has anyone here tried going raw, as in the raw food diet?

diane wrote:
> has anyone here tried going raw, as in the raw food diet?


I did when I was 14 back in the 80s. I followed all the rules and my
health was not the better for it.

If you are thinking about it you might find these articles interesting:

This person has no professional medical credentials I know of
(neither will the cranks who will not like what he has to say), but what
he has to say is in every introductory biochemistry book:
http://www.fredericpatenaude.com/enzymes.html


This article is by Jack Norris a vegan Registered Dietician, and an
animal rights activist who co-runs vegan outreach:
http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/cooking


Dr. Michael Greger a vegan M.D. who does a lot of lecturing and research
on nutrition. It is from his free monthly nutrition e-mail news letter
( also readable on veganmd.com):

http://www.drgreger.org/november2003.html

( search the page for the string "G. Raw versus Cooked: Which is
MoreNatural?")


HTH

Steve

Be A Healthy Vegan Or Vegetarian
http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdo...ealthyVeg.html

Steve's Home Page
http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdom/

"The great American thought trap: It is not real
unless it can be seen on television or bought in a
shopping mall"

Steve wrote:
> diane wrote:
> > has anyone here tried going raw, as in the raw food diet?
>
>
> I did when I was 14 back in the 80s. I followed all the rules and my
> health was not the better for it.
>
> If you are thinking about it you might find these articles interesting:
>
> This person has no professional medical credentials I know of
> (neither will the cranks who will not like what he has to say), but what
> he has to say is in every introductory biochemistry book:
> http://www.fredericpatenaude.com/enzymes.html
>
>
> This article is by Jack Norris a vegan Registered Dietician, and an
> animal rights activist who co-runs vegan outreach:
> http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/cooking
>
>
> Dr. Michael Greger a vegan M.D. who does a lot of lecturing and research
> on nutrition. It is from his free monthly nutrition e-mail news letter
> ( also readable on veganmd.com):
>
> http://www.drgreger.org/november2003.html
>
> ( search the page for the string "G. Raw versus Cooked: Which is
> MoreNatural?")
>
>
> HTH
>
> Steve
>


Thanks for the reading Steve - interesting.

I guess the issue is what to cook, and how much.

For example, grains and tubers in some cases need to be cooked, and are
important staples. For infants cooking makes foods accessible that
otherwise would be too difficult to chew.

However, most people go WAY overboard. What is the point of "toast"?
Why heat leftovers or soup from a can? What's the point of "grilled
cheese" - it is simply tradition and has no healthful purpose.

Cheers - shevek

----- Original Message -----
From: "usual suspect" >
Newsgroups: alt.health,alt.food,alt.food.vegan
Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 8:53 AM
Subject: exercise does not make one lose weight.

us>>> Without exercise, any attempt to lose weight will be futile.
>> http://www.ecologos.org/ex.htm
>
> Your website is filled with strawmen.
Yet, you have never been able to refute anything I say, here or there.
Stupid insults merely identify you for who you are.

> So, too, is your editing of my post down to that one line.
It was a definitive statement that is simply dead WRONG.

> I suggested exercise is beneficial for weight MANAGEMENT.
"Without exercise, any attempt to lose weight will be futile." is NOT a
suggestion; it is a false statement standing tall on its own lack of merit.

> The heart is muscle. Muscle responds to exercise. Food only
> serves as fuel.
WRONG, again. Food supplies energy, not "fuel" - we are not gasoline
engines, AND it supplies the chemicals from which our bodies are made.
Food supplies BOTH mass and energy, not just energy AS YOU STATED.

> Exercise increases the metabolic rate, ...
What is the mechanism?? You will not answer.

> ... causing people to burn calories ...
WRONG again. Calories are a unit of heat; they can NOT be "burned"!
This is grade school science that you are flunking.

> Your example of running 8.1 hours at 5.3 mph is a dramatic exaggeration
WRONG again; it is a simple calculation relating the amount of exercise
equivalent to a pound of "fat". It is simple grade school arithmetic, so
you now flunk arithmetic too!

