Hello,
Does anybody know what compounds give wine honey aromas?
Cheers and TIA
Nils

>
> According to my notes, 2-phenyl ethanol, cinnamic acid, ethyl decanoate,
> phenethyl acetate and phenylacetic acid.
>

Apparently also 2,5-dimethyl-4-hydroxy-3[2H]-furanone, and
2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohex-2-ene-1,4-dione , the frist being a lactone, the
second an isoprenoid. Admittedly, the first is isolated in Slovakian brandy
....

Thanks for your input!

Cheers

Nils

"Nils Gustaf Lindgren" > skrev i melding
...
> >
>> According to my notes, 2-phenyl ethanol, cinnamic acid, ethyl decanoate,
>> phenethyl acetate and phenylacetic acid.
>>
>
> Apparently also 2,5-dimethyl-4-hydroxy-3[2H]-furanone, and
> 2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohex-2-ene-1,4-dione , the frist being a lactone, the
> second an isoprenoid. Admittedly, the first is isolated in Slovakian
> brandy ...
How come a shrink knows organic chemistry? Or is it Google knowledge?
:-) Anders

google-san-wa anata-no tomodashi-desu as I always point out ...
yeah, google, and a curiosity that endangers all the neighbourhood cats ...
Seriously, I will hold a lecture on aromatic French wines next Tuesday, and
I always want to know more than is contained in the pensum. Besides, I do
know SOME organic chemistry. We were, after all, required to learn the Krebs
cycle (( in med school. Never had much practical value in my professional
life, really.

No doubt, one of these days you will find me studying Hungarian just to try
to find out how, when, and why the pinot gris landed in Badacsony. That is
one thing I doubt I'll be able to find out using google, since the matter is
swamped by the recurring factoid of Charles IV having had it imported in
1375.

Cheers

Nils

"Anders Tørneskog" > skrev i meddelandet
...
>
> "Nils Gustaf Lindgren" > skrev i melding
> ...
>> >
>>> According to my notes, 2-phenyl ethanol, cinnamic acid, ethyl decanoate,
>>> phenethyl acetate and phenylacetic acid.
>>>
>>
>> Apparently also 2,5-dimethyl-4-hydroxy-3[2H]-furanone, and
>> 2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohex-2-ene-1,4-dione , the frist being a lactone, the
>> second an isoprenoid. Admittedly, the first is isolated in Slovakian
>> brandy ...
> How come a shrink knows organic chemistry? Or is it Google knowledge?
> :-) Anders
>

Nils Gustaf Lindgren ha scritto:
> Hello,
> Does anybody know what compounds give wine honey aromas?
> Cheers and TIA
> Nils
>
>
Hi Nils
a couple of link
http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/odor/honey.html
http://www.flavornet.org/flavornet.html
Luk

There are other things than Google - www.wein-plus.de, for instance, where I
found the following:

Im Burgund wuchs die Rebe früher oft inmitten von Pinot Noir auf, von dem
sie ohne die Trauben nicht unterschieden werden kann. In Niederösterreich
und Westungarn wurde sie bereits im 13. Jahrhundert von
Zisterzienser-Mönchen angebaut, woher sich auch der Name "Grauer Mönch"
ableitet. Diese standen in direkter Verbindung mit ihren Mutterklöstern im
Burgund. In Südbaden wurde sie mit den Sorten Roter Traminer und Hanns
(Hansen, Kleiner Veltliner) verwechselt (ID = A. Jung). Alle drei Sorten
wurden bereits im Jahre 1639 unter dem Homonym Musler (Graue) bei
Schaffhausen angebaut. Das Synonym Grauer Tokayer und die mährische Herkunft
des Hanns und des Traminer könnten auf eine Herkunft aus Nordungarn oder
Slowakei hinweisen.

So, nothing with Charles IV here

Anders

"Nils Gustaf Lindgren" > skrev i melding
...
> google-san-wa anata-no tomodashi-desu as I always point out ...
> yeah, google, and a curiosity that endangers all the neighbourhood cats
> ...
> Seriously, I will hold a lecture on aromatic French wines next Tuesday,
> and I always want to know more than is contained in the pensum. Besides, I
> do know SOME organic chemistry. We were, after all, required to learn the
> Krebs cycle (( in med school. Never had much practical value in my
> professional life, really.
>
> No doubt, one of these days you will find me studying Hungarian just to
> try to find out how, when, and why the pinot gris landed in Badacsony.
> That is one thing I doubt I'll be able to find out using google, since the
> matter is swamped by the recurring factoid of Charles IV having had it
> imported in 1375.
>
> Cheers
>
> Nils
>
> "Anders Tørneskog" > skrev i meddelandet
> ...
>>
>> "Nils Gustaf Lindgren" > skrev i melding
>> ...
>>> >
>>>> According to my notes, 2-phenyl ethanol, cinnamic acid, ethyl
>>>> decanoate, phenethyl acetate and phenylacetic acid.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Apparently also 2,5-dimethyl-4-hydroxy-3[2H]-furanone, and
>>> 2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohex-2-ene-1,4-dione , the frist being a lactone, the
>>> second an isoprenoid. Admittedly, the first is isolated in Slovakian
>>> brandy ...
>> How come a shrink knows organic chemistry? Or is it Google knowledge?
>> :-) Anders
>>
>
>

