Hi folks.

I've recently gone vegan and I'm trying to figure out how I should get my
calories. Can someone check my thinking here...

My target weight is about 10 stone, and according to an online BMI
calculator this means I need about 2000 calories per day to maintain that
weight.

The book called The Optimum Nutrition Bilbe says I should get 70% of these
calories from carbohydrates (and 15% from fat and 15% from protein). If
carbohydrates give me 4 calories per gram, that means I need about 350 grams
of carbohydrates per day. Looking at my carbohydrate counter book, it looks
as though vegetables contain maybe one sixth carbohydrate by mass (using
potatoes as an example). So that means that I need to eat about 2.1 kg of
vegetables (or potatoes at least) every day. In fact, it looks to me like
most vegetables are much less than one sixth carbohydrate by mass so I would
need a lot more than 2.1kg if I had a varied diet.

That seems like a heck of a lot of veg to me. I doubt I could eat that much.
So I think my maths must have gone wrong somewhere. Can anyone tell me where
I've gone wrong?

Gary Leighton wrote:
> Hi folks.
>
> I've recently gone vegan

Why?

> and I'm trying to figure out how I should get my
> calories. Can someone check my thinking here...

You need professional counselling from someone who specializes in eating
disorders. A good site to start, if you're not ready to admit you need
counselling, is the following:

www.orthorexia.com

> My target weight is about 10 stone,

How tall are you?

> and according to an online BMI
> calculator this means I need about 2000 calories per day to maintain that
> weight.
>
> The book called The Optimum Nutrition Bilbe says I should get 70% of these
> calories from carbohydrates (and 15% from fat and 15% from protein).

I usually disagree with generalized data from people who write "optimum"
books, but I have a real problem with those ratios. You need more than
15% of calories from fat. Though fats are calorically dense, they're
vital for proper body function, especially in the nervous system
(including your brain); lipids are required for building and maintaining
myelin sheathing of the nerves. At most, you should consume 30% of
calories from fat. That's also a good percentage for protein. That
leaves 40% for carbs. Rather than looking at it as a daily ratio, try
for a weekly ratio. That means some days you can eat a little more
protein and less carbs, some days a little more fat, to give you a
little fudge factor each day.

> If
> carbohydrates give me 4 calories per gram, that means I need about 350 grams
> of carbohydrates per day. Looking at my carbohydrate counter book, it looks
> as though vegetables contain maybe one sixth carbohydrate by mass (using
> potatoes as an example). So that means that I need to eat about 2.1 kg of
> vegetables (or potatoes at least) every day. In fact, it looks to me like
> most vegetables are much less than one sixth carbohydrate by mass so I would
> need a lot more than 2.1kg if I had a varied diet.

Sounds about right.

> That seems like a heck of a lot of veg to me.

It is. You should be eating more than vegetables. Include lots of whole
grains and legumes as well. Also, if you're truly interested in "Optimum
Nutrition," meat does fit the bill quite well -- especially lean cuts.

> I doubt I could eat that much.

Your body wasn't meant to be fueled only by produce. We evolved to
consume a varied diet.

> So I think my maths must have gone wrong somewhere.

No, that's what you'll have to do if you want to continue your eating
disorder.

> Can anyone tell me where I've gone wrong?

Sure. You're trying to fit a peculiar diet to your body's true needs.
It's not as easy -- nor as wise -- as vegan activists say it is.

"Gary Leighton" > wrote in message
...
> Hi folks.
>
> I've recently gone vegan and I'm trying to figure out how I should get my
> calories. Can someone check my thinking here...
>
> My target weight is about 10 stone, and according to an online BMI
> calculator this means I need about 2000 calories per day to maintain that
> weight.

2000kcal is a reasonable objective - our bodies tend to maintain energy
balance homeostatically, so there is no need to count calories, it is more a
question of getting the food choices and quantity about right (Stephen Walsh
has a great book on doing cooked Vegan diets well)

> The book called The Optimum Nutrition Bilbe says I should get 70% of these
> calories from carbohydrates (and 15% from fat and 15% from protein).

Not a bad plan, although I go more for the 80/10/10 idea.

> carbohydrates give me 4 calories per gram, that means I need about 350
grams
> of carbohydrates per day. Looking at my carbohydrate counter book, it
looks
> as though vegetables contain maybe one sixth carbohydrate by mass (using
> potatoes as an example). So that means that I need to eat about 2.1 kg of
> vegetables (or potatoes at least) every day.

Your observation is correct. Leaf/root vegetable matter is generally not a
complete food for humans as it is energy deficient. Most vegans choose to
obtain much of their calorie intake with starchy grain foods, raw foodists
like me get higher calorie density from fruit as we have found this
healthier than starch foods.

> In fact, it looks to me like
> most vegetables are much less than one sixth carbohydrate by mass so I
would
> need a lot more than 2.1kg if I had a varied diet.

