I have seen posted here that 56 deg F is the proper cellaring
temperature, and I wonder if anyone can offer a citation for such, or
knows of any study done to show what is the proper temp and humidity
other than "common knowledge." Further, has there been any studies as
to how maturing is effected by a few degrees warmer or cooler? In my
own case, I have an uncontrolled basement room which stays about 55 deg
in the winter, and 65 in the summer. And as I am advancing in age (as
which of us isn't?) I am finding myself wondering how I can push
maturity without damaging the poor babies...

Ronin > writes:

> I have seen posted here that 56 deg F is the proper cellaring
> temperature, and I wonder if anyone can offer a citation for such, or
> knows of any study done to show what is the proper temp and humidity
> other than "common knowledge." Further, has there been any studies as
> to how maturing is effected by a few degrees warmer or cooler? In my
> own case, I have an uncontrolled basement room which stays about 55
> deg in the winter, and 65 in the summer. And as I am advancing in age
> (as which of us isn't?) I am finding myself wondering how I can push
> maturity without damaging the poor babies...

Good question, and I'd love to hear what others have to say.

The only controlled experiments I've read about have been done by
this guy (Chris Miley):

http://www.winecellarsecrets.com/win...emperature.htm

I don't cellar much wine for more than about 5 years or so. My cellar
has conditions similar to those you describe (55 in winter, warming to
65 in summer).

I haven't noticed any problems, but I haven't done good controlled
experiments.

The conventional wisdom (which you probably already know) seems to be:
aging at 55 is slow, but leads to greater complexity. Higher
temperatures lead to more rapid aging but with less complexity.
Frequent temperature changes are bad.

Miley tested the last thing in the edition of his book that I read.

On Sep 21, 12:22 pm, Ronin > wrote:
> I have seen posted here that 56 deg F is the proper cellaring
> temperature, and I wonder if anyone can offer a citation for such, or
> knows of any study done to show what is the proper temp and humidity
> other than "common knowledge." Further, has there been any studies as
> to how maturing is effected by a few degrees warmer or cooler? In my
> own case, I have an uncontrolled basement room which stays about 55 deg
> in the winter, and 65 in the summer. And as I am advancing in age (as
> which of us isn't?) I am finding myself wondering how I can push
> maturity without damaging the poor babies...

If you want them to mature quicker, turn the heat up to 85. ;-)

On 2008-09-21 10:09:00 -0700, Mark Slater > said:

> On Sep 21, 12:22 pm, Ronin > wrote:
>> I have seen posted here that 56 deg F is the proper cellaring
>> temperature, and I wonder if anyone can offer a citation for such, or
>> knows of any study done to show what is the proper temp and humidity
>> other than "common knowledge." Further, has there been any studies as
>> to how maturing is effected by a few degrees warmer or cooler? In my
>> own case, I have an uncontrolled basement room which stays about 55 deg
>> in the winter, and 65 in the summer. And as I am advancing in age (as
>> which of us isn't?) I am finding myself wondering how I can push
>> maturity without damaging the poor babies...
>
> If you want them to mature quicker, turn the heat up to 85. ;-)

I tried putting them in a pot and simmering them, but the results were
not impressive...

On 2008-09-21 10:08:00 -0700, Doug Anderson
> said:

> Ronin > writes:
>
>> I have seen posted here that 56 deg F is the proper cellaring
>> temperature, and I wonder if anyone can offer a citation for such, or
>> knows of any study done to show what is the proper temp and humidity
>> other than "common knowledge." Further, has there been any studies as
>> to how maturing is effected by a few degrees warmer or cooler? In my
>> own case, I have an uncontrolled basement room which stays about 55
>> deg in the winter, and 65 in the summer. And as I am advancing in age
>> (as which of us isn't?) I am finding myself wondering how I can push
>> maturity without damaging the poor babies...
>
> Good question, and I'd love to hear what others have to say.
>
> The only controlled experiments I've read about have been done by
> this guy (Chris Miley):
>
> http://www.winecellarsecrets.com/win...emperature.htm
>
>

Another question brought up by this interesting website - he notes that
the optimum humidity is 70%, but if I raise my orchid room above 60%,
the room turns black with mildew. Now, that is admitedly a much warmer
clime, but I knew a man back East (US) who had a temp/humidity
controlled above ground wine cellar and the room was dripping with
water, and the paper cases were falling apart and some damn fine wine
was in very ugly bottles - all spotted with red and black mold/mildew.
Does anyone else put up with those conditions??

