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Wine (alt.food.wine) Devoted to the discussion of wine and wine-related topics. A place to read and comment about wines, wine and food matching, storage systems, wine paraphernalia, etc. In general, any topic related to wine is valid fodder for the group. |
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I got very excited to see a restaurant's wine list in a nearby town
where we do our local shopping (about 30 miles away). What is so exciting is that the owner lists the exact wines, the cost per bottle and per glass. Unbelieveable! http://www.obwrestaurant.com/menus/winelist.htm If anyone wishes to comment on any of these wines or his cellar in toto, I'd love to hear it. The owner looks as though he still loves the restaurant business (and says he's tasted thousands of wines -- this is a small town and I know of only one really good restaurant here. Not there there aren't more, I just probably haven't heard of them, nor can afford them. Thanks. Dee |
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On Apr 7, 7:08�pm, "Dee Dee" > wrote:
> I got very excited to see a restaurant's wine list in a nearby town > where we do our local shopping (about 30 miles away). > > What is so exciting is that the owner lists the exact wines, the cost > per bottle and per glass. *Unbelieveable!http://www.obwrestaurant.com/menus/winelist.htm > > If anyone wishes to comment on any of these wines or his cellar in > toto, I'd love to hear it. *The owner *looks as though he still loves > the restaurant business (and says he's tasted thousands of wines -- > this is a small town and I know of only one really good restaurant > here. Not there there aren't more, I just probably haven't heard of > them, nor can afford them. > > Thanks. > Dee The way that the wines are listed is actually the way most restaurants around here (and most other places) list them. The list certainly supports Virginia wines. I found the pricing on the Bordeaux to be a bit strange since one could buy the Leoville Barton for $110 but the Chateau Palmer was $280 when on release they were about $20 apart in price. I just checked and Parker actually rated the Leoville Barton higher than the Palmer. Go figure! |
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Dee Dee wrote:
> I got very excited to see a restaurant's wine list in a nearby town > where we do our local shopping (about 30 miles away). > > What is so exciting is that the owner lists the exact wines, the cost > per bottle and per glass. Unbelieveable! > http://www.obwrestaurant.com/menus/winelist.htm > > If anyone wishes to comment on any of these wines or his cellar in > toto, I'd love to hear it. The owner looks as though he still loves > the restaurant business (and says he's tasted thousands of wines -- > this is a small town and I know of only one really good restaurant > here. Not there there aren't more, I just probably haven't heard of > them, nor can afford them. The Mason SB is one of the best CA examples of the grape (IMO). The Diochon M-a-V is a good producer, so-so year. The Ecard and Geantet-Pansiot Burgs ought to be very nice, but I'd take the Ecard as it'll be readier. Of the Rhones, I'd go for the Mordoree CdR. Vietti is a good producer, though I get the impression that they are fairly "modern" in style. The Phelps Insignia and Dashe Zin are both good wines, but the Insignia is still very young. (I've got Insignias from the '80s still in my cellar). Their selection of Ports, Madeira and Sherry is also very nice. Regarding the whole: their markups look quite reasonable, typically a bit less than 100% over retail. It's a nice list. HTH Mark Lipton -- alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com |
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Dee Dee wrote:
> What is so exciting is that the owner lists the exact wines, the cost > per bottle and per glass. Unbelieveable! > http://www.obwrestaurant.com/menus/winelist.htm At least in the USA it is unusual for a fine dining restaurant to show menu prices let alone wine prices on their website. Here is one of my favorite restaurants and they too have their wines and prices listed. http://www.cottageplace.com/ |
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Mike Tommasi > wrote in news:57rgrpF2dlva1U2
@mid.individual.net: >> > > The best sections appear to be the Rhone and maybe the Sherry. > > I am amazed of the hype that surround the wines from Lustau, specially when they are the equivalent of "negoce" wines. Not bad, but nothing really great. S. |
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On 8 Apr 2007 11:15:13 +0200, Santiago > wrote:
