And cares about Animal rights. Are you published in so many peer
reviewed papers. (Yes, there are popular press articles mixed in.)

I would prefer a doctor that cares about life.

# Barnard ND, Scialli, Turner-McGrievy GM, Lanou AJ. Acceptability of a
very-low-fat, vegan diet compares favorably to a more moderate low-fat
diet in a randomized, controlled trial. J Cardiopulm Rehab 2004;24:229-35.
# Turner-McGrievy GM, Barnard ND, Scialli AR, Lanou AJ. Effects of a
low-fat, vegan diet and a Step II diet on macro- and micronutrient
intakes in overweight, postmenopausal women. Nutrition 2004;20:738-46.
# Berkow S, Barnard ND. Blood pressure regulation and vegetarian diets.
Nutr Rev 2004, in press.
# Lanou A, Barnard ND, Berkow S. Calcium, dairy products, and bone
health in children and young adults: A re-evaluation of the evidence.
Pediatrics 2004, in press.
# Jenkins DJA, Kendall CWC, Marchie A, Jenkins AL, Augustin LSA, Ludwig
DS,Barnard ND, Anderson JW. Type 2 diabetes and the vegetarian diet. Am
J Clin Nutr 2003, in press.
# Barnard ND, Scialli AR, Turner-McGrievy G, Lanou AJ. Acceptability of
a low-fat, vegan diet compares favorably to a Step II diet in a
randomized, controlled trial. (Abstract) Diabetes 2003; American
Diabetes Association 63rd Scientific Sessions Abstract Book, in press.
# Barnard ND. Toxicity testing in the development of anticancer drugs.
Lancet Oncol 2002;3:440–1.
# Keller JL, Lanou AJ, Barnard ND. The consumer cost of calcium from
food and supplements. J Am Dietetic Asso 2002;102:1669–71.
# Barnard ND, Scialli AR, Bobela S. The current use of estrogens for
growth-suppressant therapy in adolescent girls. J Ped Adol Gynecol
2002;15:23–6.
# Barnard ND, Scialli AR, Hurlock D, Bertron P. Diet and sex-hormone
binding globulin, dysmenorrhea, and premenstrual symptoms. Obstet
Gynecol 2000;95:245-50.
# Barnard ND, Scialli AR, Bertron P, Hurlock D, Edmonds K, Talev L.
Effectiveness of a low-fat, vegetarian diet in altering serum lipids in
healthy premenopausal women. Am J Cardiol 2000;85:969-72.
# Bertron P, Barnard ND, Mills M. Racial bias in federal nutrition
policy, part II: weak guidelines take a disproportionate toll. J Natl
Med Assoc 1999; 91: 201–08.
# Barnard ND. Study design of an investigation of lactose maldigestion.
Am J Clin Nutr 1999, 69: 1287–92.
# Nicholson AS, Sklar M, Barnard ND, Gore S, Sullivan R, Browning S.
Toward improved management of NIDDM: a randomized, controlled, pilot
intervention using a low-fat, vegetarian diet. Prev Med 1999;29:87–91.
# Bertron P, Barnard ND, Mills M. Racial bias in federal nutrition
policy, part I: the public health implications of variations in lactase
persistence. J Natl Med Assoc 1999;91:151–157.
# Barnard ND, Kaufman SR. Animal research is wasteful and misleading.
Sci Am 1997;276:64–6.
# Ou****er JL, Nicholson A, Barnard ND. Dairy products and breast
cancer: the IGF-I, estrogen, and bGH hypothesis. Med Hypoth 1997;48:453–61.
# Haapapuro ER, Barnard ND, Simon M. Animal waste used as livestock
feed: dangers to human health. Prev Med 1997;26:599–602.
# Barnard ND, Nicholson A. Beliefs about dietary factors in breast
cancer prevention among American women, 1991 to 1995. Prev Med
1997;26:109–13.
# Wolfe M, Barnard ND, McCaffrey SM. Animal laboratory exercises in
medical school curricula. ATLA 1996;24, 953–6.
# Barnard ND, Akhtar A, Nicholson A. Factors that facilitate compliance
to lower fat intake. Arch Fam Med 1995;4:153–8.
# Barnard ND, Nicholson A, Howard JL. The medical costs attributable to
meat consumption. Prev Med 1995;24:646–55.
# Barnard ND. Human experiments: redrawing ethical boundaries. Appl Clin
Trials 1994;3:34–6.
# Butrum R, Barnard ND, Campbell TC, et al. Diet, nutrition and cancer
in health care reform: a position paper of the American Institute for
Cancer Research. American Institute for Cancer Research, Washington, DC,
August 1994.

"Beach Runner" > wrote in message
news
> And cares about Animal rights. Are you published in so many
> peer reviewed papers. (Yes, there are popular press articles
> mixed in.)
>
> I would prefer a doctor that cares about life.
====================
Why? You continue to prove that YOU don't care about unnecessary
death and suffering of animals, killer.



snip crap...

