean cruelty-free, killer. The methods are the same,
and pesticides are still used. Nice try at another strawman, but you've
lost, again, killer.


Now, go have that nice blood-drenched breakfast, killer.

"rick etter" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "will law" > wrote in message
> news:nZQid.209012$a85.48507@fed1read04...
> > rick etter wrote:
8<
>
>
>
>
> Good luck surviving on
> > that diet buddy.
> =================
> You can live on meats only better than you can veggies only. Unless of
> course you never wash your hands....

Nice anecdote Rick, have you got anything other than just-so stories?

> And besides....what about the farmers that shoot foxes
> > that come looking for chickens.
> =====================
> How many would that be? Hardly the munbers that are killed to protect,
or
> to just grow your crops.

Yes, where are those numbers Rick? 1000000 warm blooded sentient animals are
killed per hour for your meat habits, that doesn't include fish, and it
doesn't include all the animals a cow crushes and eats, or a hen pecks up.
How many die when a field of peas is harvested? Prove it is more per calorie
yielded vs meat. If you cannot prove this, you have no case.

> Or the animals that are eaten alive from
> > predators or that starve to death after you've removed all easy pickings
> > farm animals from the fields.
> =====================
> ROTFLMAO What 'easy pickings' animals would those be fool? The animals
> that die from predators and starvation are the ones that die after all
your
> crops are harvested. Try looking into the number of animals that can
live
> in a farm field. that can be 100s to 1000s *per acre*.

Those animals are killed by other meat eaters Rick, not vegans. Anyway, last
time a walked through I field of barley, I didn't see more than a pair of
pheasants. Arable land is not teaming with wildlife. But just how does
collateral damage make it okay to blow out Daisy's brains and steal her
baby?

> that allow for those numbers. The crops provide an unnatural amount of
food
> and cover for an area, allowing animal numbers to explode. Then, those
> crops are harvested. The surrounding cannot support the extra numbers as
> those areas will already be at their natural levels. The animals die
from
> predation due to lack of cover, and starvation due to lack of food for
their
> numbers. Crop farming is the definition of natural habitat destruction.
> Grasslands used for grazing are just what they were naturally.

great story, now provide some credible numbers and sources

> Why do you think people only eat organic?
> ======================
> So? Organic does not mean cruelty-free, killer. The methods are the
same,
> and pesticides are still used. Nice try at another strawman, but you've
> lost, again, killer.

Pesticides are only used on a few organic crops. Vegans are not killers
Rick, the non vegan farmers are - try getting your use of English language
and logic up to scratch.

> Now, go have that nice blood-drenched breakfast, killer.

More of your irrational and obnoxious diatribe. You like a blood drenched
breakfast, a vegan does not. I would prefer a few apples.

John