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Vegan (alt.food.vegan) This newsgroup exists to share ideas and issues of concern among vegans. We are always happy to share our recipes- perhaps especially with omnivores who are simply curious- or even better, accomodating a vegan guest for a meal! |
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Posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan,alt.agnosticism,alt.atheism,sci.skeptic
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On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 20:39:09 -0700, Dutch > wrote:
>Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess wrote: > >> The fact is that humans are natural predators, and eating meat is a >> normal life experience for most people. The problem is that many food >> animals are raised and slaughtered without regard for their comfort >> and pain, which I suspect is the crux of the issue. > >I agree with everything you said, except that animal welfare is not part >of the issue in the debate between dh@ and everyone else. He tries to >make it appear that it is, but that's just one of his smokescreens. That's a blatant lie since I refer to animals who have lives of negative value as well as those of positive value. >The >crux if his position is that users of animals and animal products should >take pride in the fact that those animals "get to experience life" Try presenting some example of me telling people they should take pride in it. You can't meaning that you lied again, which is pretty much what you do. I DO encourage people to give the animals' lives as much or more consideration than their deaths though, which eliminationists hate because and only because doing so works against the elimination objective. >and >conversely vegans ("eliminationists") as he calls them) do not sponsor >animals getting to experience life. · Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use of wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does. What they try to avoid are products which provide life (and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have to avoid the following items containing animal by-products in order to be successful: tires, paper, upholstery, floor waxes, glass, water filters, rubber, fertilizer, antifreeze, ceramics, insecticides, insulation, linoleum, plastic, textiles, blood factors, collagen, heparin, insulin, solvents, biodegradable detergents, herbicides, gelatin capsules, adhesive tape, laminated wood products, plywood, paneling, wallpaper and wallpaper paste, cellophane wrap and tape, abrasives, steel ball bearings The meat industry provides life for the animals that it slaughters, and the animals live and die as a result of it as animals do in other habitats. They also depend on it for their lives as animals do in other habitats. If people consume animal products from animals they think are raised in decent ways, they will be promoting life for more such animals in the future. People who want to contribute to decent lives for livestock with their lifestyle must do it by being conscientious consumers of animal products, because they can not do it by being vegan. From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and draining of fields, one serving of soy or rice based product is likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of servings derived from grass raised animals. Grass raised animal products contribute to fewer wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and better lives for livestock than soy or rice products. · |
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