This is actually not a bad objective, around 2kg of food daily, in fact
higher is more realistic. For many people it would be a dream to be able to
eat that much each day and not get fat and unhealthy, yet a well planned
vegan diet can easily offer this.

> That seems like a heck of a lot of veg to me. I doubt I could eat that
much.

To eat 2kg of tough vegetable matter is a little excessive for humans,
however 2kg of fruit daily is easily attainable. A few portions of grains is
also achievable.

> So I think my maths must have gone wrong somewhere. Can anyone tell me
where
> I've gone wrong?

Limiting your choice of plant intake to low calorie plant foods.

John

John Coleman wrote:
> "Gary Leighton" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Hi folks.
>>
>>I've recently gone vegan and I'm trying to figure out how I should get my
>>calories. Can someone check my thinking here...
>>
>>My target weight is about 10 stone, and according to an online BMI
>>calculator this means I need about 2000 calories per day to maintain that
>>weight.
>
> 2000kcal is a reasonable objective - our bodies tend to maintain energy
> balance homeostatically,

You've no idea what you just wrote.

> so there is no need to count calories,

Bullshit.

> it is more a
> question of getting the food choices and quantity about right

Which is... ensuring one gets the right amount of calories. You twit.

> (Stephen Walsh has a great book on doing cooked Vegan diets well)

Doing? *Doing*? One *eats* food. One doesn't *do* food, unless one is a
pervert.

>>The book called The Optimum Nutrition Bilbe says I should get 70% of these
>>calories from carbohydrates (and 15% from fat and 15% from protein).
>
> Not a bad plan,

Very bad plan.

> although I go more for the 80/10/10 idea.

Because you're an orthorexic boob.

>>carbohydrates give me 4 calories per gram, that means I need about 350
>>grams of carbohydrates per day. Looking at my carbohydrate counter book, it
>>looks as though vegetables contain maybe one sixth carbohydrate by mass (using
>>potatoes as an example). So that means that I need to eat about 2.1 kg of
>>vegetables (or potatoes at least) every day.
>
> Your observation is correct. Leaf/root vegetable matter is generally not a
> complete food for humans as it is energy deficient.

But meat is, isn't it.

> Most vegans choose to
> obtain much of their calorie intake with starchy grain foods, raw foodists

You mean raw FADDISTS.

> like me get higher calorie density from fruit as we have found this
> healthier than starch foods.

Found through anecdote, not science.

>>In fact, it looks to me like
>>most vegetables are much less than one sixth carbohydrate by mass so I
>>would need a lot more than 2.1kg if I had a varied diet.
>
> This is actually not a bad objective, around 2kg of food daily, in fact
> higher is more realistic.

Not if one has a life, a job, and other responsibilities.

> For many people it would be a dream to be able to
> eat that much each day and not get fat and unhealthy, yet a well planned
> vegan diet can easily offer this.

Your diet isn't well-planned. It's the extreme of the extreme.

>>That seems like a heck of a lot of veg to me. I doubt I could eat that
>>much.
>
> To eat 2kg of tough vegetable matter is a little excessive for humans,
> however 2kg of fruit daily is easily attainable. A few portions of grains is
> also achievable.

So are nuts, which are even more calorically dense because of their fat
content. Oh wait a second, you shoot for only 10% from fat. Nix your
nuts and your brain as well. Looks like you've already nixed both.

>>So I think my maths must have gone wrong somewhere. Can anyone tell me
>>where I've gone wrong?
>
> Limiting your choice of plant intake to low calorie plant foods.

No, limiting your diet on the basis of pseudoscience and fringe
political activism.

Gary Leighton wrote:
> That seems like a heck of a lot of veg to me. I doubt I could eat that much.
> So I think my maths must have gone wrong somewhere. Can anyone tell me where
> I've gone wrong?

You're math is fine, those formulas and charts have very little to do
with an individuals reality for a variety of reasons.

As far as nutrients go read this article at Vegan Health:
http://www.veganhealth.org/shv/

You need to figure out your optimum amount of calories on your own.

Many doctors and gyms have a device that looks and works similar to a
breatylizer that can tell you how many calories you would consume in a
day if you did nothing but sit in a chair. I had it done a few years
ago. It takes 15min and about $50.

You can also use the cheaper, lower tech version. Find a reliable
scale, a pocket notebook, a pen, and this site:
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

Weigh yourself once a week. In between weighings write down what you
eat everyday and total the calories you consumed everyday. If you do
this a few times you will get an idea of how many calories you need to
maintain your weight.

FWIW... a pound is 3500 calories. If you created a deficit of 250
calories a day.......less then the amount many people drink in sodas and
juices.........you will lose about 26 pounds over a year.

A mountain of studies have shown that people who lose no more then 1
pound a week have the best chance of keeping the weight off.

