Dale, for the record,

I had no issue with any of M. Tommassi's posts on his participation with the
Venice issues. In fact they were humorous as well. His assumption on
Venice was fine.

What I take issue with is that someone in the group asks for clarity...and
therefore the poster replied and provided same. Others then debated why
clarity was ever needed. That is what my issue is.

Ian is totally incorrect that any of my statements here were America-Centric
or Pro American.

It only shows how this group can be polarized over a simple question of
clarity be provided.

the end.
"Dale Williams" > wrote in message
...
> In article k.net>,
Dwmidnt
> writes:
>
> >In any case I think that AFW can do without
>
> Oops, premature ej..I mean premature posting.
>
> I meant to say AFW can do without namecalling and derision. Even if we
disagree
> let's try to be semi-mature about it. Thanks all.
> Dale
>
> Dale Williams
> Drop "damnspam" to reply

In article >,
Ian Hoare > wrote:
>
[snip!]
>
>There's not much point in us Europeans taking part, as I don't think anyone
>over here had even _heard_ of either of these two American towns (honestly
>- I'm not being in any way snide or unpleasant) before this episode.


It's okay. We haven't heard of lots of towns in Europe either. Funny,
though, considering we Americans are always the ones being bashed for
lacking knowledge of geography. Most Americans will have heard of at least
one of them, if not both. They are not exactly obscure. It didn't stop you
from jumping in the fray and proclaiming that the only Venice that comes
to your mind must be in Italy, even though you now admit you hadn't even
heard of the other cities.


Dimitri

In article >,
Ian Hoare > wrote:
>
>Honestly, even if afw were purely american, I'd be prepared to bet that more
>than half would take Venice (unqualified) to mean the city of the Doges.


Probably. Maybe even 90%. So what? It is not unambiguous.


>In that context therefore, I felt (and feel) that your subsequent posts
>have been unhelpfully chauvinist.


The only chauvinists here have been the Europeans.


>No, Ed, ONLY to an American. To anyone else in the world, Venice FL and
>Venice CA are is insignificant and irrelevant as Washington Tyne & Weir and
>Washington West Sussex are to anyone outside the UK. And you make that
>point brilliantly.


I disagree. Venice, CA is a major tourist destination. Lots of Europeans
(especially Germans) go out of their way to see it. In reality there is
not much to see, but it has an international reputation for freaky people,
muscle beach, and other quirks. Visit on any given day and you will see
tourists speaking many different languages there. In fact, I think the
Europeans are more amused by it than the Americans.


>Only by an American, and I think it's fair to riposte that only in America
>would anyone make such an ill tempered issue of it, without becoming a
>laughing stock immediately. It's not about European's egos, it's about
>keeping a reasonable international perspective, which would NOT appear to
>be a strong point amongst several contributors here.


An international perspective *includes* the Americans reading this
newsgroup. Even if they are the only ones to possibly be confused, they
make up a significant percentage of this group's traffic. The only one
making this an ugly issue has been the Europeans - by responding to my
query in the first place. There was no need.


Dimitri

(D. Gerasimatos) wrote in
:

> In article >,
> Ian Hoare > wrote:
>>

snip

>
>
>>Only by an American, and I think it's fair to riposte that only in
>>America would anyone make such an ill tempered issue of it, without
>>becoming a laughing stock immediately. It's not about European's egos,
>>it's about keeping a reasonable international perspective, which would
>>NOT appear to be a strong point amongst several contributors here.
>
>
> An international perspective *includes* the Americans reading this
> newsgroup. Even if they are the only ones to possibly be confused, they
> make up a significant percentage of this group's traffic. The only one
> making this an ugly issue has been the Europeans - by responding to my
> query in the first place. There was no need.
>
>
> Dimitri
>


In fairness, Dimitri, I find that a number of your posts have a certain
"certainty" about them that I think tends to make you an easy target. I
know that it has bothered me in some earlier threads.

But more importantly, I think you do a disservice to many of the thoughtful
and constructive European posters by suggesting that it was the "Europeans"
who made this an ugly thread. I think if you go back and look at the notes
posted in the entire thread (which I just did) you'll find that it really is
one indivudual that behaved badly. This individual is one who tends to
consistently engage in anti-american bantor. Just because one person
behaves badly does not mean that every European in the group should be
branded as behaving badly. To do so would be to engage in just the type of
behavior that you found offensive.