Beach Runner wrote:
> And cares about Animal rights. Are you published in so many peer
> reviewed papers. (Yes, there are popular press articles mixed in.)
>
> I would prefer a doctor that cares about life.
>
> # Barnard ND, Scialli, Turner-McGrievy GM, Lanou AJ. Acceptability of a
> very-low-fat, vegan diet compares favorably to a more moderate low-fat
> diet in a randomized, controlled trial. J Cardiopulm Rehab 2004;24:229-35.
> # Turner-McGrievy GM, Barnard ND, Scialli AR, Lanou AJ. Effects of a
> low-fat, vegan diet and a Step II diet on macro- and micronutrient
> intakes in overweight, postmenopausal women. Nutrition 2004;20:738-46.
> # Berkow S, Barnard ND. Blood pressure regulation and vegetarian diets.
> Nutr Rev 2004, in press.
> # Lanou A, Barnard ND, Berkow S. Calcium, dairy products, and bone
> health in children and young adults: A re-evaluation of the evidence.
> Pediatrics 2004, in press.
> # Jenkins DJA, Kendall CWC, Marchie A, Jenkins AL, Augustin LSA, Ludwig
> DS,Barnard ND, Anderson JW. Type 2 diabetes and the vegetarian diet. Am
> J Clin Nutr 2003, in press.
> # Barnard ND, Scialli AR, Turner-McGrievy G, Lanou AJ. Acceptability of
> a low-fat, vegan diet compares favorably to a Step II diet in a
> randomized, controlled trial. (Abstract) Diabetes 2003; American
> Diabetes Association 63rd Scientific Sessions Abstract Book, in press.
> # Barnard ND. Toxicity testing in the development of anticancer drugs.
> Lancet Oncol 2002;3:440–1.
> # Keller JL, Lanou AJ, Barnard ND. The consumer cost of calcium from
> food and supplements. J Am Dietetic Asso 2002;102:1669–71.
> # Barnard ND, Scialli AR, Bobela S. The current use of estrogens for
> growth-suppressant therapy in adolescent girls. J Ped Adol Gynecol
> 2002;15:23–6.
> # Barnard ND, Scialli AR, Hurlock D, Bertron P. Diet and sex-hormone
> binding globulin, dysmenorrhea, and premenstrual symptoms. Obstet
> Gynecol 2000;95:245-50.
> # Barnard ND, Scialli AR, Bertron P, Hurlock D, Edmonds K, Talev L.
> Effectiveness of a low-fat, vegetarian diet in altering serum lipids in
> healthy premenopausal women. Am J Cardiol 2000;85:969-72.
> # Bertron P, Barnard ND, Mills M. Racial bias in federal nutrition
> policy, part II: weak guidelines take a disproportionate toll. J Natl
> Med Assoc 1999; 91: 201–08.
> # Barnard ND. Study design of an investigation of lactose maldigestion.
> Am J Clin Nutr 1999, 69: 1287–92.
> # Nicholson AS, Sklar M, Barnard ND, Gore S, Sullivan R, Browning S.
> Toward improved management of NIDDM: a randomized, controlled, pilot
> intervention using a low-fat, vegetarian diet. Prev Med 1999;29:87–91.
> # Bertron P, Barnard ND, Mills M. Racial bias in federal nutrition
> policy, part I: the public health implications of variations in lactase
> persistence. J Natl Med Assoc 1999;91:151–157.
> # Barnard ND, Kaufman SR. Animal research is wasteful and misleading.
> Sci Am 1997;276:64–6.
> # Ou****er JL, Nicholson A, Barnard ND. Dairy products and breast
> cancer: the IGF-I, estrogen, and bGH hypothesis. Med Hypoth 1997;48:453–61.
> # Haapapuro ER, Barnard ND, Simon M. Animal waste used as livestock
> feed: dangers to human health. Prev Med 1997;26:599–602.
> # Barnard ND, Nicholson A. Beliefs about dietary factors in breast
> cancer prevention among American women, 1991 to 1995. Prev Med
> 1997;26:109–13.
> # Wolfe M, Barnard ND, McCaffrey SM. Animal laboratory exercises in
> medical school curricula. ATLA 1996;24, 953–6.
> # Barnard ND, Akhtar A, Nicholson A. Factors that facilitate compliance
> to lower fat intake. Arch Fam Med 1995;4:153–8.
> # Barnard ND, Nicholson A, Howard JL. The medical costs attributable to
> meat consumption. Prev Med 1995;24:646–55.
> # Barnard ND. Human experiments: redrawing ethical boundaries. Appl Clin
> Trials 1994;3:34–6.
> # Butrum R, Barnard ND, Campbell TC, et al. Diet, nutrition and cancer
> in health care reform: a position paper of the American Institute for
> Cancer Research. American Institute for Cancer Research, Washington, DC,
> August 1994.

I notice that none of the bigots that say Bernard has no qualifications
in the field ignore this list of peer reviewed articles.

Yes, he's a believer in Animal Rights. I'm more concerned about a Vice
President that shoots caged birds than a doctor, with an adjunct Medical
Teaching Position, that cares about life. There is real research in
professional journals.

I don't agree with everything he stands for but we sure need the research.

Do be published in a peer reviewed journal demonstrates competence in
the field. You can attack the association but not his peer reviewed
journal articles. I have mixed feelings about animal testing. Much of
it is abusive, but I personally think there is value, but many centers
treat animals with abuse. This has been demonstrated repeated.

I also strongly object to much of Peta's tactics.

I disagree strongly with any stands supporting violence. But don't you
want to know about the research on meat on the digestive tract, milk and
osteoporosis, meat and cancer and similar research? There is no doubt
meat has no fiber.