>Mike Tommasi > wrote in news:57rgrpF2dlva1U2 : >>> >> >> The best sections appear to be the Rhone and maybe the Sherry. >> >> >I am amazed of the hype that surround the wines from Lustau, specially when >they are the equivalent of "negoce" wines. Not bad, but nothing really >great. > >S. 1. R Parker reviews lustau quite favorably. 2. the distributor for lustau in the dc metro area(dc md va) is a very hard worker. |
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On Apr 8, 11:23 am, Mike Tommasi > wrote:
> we dont get much choice in France... they are not bad. It's a bit like > somebody telling me Ott is good Bandol... sure ;-) > > More generally, much of the wine on this list was below Lustau level. > Hi, Mike, I agree with your comments, Bandol!!!!! Where in France are you? Judith |
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On Apr 8, 6:24 am, miles > wrote:
> Dee Dee wrote: > > What is so exciting is that the owner lists the exact wines, the cost > > per bottle and per glass. Unbelieveable! > >http://www.obwrestaurant.com/menus/winelist.htm > > At least in the USA it is unusual for a fine dining restaurant to show > menu prices let alone wine prices on their website. > > Here is one of my favorite restaurants and they too have their wines and > prices listed. > > http://www.cottageplace.com/ Wow, I like the menu, I just wish it was in England! I also took a look at the wine list, can you explain why Californian wine is so expensive in the USA? Judith |
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On Apr 7, 7:08�pm, "Dee Dee" > wrote:
> I got very excited to see a restaurant's wine list in a nearby town > where we do our local shopping (about 30 miles away). > > What is so exciting is that the owner lists the exact wines, the cost > per bottle and per glass. *Unbelieveable!http://www.obwrestaurant.com/menus/winelist.htm > > If anyone wishes to comment on any of these wines or his cellar in > toto, I'd love to hear it. *The owner *looks as though he still loves > the restaurant business (and says he's tasted thousands of wines -- > this is a small town and I know of only one really good restaurant > here. Not there there aren't more, I just probably haven't heard of > them, nor can afford them. > > Thanks. > Dee A pretty nice list, with choices over a good spectrum, so lots of matching possiblilites. Prices are pretty good. |
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On Apr 8, 2:41�am, Mike Tommasi > wrote:
> miles wrote: > > Dee Dee wrote: > > >> What is so exciting is that the owner lists the exact wines, the cost > >> per bottle and per glass. *Unbelieveable! > >>http://www.obwrestaurant.com/menus/winelist.htm > > > At least in the USA it is unusual for a fine dining restaurant to show > > menu prices let alone wine prices on their website. > > > Here is one of my favorite restaurants and they too have their wines and > > prices listed. > > >http://www.cottageplace.com/ > > Under France Blush (?!) they have Beringer white zinfandel. > Under Champagne the first entry is a Prosecco. > Reds from Italy are "varietals". > Under Gewurztraminer not a single Alsace wine. > Under Aromatic wines they have a Pinot Grigio from Italy. Not. > > I think this wine list is a mess > > -- > Mike Tommasi - Six Fours, France > email linkhttp://www.tommasi.org/mymail List is a bit of a mess. But Miles should ask if they'll sell takeout, and buy all the '96 Grange at $55 they have (what do you think that really is?). |
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Mike Tommasi wrote:
> Under France Blush (?!) they have Beringer white zinfandel. > Under Champagne the first entry is a Prosecco. > Reds from Italy are "varietals". > Under Gewurztraminer not a single Alsace wine. > Under Aromatic wines they have a Pinot Grigio from Italy. Not. > > I think this wine list is a mess I agree. The wines listed on the website are only a small fraction of what they actually have and poorly organized. I dont think the person who runs their cellar is the same as who did their website! They have one of the most extensive wine lists I've ever seen. It is a very small restaurant, only about 10 tables. They also have classes on wine and cooking and bring in wine makers from all over the world. Too bad their website doesn't do them justice. |
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On Apr 8, 8:32�am, "
> wrote: > On Apr 8, 6:24 am, miles > wrote: > > > Dee Dee wrote: > > > What is so exciting is that the owner lists the exact wines, the cost > > > per bottle and per glass. *Unbelieveable! > > >http://www.obwrestaurant.com/menus/winelist.htm > > > At least in the USA it is unusual for a fine dining restaurant to show > > menu prices let alone wine prices on their website. > > > Here is one of my favorite restaurants and they too have their wines and > > prices listed. > > >http://www.cottageplace.com/ > > Wow, I like the menu, I just wish it was in England! *I also took a > look at the wine list, can you explain why Californian wine is so > expensive in the USA? > > Judith Greed |