"Ronin" > skrev i melding
...
>I have seen posted here that 56 deg F is the proper cellaring temperature,
>and I wonder if anyone can offer a citation for such, or knows of any study
>done to show what is the proper temp and humidity other than "common
>knowledge." Further, has there been any studies as to how maturing is
>effected by a few degrees warmer or cooler? In my own case, I have an
>uncontrolled basement room which stays about 55 deg in the winter, and 65
>in the summer. And as I am advancing in age (as which of us isn't?) I am
>finding myself wondering how I can push maturity without damaging the poor
>babies...
>
56? What I've heard is 50F...
There is no argument - lower temperatu slower development, higher means
faster.
Too fast normally means an unbalanced result and should be avoided. A very
low temperature means you'll have to wait very long (the fabled stash of
great wines at Glamis castle, Scotland, discovered some time in the 60-ies
or 70-ies had survived a century at 41F...)
My basement is 45 in winter and 65 in late summer and seems to be fine. The
important thing is to avoid daily shifts in temperature - a slow rise and
fall through the year seems to be quite acceptable.
my 0.02EUR
Anders

Ronin > writes:

> On 2008-09-21 10:08:00 -0700, Doug Anderson
> > said:
>
> > Ronin > writes:
> >
> >> I have seen posted here that 56 deg F is the proper cellaring
> >> temperature, and I wonder if anyone can offer a citation for such, or
> >> knows of any study done to show what is the proper temp and humidity
> >> other than "common knowledge." Further, has there been any studies as
> >> to how maturing is effected by a few degrees warmer or cooler? In my
> >> own case, I have an uncontrolled basement room which stays about 55
> >> deg in the winter, and 65 in the summer. And as I am advancing in age
> >> (as which of us isn't?) I am finding myself wondering how I can push
> >> maturity without damaging the poor babies...
> > Good question, and I'd love to hear what others have to say.
> > The only controlled experiments I've read about have been done by
> > this guy (Chris Miley):
> > http://www.winecellarsecrets.com/win...emperature.htm
> >
>
> Another question brought up by this interesting website - he notes
> that the optimum humidity is 70%, but if I raise my orchid room above
> 60%, the room turns black with mildew. Now, that is admitedly a much
> warmer clime, but I knew a man back East (US) who had a temp/humidity
> controlled above ground wine cellar and the room was dripping with
> water, and the paper cases were falling apart and some damn fine wine
> was in very ugly bottles - all spotted with red and black mold/mildew.
> Does anyone else put up with those conditions??

I always wonder about how accurate most of our humiudity measurements
are (at least for people like me who've bought relatively inexpensive
consumer thermometer/hygrometers).

My humidity measurement (in my mostly below ground, non-temperature
controlled cellar) is typically around 65%. No dripping, and no
mildew. I don't generally keep paper cases in there for more than a
few months at a time, but they don't fall apart.

Of course I really don't know what the (relative) humidity actually is!

Ronin wrote:
> On 2008-09-21 10:08:00 -0700, Doug Anderson
> > said:
>
>> Ronin > writes:
>>
>>> I have seen posted here that 56 deg F is the proper cellaring
>>> temperature, and I wonder if anyone can offer a citation for such, or
>>> knows of any study done to show what is the proper temp and humidity
>>> other than "common knowledge." Further, has there been any studies as
>>> to how maturing is effected by a few degrees warmer or cooler? In my
>>> own case, I have an uncontrolled basement room which stays about 55
>>> deg in the winter, and 65 in the summer. And as I am advancing in age
>>> (as which of us isn't?) I am finding myself wondering how I can push
>>> maturity without damaging the poor babies...
>>
>>
>> Good question, and I'd love to hear what others have to say.
>>
>> The only controlled experiments I've read about have been done by
>> this guy (Chris Miley):
>>
>> http://www.winecellarsecrets.com/win...emperature.htm
>>
>>
>
> Another question brought up by this interesting website - he notes that
> the optimum humidity is 70%, but if I raise my orchid room above 60%,
> the room turns black with mildew. Now, that is admitedly a much warmer
> clime, but I knew a man back East (US) who had a temp/humidity
> controlled above ground wine cellar and the room was dripping with
> water, and the paper cases were falling apart and some damn fine wine
> was in very ugly bottles - all spotted with red and black mold/mildew.
> Does anyone else put up with those conditions??
>

Something was wrong with that guy's humidity control: 70% relative
humidity means that the air is only carrying 70% of the water it has the
capacity to carry. Dripping water only occurs when the relative
humidity reaches 100% (aka the dew point). What could have occured is
that the air is set to 70% RH at a given temp, but then comes into
contact with objects that are a lot cooler and condense the water out of
the air. My cellar, passively cooled, stays at a fairly constant 65-80%
RH and I have no problems with mold or mildew. I'd be especially
careful about mildew as it can impart a TCA-like odor to things (not to
mention eating the labels).

Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

On Sep 21, 9:58*pm, Mark Lipton > wrote:
> Ronin wrote:
> > On 2008-09-21 10:08:00 -0700, Doug Anderson
> > > said:
>
> >> Ronin > writes:
>
> >>> I have seen posted here that 56 deg F is the proper cellaring
> >>> temperature, and I wonder if anyone can offer a citation for such, or
> >>> knows of any study done to show what is the proper temp and humidity
> >>> other than "common knowledge." *Further, has there been any studies as
> >>> to how maturing is effected by a few degrees warmer or cooler? *In my
> >>> own case, I have an uncontrolled basement room which stays about 55
> >>> deg in the winter, and 65 in the summer. *And as I am advancing in age
> >>> (as which of us isn't?) I am finding myself wondering how I can push
> >>> maturity without damaging the poor babies...
>
> >> Good question, and I'd love to hear what others have to say.
>
> >> The only controlled experiments I've read about have been done by
> >> this guy (Chris Miley):
>
> >>http://www.winecellarsecrets.com/win...emperature.htm
>
> > Another question brought up by this interesting website - he notes that
> > the optimum humidity is 70%, but if I raise my orchid room above 60%,
> > the room turns black with mildew. *Now, that is admitedly a much warmer
> > clime, but I knew a man back East (US) who had a temp/humidity
> > controlled above ground wine cellar and the room was dripping with
> > water, and the paper cases were falling apart and some damn fine wine
> > was in very ugly bottles - all spotted with red and black mold/mildew.
> > Does anyone else put up with those conditions??
>
> Something was wrong with that guy's humidity control: 70% relative
> humidity means that the air is only carrying 70% of the water it has the
> capacity to carry. *Dripping water only occurs when the relative
> humidity reaches 100% (aka the dew point). *What could have occured is
> that the air is set to 70% RH at a given temp, but then comes into
> contact with objects that are a lot cooler and condense the water out of
> the air. *My cellar, passively cooled, stays at a fairly constant 65-80%
> RH and I have no problems with mold or mildew. *I'd be especially
> careful about mildew as it can impart a TCA-like odor to things (not to
> mention eating the labels).

The various devices to measure RH that you buy at a low price(and
sometimes at high price when in a fancy case) can give results that
are off by many percent. They often are not well calibrated at at
least 3 points, and even if well calibrated may drift off calibration
with time. If one is willing to forgo convenience, the classic dry
bulb- wet-bulb dual thermometer method is likely to be much more
accurate. Some of these devices can be rotated in the air so that the
wet bulb rapidly reaches the lowest temperature. To see an example of
such a device, view http://www.theweatherstore.com/poslps.html . I
have not bought from this source, so I can say nothing about the
relative quality of this specific device. Of course if you collect
Romanee-Conti you can get a nice direct reading instrument from a
laboratory supply house to accurately read RH for several hundreds of
$US dollars. But even that is far less than just one bottle of Romanee-
Conti from a good year :-).

Mark Lipton wrote:
> Ronin wrote:
>> On 2008-09-21 10:08:00 -0700, Doug Anderson
>> > said:
>>
>>> Ronin > writes:
>>>
>>>> I have seen posted here that 56 deg F is the proper cellaring
>>>> temperature, and I wonder if anyone can offer a citation for such, or
>>>> knows of any study done to show what is the proper temp and humidity
>>>> other than "common knowledge." Further, has there been any studies as
>>>> to how maturing is effected by a few degrees warmer or cooler? In my
>>>> own case, I have an uncontrolled basement room which stays about 55
>>>> deg in the winter, and 65 in the summer. And as I am advancing in age
>>>> (as which of us isn't?) I am finding myself wondering how I can push
>>>> maturity without damaging the poor babies...
>>>
>>> Good question, and I'd love to hear what others have to say.
>>>
>>> The only controlled experiments I've read about have been done by
>>> this guy (Chris Miley):
>>>
>>> http://www.winecellarsecrets.com/win...emperature.htm
>>>
>>>
>> Another question brought up by this interesting website - he notes that
>> the optimum humidity is 70%, but if I raise my orchid room above 60%,
>> the room turns black with mildew. Now, that is admitedly a much warmer
>> clime, but I knew a man back East (US) who had a temp/humidity
>> controlled above ground wine cellar and the room was dripping with
>> water, and the paper cases were falling apart and some damn fine wine
>> was in very ugly bottles - all spotted with red and black mold/mildew.
>> Does anyone else put up with those conditions??
>>
>
> Something was wrong with that guy's humidity control: 70% relative
> humidity means that the air is only carrying 70% of the water it has the
> capacity to carry. Dripping water only occurs when the relative
> humidity reaches 100% (aka the dew point). What could have occured is
> that the air is set to 70% RH at a given temp, but then comes into
> contact with objects that are a lot cooler and condense the water out of
> the air. My cellar, passively cooled, stays at a fairly constant 65-80%
> RH and I have no problems with mold or mildew. I'd be especially
> careful about mildew as it can impart a TCA-like odor to things (not to
> mention eating the labels).
>