HTH

Steve

--
Be A Healthy Vegan Or Vegetarian
http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdo...ealthyVeg.html

Steve's Home Page
http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdom/

"The great American thought trap: It is not real
unless it can be seen on television or bought in a
shopping mall"

"Gary Leighton" > wrote in message
...

> My target weight is about 10 stone, ..
Sez who?? Are not 'target weights' determined by averages over severely
obese populations??
Since you are transitioning to veg*n diet, I assume you want to lose the
excess weight inevitably collected on cooked, animal-centric, cultural
diets. Abandoning the excessive pro and fat of an animal-centric diet
generally results in -some- weight loss. However, a cooked-glop veg*n diet
will also cause consumption of excesses, too, from the concentrated pro
(beans, legumes, nuts/seeds, ...) and concentrated starch (grains, roots,
....) inherent in those diets.
Our real ideal weight, as determined by Nature, will be realized -only-
when one returns to our species' natural, uncooked diet: mostly fruits,
leaves, and few nuts. You might think of the chimp's diet as a guide.
http://ecologos.org/pix/Health/chimpdiet.xls

> ... and according to an online BMI calculator ...
BMI, averages over severely obese populations, is a false metric that
means nothing and is not related to health.
http://ecologos.org/bmi.htm

> ... means I need about 2000 calories per day to maintain ...
The physical entity, calorie, as used in contemporary nutribabble is
false. Forget them.
http://ecologos.org/pcf.htm

> ... says I should get 70% of these calories from carbohydrates (and 15%
> from fat and 15% from protein).
The "percent calories as xxx" concept is also totally fallacious.
http://ecologos.org/pcf.htm

> Looking at my carbohydrate counter book, ...
Better yet, use Jerry Story's free nutritional database pgm:
http://home.edmc.net/%7Ejstory/DMAK.ZIP Windoze
http://home.edmc.net/%7Ejstory/dmak.tar.gz Linux

> as though vegetables contain maybe one sixth carbohydrate by mass (using
> potatoes as an example).
Potatoes are really not a 'vegetable', i.e. vegetation, they are tubers
used
for storage of nutrients for the host plant, so they contain concentrated
starches which probably should be avoided in the long run if one is
interested in optimum health. Also, they must be cooked to be eaten, and
cooking breaks
open the cell walls making ~10 times as much nutrients available than if the
"food" were eaten raw. This is the reason for the obesity commonly
associated with starch-centric diets. Chewing is highly inefficient at
breaking open tough cell walls.

> So I think my maths must have gone wrong somewhere. Can anyone tell me
> where I've gone wrong?
Believing the false concepts built around calories, BMI, and 'target
weights' as propagated in contemporary nutribabble??

Laurie

"Gary Leighton" > wrote in message
...
> Hi folks.
>
> I've recently gone vegan and I'm trying to figure out how I should get my
> calories. Can someone check my thinking here...
>
> My target weight is about 10 stone, and according to an online BMI
> calculator this means I need about 2000 calories per day to maintain that
> weight.

2000kcal is a reasonable objective - our bodies tend to maintain energy
balance homeostatically, so there is no need to count calories, it is more a
question of getting the food choices and quantity about right (Stephen Walsh
has a great book on doing cooked Vegan diets well)

> The book called The Optimum Nutrition Bilbe says I should get 70% of these
> calories from carbohydrates (and 15% from fat and 15% from protein).

Not a bad plan, although I go more for the 80/10/10 idea.

> carbohydrates give me 4 calories per gram, that means I need about 350
grams
> of carbohydrates per day. Looking at my carbohydrate counter book, it
looks
> as though vegetables contain maybe one sixth carbohydrate by mass (using
> potatoes as an example). So that means that I need to eat about 2.1 kg of
> vegetables (or potatoes at least) every day.

Your observation is correct. Leaf/root vegetable matter is generally not a
complete food for humans as it is energy deficient. Most vegans choose to
obtain much of their calorie intake with starchy grain foods, raw foodists
like me get higher calorie density from fruit as we have found this
healthier than starch foods.

> In fact, it looks to me like
> most vegetables are much less than one sixth carbohydrate by mass so I
would
> need a lot more than 2.1kg if I had a varied diet.

This is actually not a bad objective, around 2kg of food daily, in fact
higher is more realistic. For many people it would be a dream to be able to
eat that much each day and not get fat and unhealthy, yet a well planned
vegan diet can easily offer this.

> That seems like a heck of a lot of veg to me. I doubt I could eat that
much.

To eat 2kg of tough vegetable matter is a little excessive for humans,
however 2kg of fruit daily is easily attainable. A few portions of grains is
also achievable.

> So I think my maths must have gone wrong somewhere. Can anyone tell me
where
> I've gone wrong?

Limiting your choice of plant intake to low calorie plant foods.

John