I'm a part time musician and play every year for the American Heart
Association Dinner. They serve roast beef and cheese cake, and look at
me as bizarre for requesting vegetarian alternatives.

This is a Vegan News group. It attracts sick trolls that want to attack
those that choose a life style. I guess I would like to improve my
kill file in netscape. I seek advise.

Yes, eating a healthier meat diet and exercise would improve health
compared to typical amounts. Exercise is paramount regardless of diet.
No arguments. I want aggressive research. He's doing it.
If you want to argue his findings do so. His peers are best equipped to
do so. His articles must pass peer reviews for publication. Most are
on nutrition.

I will not be chased away from a Vegan news group. If there is a
legitimate discussion, against my position I welcome it. I will attempt
to ignore personal attacks.

I happen to choose a physician with a graduate nutritionist degree and
an MD and he was appalled by the lack of nutrition in medical school.

We also know phytochemicals are essential, yet how many doctors are
recommending them?

I see you cowards ignore the fact that he is well published in peer
reviewed medical journals.

Beach Runner wrote:

>
>
> Beach Runner wrote:
>
>> And cares about Animal rights. Are you published in so many peer
>> reviewed papers. (Yes, there are popular press articles mixed in.)
>>
>> I would prefer a doctor that cares about life.
>>
>> # Barnard ND, Scialli, Turner-McGrievy GM, Lanou AJ. Acceptability of
>> a very-low-fat, vegan diet compares favorably to a more moderate
>> low-fat diet in a randomized, controlled trial. J Cardiopulm Rehab
>> 2004;24:229-35.
>> # Turner-McGrievy GM, Barnard ND, Scialli AR, Lanou AJ. Effects of a
>> low-fat, vegan diet and a Step II diet on macro- and micronutrient
>> intakes in overweight, postmenopausal women. Nutrition 2004;20:738-46.
>> # Berkow S, Barnard ND. Blood pressure regulation and vegetarian
>> diets. Nutr Rev 2004, in press.
>> # Lanou A, Barnard ND, Berkow S. Calcium, dairy products, and bone
>> health in children and young adults: A re-evaluation of the evidence.
>> Pediatrics 2004, in press.
>> # Jenkins DJA, Kendall CWC, Marchie A, Jenkins AL, Augustin LSA,
>> Ludwig DS,Barnard ND, Anderson JW. Type 2 diabetes and the vegetarian
>> diet. Am J Clin Nutr 2003, in press.
>> # Barnard ND, Scialli AR, Turner-McGrievy G, Lanou AJ. Acceptability
>> of a low-fat, vegan diet compares favorably to a Step II diet in a
>> randomized, controlled trial. (Abstract) Diabetes 2003; American
>> Diabetes Association 63rd Scientific Sessions Abstract Book, in press.
>> # Barnard ND. Toxicity testing in the development of anticancer drugs.
>> Lancet Oncol 2002;3:440–1.
>> # Keller JL, Lanou AJ, Barnard ND. The consumer cost of calcium from
>> food and supplements. J Am Dietetic Asso 2002;102:1669–71.
>> # Barnard ND, Scialli AR, Bobela S. The current use of estrogens for
>> growth-suppressant therapy in adolescent girls. J Ped Adol Gynecol
>> 2002;15:23–6.
>> # Barnard ND, Scialli AR, Hurlock D, Bertron P. Diet and sex-hormone
>> binding globulin, dysmenorrhea, and premenstrual symptoms. Obstet
>> Gynecol 2000;95:245-50.
>> # Barnard ND, Scialli AR, Bertron P, Hurlock D, Edmonds K, Talev L.
>> Effectiveness of a low-fat, vegetarian diet in altering serum lipids
>> in healthy premenopausal women. Am J Cardiol 2000;85:969-72.
>> # Bertron P, Barnard ND, Mills M. Racial bias in federal nutrition
>> policy, part II: weak guidelines take a disproportionate toll. J Natl
>> Med Assoc 1999; 91: 201–08.
>> # Barnard ND. Study design of an investigation of lactose
>> maldigestion. Am J Clin Nutr 1999, 69: 1287–92.
>> # Nicholson AS, Sklar M, Barnard ND, Gore S, Sullivan R, Browning S.
>> Toward improved management of NIDDM: a randomized, controlled, pilot