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DaleW wrote:
> List is a bit of a mess. But Miles should ask if they'll sell takeout, > and buy all the '96 Grange at $55 they have (what do you think that > really is?). lol, I didn't notice that! I dont think they sell takeout! Darn! |
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On Apr 8, 8:32 am, "
> wrote: I also took a > look at the wine list, can you explain why Californian wine is so > expensive in the USA? > > Judith Hello, Judith, I lived in California for nigh-on 30 years and I never figured it out. Other than people thinking the wines are worth it, I just don't know. I wonder what other reason there is, myself. Dee, Virginia, USA |
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![]() "Dee Dee" > wrote in message oups.com... > On Apr 8, 8:32 am, " > > wrote: > I also took a >> look at the wine list, can you explain why Californian wine is so >> expensive in the USA? >> >> Judith > > Hello, Judith, I lived in California for nigh-on 30 years and I never > figured it out. Other than people thinking the wines are worth it, I > just don't know. > > I wonder what other reason there is, myself. > In the hopes that you haven't seen this yet, here is a link to the article "My $100 Bottle of Wine." It should answer many of these questions. http://www.coffaro.com/BrendansTruth.html pavane |
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On Apr 8, 5:52 pm, Mike Tommasi > wrote:
> wrote: > > On Apr 8, 11:23 am, Mike Tommasi > wrote: > >> we dont get much choice in France... they are not bad. It's a bit like > >> somebody telling me Ott is good Bandol... sure ;-) > > >> More generally, much of the wine on this list was below Lustau level. > > > Hi, Mike, I agree with your comments, Bandol!!!!! > > > Where in France are you? > > Bandol... > > -- > Mike Tommasi - Six Fours, France > email linkhttp://www.tommasi.org/mymail We have a maison secondiare in the Massif Central although a lovely wild area, the wine leave a little to be deisred. St. Pourcain is o.k. but I don't know of anything outstanding there, do you? Judith |
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On Apr 8, 5:20 pm, "pavane" > wrote:
> "Dee Dee" > wrote in message > > oups.com... > > > On Apr 8, 8:32 am, " > > > wrote: > > I also took a > >> look at the wine list, can you explain why Californian wine is so > >> expensive in the USA? > > >> Judith > > > Hello, Judith, I lived in California for nigh-on 30 years and I never > > figured it out. Other than people thinking the wines are worth it, I > > just don't know. > > > I wonder what other reason there is, myself. > > In the hopes that you haven't seen this yet, here is a > link to the article "My $100 Bottle of Wine." It should > answer many of these questions.http://www.coffaro.com/BrendansTruth.html > > pavane Hi Bi!, MIles, Dee Dee and Pavane, we have very high taxation in England on wines and spirits (and tobacco). For example I would pay 6 euros for an ordinary bottle of wine in France and in England for the same thing I would pay around £12-15. For oridnary plonk in France, I would pay 2-3 euros a bottle and this would retail in England for £8-9. Of course we are not a wine growing country and so we have to pay to import it. On the many times I have visited the USA and bought Californian wine, I have ben astonished that it is the same price or even a little more than in England!!!! It doesn't make sense. Judith |
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gerald > wrote in
: > > > 1. R Parker reviews lustau quite favorably. > > 2. the distributor for lustau in the dc metro area(dc md va) is a > very hard worker. I am aware of the Parker reviews and understand that not all the finos or manzanillas get distributed abroad. But really, many winelists out of Spain have Lustau as their Sherry. I have just read a Parker review of a Lustau wine and I read that Lustaus are in the portfolio of Christopher Cannan (Europvin), a really big negociant from Bordeaux, with interests in many countries, actually. But, then, nothing comparable to Valdespino Inocente (or the outstanding "saca" that has been called "Fino Macharnudo Alto") or "Manzanilla Las Cañas" which are the real products, even if they are SO difficult to find. S. |
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Dee Dee wrote:
> Hello, Judith, I lived in California for nigh-on 30 years and I never > figured it out. Other than people thinking the wines are worth it, I > just don't know. > > I wonder what other reason there is, myself. Why would a winery sell a wine for $10 when they are selling out at $30? I find the better wines at the smaller wineries. They sell everything they make at rather high prices. Often they come close to selling out to wine club members who buy futures before the wine is even bottled. |
