Hello All!

I had hoped that screw tops might eliminate TCA but yesterday I think I
detected it in a screwtop NZ wine: Grove Mill Marlborough Riesling,
2005. It was not undrinkable but there was a most unusual over taste.
The label claims that it could be cellared until 2013, but not by me!


--


James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

James Silverton wrote:
> Hello All!
>
> I had hoped that screw tops might eliminate TCA but yesterday I think I
> detected it in a screwtop NZ wine: Grove Mill Marlborough Riesling,
> 2005. It was not undrinkable but there was a most unusual over taste.
> The label claims that it could be cellared until 2013, but not by me!

Jim,
Keep in mind that corks aren't the only source of TCA, just the most
common one. Barrels can also pick up a TCA contamination and (most
disastrously) even entire winery facilities can. What year was your
Grove Mill Riesling? I think that I've seen some locally and might pick
one up out of curiosity.

Mark Lipton


--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

Mark wrote on Mon, 22 Sep 2008 12:40:43 -0400:

> James Silverton wrote:
>> Hello All!
>>
>> I had hoped that screw tops might eliminate TCA but yesterday
>> I think I detected it in a screwtop NZ wine: Grove Mill
>> Marlborough Riesling, 2005. It was not undrinkable but there
>> was a most unusual over taste. The label claims that it could
>> be cellared until 2013, but not by me!

> Jim,
> Keep in mind that corks aren't the only source of TCA, just
> the most common one. Barrels can also pick up a TCA
> contamination and (most disastrously) even entire winery
> facilities can. What year was your Grove Mill Riesling? I
> think that I've seen some locally and might pick one up out of
> curiosity.

> Mark Lipton

Thanks Mark. 2005 as I said.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

Mark Lipton > wrote:

>> I had hoped that screw tops might eliminate TCA but yesterday I
>> think I detected it in a screwtop NZ wine: Grove Mill
>> Marlborough Riesling, 2005. It was not undrinkable but there
>> was a most unusual over taste. The label claims that it could
>> be cellared until 2013, but not by me!

> Keep in mind that corks aren't the only source of TCA, just the
> most common one. Barrels can also pick up a TCA contamination

JFTMOR: a riesling -- from wherever it might come -- probably
never ever has seen a barrel even by distance. (I know that a few
exceptions exist, thank you.)

> and (most disastrously) even entire winery facilities can.

But then the whole batch should be tainted. One single bottle does
not tell much.

M.

Michael Pronay wrote:
> Mark Lipton > wrote:
>
>>> I had hoped that screw tops might eliminate TCA but yesterday I
>>> think I detected it in a screwtop NZ wine: Grove Mill
>>> Marlborough Riesling, 2005. It was not undrinkable but there
>>> was a most unusual over taste. The label claims that it could
>>> be cellared until 2013, but not by me!
>
>> Keep in mind that corks aren't the only source of TCA, just the
>> most common one. Barrels can also pick up a TCA contamination
>
> JFTMOR: a riesling -- from wherever it might come -- probably
> never ever has seen a barrel even by distance. (I know that a few
> exceptions exist, thank you.)

Michael,
Are you saying that few Rieslings see cooperage of any sort? I
don't know what the practice is in Austria, but in Germany, the
traditional method of elevage involves placing the wine in 1000 L fuder,
which are indeed oak barrels. Are you saying otherwise? I'm confused.

Mark Lipton
--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

excuse my similar response, Google Groups is having one of their bimonthly
"every posting is delayed" issues, I didn't see this

"Mark Lipton" > wrote in message
...
> Michael Pronay wrote:
>> Mark Lipton > wrote:
>>
>>>> I had hoped that screw tops might eliminate TCA but yesterday I
>>>> think I detected it in a screwtop NZ wine: Grove Mill
>>>> Marlborough Riesling, 2005. It was not undrinkable but there
>>>> was a most unusual over taste. The label claims that it could
>>>> be cellared until 2013, but not by me!
>>
>>> Keep in mind that corks aren't the only source of TCA, just the
>>> most common one. Barrels can also pick up a TCA contamination
>>
>> JFTMOR: a riesling -- from wherever it might come -- probably
>> never ever has seen a barrel even by distance. (I know that a few
>> exceptions exist, thank you.)
>
> Michael,
> Are you saying that few Rieslings see cooperage of any sort? I
> don't know what the practice is in Austria, but in Germany, the
> traditional method of elevage involves placing the wine in 1000 L fuder,
> which are indeed oak barrels. Are you saying otherwise? I'm confused.
>
> Mark Lipton
> --
> alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

