The Clos Du Val Napa Valley Reserve Cabernet Sauvignon 1978, 13.3%
alcohol, was properly stored since release. The fill was high, and the
cork was still very good and firm.

This wine likely is at the peak, but it could easily last 10 or more
years before drying out too much. The color is still quite deep with
only a little age showing around the rim. It is a fairly typical
classic Napa in character. It has very intense cassis and other dark
fruit, an a touch of the typical Napa herbal character. There is a bit
of mixed spice. The extract is high, but not overblown. There is
enough acid. The medium tannins are now well resolved. The oak is
under control. The aftertaste is very long. It is not hot as so many
70s California wines were, perhaps because of the 13.3% alcohol
content rather than 16% or more you sometimes found in the 70s. It is
a step up from the 1974 regular, which still is a very good wine. It
must be near the top of 1970s California CS at the present time.

In article . com>,
cwdjrxyz > wrote:

> The Clos Du Val Napa Valley Reserve Cabernet Sauvignon 1978, 13.3%
> alcohol, was properly stored since release. The fill was high, and the
> cork was still very good and firm.
>
> This wine likely is at the peak, but it could easily last 10 or more
> years before drying out too much. The color is still quite deep with
> only a little age showing around the rim. It is a fairly typical
> classic Napa in character. It has very intense cassis and other dark
> fruit, an a touch of the typical Napa herbal character. There is a bit
> of mixed spice. The extract is high, but not overblown. There is
> enough acid. The medium tannins are now well resolved. The oak is
> under control. The aftertaste is very long. It is not hot as so many
> 70s California wines were, perhaps because of the 13.3% alcohol
> content rather than 16% or more you sometimes found in the 70s. It is
> a step up from the 1974 regular, which still is a very good wine. It
> must be near the top of 1970s California CS at the present time.

Nice tasting notes. I haven't had this wine in 10 years but my notes
show it to be one of the better '78 Cabs from CA.

cwdjrxyz wrote:
> The Clos Du Val Napa Valley Reserve Cabernet Sauvignon 1978, 13.3%

Wow! Thanks for the note. I had this wine in a group tasting back in
'82 or so. At that time, I was less impressed with it than some of the
other wines present ('77 Conn Creek Lot 2, '78 Mondavi Reserve, '78
Caymus Estate, '78 Ch. Montelena). Alas, this was from a time when I
didn't take notes, so I can't be any more specific, but suffice it to
say that my tastes have changed since that time and the wines have, too!
I have had the '78 Montelena not so long ago, and it was still
amazingly youthful and primary.

Mark Lipton


--
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On Jun 18, 10:52 am, Mark Lipton > wrote:
> cwdjrxyz wrote:
> > The Clos Du Val Napa Valley Reserve Cabernet Sauvignon 1978, 13.3%
>
> Wow! Thanks for the note. I had this wine in a group tasting back in
> '82 or so. At that time, I was less impressed with it than some of the
> other wines present ('77 Conn Creek Lot 2, '78 Mondavi Reserve, '78
> Caymus Estate, '78 Ch. Montelena). Alas, this was from a time when I
> didn't take notes, so I can't be any more specific, but suffice it to
> say that my tastes have changed since that time and the wines have, too!
> I have had the '78 Montelena not so long ago, and it was still
> amazingly youthful and primary.

I still have a bottle or two of The Robert Mondavi Reserve 1978. Other
1978s include a very few bottles of Freemark Abbey Bosche, BV Private
Reserve, Jordan, Ridge York Creek, Burgess Napa, and Joseph Phelps
Insignia. It has been some time since I tasted most of these, but I at
least thought them good enough in the past to keep a bottle or two of
each to see how they would hold up with extended age. I likely will
taste most of these within the next year or so and report here when I
do.