> (then again, you're a drama queen so it's to be expected).
You are only insulting yourself by this juvenile behavior, or is that
concept too difficult for you to understand, too??

> You couldn't have been much of an engineer, Larry, with your tenuous grasp
> of the scientific method.
Yet, beyond insults, you can not refute anything I say with facts and
logic.

Laurie

"diane" > wrote in message
...
> has anyone here tried going raw, as in the raw food diet?
This is the wrong ng for serious health seekers. Mostly cooked-glop
veg*ns, ethically-jejune animal rightsers, and psychopathic, trolling
necrophages.
Go to http://www.rawtimes.com/rawlife.html and sign up for the mailing
list, 'rawlife'. I'll see you there.
I have considerable experience with raw diets, a strong background in
chemistry, and will help you through the transition and getting past some of
the more popular, but totally erroneous, nutribabble.
See http://www.ecologos.org/ttdd.html for valid dietary info.
http://www.ecologos.org/livingfood.htm

Laurie

wrote:
> I guess the issue is what to cook, and how much.
>
> For example, grains and tubers in some cases need to be cooked, and are
> important staples. For infants cooking makes foods accessible that
> otherwise would be too difficult to chew.
>
> However, most people go WAY overboard. What is the point of "toast"?
> Why heat leftovers or soup from a can? What's the point of "grilled
> cheese" - it is simply tradition and has no healthful purpose.

Reheating can destroy pathogens.

A warm meal is also pleasurable. If you don't like what you have to eat
you are more likely to go out and get junk.

--

Steve

Be A Healthy Vegan Or Vegetarian
http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdo...ealthyVeg.html

Steve's Home Page
http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdom/

"The great American thought trap: It is not real
unless it can be seen on television or bought in a
shopping mall"

wrote:
>
> Steve wrote:
>
>>diane wrote:
>>
>>>has anyone here tried going raw, as in the raw food diet?
>>
>>
>>I did when I was 14 back in the 80s. I followed all the rules and my
>>health was not the better for it.
>>
>>If you are thinking about it you might find these articles interesting:
>>
>>This person has no professional medical credentials I know of
>>(neither will the cranks who will not like what he has to say), but what
>>he has to say is in every introductory biochemistry book:
>>http://www.fredericpatenaude.com/enzymes.html
>>
>>
>>This article is by Jack Norris a vegan Registered Dietician, and an
>>animal rights activist who co-runs vegan outreach:
>>http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/cooking
>>
>>
>>Dr. Michael Greger a vegan M.D. who does a lot of lecturing and research
>>on nutrition. It is from his free monthly nutrition e-mail news letter
>>( also readable on veganmd.com):
>>
>>http://www.drgreger.org/november2003.html
>>
>>( search the page for the string "G. Raw versus Cooked: Which is
>>MoreNatural?")
>>
>>
>>HTH
>>
>>Steve
>>
>
>
>
> Thanks for the reading Steve - interesting.
>
> I guess the issue is what to cook, and how much.
>
> For example, grains and tubers in some cases need to be cooked, and are
> important staples. For infants cooking makes foods accessible that
> otherwise would be too difficult to chew.
>
> However, most people go WAY overboard. What is the point of "toast"?

Toasting slightly changes the texture and flavor. Some people enjoy it.
Do you have anything against people *enjoying* what they eat?

> Why heat leftovers or soup from a can?

It can a good idea for the former because of the possibility of minor
contamination. For the latter, it improves the flavor. You object to that?

> What's the point of "grilled cheese" -

There are several points. People enjoy the flavor and texture of toasted
bread. They also enjoy melted cheese. Together, it's more pleasing to
the senses than a cold slice of cheese between two slices of bread.

> it is simply tradition and has no healthful purpose.

Pringles don't serve a healthful purpose, but I enjoy snacking on them
on occasion. Please tell me you still have "bad" foods you allow
yourself to enjoy from time to time.