>> intervention using a low-fat, vegetarian diet. Prev Med 1999;29:87–91.
>> # Bertron P, Barnard ND, Mills M. Racial bias in federal nutrition
>> policy, part I: the public health implications of variations in
>> lactase persistence. J Natl Med Assoc 1999;91:151–157.
>> # Barnard ND, Kaufman SR. Animal research is wasteful and misleading.
>> Sci Am 1997;276:64–6.
>> # Ou****er JL, Nicholson A, Barnard ND. Dairy products and breast
>> cancer: the IGF-I, estrogen, and bGH hypothesis. Med Hypoth
>> 1997;48:453–61.
>> # Haapapuro ER, Barnard ND, Simon M. Animal waste used as livestock
>> feed: dangers to human health. Prev Med 1997;26:599–602.
>> # Barnard ND, Nicholson A. Beliefs about dietary factors in breast
>> cancer prevention among American women, 1991 to 1995. Prev Med
>> 1997;26:109–13.
>> # Wolfe M, Barnard ND, McCaffrey SM. Animal laboratory exercises in
>> medical school curricula. ATLA 1996;24, 953–6.
>> # Barnard ND, Akhtar A, Nicholson A. Factors that facilitate
>> compliance to lower fat intake. Arch Fam Med 1995;4:153–8.
>> # Barnard ND, Nicholson A, Howard JL. The medical costs attributable
>> to meat consumption. Prev Med 1995;24:646–55.
>> # Barnard ND. Human experiments: redrawing ethical boundaries. Appl
>> Clin Trials 1994;3:34–6.
>> # Butrum R, Barnard ND, Campbell TC, et al. Diet, nutrition and cancer
>> in health care reform: a position paper of the American Institute for
>> Cancer Research. American Institute for Cancer Research, Washington,
>> DC, August 1994.
>
>
> I notice that none of the bigots that say Bernard has no qualifications
> in the field ignore this list of peer reviewed articles.
>
> Yes, he's a believer in Animal Rights. I'm more concerned about a Vice
> President that shoots caged birds than a doctor, with an adjunct Medical
> Teaching Position, that cares about life. There is real research in
> professional journals.
>
> I don't agree with everything he stands for but we sure need the research.
>
> Do be published in a peer reviewed journal demonstrates competence in
> the field. You can attack the association but not his peer reviewed
> journal articles. I have mixed feelings about animal testing. Much of
> it is abusive, but I personally think there is value, but many centers
> treat animals with abuse. This has been demonstrated repeated.
>
> I also strongly object to much of Peta's tactics.
>
> I disagree strongly with any stands supporting violence. But don't you
> want to know about the research on meat on the digestive tract, milk and
> osteoporosis, meat and cancer and similar research? There is no doubt
> meat has no fiber.
>
> I'm a part time musician and play every year for the American Heart
> Association Dinner. They serve roast beef and cheese cake, and look at
> me as bizarre for requesting vegetarian alternatives.
>
> This is a Vegan News group. It attracts sick trolls that want to attack
> those that choose a life style. I guess I would like to improve my
> kill file in netscape. I seek advise.
>
> Yes, eating a healthier meat diet and exercise would improve health
> compared to typical amounts. Exercise is paramount regardless of diet.
> No arguments. I want aggressive research. He's doing it.
> If you want to argue his findings do so. His peers are best equipped to
> do so. His articles must pass peer reviews for publication. Most are
> on nutrition.
>
> I will not be chased away from a Vegan news group. If there is a
> legitimate discussion, against my position I welcome it. I will attempt
> to ignore personal attacks.
>
> I happen to choose a physician with a graduate nutritionist degree and
> an MD and he was appalled by the lack of nutrition in medical school.
>
> We also know phytochemicals are essential, yet how many doctors are
> recommending them?
>
>
>