My experience with Clos Du Val from the 1970s is that it is was not
nearly as flashy as some when young. Better examples often seem to be
rather slow to develop, often at about the rate of a very good,
classic style red Bordeaux. It may have changed in more recent
vintages, but based on what they produced in the 1970s, it did not
seem a good choice for buying the most recent release and opening it
at once - especially the reserve. There was a lot of hype in the 1970s
about the winemaker who came from a family that had a member who
worked at Chateau Lafite. No one is likely to confuse the wine I
tasted with Lafite. It is classic Napa and has more of the weight of a
Mouton rather than a Lafite. Also the 1970s were not the best years
for Lafite, which has improved greatly in more recent years.

"cwdjrxyz" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> I still have a bottle or two of The Robert Mondavi Reserve 1978. Other
> 1978s include a very few bottles of Freemark Abbey Bosche, BV Private
> Reserve, Jordan, Ridge York Creek, Burgess Napa, and Joseph Phelps
> Insignia. It has been some time since I tasted most of these, but I at
> least thought them good enough in the past to keep a bottle or two of
> each to see how they would hold up with extended age. I likely will
> taste most of these within the next year or so and report here when I
> do.
>
That serves to jog my memory. I have a few 78 CA Cabs of my own that
need looking into. That would include BV (PR and Rutherford), Caymus
(just the Estate), Diamond Creek (Gravelly and Volcanic), Ridge Monte
Bello, and Stag's Leap (not Cask 23). I will also try to report here.
Jim



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Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

In article >,
"Jim Mehl" > wrote:

> "cwdjrxyz" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> >
> > I still have a bottle or two of The Robert Mondavi Reserve 1978. Other
> > 1978s include a very few bottles of Freemark Abbey Bosche, BV Private
> > Reserve, Jordan, Ridge York Creek, Burgess Napa, and Joseph Phelps
> > Insignia. It has been some time since I tasted most of these, but I at
> > least thought them good enough in the past to keep a bottle or two of
> > each to see how they would hold up with extended age. I likely will
> > taste most of these within the next year or so and report here when I
> > do.
> >
> That serves to jog my memory. I have a few 78 CA Cabs of my own that
> need looking into. That would include BV (PR and Rutherford), Caymus
> (just the Estate), Diamond Creek (Gravelly and Volcanic), Ridge Monte
> Bello, and Stag's Leap (not Cask 23). I will also try to report here.
> Jim

Still have 2 bottles of '78 Monte Bello and a Caymus that have not yet
been opened. Tempted to open the Caymus this week. I know the Monte
Bello is still great because I had one bottle in January. Hard to parse
out one case over 29 years.

"Lawrence Leichtman" > wrote in message
...
>
> Still have 2 bottles of '78 Monte Bello and a Caymus that have not yet
> been opened. Tempted to open the Caymus this week. I know the Monte
> Bello is still great because I had one bottle in January. Hard to parse
> out one case over 29 years.

I would love to hear how you think the Caymus is doing. I still have
4 bottles. I have 6 of the Monte Bello, but like you I am not too
worried about it. My experience has been that Monte Bello's last
a VERY long time.
Jim



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

In article >,
"Jim Mehl" > wrote:

> "Lawrence Leichtman" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Still have 2 bottles of '78 Monte Bello and a Caymus that have not yet
> > been opened. Tempted to open the Caymus this week. I know the Monte
> > Bello is still great because I had one bottle in January. Hard to parse
> > out one case over 29 years.
>
> I would love to hear how you think the Caymus is doing. I still have
> 4 bottles. I have 6 of the Monte Bello, but like you I am not too
> worried about it. My experience has been that Monte Bello's last
> a VERY long time.
> Jim

The Caymus will be opened at our wine group's July tasting night the
theme is late '70's California Cabs. Also, bringing a Dunn 1978.

You guys are making me intensely jealous. Reading about those late
70's vintages from Conn Creek, To Kalon, Monte Bello, etc... Great
vineyards, great wines. Haven't had any of those late 70's wines for
many years now. Boo hoo .....

