I have pretty good cellar conditions with Eurocave.

Quickly however some of my wine over time cast of sediment on the side of a
bottle. Obviously my Reds and mostly older wines.

That said...do any of you turn your bottles so that the sediment is not on
side of bottle? I never have. Someone suggested that they do that was here
visiting recently.

Any thoughts.

Richard Neidich wrote:
> I have pretty good cellar conditions with Eurocave.
>
> Quickly however some of my wine over time cast of sediment on the side of a
> bottle. Obviously my Reds and mostly older wines.
>
> That said...do any of you turn your bottles so that the sediment is not on
> side of bottle? I never have. Someone suggested that they do that was here
> visiting recently.

The fine particles that make up the sediment are heavier than the wine
and slowly settle if not disturbed. If the bottle is left alone for a
long time, the particles tend to form a crust that sticks to the
bottle. This is an advantage, because it makes the wine easier to pour
when opened without stirring up the sediment so easily. Port is an
extreme example. If vintage port is bought young and allowed to lie in
one position until opened many years later, a rather sticky crust forms
on the side of the bottle that does not get stirred up very easily when
the port is poured. On the other hand if you transport the old port
across the country, the crust gets broken and stirred up in the wine,
and the wine can be very difficult to pour until the fine particles
have a chance to settle out. Why anyone would want the sediment not to
stick to the side of the bottle beats me.

Thanks. That was my thoughts as well. But I was willing to bounce it off
the group.


"cwdjrxyz" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Richard Neidich wrote:
>> I have pretty good cellar conditions with Eurocave.
>>
>> Quickly however some of my wine over time cast of sediment on the side of
>> a
>> bottle. Obviously my Reds and mostly older wines.
>>
>> That said...do any of you turn your bottles so that the sediment is not
>> on
>> side of bottle? I never have. Someone suggested that they do that was
>> here
>> visiting recently.
>
> The fine particles that make up the sediment are heavier than the wine
> and slowly settle if not disturbed. If the bottle is left alone for a
> long time, the particles tend to form a crust that sticks to the
> bottle. This is an advantage, because it makes the wine easier to pour
> when opened without stirring up the sediment so easily. Port is an
> extreme example. If vintage port is bought young and allowed to lie in
> one position until opened many years later, a rather sticky crust forms
> on the side of the bottle that does not get stirred up very easily when
> the port is poured. On the other hand if you transport the old port
> across the country, the crust gets broken and stirred up in the wine,
> and the wine can be very difficult to pour until the fine particles
> have a chance to settle out. Why anyone would want the sediment not to
> stick to the side of the bottle beats me.
>

> Why anyone would want the sediment not to
> stick to the side of the bottle beats me.

If it stays there when I turn the bottle upright to open it, then fine.
But if it's not quite "sticky" enough, I'd rather have the sediment
already on the bottom. This would suggest a slightly neck high recline.

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:
> > Why anyone would want the sediment not to
> > stick to the side of the bottle beats me.
>
> If it stays there when I turn the bottle upright to open it, then fine.
> But if it's not quite "sticky" enough, I'd rather have the sediment
> already on the bottom. This would suggest a slightly neck high recline.

Or you can use a wine basket for decanting and not have to stand the
bottle upright at all. When I use the wine machine, I open the bottle
and put it in the machine the day before I want to draw any. The
machine I use allows the tap tube to be lowered to the position you
wish after flushing out the air with nitrogen through the tap tube
positioned just above the surface of the wine. I place the end of the
tap tube a bit above the bottom of the bottle. When the wine is nearly
gone, I lower the tap tube to just a bit above any sediment. In that
way I can recover more sediment free wine than by pouring by hand.
There are a few exceptions that have very light sediment that is easily
stirred up. One is Tokaji essence. It can take weeks or months for
sediment to settle in this wine after it is shipped. Such wines need to
stand up for a long time before they are opened, and then opened
extremely carefully. I fact some such wines were stored standing up in
very damp cellars, and this did not seem to lead to premature cork
failure. A lot of the old wines have sealing wax capsules, and as long
as the wax does not crack, the condition of the cork is of little
importance. I have seen very old bottles of vintage Madeira where the
wax seal is all that is keeping the wine from spilling on the floor if
it lies down.

A proper wine bottle does not have a round profile through the neck
region. one side is pinched, or pushed in. the purpose of this
indent is to aid in the trapping of sediment. Properly done, this
indent into the center of the profile of the bottle is place opposite
the label, in the process of manufacture. one then has label up for
storage, and pours with a hand covering the label, sediment side down.

On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 22:44:25 GMT, "Richard Neidich"
> wrote:

>I have pretty good cellar conditions with Eurocave.
>
>Quickly however some of my wine over time cast of sediment on the side of a
>bottle. Obviously my Reds and mostly older wines.
>
>That said...do any of you turn your bottles so that the sediment is not on
>side of bottle? I never have. Someone suggested that they do that was here
>visiting recently.
>
>Any thoughts.
>

> Or you can use a wine basket for decanting and not have to stand the
> bottle upright at all. When I use the wine machine, I open the bottle
> and put it in the machine the day before I want to draw any.

I take it "wine basked" and "wine machine" are the same? How do you
open the bottle in the first place? (is it on its side?)

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:
> > Or you can use a wine basket for decanting and not have to stand the
> > bottle upright at all. When I use the wine machine, I open the bottle
> > and put it in the machine the day before I want to draw any.
>
> I take it "wine basked" and "wine machine" are the same? How do you
> open the bottle in the first place? (is it on its side?)