Thanks - sometimes I forget being teutophone <giggle>.
However, any reference to Pinot (of any color) earlier than the late 14th
century is, I fear, largely hypothetical. The earliest dokucemntation of
pinot is if I have read this correctly from the court of Philip the Bold,
the first Valois duke of Burgundy, and more or less contemporary with the
wellknown valediction of the "evil and disloyal" Gamay, from the same duke.
Btw, here the claim is that the variety was found in Western Hungary in the
13th century - this is quite possible, but I would like some reference to
contemporary documents (e g, chronicles from some of the Cistercian
monasteries, which are, of course, very much historical /the monasteries,
not the putative documents/).

The lack of mention of Charles IV is refreshing.

I will have to look into your reference, it is very interesting. Thank you
very much!

Cheers

Nils

"Anders Tørneskog" > skrev i meddelandet
...
> There are other things than Google - www.wein-plus.de, for instance, where
> I found the following:
>
> Im Burgund wuchs die Rebe früher oft inmitten von Pinot Noir auf, von dem
> sie ohne die Trauben nicht unterschieden werden kann. In Niederösterreich
> und Westungarn wurde sie bereits im 13. Jahrhundert von
> Zisterzienser-Mönchen angebaut, woher sich auch der Name "Grauer Mönch"
> ableitet. Diese standen in direkter Verbindung mit ihren Mutterklöstern im
> Burgund. In Südbaden wurde sie mit den Sorten Roter Traminer und Hanns
> (Hansen, Kleiner Veltliner) verwechselt (ID = A. Jung). Alle drei Sorten
> wurden bereits im Jahre 1639 unter dem Homonym Musler (Graue) bei
> Schaffhausen angebaut. Das Synonym Grauer Tokayer und die mährische
> Herkunft des Hanns und des Traminer könnten auf eine Herkunft aus
> Nordungarn oder Slowakei hinweisen.
>
> So, nothing with Charles IV here
>
> Anders
>
> "Nils Gustaf Lindgren" > skrev i melding
> ...
>> google-san-wa anata-no tomodashi-desu as I always point out ...
>> yeah, google, and a curiosity that endangers all the neighbourhood cats
>> ...
>> Seriously, I will hold a lecture on aromatic French wines next Tuesday,
>> and I always want to know more than is contained in the pensum. Besides,
>> I do know SOME organic chemistry. We were, after all, required to learn
>> the Krebs cycle (( in med school. Never had much practical value in my
>> professional life, really.
>>
>> No doubt, one of these days you will find me studying Hungarian just to
>> try to find out how, when, and why the pinot gris landed in Badacsony.
>> That is one thing I doubt I'll be able to find out using google, since
>> the matter is swamped by the recurring factoid of Charles IV having had
>> it imported in 1375.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Nils
>>
>> "Anders Tørneskog" > skrev i meddelandet
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Nils Gustaf Lindgren" > skrev i
>>> melding ...
>>>> >
>>>>> According to my notes, 2-phenyl ethanol, cinnamic acid, ethyl
>>>>> decanoate, phenethyl acetate and phenylacetic acid.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Apparently also 2,5-dimethyl-4-hydroxy-3[2H]-furanone, and
>>>> 2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohex-2-ene-1,4-dione , the frist being a lactone,
>>>> the second an isoprenoid. Admittedly, the first is isolated in
>>>> Slovakian brandy ...
>>> How come a shrink knows organic chemistry? Or is it Google knowledge?
>>> :-) Anders
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

"Nils Gustaf Lindgren" > wrote in message
...
> Hello,
> Does anybody know what compounds give wine honey aromas?
> Cheers and TIA
> Nils
>

I don't know the compounds but I do know from experience that wines that
have been made from grapes infected with noble rot exhibit more and more
honey aromas as they age and less of the varietals (typically semillon or
riesling) from which they were made. Similarly aged Hunter Valley semillons
(very dry wines) can also show honeyed fragrance.

Cheers!

Martin