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On Apr 8, 1:31 pm, "
> wrote: > > Of course we are not a wine growing country and so we have to pay to > import it. On the many times I have visited the USA and bought > Californian wine, I have ben astonished that it is the same price or > even a little more than in England!!!! It doesn't make sense. > looked up Costco (which sell a huge number of CA wines - even here on the east coast where I live in Virginia - to see if they sell in the U.K. One place: United Kingdom Region 213 Hartspring Lane Watford, Hertfordshire England, UK WD2 8JS Regarding the Costco prices of CA wine, I often wonder how 'any goods' can be the same with Costco regardless whether it is in a high economy area, vs. a low economy area here in the U.S. It would be interesting to know whether the cost of the same CA wine is the same in U.K. |
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miles > wrote in :
> > Supply, demand, income levels and the fact that restaurant prices are > typically 2 to 3 times what the price would be from a wine store. Do > restaurants in Europe have such markup? In Spain, typical markup is 100% over wholesale price. Then add VAT. For example, today I had a nice lunch at a new restaurant with an interesting but small winelist (I hate huge winelists) and paid 12 euros + 7% VAT for a bottle of Baltasar Gracián Viñas Viejas 2004, which is a wine comparable to Las Rocas de San Alejandro Old Vines. Friday I had lunch at a One Michelin Starred restaurant and had a bottle of Ernst Burn Clos St. Imer La Chapelle 2002 for 40 euros + 7% VAT. In both cases, margin is about 100% over estimated wholesale price (which is usually 15%-20% lower than retail). And they manage to use great wineglasses (Schott in the first case, for an inexpensive wine, Riedel in the second case). S. |
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On Apr 8, 8:32 pm, "Dee Dee" > wrote:
> On Apr 8, 1:31 pm, " > > > wrote: > > > Of course we are not a wine growing country and so we have to pay to > > import it. On the many times I have visited the USA and bought > > Californian wine, I have ben astonished that it is the same price or > > even a little more than in England!!!! It doesn't make sense. > > looked up Costco (which sell a huge number of CA wines - even here on > the east coast where I live in Virginia - to see if they sell in the > U.K. One place: > > United Kingdom Region > 213 Hartspring Lane > Watford, Hertfordshire > England, UK WD2 8JS > > Regarding the Costco prices of CA wine, I often wonder how 'any goods' > can be the same with Costco regardless whether it is in a high > economy area, vs. a low economy area here in the U.S. > > It would be interesting to know whether the cost of the same CA wine > is the same in U.K. We have a Costco about 100 miles from us but it is a sort of warehouse where you have to be a member to shop and you have to buy in bulk and one also has to pay a hefy subscription annually to join! Judith |
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On Apr 8, 7:24 pm, miles > wrote:
> Dee Dee wrote: > > Hello, Judith, I lived in California for nigh-on 30 years and I never > > figured it out. Other than people thinking the wines are worth it, I > > just don't know. > > > I wonder what other reason there is, myself. > > Why would a winery sell a wine for $10 when they are selling out at $30? > I find the better wines at the smaller wineries. They sell everything > they make at rather high prices. Often they come close to selling out > to wine club members who buy futures before the wine is even bottled. Obviously it is as a poster said earlier, supply and demand. Now I am off to bed as I have an early flight in the morning. Judith |
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Santiago wrote:
> In Spain, typical markup is 100% over wholesale price. In the USA restaurants sell wines at 200-300% over RETAIL prices!! Stores such as Costco sell well below the typical retail prices. > Then add VAT. For > example The USA typically has 8% sales tax on goods but it varies by city and state. Theres also a tax added to the price of a bottle of wine but I'm not sure what that amount is. It's based on volume and alcohol content. |
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miles wrote:
> wrote: >> >> We have a Costco about 100 miles from us but it is a sort of warehouse >> where you have to be a member to shop and you have to buy in bulk and >> one also has to pay a hefy subscription annually to join! > > It's $50 a year to be a member. 100 gets you an executive membership the perk? you get back .01 of your purchases in a rebate check at the end of the year. We have made money on it every year. Regular customers will always get at least the difference. |
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On 8 Apr 2007 13:11:12 -0700, "