Haven't notices a problem with odor once the bottles are opened, but my
cave here in Normandy has walls covered with black goop, and cardboard
chuckles ruefully before rotting in about a week. Labels are usually
pretty poor, but that just adds to the charm, right? The advantage is
that I can give a bottle to a neophyte, they are invariably impressed
by how long I've been keeping it. Even when it's only been there a few
months!

Can't say I've ever actually measured the humidity. It is what it is,
and nothing I can do will change it...

-E

On Sep 21, 10:58�pm, Mark Lipton > wrote:
> Ronin wrote:
> > On 2008-09-21 10:08:00 -0700, Doug Anderson
> > > said:
>
> >> Ronin > writes:
>
> >>> I have seen posted here that 56 deg F is the proper cellaring
> >>> temperature, and I wonder if anyone can offer a citation for such, or
> >>> knows of any study done to show what is the proper temp and humidity
> >>> other than "common knowledge." �Further, has there been any studies as
> >>> to how maturing is effected by a few degrees warmer or cooler? �In my
> >>> own case, I have an uncontrolled basement room which stays about 55
> >>> deg in the winter, and 65 in the summer. �And as I am advancing in age
> >>> (as which of us isn't?) I am finding myself wondering how I can push
> >>> maturity without damaging the poor babies...
>
> >> Good question, and I'd love to hear what others have to say.
>
> >> The only controlled experiments I've read about have been done by
> >> this guy (Chris Miley):
>
> >>http://www.winecellarsecrets.com/win...emperature.htm
>
> > Another question brought up by this interesting website - he notes that
> > the optimum humidity is 70%, but if I raise my orchid room above 60%,
> > the room turns black with mildew. �Now, that is admitedly a much warmer
> > clime, but I knew a man back East (US) who had a temp/humidity
> > controlled above ground wine cellar and the room was dripping with
> > water, and the paper cases were falling apart and some damn fine wine
> > was in very ugly bottles - all spotted with red and black mold/mildew.
> > Does anyone else put up with those conditions??
>
> Something was wrong with that guy's humidity control: 70% relative
> humidity means that the air is only carrying 70% of the water it has the
> capacity to carry. �Dripping water only occurs when the relative
> humidity reaches 100% (aka the dew point). �What could have occured is
> that the air is set to 70% RH at a given temp, but then comes into
> contact with objects that are a lot cooler and condense the water out of
> the air. �My cellar, passively cooled, stays at a fairly constant 65-80%
> RH and I have no problems with mold or mildew. �I'd be especially
> careful about mildew as it can impart a TCA-like odor to things (not to
> mention eating the labels).
>
> Mark Lipton
>
> --
> alt.food.wine FAQ: �http://winefaq.cwdjr.net- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I have a split system that maintains 55F and 65-70% humidity and I
have not problems with mold or labels.

"Anders Tørneskog" > wrote:

> (the fabled stash of great wines at Glamis castle, Scotland,
> discovered some time in the 60-ies or 70-ies had survived a
> century at 41F...)

Sorry Anders, but I simply cannot believe that the overall annual
average temperature of the site of a Scottish castle would be 41F =
less than 3°C. That's more something like the average temperature
of a high alpine chalet or anything near the polar circle. Simply
impossible, imnsho.

M.