"Mark Lipton" > wrote in message
...
> Michael Pronay wrote:
>> Mark Lipton > wrote:
>>
>>>> I had hoped that screw tops might eliminate TCA but yesterday I
>>>> think I detected it in a screwtop NZ wine: Grove Mill
>>>> Marlborough Riesling, 2005. It was not undrinkable but there
>>>> was a most unusual over taste. The label claims that it could
>>>> be cellared until 2013, but not by me!
>>
>>> Keep in mind that corks aren't the only source of TCA, just the
>>> most common one. Barrels can also pick up a TCA contamination
>>
>> JFTMOR: a riesling -- from wherever it might come -- probably
>> never ever has seen a barrel even by distance. (I know that a few
>> exceptions exist, thank you.)
>
> Michael,
> Are you saying that few Rieslings see cooperage of any sort? I
> don't know what the practice is in Austria, but in Germany, the
> traditional method of elevage involves placing the wine in 1000 L fuder,
> which are indeed oak barrels. Are you saying otherwise? I'm confused.
>
> Mark Lipton
> --
> alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

Whoa! Sorry guys, this is NZ Reisling

Think Steel, Steel, Steel.
Sure, reds like PN, Cab, Merlot Malbec will see oak.
Some whites as well, especially Chard (too much quite often)
and a rare SB or two many get a little oak, mainly the richer tropical
styles from say Hawkes Bay, but most SB and as far as I know all
nz reisling will have seen nothing but stainless steel till it hits a
bottling
line.
Sorry about your dodgey wine though, hard too attribute a cause IMO.

cheers
greybeard

On Sep 24, 12:14�pm, Michael Pronay > wrote:
> JFTMOR: a riesling -- from wherever it might come -- probably
> never ever has seen a barrel even by distance. (I know that a few
> exceptions exist, thank you.)
>
Not barriques, maybe, but my impression was a LOT of German and Alsace
wines are aged in fuder or other large barrels.

"Michael Pronay" > skrev i melding
...
> JFTMOR: a riesling -- from wherever it might come -- probably
> never ever has seen a barrel even by distance. (I know that a few
> exceptions exist, thank you.)
>
Fuder is not a barrel?
Gerhard Eifel (Galerie Riesling) used Fuders in the 1990'ies (but steel
tanks now), many minor vintners in the Mosel had Fuders even to this date...
But, I agree, they are becoming exceptions :-)
Anders

"Anders Tørneskog" > wrote:

>> JFTMOR: a riesling -- from wherever it might come -- probably
>> never ever has seen a barrel even by distance. (I know that a
>> few exceptions exist, thank you.)

> Fuder is not a barrel?

Sorry folks, my misinterpretation. I was thinking of new barrels.

Btw, has anyone heard of old barrels becoming TCA-infected?

M.

On Sep 25, 3:29�am, Michael Pronay > wrote:
> "Anders T�rneskog" > wrote:
> >> JFTMOR: a riesling -- from wherever it might come -- probably
> >> never ever has seen a barrel even by distance. (I know that a
> >> few exceptions exist, thank you.)
> > Fuder is not a barrel?
>
> Sorry folks, my misinterpretation. I was thinking of new barrels.
>
> Btw, has anyone heard of old barrels becoming TCA-infected?
>
> M.

My impression was that it is mostly old barrels that get TCA
infection. Old barrels get cleaned (to prevent brett and other
bacterial infections), and if done improperly (using something with
clorine, including just chlorinated water) that can lead to systemic
TCA.

So if a winery is Riesling only, and uses fuders, do they always buy
used barrels? My assumption was that occasionally there was a new
fuder, but the size (and probably lack of heavy charring) meant
minimal oak transfer.