> wrote: >We have a Costco about 100 miles from us but it is a sort of warehouse >where you have to be a member to shop and you have to buy in bulk and >one also has to pay a hefy subscription annually to join! Some goods are only sold in large packets, but I can assure you that if you so wish you could pop into a UK CostCo and buy a single bottle of wine. Whenever I have compared prices they are very competitive too. Hardly worth a 200mile round trip, but if you were closer I would recommend checking them out. -- Steve Slatcher http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher |
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On Apr 8, 4:11 pm, "
> wrote: > On Apr 8, 8:32 pm, "Dee Dee" > wrote: > > > > > > > On Apr 8, 1:31 pm, " > > > > wrote: > > > > Of course we are not a wine growing country and so we have to pay to > > > import it. On the many times I have visited the USA and bought > > > Californian wine, I have ben astonished that it is the same price or > > > even a little more than in England!!!! It doesn't make sense. > > > looked up Costco (which sell a huge number of CA wines - even here on > > the east coast where I live in Virginia - to see if they sell in the > > U.K. One place: > > > United Kingdom Region > > 213 Hartspring Lane > > Watford, Hertfordshire > > England, UK WD2 8JS > > > Regarding the Costco prices of CA wine, I often wonder how 'any goods' > > can be the same with Costco regardless whether it is in a high > > economy area, vs. a low economy area here in the U.S. > > > It would be interesting to know whether the cost of the same CA wine > > is the same in U.K. > > We have a Costco about 100 miles from us but it is a sort of warehouse > where you have to be a member to shop and you have to buy in bulk and > one also has to pay a hefy subscription annually to join! > As far as I know, Costco's all the same. One does buy a lot of things bulk, but NOT TV's, computers, clothing, beding & linens, exercise equipment, furniture, wine, books, pots & pans (except in sets) prescriptions, optical (glasses) CD/DVD, clothing, etc. These things are by the item, not by bulk. We pay $100 for a membership with which 2% back pays us back the membership + several hundred dollars in excess of that membership. There are two other large warehouse membership shopping, and we belong to another one also. We save thousands of dollars each year. Membership is a trifle; 100 miles is not a trifle for some. And, back on topic, perhaps Costco doesn't sell California wines or any wines in your country. In our state (commonwealth), Virginia, they sell wine, but in the other states we travel through to visit family, none carry wine. Dee Dee |
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On Apr 8, 4:50 pm, Steve Slatcher > wrote:
> On 8 Apr 2007 13:11:12 -0700, " > > > wrote: > >We have a Costco about 100 miles from us but it is a sort of warehouse > >where you have to be a member to shop and you have to buy in bulk and > >one also has to pay a hefy subscription annually to join! > > Some goods are only sold in large packets, but I can assure you that > if you so wish you could pop into a UK CostCo and buy a single bottle > of wine. Whenever I have compared prices they are very competitive > too. Hardly worth a 200mile round trip, but if you were closer I > would recommend checking them out. > > -- > Steve Slatcherhttp://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher 100 miles in the UK must seem like a long way? We don't do it often, but our real-big-time shopping. We always check in at the Costco's along the way as some of them will carry different goods depending on the ethnicity of the area; i.e., when we visit Connecticut, there are always jars of goodie Italian things; near to the DC area, one sees more Asian type foods. And typically in VA, different Costco's will sell some different wines. Don't know why. Dee |
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Dee Dee wrote:
> And typically in VA, different Costco's will sell some different > wines. Don't know why. > Dee That topic has arisen here before. It seems that each Costco's manager has a lot of discretion over what wines his store will stock. So, Costcos that serve more prosperous communities might have more expensive wines, but Costcos that have a manager who knows something about wine will probably have the most interesting deals. Mark Lipton -- alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com |
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Dee Dee wrote:
> And, back on topic, perhaps Costco doesn't sell California wines or > any wines in your country. In our state (commonwealth), Virginia, > they sell wine, but in the other states we travel through to visit > family, none carry wine. Thats interesting. Every Costco I've been to in Arizona, California or Nevada has had a good selection of wines. |