John

In article . 7>,
John Gunn > wrote:
>
>
>But more importantly, I think you do a disservice to many of the thoughtful
>and constructive European posters by suggesting that it was the "Europeans"
>who made this an ugly thread. I think if you go back and look at the notes
>posted in the entire thread (which I just did) you'll find that it really is
>one indivudual that behaved badly. This individual is one who tends to
>consistently engage in anti-american bantor. Just because one person
>behaves badly does not mean that every European in the group should be
>branded as behaving badly. To do so would be to engage in just the type of
>behavior that you found offensive.



I did not mean to disparage "Europeans" as a whole, but meant to point out
that it does not seem that Americans took issue with me. That is, while
not all Europeans have an attitude, certainly the people with attitude in
this thread have tended to be Europeans. I find that interesting, since both
of my parents are European. This is important only because two of the cities in
question happen to be American. You state yourself that it was a European
(if only one) that behaved badly. You see it as an isolated incident, but
I notice it as a trend.


Dimitri

On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 20:41:04 GMT, John Gunn
> wrote:
> it really is
>one indivudual that behaved badly. This individual is one who tends to
>consistently engage in anti-american bantor.

Who are you referring to?

Mike

Salut/Hi John Gunn,

le/on Sun, 05 Oct 2003 20:41:04 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

>In fairness, Dimitri, I find that a number of your posts have a certain
>"certainty" about them that I think tends to make you an easy target. I
>know that it has bothered me in some earlier threads.

I'd not describe the phrases

"Being in Italy perhaps you do not realize that."

"peanut gallery"

"How nice of you to speak for the entire audience of this newsgroup and
decide whether they needed clarification or not."

as have a "certain certainty", but more like deliberate abrasiveness. If he
can't stand the heat, he shouldn't go into the kitchen. He started the bad
tempered rudeness, now he's crying foul when he gets it back.

> I think if you go back and look at the notes posted in the entire thread (which I just did) you'll find that it really is
>one individual that behaved badly.

I suppose the finger is pointing at me.

> This individual is one who tends to consistently engage in anti-american bantor.

Meaning phrases like

"And even for an American, comparing Venice FL with the city of the Doges
and scene of Monteverdi's greatest hour is going a touch far."

I suppose. Yes, I tease Americans for being parochial as much as I tease
the French and British for it. If you re-read my contributions over the
years, you will find I'm far MORE critical of winemaking in France, for
example, than I am of America. Long before you came on the scene here, I
vigorously attacked a good friend of mine - Christian Callec - for making
anti-american remarks, for example. But really, John, I do feel that to
regard my comments as

> Just because one person behaves badly

behaving badly. For months - until I killfiled him - I read anti-French
comments from Dick Neidich. Is that reaction to be construed as being
anti-American too? I am not anti any nation, but I AM passionately opposed
to parochialism and chauvinism, wherever it is demonstrated. I don't like
it here in France where I am perpetually patronised by the French for being
British (with the implication that no one from the UK can cook or knows
about wine), and I don't like it "here" in afw, when ANYONE (Australians,
New Zealanders, Americans, Austrians, French or Spanish) seeks to denigrate
other nations or their wines or their people. I would say that such
behaviour is far WORSE than my reaction to it. If Ed had replied jovially
to Michael Tomassi's original comment, instead of abrasively justifying
himself, I'd not have entered the thread.

This is my last post on this topic.
--
All the Best
Ian Hoare

Sometimes oi just sits and thinks
Sometimes oi just sits.

(D. Gerasimatos) wrote in
:



>
>
> Dimitri
>

I screwed up, Dimitri caught me. I corrected, Let's drop it.


And just for the record, Paris is in Idaho!

Lets please try to correct your statement. For the most part my poor
behavior was really the month of February 2002. Please try not to overstate
my bad behavior. Most was meant to be humorous.

My statements were not sensitive and I have since ceased. For months my
posts have been on topic and not anti France.

For the record my purchases have not declined on French Bordeaux, Burgs or
Champagne...other than the fact with kids in college I spend less per bottle
and shop around.

My cellars are French, Euro, I have 2 units in addition to a true cellar.

I have not boycotted French Women...I love the accents...but I stay away
from them cause my wife would kill me.

I still like French Pastry...but cannot eat cause I am diabetic.

