A friend of mine gave me this several years ago, and it was old then. I put
it away for a special occasion and forgot about it, but tonight my wife
asked me to open a sticky, and rooting around in the cellar I found it, so
we decided to open it.

The cork crumbled immediately, and my first thought was " Bummer -
vinegar!", but I managed to get the pieces out and poured two glasses. In
the glass, deep brown-maroon, almost opaque. Huge legs. Nose of raisins,
prunes and sour cherry. Decidedly porty. Amazing palate: huge jammy dried
fruit - raisins, prunes, cherries, perhaps some fig over a nice acidic
backbone. No noticeable oak. Long sweet finish, with still-unresolved
tannins!

Label says 14% alcohol, 10% sugar. I'm amazed by this wine - it's 19 years
old, and properly stored could have lasted another 10-20. Who says Zins
don't age! I don't think they make 'em like this anymore.

Regards,
Dean

On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 03:04:13 GMT, "DPM" > wrote:

>A friend of mine gave me this several years ago, and it was old then. I put
>it away for a special occasion and forgot about it, but tonight my wife
>asked me to open a sticky, and rooting around in the cellar I found it, so
>we decided to open it.
>
>The cork crumbled immediately, and my first thought was " Bummer -
>vinegar!", but I managed to get the pieces out and poured two glasses. In
>the glass, deep brown-maroon, almost opaque. Huge legs. Nose of raisins,
>prunes and sour cherry. Decidedly porty. Amazing palate: huge jammy dried
>fruit - raisins, prunes, cherries, perhaps some fig over a nice acidic
>backbone. No noticeable oak. Long sweet finish, with still-unresolved
>tannins!
>
>Label says 14% alcohol, 10% sugar. I'm amazed by this wine - it's 19 years
>old, and properly stored could have lasted another 10-20. Who says Zins
>don't age! I don't think they make 'em like this anymore.

I've always liked Cline Old Vine Zin and did a double-take when I
started reading your post to note that you were talking about a "late
harvest" bottling.

I don't think you'll ever find "vinegar" in an over the hill
bottle--that's an old wives tale although maderization, sherry flavors
and simply dead/flat wines are likely from over-aged, poorly sealed or
badly stored wines.

That being said, your tasting impressons track with what I expect from
a late harvest wine. They really go for heavy and port is my most
common comparison.

As for making 'em like that anymore, Ridge has done several late
harvest and late picked bottlings in the last couple of years. They
fit the profile you mention.

As for Cline, I picked up an Old Vine Zin a few weeks ago--think it
was '02--and found it decidedly herbal rather than fruit forward.
Somehow dill in wines is a taste I haven't acquired yet.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

"Ed Rasimus" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 03:04:13 GMT, "DPM" > wrote:
>
> [snip]

> As for making 'em like that anymore, Ridge has done several late
> harvest and late picked bottlings in the last couple of years. They
> fit the profile you mention.
>

I have a '97 Ridge Paso Robles late picked in the cellar, but I don't think
it will be in the same league; although the alcohol is at 15.6%(!), RS is
only 0.5%, so I'm not expecting a porty, sweet wine like the Cline.

> As for Cline, I picked up an Old Vine Zin a few weeks ago--think it
> was '02--and found it decidedly herbal rather than fruit forward.
> Somehow dill in wines is a taste I haven't acquired yet.
>
I associate herbal notes with unripeness, although this is probably a
generalization; there may be numerous conditions that cause it. But I still
have a soft spot in my heart for Cline's big Zins; one of the first big Zins
I ever had was the 1994 Cline Big Break. It was absolutely eye-opening, and
it became my reference point for what single-vineyard Zin could/should be
for several years. I still pick up a bottle of the Big Break or Bridgehead
when I can find it. Another one of Cline's that I like is the Ancient Vines
(same as your old vine?). It's consistently good, although some years are
better than others. I don't recall the '02, but I've got a '04 sleeping in
the cellar.

Regards,
Dean

On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 16:16:26 GMT, "DPM" > wrote:

>
>"Ed Rasimus" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 03:04:13 GMT, "DPM" > wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>
>> As for making 'em like that anymore, Ridge has done several late
>> harvest and late picked bottlings in the last couple of years. They
>> fit the profile you mention.
>>
>
>I have a '97 Ridge Paso Robles late picked in the cellar, but I don't think
>it will be in the same league; although the alcohol is at 15.6%(!), RS is
>only 0.5%, so I'm not expecting a porty, sweet wine like the Cline.