--
I'm using an evaluation license of nemo since 33 days.
You should really try it!
http://www.malcom-mac.com/nemo

Lawrence Leichtman wrote:
> In article >,

> The Caymus will be opened at our wine group's July tasting night the
> theme is late '70's California Cabs. Also, bringing a Dunn 1978.

That should make for an amusing comparison since IIRC Randy Dunn made
both wines that year.

Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com

In article >,
AxisOfBeagles > wrote:

> You guys are making me intensely jealous. Reading about those late
> 70's vintages from Conn Creek, To Kalon, Monte Bello, etc... Great
> vineyards, great wines. Haven't had any of those late 70's wines for
> many years now. Boo hoo .....

It just a matter of buying them new and sitting tight for many years.
You can start now and you will have them. They don't have to be stored
perfectly just the best least variable cool area. I did not have any
type of real cellaring just a coolish closet that didn't change
temperature much all year long. 99% of the wines I stored that way are
still great after nearly 30 years in storage. It also requires infinite
patience as the temptation is to open them way to soon. For example, I
opened a Dunn Howell Mountain after only 10 years after opening the
first bottle. I will never make that mistake again as they are too
tannic to drink for 15 years +. So patience is the way to have old
bottles. And if you think a wine is going to be a good ager buy at least
3. This obviously precludes most 1st growth Bordeaux's but maybe 2nd or
down. Remember, if it is %125-150 now in 10-15 years when is wonderful
it may cost $500+ to buy the same bottle.

In article >,
Mark Lipton > wrote:

> Lawrence Leichtman wrote:
> > In article >,
>
> > The Caymus will be opened at our wine group's July tasting night the
> > theme is late '70's California Cabs. Also, bringing a Dunn 1978.
>
> That should make for an amusing comparison since IIRC Randy Dunn made
> both wines that year.
>
> Mark Lipton

Yes same wine maker different fruit.

Too true - unfortunately, I don't collect CA Cabs / blends in my
cellar. I always ahve a few on hand for drinking, but my collecting is
limited to Bordeaux. In fact, off to pick up some of my '04s today
which have started to arrive.

In article
>Lawrence
Leichtman > wrote:



> It just a matter of buying them new and sitting tight for many
> years. You can start now and you will have them. They don't have to
> be stored perfectly just the best least variable cool area. I did not
> have any type of real cellaring just a coolish closet that didn't
> change temperature much all year long. 99% of the wines I stored that
> way are still great after nearly 30 years in storage. It also
> requires infinite patience as the temptation is to open them way to
> soon. For example, I opened a Dunn Howell Mountain after only 10
> years after opening the first bottle. I will never make that mistake
> again as they are too tannic to drink for 15 years +. So patience is
> the way to have old bottles. And if you think a wine is going to be a
> good ager buy at least 3. This obviously precludes most 1st growth
> Bordeaux's but maybe 2nd or down. Remember, if it is %125-150 now in
> 10-15 years when is wonderful it may cost $500+ to buy the same
> bottle.
>

--
I'm using an evaluation license of nemo since 33 days.
You should really try it!
http://www.malcom-mac.com/nemo

On Jun 28, 10:56?am, Lawrence Leichtman > wrote:
> In article >,
>
> AxisOfBeagles > wrote:
> > You guys are making me intensely jealous. Reading about those late
> > 70's vintages from Conn Creek, To Kalon, Monte Bello, etc... Great
> > vineyards, great wines. Haven't had any of those late 70's wines for
> > many years now. Boo hoo .....
>
> It just a matter of buying them new and sitting tight for many years.
> You can start now and you will have them. They don't have to be stored
> perfectly just the best least variable cool area. I did not have any
> type of real cellaring just a coolish closet that didn't change
> temperature much all year long. 99% of the wines I stored that way are
> still great after nearly 30 years in storage. It also requires infinite
> patience as the temptation is to open them way to soon. For example, I
> opened a Dunn Howell Mountain after only 10 years after opening the
> first bottle. I will never make that mistake again as they are too
> tannic to drink for 15 years +. So patience is the way to have old
> bottles. And if you think a wine is going to be a good ager buy at least
> 3. This obviously precludes most 1st growth Bordeaux's but maybe 2nd or
> down. Remember, if it is %125-150 now in 10-15 years when is wonderful
> it may cost $500+ to buy the same bottle.