I love French Fries even though they are not really French, and refuse to
call them Freedom Fries. But not matter what name they go by I cannot eat
them as for health reasons.

I think France hiring Woody Allen to get tourism back was stupid since he is
fairly disliked by most Americans(I think he is funny as hell Btw).

I think American-French relations are strained and it will be a problem for
a long time.

The next time I think of going to Paris...it will not be Paris, Texas
either.

Ian, you need to get over my statements from the past. Even though you will
not be reading this since as you constantly like to say I am killfiled. You
get a pleasure from bringing that up. I think it is obnoxious but perhaps
that is part of a different issue.



"Ian Hoare" > wrote in message
...
> Salut/Hi John Gunn,
>
> le/on Sun, 05 Oct 2003 20:41:04 GMT, tu disais/you said:-
>
> >In fairness, Dimitri, I find that a number of your posts have a certain
> >"certainty" about them that I think tends to make you an easy target. I
> >know that it has bothered me in some earlier threads.
>
> I'd not describe the phrases
>
> "Being in Italy perhaps you do not realize that."
>
> "peanut gallery"
>
> "How nice of you to speak for the entire audience of this newsgroup and
> decide whether they needed clarification or not."
>
> as have a "certain certainty", but more like deliberate abrasiveness. If
he
> can't stand the heat, he shouldn't go into the kitchen. He started the bad
> tempered rudeness, now he's crying foul when he gets it back.
>
> > I think if you go back and look at the notes posted in the entire thread
(which I just did) you'll find that it really is
> >one individual that behaved badly.
>
> I suppose the finger is pointing at me.
>
> > This individual is one who tends to consistently engage in anti-american
bantor.
>
> Meaning phrases like
>
> "And even for an American, comparing Venice FL with the city of the Doges
> and scene of Monteverdi's greatest hour is going a touch far."
>
> I suppose. Yes, I tease Americans for being parochial as much as I tease
> the French and British for it. If you re-read my contributions over the
> years, you will find I'm far MORE critical of winemaking in France, for
> example, than I am of America. Long before you came on the scene here, I
> vigorously attacked a good friend of mine - Christian Callec - for making
> anti-american remarks, for example. But really, John, I do feel that to
> regard my comments as
>
> > Just because one person behaves badly
>
> behaving badly. For months - until I killfiled him - I read anti-French
> comments from Dick Neidich. Is that reaction to be construed as being
> anti-American too? I am not anti any nation, but I AM passionately opposed
> to parochialism and chauvinism, wherever it is demonstrated. I don't like
> it here in France where I am perpetually patronised by the French for
being
> British (with the implication that no one from the UK can cook or knows
> about wine), and I don't like it "here" in afw, when ANYONE (Australians,
> New Zealanders, Americans, Austrians, French or Spanish) seeks to
denigrate
> other nations or their wines or their people. I would say that such
> behaviour is far WORSE than my reaction to it. If Ed had replied jovially
> to Michael Tomassi's original comment, instead of abrasively justifying
> himself, I'd not have entered the thread.
>
> This is my last post on this topic.
> --
> All the Best
> Ian Hoare
>
> Sometimes oi just sits and thinks
> Sometimes oi just sits.

"Ian Hoare" > wrote in message
...

> .....
> I suppose the finger is pointing at me.
> .....

No, Ian, there is no finger worth mention and there is certainly
no anti-Americanism rampant in this thread. All we have
is a gratuitously dumb comment about qualifying one of the
major cities in the world to ensure it is not confused with
some local burgs. Following that inanity for whatever reason
the aptly named "dick" began yelling for apologies and
miscellaneous other nonsense. Then, finding no sympathy,
he did the Usenet equivalent of screaming "fire" in a theatre,
by claiming prejudice and bigotry on the part of those who
were not coddling his little mind. Just a weekend of silliness
on their parts, but it doubtless kept them off of the streets.

pavane

There was no screaming and you example is incorrect. This is an issue of
mannerly behavior.

That is all.

It a stranger was to drive in front of your business and ask directions to
Carolwood, you might ask them, The Town, The Street, The Avenue...for
clarification.

That is all this person did, and for such the thread is now 46 posts deep
for clarity and the debate of if asking is anti european. Or demonstrates
anti american behavior to suggest there can be more than one Venice.