"Michael Pronay" > skrev i melding
...
> "Anders Tørneskog" > wrote:
>
>> (the fabled stash of great wines at Glamis castle, Scotland,
>> discovered some time in the 60-ies or 70-ies had survived a
>> century at 41F...)
>
> Sorry Anders, but I simply cannot believe that the overall annual
> average temperature of the site of a Scottish castle would be 41F =
> less than 3°C. That's more something like the average temperature
> of a high alpine chalet or anything near the polar circle. Simply
> impossible, imnsho.
>
> M.
Hi Michael
41F is 9 degrees Fahrenheit above 32, the freezing point, so is equal to
5°C...
Now it appears that average yearly temperature in Scotland ranges from 7 to
9°C. If we say 8°C then that is 46.4°F... (Somewhere on the net someone
wrote that the Glamis Castle cellar was between 41 and 45...?)
Perhaps you might be able to check with Broadbent or Christies whether they
have any notes about that?
Best
Anders

"Anders Tørneskog" > wrote in news:48daa8aa$0
:

>> Sorry Anders, but I simply cannot believe that the overall annual
>> average temperature of the site of a Scottish castle would be 41F =
>> less than 3øC. That's more something like the average temperature
>> of a high alpine chalet or anything near the polar circle. Simply
>> impossible, imnsho.

scotland isn't exactly the Riviera (and that is further north than many
wine growning areas in the US!

--
Joseph Coulter, cruises and vacations
www.josephcoulter.com

877 832 2021
904 631 8863 cell

"Anders Tørneskog" > wrote:

>>> (the fabled stash of great wines at Glamis castle, Scotland,
>>> discovered some time in the 60-ies or 70-ies had survived a
>>> century at 41F...)

>> Sorry Anders, but I simply cannot believe that the overall
>> annual average temperature of the site of a Scottish castle
>> would be 41F = less than 3°C. That's more something like the
>> average temperature of a high alpine chalet or anything near
>> the polar circle. Simply impossible, imnsho.
>>
>> M.

> 41F is 9 degrees Fahrenheit above 32, the freezing point, so is
> equal to 5°C...
> Now it appears that average yearly temperature in Scotland
> ranges from 7 to 9°C. If we say 8°C then that is 46.4°F...
> (Somewhere on the net someone wrote that the Glamis Castle
> cellar was between 41 and 45...?) Perhaps you might be able to
> check with Broadbent or Christies whether they have any notes
> about that? Best

Thank you for correcting me. 8°C as yearly average for Glamis (and,
according to the fundamental principles of thermodynamics, also
definitely the average cellar temparature right there) seems to fit
my memory quite good.

Just as an aside: Serena Sutcliffe in the 1970s for Sothebys sold
quite a lot of 1940s/50s Bordeaux, a surplus from the Swedish
Monopoly. She also bought a few bottles herself, and said that due to
the very cool cellars of the monopoly, the wines were exceptionally
fresh and beautifully preserved.

M.

On Sep 25, 2:26*am, Michael Pronay > wrote:
> "Anders Tørneskog" > wrote:
> >>> (the fabled stash of great wines at Glamis castle, Scotland,
> >>> discovered some time in the 60-ies or 70-ies had survived a
> >>> century at 41F...)
> >> Sorry Anders, but I simply cannot believe that the overall
> >> annual average temperature of the site of a Scottish castle
> >> would be 41F = less than 3°C. That's more something like the
> >> average temperature of a high alpine chalet or anything near
> >> the polar circle. Simply impossible, imnsho.
>
> >> M.
> > 41F is 9 degrees Fahrenheit above 32, the freezing point, so is
> > equal to 5°C...
> > Now it appears that average yearly temperature in Scotland
> > ranges from 7 to 9°C. If we say 8°C then that is 46.4°F...
> > (Somewhere on the net someone wrote that the Glamis Castle
> > cellar was between 41 and 45...?) Perhaps you might be able to
> > check with Broadbent or Christies whether they have any notes
> > about that? Best
>
> Thank you for correcting me. 8°C as yearly average for Glamis (and,
> according to the fundamental principles of thermodynamics, also
> definitely the average cellar temparature right there) seems to fit
> my memory quite good.