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On 8 Apr 2007 15:45:55 -0700
"Dee Dee" > wrote: > 100 miles in the UK must seem like a long way? We don't do it often, I believe gas in the UK is comparable to France. About 1.30 EU/liter -> 4.90 EU/gallon -> $6.50 US/gallon. That'll make you think twice before driving 200 miles for groceries! -E -- Emery Davis You can reply to ecom by removing the well known companies Questions about wine? Visit http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com |
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miles wrote:
> Dee Dee wrote: > >> And, back on topic, perhaps Costco doesn't sell California wines or >> any wines in your country. In our state (commonwealth), Virginia, >> they sell wine, but in the other states we travel through to visit >> family, none carry wine. > > Thats interesting. Every Costco I've been to in Arizona, California > or Nevada has had a good selection of wines. What do you mean by "good selection"? I think most people would interpret that term as rmeaning a *large* selection, but my experience has generally been that the selection has been small, but interesting and well-chosen. -- Ken Blake Please reply to the newsgroup |
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On Apr 8, 7:00 pm, miles > wrote:
> Dee Dee wrote: > > And, back on topic, perhaps Costco doesn't sell California wines or > > any wines in your country. In our state (commonwealth), Virginia, > > they sell wine, but in the other states we travel through to visit > > family, none carry wine. > > Thats interesting. Every Costco I've been to in Arizona, California or > Nevada has had a good selection of wines. I didn't say that they didn't have a good selection of wines. Dee |
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Everyone here probably knows that Costco is the largest purchaser in the
world of wine. In the USA they have regional buying offices. In the southeast region it is in Atlanta and the buyer does a great job. In my case I have a working relationship with Costco (not for wine) and I can tell you virtually all buying decisions on wine are done at their HQ and then the regional buyer has some latitude. Little discretion at store level. They have a demographic profile called traits for each store and they know what fits based upon that. It is a very sophisticated buying technique. They know which stores get expanded departments for hispanic, asian etc. I think they run an incredible operation. It really would be hard for retailers to compete in price as they offer a limited selection of wines that are perceived fast sellers. Club stores make their real money on memberships. They do not charge much for markups. "miles" > wrote in message ... > Dee Dee wrote: > >> And, back on topic, perhaps Costco doesn't sell California wines or >> any wines in your country. In our state (commonwealth), Virginia, >> they sell wine, but in the other states we travel through to visit >> family, none carry wine. > > Thats interesting. Every Costco I've been to in Arizona, California or > Nevada has had a good selection of wines. |
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Ken Blake wrote:
> What do you mean by "good selection"? I think most people would interpret > that term as rmeaning a *large* selection, but my experience has generally > been that the selection has been small, but interesting and well-chosen. I mean fairly large with low end to high end wines. Some Costco's do have better selections than others but all of them have been good. |
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Dee Dee wrote:
> On Apr 8, 7:00 pm, miles > wrote: >> Dee Dee wrote: >>> And, back on topic, perhaps Costco doesn't sell California wines or >>> any wines in your country. In our state (commonwealth), Virginia, >>> they sell wine, but in the other states we travel through to visit >>> family, none carry wine. >> Thats interesting. Every Costco I've been to in Arizona, California or >> Nevada has had a good selection of wines. > > I didn't say that they didn't have a good selection of wines. > Dee You mentioned some don't carry wine. I hadn't experieced that at the Costco's in the southwest where they all carry wine. |
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Richard Neidich wrote:
> In my case I have a working relationship with Costco (not for wine) and I > can tell you virtually all buying decisions on wine are done at their HQ and > then the regional buyer has some latitude. Little discretion at store > level. Thats interesting. In some Costco's here they have a full time wine knowledgeable person helping people with their selections. That person has told me they handle the ordering and selection of wines. It might be that they have to work off a list from HQ, I dont know. |
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