I truly think that your thoughts are somewhat dictated on where you live.
That if a person in Portland Oregon said he was headed to Washington for the
weekend he likely means Washington State. If a person in Richmond Va says he
is going to Washington for a couple days he likely means DC.

Why is it so hard for some to be less than rude and have given the poster
that requested clarity without all the crap and attitude that went with it.

I do beleive he is due an apology from those that pushed on this thread
making it more than it is. And Pavane...in no way is that the same as
yelling fire in a theater. One actually does damage to the public good and
can cause harm. Mine was to create an atmosphere of tolerance. You
continue to demonstate poor behavior and I hope others can see your attempts
to flame at a fire.

"pavane" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Ian Hoare" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > .....
> > I suppose the finger is pointing at me.
> > .....
>
> No, Ian, there is no finger worth mention and there is certainly
> no anti-Americanism rampant in this thread. All we have
> is a gratuitously dumb comment about qualifying one of the
> major cities in the world to ensure it is not confused with
> some local burgs. Following that inanity for whatever reason
> the aptly named "dick" began yelling for apologies and
> miscellaneous other nonsense. Then, finding no sympathy,
> he did the Usenet equivalent of screaming "fire" in a theatre,
> by claiming prejudice and bigotry on the part of those who
> were not coddling his little mind. Just a weekend of silliness
> on their parts, but it doubtless kept them off of the streets.
>
> pavane
>
>

Basta(enough) you all!!!!
Somebody has to cease the current cycle of recrimination, you all sound
willing but can't resist a final volley, oops correction/clarification. Its
very disconcerting to read a thread which has little to do with wine but
plenty to do with arcane debaters points. Its deja-vu all over again.


--
Joe "Beppe" Rosenberg
"dick" > wrote in message
.net...
> There was no screaming and you example is incorrect. This is an issue of
> mannerly behavior.
>
> That is all.
>
> It a stranger was to drive in front of your business and ask directions to
> Carolwood, you might ask them, The Town, The Street, The Avenue...for
> clarification.
>
> That is all this person did, and for such the thread is now 46 posts deep
> for clarity and the debate of if asking is anti european. Or demonstrates
> anti american behavior to suggest there can be more than one Venice.
>
> I truly think that your thoughts are somewhat dictated on where you live.
> That if a person in Portland Oregon said he was headed to Washington for
the
> weekend he likely means Washington State. If a person in Richmond Va says
he
> is going to Washington for a couple days he likely means DC.
>
> Why is it so hard for some to be less than rude and have given the poster
> that requested clarity without all the crap and attitude that went with
it.
>
> I do beleive he is due an apology from those that pushed on this thread
> making it more than it is. And Pavane...in no way is that the same as
> yelling fire in a theater. One actually does damage to the public good
and
> can cause harm. Mine was to create an atmosphere of tolerance. You
> continue to demonstate poor behavior and I hope others can see your
attempts
> to flame at a fire.
>
> "pavane" > wrote in message
> . ..
> >
> > "Ian Hoare" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> > > .....
> > > I suppose the finger is pointing at me.
> > > .....
> >
> > No, Ian, there is no finger worth mention and there is certainly
> > no anti-Americanism rampant in this thread. All we have
> > is a gratuitously dumb comment about qualifying one of the
> > major cities in the world to ensure it is not confused with
> > some local burgs. Following that inanity for whatever reason
> > the aptly named "dick" began yelling for apologies and
> > miscellaneous other nonsense. Then, finding no sympathy,
> > he did the Usenet equivalent of screaming "fire" in a theatre,
> > by claiming prejudice and bigotry on the part of those who
> > were not coddling his little mind. Just a weekend of silliness
> > on their parts, but it doubtless kept them off of the streets.
> >
> > pavane
> >
> >
>
>

"D. Gerasimatos" > wrote in message


> It's okay. We haven't heard of lots of towns in Europe either. Funny,
> though, considering we Americans are always the ones being bashed for
> lacking knowledge of geography. Most Americans will have heard of at
> least one of them, if not both.

Thanks God for not having invented 'intellectual rights' in the american
interpretion of this term before giving a lot of towns names. :-)


Regards
Jan
(sorry - couldn't resist - wil not persevere in this thread)

"dick" > wrote in message
.net...

>......
> And Pavane...in no way is that the same as
> yelling fire in a theater. One actually does damage to the public good
and
> can cause harm. Mine was to create an atmosphere of tolerance.
>......