I found notes for six occasions with the Ridge Paso Robles Late Picked
'97:

>Fruity bomb. Wonderful after dinner. Too sweet for a meal. (June '00)
>Seemed a little pruny rather than the smooth sweetness on earlier tasting. (Nov '00)
>Great sipper, but probably too sweet for with meals. (July '01)
>Holding as a sweet, pleasant after dinner wine. Much too heavy for serving with food. (July '03)
>Excellent bottle. Warm nose with loads of blueberry and ripe plum. Syruppy with long legs in the glass. Dark plum color. Big rich mouthful of blueberry, plum, cassis and maybe some leather and spice. Wonderful sipping wine. (Sept '03)
>Strictly a dessert wine. Powerful fruit aromas and taste. Smooth, full, long finish. Great sipper. Hated to see the last bottle gone. (Feb '04)

Clearly the wine developed over a couple of years, and with the high
alcohol content, it had the potential for a very long life. It
certainly carried the pruny, plum, dark fruit flavors you mentioned in
the Cline.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

> I found notes for six occasions with the Ridge Paso Robles Late Picked
> '97:
>
> >Fruity bomb. Wonderful after dinner. Too sweet for a meal. (June '00)
> >Seemed a little pruny rather than the smooth sweetness on earlier
tasting. (Nov '00)
> >Great sipper, but probably too sweet for with meals. (July '01)
> >Holding as a sweet, pleasant after dinner wine. Much too heavy for
serving with food. (July '03)
> >Excellent bottle. Warm nose with loads of blueberry and ripe plum.
Syruppy with long legs in the glass. Dark plum color. Big rich mouthful of
blueberry, plum, cassis and maybe some leather and spice. Wonderful sipping
wine. (Sept '03)
> >Strictly a dessert wine. Powerful fruit aromas and taste. Smooth, full,
long finish. Great sipper. Hated to see the last bottle gone. (Feb '04)
>
> Clearly the wine developed over a couple of years, and with the high
> alcohol content, it had the potential for a very long life. It
> certainly carried the pruny, plum, dark fruit flavors you mentioned in
> the Cline.
>
Ed, thanks for the tasting notes. I bought the Ridge shortly after release,
and although my cellar is a little warm, my bottle has probably evolved
along the same track as your notes. I'll not be in a rush to open it, but
I've only got one, so it's nice to see how it's developing.

Thanks again,
Dean

Ed Rasimus wrote:

>
> As for Cline, I picked up an Old Vine Zin a few weeks ago--think it
> was '02--and found it decidedly herbal rather than fruit forward.
> Somehow dill in wines is a taste I haven't acquired yet.
>

At Cline, they claim that the wine is flavored by the eucalyptus trees
that surround the vineyard. Perhaps that is what you taste.

Jon Nadelberg wrote:
> Ed Rasimus wrote:
>
>>
>> As for Cline, I picked up an Old Vine Zin a few weeks ago--think it
>> was '02--and found it decidedly herbal rather than fruit forward.
>> Somehow dill in wines is a taste I haven't acquired yet.
>
> At Cline, they claim that the wine is flavored by the eucalyptus trees
> that surround the vineyard. Perhaps that is what you taste.

That's quite likely true. To me, all of Cline's reds have a certain
"Clineness" to them that I find quite unmistakable (I say this without
ever having identified one blind, though). Whenever I write up notes
about a Cline Zin or Mourvedre I end using the descriptors "eucalyptus"
and/or "mint," which for whatever reason I find closely related in wine.

Mark Lipton

On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 13:48:36 -0400, Mark Lipton >
wrote:

>Jon Nadelberg wrote:
>> Ed Rasimus wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> As for Cline, I picked up an Old Vine Zin a few weeks ago--think it
>>> was '02--and found it decidedly herbal rather than fruit forward.
>>> Somehow dill in wines is a taste I haven't acquired yet.
>>
>> At Cline, they claim that the wine is flavored by the eucalyptus trees
>> that surround the vineyard. Perhaps that is what you taste.
>
>That's quite likely true. To me, all of Cline's reds have a certain
>"Clineness" to them that I find quite unmistakable (I say this without
>ever having identified one blind, though). Whenever I write up notes
>about a Cline Zin or Mourvedre I end using the descriptors "eucalyptus"
>and/or "mint," which for whatever reason I find closely related in wine.
>
>Mark Lipton

I've experienced what you describe, although I admit to a naivete
about Cline's location and the surrounding foliage. I don't mind some
mint and even a bit of eucalytus might bring out the Koala in me, but
this was dill.