I found some information that gives average underground temperatures
in the US and many cities around the world. Note that this information
is in F degrees and not C degrees.

http://www.greenbuildingtalk.com/For...c/Default.aspx

"cwdjrxyz" > skrev i melding
...
I found some information that gives average underground temperatures
in the US and many cities around the world. Note that this information
is in F degrees and not C degrees.

http://www.greenbuildingtalk.com/For...c/Default.aspx

Yes, the table gives 49 for Aberdeen. Glamis castle is quite near but at a
somewhat higher altitude and more inland. 46 could then be right if the
cellars in question are sufficiently deep below the ground level.
Anders

"Anders Tørneskog" > wrote:

> Yes, the table gives 49 for Aberdeen. Glamis castle is
> quite near but at a somewhat higher altitude and more inland.
> 46 could then be right if the cellars in question are
> sufficiently deep below the ground level.

Which quite obviously they were/are.

M.

Absent proper room preparation, which includes the critical use of a complete vapor barrier envelope which segregates external and internal environments, the humidity levels RELATIVE to a given temperature are going to result int eh probability of mold and mildew growth.

Absent proper room prep, you're just wasting time monitoring ro trying to control any environment.

Mike Stanton

In article >,
Doug Anderson > wrote:

> Ronin > writes:
>
> > I have seen posted here that 56 deg F is the proper cellaring
> > temperature, and I wonder if anyone can offer a citation for such, or
> > knows of any study done to show what is the proper temp and humidity
> > other than "common knowledge." Further, has there been any studies as
> > to how maturing is effected by a few degrees warmer or cooler? In my
> > own case, I have an uncontrolled basement room which stays about 55
> > deg in the winter, and 65 in the summer. And as I am advancing in age
> > (as which of us isn't?) I am finding myself wondering how I can push
> > maturity without damaging the poor babies...
>
> Good question, and I'd love to hear what others have to say.
>
> The only controlled experiments I've read about have been done by
> this guy (Chris Miley):
>
> http://www.winecellarsecrets.com/win...emperature.htm
>
> I don't cellar much wine for more than about 5 years or so. My cellar
> has conditions similar to those you describe (55 in winter, warming to
> 65 in summer).
>
> I haven't noticed any problems, but I haven't done good controlled
> experiments.
>
> The conventional wisdom (which you probably already know) seems to be:
> aging at 55 is slow, but leads to greater complexity. Higher
> temperatures lead to more rapid aging but with less complexity.
> Frequent temperature changes are bad.
>
> Miley tested the last thing in the edition of his book that I read.

I run mine at 54? and I think the aging I see is quite complex for the
right wines. Even inexpensive wines are cellared for up to 2 years.

In article >, Mark Lipton >
wrote:

> Ronin wrote:
> > On 2008-09-21 10:08:00 -0700, Doug Anderson
> > > said:
> >
> >> Ronin > writes:
> >>
> >>> I have seen posted here that 56 deg F is the proper cellaring
> >>> temperature, and I wonder if anyone can offer a citation for such, or
> >>> knows of any study done to show what is the proper temp and humidity
> >>> other than "common knowledge." Further, has there been any studies as
> >>> to how maturing is effected by a few degrees warmer or cooler? In my
> >>> own case, I have an uncontrolled basement room which stays about 55
> >>> deg in the winter, and 65 in the summer. And as I am advancing in age
> >>> (as which of us isn't?) I am finding myself wondering how I can push
> >>> maturity without damaging the poor babies...
> >>
> >>
> >> Good question, and I'd love to hear what others have to say.
> >>
> >> The only controlled experiments I've read about have been done by
> >> this guy (Chris Miley):
> >>
> >> http://www.winecellarsecrets.com/win...emperature.htm
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Another question brought up by this interesting website - he notes that
> > the optimum humidity is 70%, but if I raise my orchid room above 60%,
> > the room turns black with mildew. Now, that is admitedly a much warmer
> > clime, but I knew a man back East (US) who had a temp/humidity
> > controlled above ground wine cellar and the room was dripping with
> > water, and the paper cases were falling apart and some damn fine wine
> > was in very ugly bottles - all spotted with red and black mold/mildew.
> > Does anyone else put up with those conditions??
> >
>
> Something was wrong with that guy's humidity control: 70% relative
> humidity means that the air is only carrying 70% of the water it has the
> capacity to carry. Dripping water only occurs when the relative
> humidity reaches 100% (aka the dew point). What could have occured is
> that the air is set to 70% RH at a given temp, but then comes into
> contact with objects that are a lot cooler and condense the water out of
> the air. My cellar, passively cooled, stays at a fairly constant 65-80%
> RH and I have no problems with mold or mildew. I'd be especially
> careful about mildew as it can impart a TCA-like odor to things (not to
> mention eating the labels).
>
> Mark Lipton

My cabinet keeps the humidity at 65% year round. I have found mold with
75% or higher.