"diane" > wrote in message
...
> has anyone here tried going raw, as in the raw food diet?

steak tartar is quite good.

"Steve" > wrote in message
...
>
> A warm meal is also pleasurable. If you don't like what you have to eat
> you are more likely to go out and get junk.

Or you are more likely to go out and get drunk.



>
> --
>
> Steve
>
> Be A Healthy Vegan Or Vegetarian
> http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdo...ealthyVeg.html
>
> Steve's Home Page
> http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdom/
>
> "The great American thought trap: It is not real
> unless it can be seen on television or bought in a
> shopping mall"
>
>

usual suspect wrote:
> wrote:
> >
> > Steve wrote:
> >
> >>diane wrote:
> >>
> >>>has anyone here tried going raw, as in the raw food diet?
> >>
> >>
> >>I did when I was 14 back in the 80s. I followed all the rules and my
> >>health was not the better for it.
> >>
> >>If you are thinking about it you might find these articles interesting:
> >>
> >>This person has no professional medical credentials I know of
> >>(neither will the cranks who will not like what he has to say), but what
> >>he has to say is in every introductory biochemistry book:
> >>http://www.fredericpatenaude.com/enzymes.html
> >>
> >>
> >>This article is by Jack Norris a vegan Registered Dietician, and an
> >>animal rights activist who co-runs vegan outreach:
> >>http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/cooking
> >>
> >>
> >>Dr. Michael Greger a vegan M.D. who does a lot of lecturing and research
> >>on nutrition. It is from his free monthly nutrition e-mail news letter
> >>( also readable on veganmd.com):
> >>
> >>http://www.drgreger.org/november2003.html
> >>
> >>( search the page for the string "G. Raw versus Cooked: Which is
> >>MoreNatural?")
> >>
> >>
> >>HTH
> >>
> >>Steve
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks for the reading Steve - interesting.
> >
> > I guess the issue is what to cook, and how much.
> >
> > For example, grains and tubers in some cases need to be cooked, and are
> > important staples. For infants cooking makes foods accessible that
> > otherwise would be too difficult to chew.
> >
> > However, most people go WAY overboard. What is the point of "toast"?
>
> Toasting slightly changes the texture and flavor. Some people enjoy it.
> Do you have anything against people *enjoying* what they eat?
>

Certainly not! My point is that people should consider: why do I enjoy
such and such? Often the reason we like certain foods is not a
physical taste, or an effect, but simply a tradition - it reminds us of
certain things.

> > Why heat leftovers or soup from a can?
>
> It can a good idea for the former because of the possibility of minor
> contamination. For the latter, it improves the flavor. You object to that?
>

I do object. I have found no flavor improvement, and I think minor
contamination is healthful.

> > What's the point of "grilled cheese" -
>
> There are several points. People enjoy the flavor and texture of toasted
> bread. They also enjoy melted cheese. Together, it's more pleasing to
> the senses than a cold slice of cheese between two slices of bread.
>

Again I don't want to stop anyone from doing things they enjoy!
Rather, we should think about why we enjoy things carefully rather than
assume we enjoy them because others do. Why do you find this melted
concoction more pleasing to the senses than a nice cold slice of cheese
with two slices of bread? Can you explain why?

> > it is simply tradition and has no healthful purpose.
>
> Pringles don't serve a healthful purpose, but I enjoy snacking on them
> on occasion. Please tell me you still have "bad" foods you allow
> yourself to enjoy from time to time.

Me too. I'll eat almost anything and enjoy it. I find my enjoyment
from foods is proportional to my hunger, though clearly there are many
other factors.