"Beach Runner" > wrote in message
m...
>I see you cowards ignore the fact that he is well published in
>peer reviewed medical journals.
=========================
I see that the cowards like you fail to discuss the massive
unnecessary death and suffering caused by his, and your
lifestyles. Why is that hypocrite?



>
> Beach Runner wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Beach Runner wrote:
>>
>>> And cares about Animal rights. Are you published in so many
>>> peer reviewed papers. (Yes, there are popular press articles
>>> mixed in.)
>>>
>>> I would prefer a doctor that cares about life.
>>>
>>> # Barnard ND, Scialli, Turner-McGrievy GM, Lanou AJ.
>>> Acceptability of a very-low-fat, vegan diet compares
>>> favorably to a more moderate low-fat diet in a randomized,
>>> controlled trial. J Cardiopulm Rehab 2004;24:229-35.
>>> # Turner-McGrievy GM, Barnard ND, Scialli AR, Lanou AJ.
>>> Effects of a low-fat, vegan diet and a Step II diet on macro-
>>> and micronutrient intakes in overweight, postmenopausal
>>> women. Nutrition 2004;20:738-46.
>>> # Berkow S, Barnard ND. Blood pressure regulation and
>>> vegetarian diets. Nutr Rev 2004, in press.
>>> # Lanou A, Barnard ND, Berkow S. Calcium, dairy products, and
>>> bone health in children and young adults: A re-evaluation of
>>> the evidence. Pediatrics 2004, in press.
>>> # Jenkins DJA, Kendall CWC, Marchie A, Jenkins AL, Augustin
>>> LSA, Ludwig DS,Barnard ND, Anderson JW. Type 2 diabetes and
>>> the vegetarian diet. Am J Clin Nutr 2003, in press.
>>> # Barnard ND, Scialli AR, Turner-McGrievy G, Lanou AJ.
>>> Acceptability of a low-fat, vegan diet compares favorably to
>>> a Step II diet in a randomized, controlled trial. (Abstract)
>>> Diabetes 2003; American Diabetes Association 63rd Scientific
>>> Sessions Abstract Book, in press.
>>> # Barnard ND. Toxicity testing in the development of
>>> anticancer drugs. Lancet Oncol 2002;3:440–1.
>>> # Keller JL, Lanou AJ, Barnard ND. The consumer cost of
>>> calcium from food and supplements. J Am Dietetic Asso
>>> 2002;102:1669–71.
>>> # Barnard ND, Scialli AR, Bobela S. The current use of
>>> estrogens for growth-suppressant therapy in adolescent girls.
>>> J Ped Adol Gynecol 2002;15:23–6.
>>> # Barnard ND, Scialli AR, Hurlock D, Bertron P. Diet and
>>> sex-hormone binding globulin, dysmenorrhea, and premenstrual
>>> symptoms. Obstet Gynecol 2000;95:245-50.
>>> # Barnard ND, Scialli AR, Bertron P, Hurlock D, Edmonds K,
>>> Talev L. Effectiveness of a low-fat, vegetarian diet in
>>> altering serum lipids in healthy premenopausal women. Am J
>>> Cardiol 2000;85:969-72.
>>> # Bertron P, Barnard ND, Mills M. Racial bias in federal
>>> nutrition policy, part II: weak guidelines take a
>>> disproportionate toll. J Natl Med Assoc 1999; 91: 201–08.
>>> # Barnard ND. Study design of an investigation of lactose
>>> maldigestion. Am J Clin Nutr 1999, 69: 1287–92.
>>> # Nicholson AS, Sklar M, Barnard ND, Gore S, Sullivan R,
>>> Browning S. Toward improved management of NIDDM: a
>>> randomized, controlled, pilot intervention using a low-fat,
>>> vegetarian diet. Prev Med 1999;29:87–91.
>>> # Bertron P, Barnard ND, Mills M. Racial bias in federal
>>> nutrition policy, part I: the public health implications of
>>> variations in lactase persistence. J Natl Med Assoc
>>> 1999;91:151–157.
>>> # Barnard ND, Kaufman SR. Animal research is wasteful and
>>> misleading. Sci Am 1997;276:64–6.
>>> # Ou****er JL, Nicholson A, Barnard ND. Dairy products and
>>> breast cancer: the IGF-I, estrogen, and bGH hypothesis. Med
>>> Hypoth 1997;48:453–61.
>>> # Haapapuro ER, Barnard ND, Simon M. Animal waste used as
>>> livestock feed: dangers to human health. Prev Med
>>> 1997;26:599–602.
>>> # Barnard ND, Nicholson A. Beliefs about dietary factors in
>>> breast cancer prevention among American women, 1991 to 1995.
>>> Prev Med 1997;26:109–13.
>>> # Wolfe M, Barnard ND, McCaffrey SM. Animal laboratory
>>> exercises in medical school curricula. ATLA 1996;24, 953–6.
>>> # Barnard ND, Akhtar A, Nicholson A. Factors that facilitate
>>> compliance to lower fat intake. Arch Fam Med 1995;4:153–8.
>>> # Barnard ND, Nicholson A, Howard JL. The medical costs
>>> attributable to meat consumption. Prev Med 1995;24:646–55.
>>> # Barnard ND. Human experiments: redrawing ethical
>>> boundaries. Appl Clin Trials 1994;3:34–6.
>>> # Butrum R, Barnard ND, Campbell TC, et al. Diet, nutrition
>>> and cancer in health care reform: a position paper of the
>>> American Institute for Cancer Research. American Institute
>>> for Cancer Research, Washington, DC, August 1994.
>>
>>
>> I notice that none of the bigots that say Bernard has no
>> qualifications in the field ignore this list of peer reviewed
>> articles.
>>
>> Yes, he's a believer in Animal Rights. I'm more concerned
>> about a Vice President that shoots caged birds than a doctor,
>> with an adjunct Medical Teaching Position, that cares about
>> life. There is real research in professional journals.
>>
>> I don't agree with everything he stands for but we sure need
>> the research.
>>
>> Do be published in a peer reviewed journal demonstrates
>> competence in the field. You can attack the association but
>> not his peer reviewed journal articles. I have mixed feelings
>> about animal testing. Much of it is abusive, but I personally
>> think there is value, but many centers treat animals with
>> abuse. This has been demonstrated repeated.
>>
>> I also strongly object to much of Peta's tactics.
>>
>> I disagree strongly with any stands supporting violence. But
>> don't you want to know about the research on meat on the
>> digestive tract, milk and
>> osteoporosis, meat and cancer and similar research? There is
>> no doubt meat has no fiber.
>>
>> I'm a part time musician and play every year for the American
>> Heart Association Dinner. They serve roast beef and cheese
>> cake, and look at me as bizarre for requesting vegetarian
>> alternatives.
>>
>> This is a Vegan News group. It attracts sick trolls that want
>> to attack those that choose a life style. I guess I would
>> like to improve my kill file in netscape. I seek advise.
>>
>> Yes, eating a healthier meat diet and exercise would improve
>> health compared to typical amounts. Exercise is paramount
>> regardless of diet. No arguments. I want aggressive research.
>> He's doing it.
>> If you want to argue his findings do so. His peers are best
>> equipped to do so. His articles must pass peer reviews for
>> publication. Most are on nutrition.
>>
>> I will not be chased away from a Vegan news group. If there
>> is a legitimate discussion, against my position I welcome it.
>> I will attempt to ignore personal attacks.
>>
>> I happen to choose a physician with a graduate nutritionist
>> degree and an MD and he was appalled by the lack of nutrition
>> in medical school.
>>
>> We also know phytochemicals are essential, yet how many
>> doctors are recommending them?
>>
>>

I don't hate the man. It just seems rather convinient that his opinions
on nutrition
condemn exactly the same foods as his opinions on ethics.