Yes, we can see how well you did. Tolerance. Indeed.

bye

pavane

"Joe Beppe Rosenberg" > wrote in message
...
>.....
> Basta(enough) you all!!!!
> Somebody has to cease the current cycle of recrimination, you all sound
> willing but can't resist a final volley, oops correction/clarification.
Its
> very disconcerting to read a thread which has little to do with wine but
> plenty to do with arcane debaters points. Its deja-vu all over again.
>.....

Agree. Too much about far too little.

Pace

pavane

Yes, tolerance for someone asking for clarity. Yes.
"pavane" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "dick" > wrote in message
> .net...
>
> >......
> > And Pavane...in no way is that the same as
> > yelling fire in a theater. One actually does damage to the public good
> and
> > can cause harm. Mine was to create an atmosphere of tolerance.
> >......
>
> Yes, we can see how well you did. Tolerance. Indeed.
>
> bye
>
> pavane
>
>

>No, Ian, there is no finger worth mention and there is certainly
>no anti-Americanism rampant in this thread.

As an American, I would agree with Pavane and I read these posts with a sigh
and a shrug but I've never felt any kind of anti-American bias from Ian or any
other regular for that matter.
Bi!!

Nor did I. Furthermore I never hinted that anyone did.

dick


"RV WRLee" > wrote in message
...
> >No, Ian, there is no finger worth mention and there is certainly
> >no anti-Americanism rampant in this thread.
>
> As an American, I would agree with Pavane and I read these posts with a
sigh
> and a shrug but I've never felt any kind of anti-American bias from Ian or
any
> other regular for that matter.
> Bi!!

In article >,
pavane > wrote:
>
>No, Ian, there is no finger worth mention and there is certainly
>no anti-Americanism rampant in this thread. All we have
>is a gratuitously dumb comment about qualifying one of the
>major cities in the world to ensure it is not confused with
>some local burgs.


Gratuitiously dumb? You have such a way with words. Major city or not,
there are other cities with the same name. If you like to think of them
as some "local burgs" then fine, but you are only displaying your own
ignorance by doing so.


Dimitri

In article >,
Ian Hoare > wrote:
>
>I'd not describe the phrases
>
>"Being in Italy perhaps you do not realize that."
>
>"peanut gallery"
>
>"How nice of you to speak for the entire audience of this newsgroup and
>decide whether they needed clarification or not."
>
>as have a "certain certainty", but more like deliberate abrasiveness. If he
>can't stand the heat, he shouldn't go into the kitchen. He started the bad
>tempered rudeness, now he's crying foul when he gets it back.



Oh, I am abrasive when I am attacked. However, I wish for you to explain
to me why rudeness to me was called for based on my first response, which
was not rude or abrasive in the slightest. I did not start the "bad
tempered rudeness" and I challenge you to back up that claim.


Dimitri

>Gratuitiously dumb? You have such a way with words. Major city or not,
>there are other cities with the same name. If you like to think of them
>as some "local burgs" then fine, but you are only displaying your own
>ignorance by doing so.

Just to put things into perspective the population of Venice, Florida is
estimated at 29,144 and the population of Venice, California is estimated at
37,700. Population of Venice, Italy estimated at 310,000. Did anybody really
have any question about what Venice was being refered to?
Bi!!

In article >,
RV WRLee > wrote:
>
>Just to put things into perspective the population of Venice, Florida is
>estimated at 29,144 and the population of Venice, California is estimated at
>37,700. Population of Venice, Italy estimated at 310,000. Did anybody really
>have any question about what Venice was being refered to?


I was told on this thread that population doesn't matter and I agree. What
the heck does the size of the city have to do with anything? There are
large cities that are rarely heard of and small ones that are. In the case
of Venice, CA it is much more well-known than its size would suggest because
it is located near Los Angeles. Venice, FL is a popular vacation
destination. Why guess when you can ask?


Dimitri

Come on now...size doesn't matter...listen to your spouse.


"RV WRLee" > wrote in message
...
> >Gratuitiously dumb? You have such a way with words. Major city or not,
> >there are other cities with the same name. If you like to think of them
> >as some "local burgs" then fine, but you are only displaying your own
> >ignorance by doing so.
>
> Just to put things into perspective the population of Venice, Florida is
> estimated at 29,144 and the population of Venice, California is estimated
at
> 37,700. Population of Venice, Italy estimated at 310,000. Did anybody
really
> have any question about what Venice was being refered to?
> Bi!!