Armed with the new knowledge about Cline, I'll look for the
"Cline-ness" and have Mark to thank for it.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

Ed Rasimus wrote:
>
> I've experienced what you describe, although I admit to a naivete
> about Cline's location and the surrounding foliage. I don't mind some
> mint and even a bit of eucalytus might bring out the Koala in me, but
> this was dill.
>
> Armed with the new knowledge about Cline, I'll look for the
> "Cline-ness" and have Mark to thank for it.
>

Hey! I was the one who mentioned it first!

Jon Nadelberg wrote:
> Ed Rasimus wrote:
>>
>> I've experienced what you describe, although I admit to a naivete
>> about Cline's location and the surrounding foliage. I don't mind some
>> mint and even a bit of eucalytus might bring out the Koala in me, but
>> this was dill.
>> Armed with the new knowledge about Cline, I'll look for the
>> "Cline-ness" and have Mark to thank for it.
>
> Hey! I was the one who mentioned it first!

Indeed, in this thread at least, Jon. In honor of the announcement of
the Chemistry Nobel today, I'll engage in a little shameless self-promotion:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.f...21d53dd6d8495f

;-)

Mark Lipton

On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 12:44:49 -0400, Mark Lipton >
wrote:

>Jon Nadelberg wrote:
>> Ed Rasimus wrote:
>>>
>>> I've experienced what you describe, although I admit to a naivete
>>> about Cline's location and the surrounding foliage. I don't mind some
>>> mint and even a bit of eucalytus might bring out the Koala in me, but
>>> this was dill.
>>> Armed with the new knowledge about Cline, I'll look for the
>>> "Cline-ness" and have Mark to thank for it.
>>
>> Hey! I was the one who mentioned it first!
>
>Indeed, in this thread at least, Jon. In honor of the announcement of
>the Chemistry Nobel today, I'll engage in a little shameless self-promotion:
>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.f...21d53dd6d8495f
>
>;-)
>
>Mark Lipton

So, am I to conclude that "Cline-ness" or "Clineness" is now
copyrighted or trademarked and must be noted in publication? And will
that be expanded to Woop-Woopishness?


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

"Mark Lipton" wrote in message
>
>In honor of the announcement of the Chemistry Nobel today,
> I'll engage in a little shameless self-promotion:
>

Your name is conspicuously absent Professor!! ;-)

--

st.h

In article >,
says...
>
>Ed Rasimus wrote:
>
>>
>> As for Cline, I picked up an Old Vine Zin a few weeks ago--think it
>> was '02--and found it decidedly herbal rather than fruit forward.
>> Somehow dill in wines is a taste I haven't acquired yet.
>>
>
>At Cline, they claim that the wine is flavored by the eucalyptus trees
>that surround the vineyard. Perhaps that is what you taste.

Jon,

Interesting observation. I have found this element (hard to really tell from
"mint") in several wines. Most of these vineyards have eucalyptus trees on the
border. Several wine makers claim that they have NO effect. Others, find the
same elements and also find it more pronounced in blocks in closer proximity
to the trees! I do know that I found it for years in the Silver Oak Napa Cabs,
and soon after they quit sourcing from Milat, it disappeared. Maybe it's true,
or maybe it's not. I do find it nice, in moderation, and it seems to be more
pronounced in Cabs, Merlots and Zins. Maybe it's just that eucalyptus trees
grow in the same climatic regions as those varietals, though I seem to have
seen them near PN, and Syrah, but without the effect.