Dave wrote:

> I don't hate the man. It just seems rather convinient that his opinions
> on nutrition
> condemn exactly the same foods as his opinions on ethics.
>
Yet they are published in peer reviewed journals, subject to the highest
level of criticism. He also write to reach in the popular press.

This is a vegan news group.

Beach Runner wrote:
> Dave wrote:
>
> > I don't hate the man. It just seems rather convinient that his opinions
> > on nutrition
> > condemn exactly the same foods as his opinions on ethics.
> >
> Yet they are published in peer reviewed journals, subject to the highest
> level of criticism.

Be that as it may, his views on nutrition are not entirely mainstream
and just happen to mesh perfectly with his ethics.

> He also write to reach in the popular press.
>
> This is a vegan news group.

Does that mean sceptics are unwelcome?

Dave wrote:

> Beach Runner wrote:
>
>>Dave wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I don't hate the man. It just seems rather convinient that his opinions
>>>on nutrition
>>>condemn exactly the same foods as his opinions on ethics.
>>>
>>
>>Yet they are published in peer reviewed journals, subject to the highest
>>level of criticism.
>
>
> Be that as it may, his views on nutrition are not entirely mainstream
> and just happen to mesh perfectly with his ethics.

He obviously is inspired. That doesn't negate the integrity of his
work, or make it not worth considering. Just as it has been published
with other world class authors and researchers. Yes, he also writes in
the free press.

>
>
>>He also write to reach in the popular press.
>>
>>This is a vegan news group.
>
>
> Does that mean sceptics are unwelcome?
>
Skepticism is always healthy and valuable.

Beach Runner wrote:
> Dave wrote:
>
> > Beach Runner wrote:
> >
> >>Dave wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>I don't hate the man. It just seems rather convinient that his opinions
> >>>on nutrition
> >>>condemn exactly the same foods as his opinions on ethics.
> >>>
> >>
> >>Yet they are published in peer reviewed journals, subject to the highest
> >>level of criticism.
> >
> >
> > Be that as it may, his views on nutrition are not entirely mainstream
> > and just happen to mesh perfectly with his ethics.
>
> He obviously is inspired. That doesn't negate the integrity of his
> work, or make it not worth considering.

His work may be worth considering if your career is in nutrition.
As a layman it is harder for me to determine the quality of a study
and it makes more sense to base my nutrition on a variety of sources
that don't give a one-sided account in favour of a diet they believe
people should follow on ethical, rather than health grounds.

I have read various leaflets on nutrition published by AR organisations
and they almost invariably leave the impression that they are more
concerned with persuading people to go vegan than promoting good health
for existing vegans. The UK vegan society website is the only exception
I can think of.

> Just as it has been published
> with other world class authors and researchers. Yes, he also writes in
> the free press.
>
> >
> >
> >>He also write to reach in the popular press.
> >>
> >>This is a vegan news group.
> >
> >
> > Does that mean sceptics are unwelcome?
> >
> Skepticism is always healthy and valuable.

Most but not all of the food I eat is vegan and I am opposed to the
way the majority of animals are farmed in the Western world. For people
without special dietary needs I don't believe it is necessary to
consume any animal produce but it seems to me that many vegans read
AR propoganda rather uncritically.

Dave wrote:

> Beach Runner wrote:
>
>>Dave wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Beach Runner wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Dave wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I don't hate the man. It just seems rather convinient that his opinions
>>>>>on nutrition
>>>>>condemn exactly the same foods as his opinions on ethics.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Yet they are published in peer reviewed journals, subject to the highest
>>>>level of criticism.
>>>
>>>
>>>Be that as it may, his views on nutrition are not entirely mainstream
>>>and just happen to mesh perfectly with his ethics.
>>
>>He obviously is inspired. That doesn't negate the integrity of his
>>work, or make it not worth considering.
>
>
> His work may be worth considering if your career is in nutrition.
> As a layman it is harder for me to determine the quality of a study
> and it makes more sense to base my nutrition on a variety of sources
> that don't give a one-sided account in favour of a diet they believe
> people should follow on ethical, rather than health grounds.
>
> I have read various leaflets on nutrition published by AR organisations
> and they almost invariably leave the impression that they are more
> concerned with persuading people to go vegan than promoting good health
> for existing vegans. The UK vegan society website is the only exception
> I can think of.
>
That's reasonable.


>
>>Just as it has been published
>>with other world class authors and researchers. Yes, he also writes in
>>the free press.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>>He also write to reach in the popular press.
>>>>
>>>>This is a vegan news group.
>>>
>>>
>>>Does that mean sceptics are unwelcome?
>>>
>>
>>Skepticism is always healthy and valuable.
>
>
> Most but not all of the food I eat is vegan and I am opposed to the
> way the majority of animals are farmed in the Western world. For people
> without special dietary needs I don't believe it is necessary to
> consume any animal produce but it seems to me that many vegans read
> AR propoganda rather uncritically.
>
That is because many became convinced, and the literature in support of
their hard felt beliefs becomes almost holy. They look for support for
what they feel is correct. We all need to examine everything we read,
and when basic questions become frightening, it's time to re-evaluate,
re-think one's concept. It may be strengthened, changed, or modified.


For example, the structural analysis arguments, versus evolutionary
development are really interesting. Their is no question that
structurally people developed from a frugarious descendent and much of
the development and adaptation to human were accompanied by both meat
eating, but also farming. If you are interested in history, those are
areas to explore.