I have a few bottles of 1985 Dunn Howell Mountain Cab that I will
never live long enough to open. The last bottle I opened about three
years ago hadn't begun to shed any tannin and won't be ready to drink
much before 2050.....

"Bi!!" in oups.com :
>
> I have a few bottles of 1985 Dunn Howell Mountain Cab that I will never
> live long enough to open. ...

Sounds like Ridge Monte Bello.

Fans of that wine have been known, on reaching a certain age, to renounce
buying any more of it, on actuarial grounds.

On Jun 28, 2:07?pm, "Max Hauser" > wrote:
> "Bi!!" groups.com:
>
>
>
> > I have a few bottles of 1985 Dunn Howell Mountain Cab that I will never
> > live long enough to open. ...
>
> Sounds like Ridge Monte Bello.
>
> Fans of that wine have been known, on reaching a certain age, to renounce
> buying any more of it, on actuarial grounds.

At age 55 I've started to pare back on wines that I know won't be
ready to drink until I'm 80 or older. I hope to still be here
enjoying wine but I am a realist.

Max Hauser wrote:

> Sounds like Ridge Monte Bello.
>
> Fans of that wine have been known, on reaching a certain age, to renounce
> buying any more of it, on actuarial grounds.

Max,
What is your take on those who say that MB has undergone a stylistic
change since '90? I don't have enough first-hand experience to say one
way or another, but people like you and Claude K. are well positioned
(IMO) to weigh in on this issue.

Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com

In article .com>,
Bi!! > wrote:

> On Jun 28, 2:07?pm, "Max Hauser" > wrote:
> > "Bi!!" groups.com:
> >
> >
> >
> > > I have a few bottles of 1985 Dunn Howell Mountain Cab that I will never
> > > live long enough to open. ...
> >
> > Sounds like Ridge Monte Bello.
> >
> > Fans of that wine have been known, on reaching a certain age, to renounce
> > buying any more of it, on actuarial grounds.
>
> At age 55 I've started to pare back on wines that I know won't be
> ready to drink until I'm 80 or older. I hope to still be here
> enjoying wine but I am a realist.

I'm 60 and feel the same way. I'm not enthusiastic about leaving great
wines to my kids who don't really appreciate them.

"Mark Lipton" in :
> Max Hauser wrote:
>
>> Sounds like Ridge Monte Bello.
>>
>> Fans of that wine have been known, on reaching a certain
>> age, to renounce buying any more of it, on actuarial grounds.
>
> Max,
> What is your take on those who say that MB has undergone a stylistic
> change since '90? I don't have enough first-hand experience to say one
> way or another, but people like you and Claude K. are well positioned
> (IMO) to weigh in on this issue.
>
> Mark Lipton

Ask me in 2015 when the first ones may be ready to drink. ;-)

I don't know, Mark -- in two senses: First I have not noticed a conspicuous
change, second I have not heard the comments you allude to. (References?)

I've bought that wine on and off since the '80 vintage but I don't taste it
often enough to say offhand. One of the tasting groups has some deeply
involved members who have followed this wine a very long time. PD
graciously joins sometimes if we are tasting that wine, and comments on his
wines. All blind tastings, of course. PD catches the vintage at once, at a
sniff, but then he knows these wines better than anyone else. (He usually
comments a bit on the features of the vintage, at that point.) I've posted
results of one or more of these tastings, but I don't recall if they spanned
before and after 1990. Certainly, some of the early 1990s MBs drink
impressively now. Always, lots of concentration, lots of wood ... Claude
K. is in another tasting group, and I don't recall whether he follows that
wine -- mostly we taste and talk about Burgundies.

Again, I'm interested in more info about the style assertion (here or by
email).