Hunt

In article >,
says...
>
>On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 12:44:49 -0400, Mark Lipton >
>wrote:
>
>>Jon Nadelberg wrote:
>>> Ed Rasimus wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I've experienced what you describe, although I admit to a naivete
>>>> about Cline's location and the surrounding foliage. I don't mind some
>>>> mint and even a bit of eucalytus might bring out the Koala in me, but
>>>> this was dill.
>>>> Armed with the new knowledge about Cline, I'll look for the
>>>> "Cline-ness" and have Mark to thank for it.
>>>
>>> Hey! I was the one who mentioned it first!
>>
>>Indeed, in this thread at least, Jon. In honor of the announcement of
>>the Chemistry Nobel today, I'll engage in a little shameless self-promotion:
>>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.f...21d53dd6d8495f
>>
>>;-)
>>
>>Mark Lipton
>
>So, am I to conclude that "Cline-ness" or "Clineness" is now
>copyrighted or trademarked and must be noted in publication? And will
>that be expanded to Woop-Woopishness?
>
>
>Ed Rasimus

Ed,

I think that a footnote, or two, would suffice, but then I'm not an
intellectual property attorney... ;-}

Hunt

Ed Rasimus wrote:
> On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 12:44:49 -0400, Mark Lipton >
> wrote:
>
>
>>Jon Nadelberg wrote:
>>
>>>Ed Rasimus wrote:
>>>
>>>>I've experienced what you describe, although I admit to a naivete
>>>>about Cline's location and the surrounding foliage. I don't mind some
>>>>mint and even a bit of eucalytus might bring out the Koala in me, but
>>>>this was dill.
>>>>Armed with the new knowledge about Cline, I'll look for the
>>>>"Cline-ness" and have Mark to thank for it.
>>>
>>>Hey! I was the one who mentioned it first!
>>
>>Indeed, in this thread at least, Jon. In honor of the announcement of
>>the Chemistry Nobel today, I'll engage in a little shameless self-promotion:
>>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.f...21d53dd6d8495f
>>
>>;-)
>>
>>Mark Lipton
>
>
> So, am I to conclude that "Cline-ness" or "Clineness" is now
> copyrighted or trademarked and must be noted in publication? And will
> that be expanded to Woop-Woopishness?

I am in contact with my attorneys right now on this topic. Ridgeosity is
also up for grabs, I'm told.

Mark Lipton

Hunt wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
>> Ed Rasimus wrote:
>>
>>> As for Cline, I picked up an Old Vine Zin a few weeks ago--think it
>>> was '02--and found it decidedly herbal rather than fruit forward.
>>> Somehow dill in wines is a taste I haven't acquired yet.
>>>
>> At Cline, they claim that the wine is flavored by the eucalyptus trees
>> that surround the vineyard. Perhaps that is what you taste.
>
> Jon,
>
> Interesting observation. I have found this element (hard to really tell from
> "mint") in several wines. Most of these vineyards have eucalyptus trees on the
> border.


California has a lot of imported eucalyptus trees. They were brought in
around 1850 or so, and many farmers used them as windbreaks. They are
everywhere in the state, particularly in rural areas, and are very
strong in odor.

At Cline, the trees have been there for over a hundred years, and the
leaves have been falling and all that sort of thing. So that's how that
flavor gets infused.

If there are other California wineries that have this sort of flavor to
their wine, I wouldn't be surprised if their vineyards are also near or
surrounded by these trees.

On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 00:32:03 -0400, Mark Lipton >
wrote:

>Ed Rasimus wrote:
>> On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 12:44:49 -0400, Mark Lipton >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Jon Nadelberg wrote:
>>>
>>>>Ed Rasimus wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I've experienced what you describe, although I admit to a naivete
>>>>>about Cline's location and the surrounding foliage. I don't mind some
>>>>>mint and even a bit of eucalytus might bring out the Koala in me, but
>>>>>this was dill.
>>>>>Armed with the new knowledge about Cline, I'll look for the
>>>>>"Cline-ness" and have Mark to thank for it.
>>>>
>>>>Hey! I was the one who mentioned it first!
>>>
>>>Indeed, in this thread at least, Jon. In honor of the announcement of
>>>the Chemistry Nobel today, I'll engage in a little shameless self-promotion:
>>>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.f...21d53dd6d8495f
>>>
>>>;-)
>>>
>>>Mark Lipton
>>
>>
>> So, am I to conclude that "Cline-ness" or "Clineness" is now
>> copyrighted or trademarked and must be noted in publication? And will
>> that be expanded to Woop-Woopishness?
>
>I am in contact with my attorneys right now on this topic. Ridgeosity is
>also up for grabs, I'm told.
>
>Mark Lipton

Too late, I've already established rights to Ridgeativity as the
definitive term.
Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com