Now, if you are interested in the high number of colon cancers, looking
at structural digestive system may provide clues and areas to examine
scientifically.

That does not answer the questions on diet related to health. It does
not answer questions of diet and caring about society. It clearly does
not address people's spiritual tie ins with vegetarianism.

In this case, this is a doctor that is well published in respected peer
reviewed journal. He is exploring some of these areas, he selects these
areas obviously because of his personality. But, clearly, he realizes
the need to build up a scientifically based research in areas of
interest. Would he not publish a paper that contradicted original
hypothesis?

Beach Runner wrote:
>>>> I don't hate the man. It just seems rather convinient that his opinions
>>>> on nutrition
>>>> condemn exactly the same foods as his opinions on ethics.
>>>>
>>> Yet they are published in peer reviewed journals, subject to the highest
>>> level of criticism.
>>
>> Be that as it may, his views on nutrition are not entirely mainstream
>> and just happen to mesh perfectly with his ethics.
>
> He obviously is inspired.

Inspired by what or whom?

<...>
>> Does that mean sceptics are unwelcome?
>
> Skepticism is always healthy and valuable.

Then why have you urged me and others to stop posting here and leave
this group for true believers like you?

usual suspect wrote:
> Beach Runner wrote:
>
>>>>> I don't hate the man. It just seems rather convinient that his
>>>>> opinions
>>>>> on nutrition
>>>>> condemn exactly the same foods as his opinions on ethics.
>>>>>
>>>> Yet they are published in peer reviewed journals, subject to the
>>>> highest
>>>> level of criticism.
>>>
>>>
>>> Be that as it may, his views on nutrition are not entirely mainstream
>>> and just happen to mesh perfectly with his ethics.
>>
>>
>> He obviously is inspired.
>
>
> Inspired by what or whom?
>


He is inspired by a vegan life style and obviously loves animals. I
would hope that wouldn't effect the integrity of his professional
publications.

It is one thing to write in popular books, how one feels, but one should
not contaminate the research. Research should be subject to critical
review, including analysis of data.
> <...>
>
>>> Does that mean sceptics are unwelcome?
>>
>>
>> Skepticism is always healthy and valuable.
>
>
> Then why have you urged me and others to stop posting here and leave
> this group for true believers like you?

I have no problem with people that are interested in the topic and want
to discuss and learn. However, there are individuals that engage in a
strange anti-social usenet behavior called trolling.

You on the other hand, since you specifically identify yourself, are a
strange bird. It would appear that your highly intelligent,
knowledgeable about nutrition and a wide range of topics. The
intelligence and knowledge is always interesting and attractive.
Sadly, that is tempered with some type of need to hurt and insult.

I have no problem discussing nutrition, vegetarianism or other issues
with people that disagree with me. Heck, my best friend for years was a
right wing DA in NYC who was somewhat to the right of Attila the Hun.
But he engaged in discussion in an honorable manner.

This is the usenet vegan forum and thus a place that vegans might hope
to meet, or people that are interested in the topic could come and
discuss the issues, their joys, their problems as related to this life
style.

Bob

Beach Runner wrote:
>>>>>> I don't hate the man. It just seems rather convinient that his
>>>>>> opinions
>>>>>> on nutrition
>>>>>> condemn exactly the same foods as his opinions on ethics.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Yet they are published in peer reviewed journals, subject to the
>>>>> highest
>>>>> level of criticism.
>>>>
>>>> Be that as it may, his views on nutrition are not entirely mainstream
>>>> and just happen to mesh perfectly with his ethics.
>>>
>>> He obviously is inspired.
>>
>> Inspired by what or whom?
>
> He is inspired by a vegan life style

A vegan lifestyle is the antithesis of living an inspired life. He
appears to be a slave to it, and to its rigid orthodoxy.

> and obviously loves animals.

I disagree that it's obvious he loves animals. He resents that other
people eat them. Like other AR activists, he doesn't care that some
animals live and others die. His primary objection is that humans enjoy
eating them, benefit from testing on them, etc. AR activists don't love
animals so much as they really hate mankind. Their literature is filled
with misanthropy.

> I would hope that wouldn't effect the integrity of his professional
> publications.

Keep hoping, and the rest of us will rely on our BS detectors. PCRM is
an animal rights organization. It is not a professional organization
despite its name. Their membership is overwhemingly (95%) non-scientific
and entirely pro-AR. PCRM's work is advocacy, not scientific.

<...>

usual suspect wrote:

> Beach Runner wrote:
>

>
> I disagree that it's obvious he loves animals. He resents that other
> people eat them. Like other AR activists, he doesn't care that some
> animals live and others die. His primary objection is that humans enjoy
> eating them, benefit from testing on them, etc. AR activists don't love
> animals so much as they really hate mankind. Their literature is filled
> with misanthropy.
I hardly agree with all of Peta's tactics. For example his Holocaust on
a plate with pictures of Jews in camps. I think Peta offends and chases
away many potential friends.

Certain research does make sense. Other's are cruel and unnecessary.



>
>> I would hope that wouldn't effect the integrity of his professional
>> publications.
>
>
> Keep hoping, and the rest of us will rely on our BS detectors. PCRM is
> an animal rights organization. It is not a professional organization
> despite its name. Their membership is overwhemingly (95%) non-scientific
> and entirely pro-AR. PCRM's work is advocacy, not scientific.
>
Generally, what I read in the PCRM is appealing. Can you identify
specifics, other than an agenda you disagree with.