"D. Gerasimatos" ha scritto

> No, you aren't objective. I typed "Venice" into Google. Of the first
> 10 hits, 6 referenced the city in Italy, 2 referenced the city in
> Florida, and 2 referenced the city in California.

Hey, LOL, do you also have Athens, Babylon and Kathmandu?
Nice place, the US, but I bet my cellar you don't have Rivalta.
Yeah!

Vilco

"Joe Beppe Rosenberg" ha scritto

> I much prefer the shops of Verona, Italy not New Jersey.

ROTFL!

Veeelco

"Dale Williams" ha scritto

> BTW, is Venice CA really a destination?

Yes.
Once, in Venice beach, Jim Morrison met his girlfriend.
That's epic history, to me ;O)

Vilco

"D. Gerasimatos" ha scritto

> Here is an interesting question:
> Where is the largest city named Newcastle in the world?
> a. USA
> b. South Africa
> c. Australia
> d. England

Well, Castelnuovo in italian means Newcastle.
10000 inhabitants. Did I win something?
LOL

Vilco

In article >,
Vilco > wrote:
>"D. Gerasimatos" ha scritto
>
>> No, you aren't objective. I typed "Venice" into Google. Of the first
>> 10 hits, 6 referenced the city in Italy, 2 referenced the city in
>> Florida, and 2 referenced the city in California.
>
>Hey, LOL, do you also have Athens, Babylon and Kathmandu?


Athens, Alabama
Athens, Arkansas
Athens, California
Athens, Georgia (the most well-known)
Athens, Illinois
Athens, Indiana
Athens, Kansas
Athens, Kentucky
Athens, Louisiana
Athens, Maine
Athens, Michigan
Athens, Minnesota
Athens, Mississippi
Athens, Missouri
Athens, New York
Athens, Ohio
Athens, Pennsylvania
Athens, Tennessee
Athens, Texas
Athens, Utah
Athens, Vermont
Athens, Virginia
Athens, West Virginia
Athens, Wisconsin


Babylon, New York
Bablyon, Illinois


>Nice place, the US, but I bet my cellar you don't have Rivalta.


No Kathmandu in the US, nor a Rivalta.


However, there are more Venices than the two well-known ones in Florida
and California:


Venice, Arkansas
Venice, Illinois
Venice, Louisiana
Venice, Missouri
Venice, Nebraska
Venice, Ohio
Venice, Pennsylvania
Venice, Utah
Venice, Washington


We even have a Venezia, Arizona.


Dimitri

In article >,
Vilco > wrote:
>"D. Gerasimatos" ha scritto
>
>> Here is an interesting question:
>> Where is the largest city named Newcastle in the world?
>> a. USA
>> b. South Africa
>> c. Australia
>> d. England
>
>Well, Castelnuovo in italian means Newcastle.
>10000 inhabitants. Did I win something?
>LOL


No. 10,000 doesn't cut it.


Dimitri

In article >,
Vilco > wrote:
>"Dale Williams" ha scritto
>
>> BTW, is Venice CA really a destination?
>
>Yes.
>Once, in Venice beach, Jim Morrison met his girlfriend.
>That's epic history, to me ;O)


More than that, Venice is where Jim Morrison ran into Ray Manzarek and the two
formed The Doors there.


Dimitri

(D. Gerasimatos) wrote:

> We even have a Venezia, Arizona.

Wow!

M.

"Vilco" > wrote:

> Well, Castelnuovo in italian means Newcastle. 10000 inhabitants.
> Did I win something?

Yes, a bottle of Neuburger, meaning "from the new castle" in
German, and being a white grape variety grown in Austria.

Which means we arrived on-topic again!

M.

Salut/Hi Vilco,

le/on Tue, 07 Oct 2003 22:13:34 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

>"D. Gerasimatos" ha scritto
>
>> Here is an interesting question:
>> Where is the largest city named Newcastle in the world?
>> a. USA
>> b. South Africa
>> c. Australia
>> d. England

What about Chteauneuf (du Pape - dragging this back on topic.). Actually
there's my Hungarian family name "Ujvár" which also means Newcastle.
Goodness _knows_ how many of those there are.

--
All the Best
Ian Hoare

Sometimes oi just sits and thinks
Sometimes oi just sits.