Cheers - shevek

wrote:
>>>>>has anyone here tried going raw, as in the raw food diet?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I did when I was 14 back in the 80s. I followed all the rules and my
>>>>health was not the better for it.
>>>>
>>>>If you are thinking about it you might find these articles interesting:
>>>>
>>>>This person has no professional medical credentials I know of
>>>>(neither will the cranks who will not like what he has to say), but what
>>>>he has to say is in every introductory biochemistry book:
>>>>http://www.fredericpatenaude.com/enzymes.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>This article is by Jack Norris a vegan Registered Dietician, and an
>>>>animal rights activist who co-runs vegan outreach:
>>>>http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/cooking
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Dr. Michael Greger a vegan M.D. who does a lot of lecturing and research
>>>>on nutrition. It is from his free monthly nutrition e-mail news letter
>>>>( also readable on veganmd.com):
>>>>
>>>>http://www.drgreger.org/november2003.html
>>>>
>>>>( search the page for the string "G. Raw versus Cooked: Which is
>>>>MoreNatural?")
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>HTH
>>>>
>>>>Steve
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Thanks for the reading Steve - interesting.
>>>
>>>I guess the issue is what to cook, and how much.
>>>
>>>For example, grains and tubers in some cases need to be cooked, and are
>>>important staples. For infants cooking makes foods accessible that
>>>otherwise would be too difficult to chew.
>>>
>>>However, most people go WAY overboard. What is the point of "toast"?
>>
>>Toasting slightly changes the texture and flavor. Some people enjoy it.
>>Do you have anything against people *enjoying* what they eat?
>
> Certainly not! My point is that people should consider: why do I enjoy
> such and such? Often the reason we like certain foods is not a
> physical taste, or an effect, but simply a tradition - it reminds us of
> certain things.

That's an important consideration, though. Your examples aren't matters
of tradition, they're mainly matters of taste.

>>>Why heat leftovers or soup from a can?
>>
>>It can a good idea for the former because of the possibility of minor
>>contamination. For the latter, it improves the flavor. You object to that?
>
> I do object. I have found no flavor improvement,

Speak for yourself. Others enjoy heated foods to tepid or cold.

> and I think minor
> contamination is healthful.

Not everyone shares your unhygienic tastes.

>>>What's the point of "grilled cheese" -
>>
>>There are several points. People enjoy the flavor and texture of toasted
>>bread. They also enjoy melted cheese. Together, it's more pleasing to
>>the senses than a cold slice of cheese between two slices of bread.
>
> Again I don't want to stop anyone from doing things they enjoy!

Then don't attribute their enjoyment to "tradition."

> Rather, we should think about why we enjoy things carefully rather than
> assume we enjoy them because others do.

Why should anyone engage in mental gymnastics when they just want to eat
something they enjoy? That defeats the purpose of enjoying it.

> Why do you find this melted
> concoction more pleasing to the senses than a nice cold slice of cheese
> with two slices of bread? Can you explain why?

From my own point of view, I enjoy toasty (and crusty) bread. I also
prefer the texture of melted cheese to cold, hard cheese. It's more
pleasing to my senses. For the same reason, I used to enjoy nachos at a
sporting event -- the combination of crunchy and smooth textures is
enjoyable, and so is the flavor (especially with extra peppers).

>>>it is simply tradition and has no healthful purpose.

I still want to know why you consider something others may find
enjoyable from a taste/texture standpoint "simply tradition."

>>Pringles don't serve a healthful purpose, but I enjoy snacking on them
>>on occasion. Please tell me you still have "bad" foods you allow
>>yourself to enjoy from time to time.
>
> Me too. I'll eat almost anything and enjoy it. I find my enjoyment
> from foods is proportional to my hunger, though clearly there are many
> other factors.

The same is true of others' and their tastes.

usual suspect > wrote:

> > What's the point of "grilled cheese" -
>
> There are several points. People enjoy the flavor and texture of toasted
> bread. They also enjoy melted cheese. Together, it's more pleasing to
> the senses than a cold slice of cheese between two slices of bread.

Cheese is a raw food?


> > it is simply tradition and has no healthful purpose.
>
> Pringles don't serve a healthful purpose, but I enjoy snacking on them
> on occasion. Please tell me you still have "bad" foods you allow
> yourself to enjoy from time to time.

Hmmmmmmmm, Pringles ...