No a wine basket is just what the name says, and holds the bottle on
the side so you just have to tip the basket a bit to pour. The cork is
drawn with the bottle on the side(it holds the neck of the bottle up
just enough so that wine does not pour out when the cork is pulled).
Wine baskets often are used in Europe. In restaurants, on can bring a
just-ordered bottle up from the cellar in one with much less chance of
stirring up sediment than if the bottle has to stand up. Also some
restaurents with "airs" have been known to serve ordinary wine without
sediment in a fancy wine basket to impress customers, who may not know
much about wine, and to justify a higher cost for the wine.

The wine machine is a large cabinet with pressure regulators for
nitrogen, etc. that is connected to a large tank of prepurified
nitrogen. The wine bottles stand upright in it, and air is displaced
out the tap with a large amount of nitrogen before the tap is lowered
into the wine by sliding it down the special stopper that has "O" ring
seals around the tap tube. When a button on the tap is pressed, the
nitrogen under a low regulated pressure allows wine to flow out the tap.

In article > ,
says...
>
>I have pretty good cellar conditions with Eurocave.
>
>Quickly however some of my wine over time cast of sediment on the side of a
>bottle. Obviously my Reds and mostly older wines.
>
>That said...do any of you turn your bottles so that the sediment is not on
>side of bottle? I never have. Someone suggested that they do that was here
>visiting recently.
>
>Any thoughts.

Actually, Richard, I find this to be a positive occurrance. I'll stand the
bottle for a couple of days, to allow the looser sediment to settle in the
bottom, while the "crust" stays pretty much attached to the side. It is then,
USUALLY, easier to decant.

As mentioned elsewhere Port does this, to an extreme. Most VP has a little
white-wash mark on it. I always place this UP, when storing, as it indicates
the position of the bottle, while stored in the lodge. Again, treating these
bottles, as above, makes decanting a bit easier.

For most reds, I store with the label up (works kinda' like the white-wash
mark for me), and leave them alone, until I plan on serving them.

Hunt

Thanks. I do agree with your statement here.

I think the friend that told me otherwise...(and the person that got me
started on the wine trail over 27 years ago)...is indeed wrong.

"Hunt" > wrote in message
...
> In article > ,
> says...
>>
>>I have pretty good cellar conditions with Eurocave.
>>
>>Quickly however some of my wine over time cast of sediment on the side of
>>a
>>bottle. Obviously my Reds and mostly older wines.
>>
>>That said...do any of you turn your bottles so that the sediment is not on
>>side of bottle? I never have. Someone suggested that they do that was
>>here
>>visiting recently.
>>
>>Any thoughts.
>
> Actually, Richard, I find this to be a positive occurrance. I'll stand the
> bottle for a couple of days, to allow the looser sediment to settle in the
> bottom, while the "crust" stays pretty much attached to the side. It is
> then,
> USUALLY, easier to decant.
>
> As mentioned elsewhere Port does this, to an extreme. Most VP has a little
> white-wash mark on it. I always place this UP, when storing, as it
> indicates
> the position of the bottle, while stored in the lodge. Again, treating
> these
> bottles, as above, makes decanting a bit easier.
>
> For most reds, I store with the label up (works kinda' like the white-wash
> mark for me), and leave them alone, until I plan on serving them.
>
> Hunt
>

In article >,
says...
>
>Thanks. I do agree with your statement here.
>
>I think the friend that told me otherwise...(and the person that got me
>started on the wine trail over 27 years ago)...is indeed wrong.
>
>"Hunt" > wrote in message
...
>> In article > ,
>> says...
>>>
>>>I have pretty good cellar conditions with Eurocave.
>>>
>>>Quickly however some of my wine over time cast of sediment on the side of
>>>a
>>>bottle. Obviously my Reds and mostly older wines.
>>>
>>>That said...do any of you turn your bottles so that the sediment is not on
>>>side of bottle? I never have. Someone suggested that they do that was
>>>here
>>>visiting recently.
>>>
>>>Any thoughts.
>>
>> Actually, Richard, I find this to be a positive occurrance. I'll stand the
>> bottle for a couple of days, to allow the looser sediment to settle in the
>> bottom, while the "crust" stays pretty much attached to the side. It is
>> then,
>> USUALLY, easier to decant.
>>
>> As mentioned elsewhere Port does this, to an extreme. Most VP has a little
>> white-wash mark on it. I always place this UP, when storing, as it
>> indicates
>> the position of the bottle, while stored in the lodge. Again, treating
>> these
>> bottles, as above, makes decanting a bit easier.
>>
>> For most reds, I store with the label up (works kinda' like the white-wash
>> mark for me), and leave them alone, until I plan on serving them.
>>
>> Hunt

The only reason, that I can think of, for turning bottles of red, and hence
stirring up the sediment, is if a person appreciates the bitterness and
grittiness that would be imparted to the wine by doing so. Sediment is a
natural occurrance of the aging of red wines. This sediment is bitter, in
taste, and has a powdery grittiness. I feel that it is best separated from the
wine, even at the expense of loosing a bit of the liquid, so as leave most in
the bottle. My personal taste runs toward actually separating the lees from
the wine, by omitting as much as is possible, with the pouring/decanting. Some
like to filter the wine, sediment and all, when pouring, but I still find a
added bitterness in most of these cases. One friend uses unbleached coffee
filters, another a fine silk cloth, but when I do one bottle my way v their
methods, I always like my bottle better - bottle variation? I do not know, but
I'm batting 100%. Some of the filtering techniques leave wine that is closer
to the decanted version, but there is always a hint of off-tastes. The
grittiness might not be there, but the bitterness always is, to a degree.

Again, as with most things wine, a personal preference.

Hunt