> <...>

Bob

Beach Runner wrote:
>> I disagree that it's obvious he loves animals. He resents that other
>> people eat them. Like other AR activists, he doesn't care that some
>> animals live and others die. His primary objection is that humans
>> enjoy eating them, benefit from testing on them, etc. AR activists
>> don't love animals so much as they really hate mankind. Their
>> literature is filled with misanthropy.
>
> I hardly agree with all of Peta's tactics. For example his Holocaust on
> a plate with pictures of Jews in camps. I think Peta offends and chases
> away many potential friends.

Interesting spin, Bob, because I think PETA's efforts such as the one
you mention attract kooks and extremists to a greater extent than they
dispel "potential friends." This distinction is even clearer when you
consider what PETA's leaders say about various tactics including the
threat and use of violence and terrorism.

Bruce Friedrich, PETA's Director of Vegan Outreach:
If we really believe that these animals do have the same right
to be free from pain and suffering at our hands, then, of course
we’re going to be, as a movement, blowing stuff up and smashing
windows. For the record, I don’t do this stuff, but I do
advocate it. I think it’s a great way to bring about animal
liberation … I think it would be a great thing if all of these
fast-food outlets, and these slaughterhouses, and these
laboratories, and the banks that fund them exploded tomorrow. I
think it’s perfectly appropriate for people to take bricks and
toss them through the windows, and everything else along the
line. Hallelujah to the people who are willing to do it.
—- “Animal Rights 2001” convention, July 2001

McVeigh's decision to go vegetarian groups him with some of the
world's greatest visionaries.
-- Citation not given

Ingrid Newkirk, co-founder of PETA
One day, we would like an end to pet shops and the breeding of
animals. [Dogs] would pursue their natural lives in the wild ...
they would have full lives, not wasting at home for someone to
come home in the evening and pet them and then sit there and
watch TV.
— The Chicago Daily Herald, March 1990


I am not a morose person, but I would rather not be here. I
don’t have any reverence for life, only for the entities
themselves. I would rather see a blank space where I am. This
will sound like fruitcake stuff again but at least I wouldn’t be
harming anything.
— The Washington Post, Nov 1983

Would I rather the research lab that tests animals is reduced to
a bunch of cinders? Yes.
— New York Daily News, 12/7/97

I will be the last person to condemn ALF [Animal Liberation
Front].
— New York Daily News, 12/7/97


I wish we all would get up and go into the labs and take the
animals out or burn them down.
— National Animal Rights Convention, 6/27/97

Even if animal tests produced a cure for AIDS, we’d be against
it.
— Vogue, Sept 1989

Our nonviolent tactics are not as effective. We ask nicely for
years and get nothing. Someone makes a threat, and it works.
— US News & World Report, 4/8/02

I openly hope that [hoof-and-mouth disease] comes here. It will
bring economic harm only for those who profit from giving people
heart attacks and giving animals a concentration camp-like
existence. It would be good for animals, good for human health
and good for the environment.
— ABC News interview, 4/2/01

Humans have grown like a cancer. We're the biggest blight on the
face of the earth.
— Washingtonian magazine, 2/1/90

Perhaps the mere idea of receiving a nasty missive will allow
animal researchers to empathize with their victims for the first
time in their lousy careers. I find it small wonder that the
laboratories aren’t all burning to the ground. If I had more
guts, I’d light a match.
— Chronicle of Higher Education, 11/12/99

Probably everything we do is a publicity stunt ... we are not
here to gather members, to please, to placate, to make friends.
We're here to hold the radical line.
— USA Today, 9/3/91

There’s no rational basis for saying that a human being has
special rights. A rat is a pig is a dog is a boy. They’re all
animals.
— Washingtonian magazine, 8/1/86

> Certain research does make sense.
> Other's are cruel and unnecessary.

The problem is that PCRM and PETA don't distinguish between research
which makes "sense" and that which doesn't. They're extremists who think
ALL research is "bad" when performed on animals. See above.

>>> I would hope that wouldn't effect the integrity of his professional
>>> publications.
>>
>> Keep hoping, and the rest of us will rely on our BS detectors. PCRM is
>> an animal rights organization. It is not a professional organization
>> despite its name. Their membership is overwhemingly (95%)
>> non-scientific and entirely pro-AR. PCRM's work is advocacy, not
>> scientific.
>
> Generally, what I read in the PCRM is appealing.

For the same reason you find the hysteria about global warming
appealing: because it confirms your political and (counter-)cultural
beliefs. PCRM's advocacy of veganism and the doomsdayers global warming
solutions have something else in common: when it comes to addressing the
"problems" they're supposed to solve, both are bogus do-nothing
"solutions." Veganism doesn't end animal suffering or death, nor does it
inherently improve human health -- in many instances, veganism increases
animal harm and worsens human health. Likewise, the extreme leftwing
"solutions" to global warming would have no impact on it -- if anything,
it would make the "problems" worse.

> Can you identify
> specifics, other than an agenda you disagree with.

See above, and add:
http://www.cei.org/gencon/019,04528.cfm
http://www.ncahf.org/articles/o-r/pcrm.html
http://www.animalrights.net/archives...02/000033.html
Etc.