I am looking for a reputable shop in Venice from which to purchase a case
of wine to provide for some clients. Can anyone here steer me in the right
direction?

Thanks in advance

J Coulter

In article . 77>,
jcoulter > wrote:
>
>I am looking for a reputable shop in Venice from which to purchase a case
>of wine to provide for some clients. Can anyone here steer me in the right
>direction?
>
>Thanks in advance


Venice, Florida?

Venice, Italy?

Venice, California?

Other?


Dimitri

(D. Gerasimatos) wrote in
:

> In article . 77>,
> jcoulter > wrote:
>>
>>I am looking for a reputable shop in Venice from which to purchase a
>>case of wine to provide for some clients. Can anyone here steer me in
>>the right direction?
>>
>>Thanks in advance
>
>
> Venice, Florida?
>
> Venice, Italy?
>
> Venice, California?
>
> Other?
>
>
> Dimitri
>
>

Sorry, Venezia, Italia

On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 00:38:38 GMT, jcoulter
> wrote:

(D. Gerasimatos) wrote in
:
>
>> In article . 77>,
>> jcoulter > wrote:
>>>
>>>I am looking for a reputable shop in Venice from which to purchase a
>>>case of wine to provide for some clients. Can anyone here steer me in
>>>the right direction?
>>>
>>>Thanks in advance
>>
>>
>> Venice, Florida?
>>
>> Venice, Italy?
>>
>> Venice, California?
>>
>> Other?
>>
>>
>> Dimitri
>>
>>
>
>Sorry, Venezia, Italia

Mmm, granted I am not objective, Venezia being my city, but it seems
to me that if someone does not specify, Venice is in Italy, just as
Berlin is in Germany and London in England... ;-)))

The only place to buy wine in Venice, if you ask me, is Vino e...
Vini, at Castello 3299, you can call them at 0415210184, they are not
far from San MArco, on the Fondamenta dei Furlani, near the Scuola di
San Giorgio degli Schiavoni (worth seeing BTW). In the evening they
organize tastings. The guy that runs it is very good.

Mike

In article >,
Mike Tommasi > wrote:
>
>Mmm, granted I am not objective, Venezia being my city, but it seems
>to me that if someone does not specify, Venice is in Italy, just as
>Berlin is in Germany and London in England... ;-)))


No, you aren't objective. I typed "Venice" into Google. Of the first
10 hits, 6 referenced the city in Italy, 2 referenced the city in
Florida, and 2 referenced the city in California.


Typing in "Venice wine" gave me 8 in Italy and 2 in Florida. Both Venice,
FL and Venice, CA are destinations unlike, say, Paris, TX. Being in Italy
perhaps you do not realize that.


Dimitri

On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:12:50 +0000 (UTC),
(D. Gerasimatos) wrote:

>In article >,
>Mike Tommasi > wrote:
>>
>>Mmm, granted I am not objective, Venezia being my city, but it seems
>>to me that if someone does not specify, Venice is in Italy, just as
>>Berlin is in Germany and London in England... ;-)))
>
>
>No, you aren't objective. I typed "Venice" into Google. Of the first
>10 hits, 6 referenced the city in Italy, 2 referenced the city in
>Florida, and 2 referenced the city in California.

And what happened to Illinois? Seems like Google missed a few...
>
>
>Typing in "Venice wine" gave me 8 in Italy and 2 in Florida. Both Venice,
>FL and Venice, CA are destinations unlike, say, Paris, TX. Being in Italy
>perhaps you do not realize that.

Hi Dimitri

<JUST KIDDING>
I know it is not nice to call little places "little" or fat people
"fat", I apologize for the typically european arrogance of my reply,
apologies to the the mayors of Venice FL and CA, and Illinois too, I
did not intend to start some kind of spanish inquisition, any
belittling of the importance of their respective puny villages (sorry,
cities) in history and world affairs was absolutely unintentional. My
assuming that Venice meant Venice Italy is inexcusable, in the future
I shall look up Google and check if there can be any confusion between
the first place that comes to my small enfeebled mind and some
godforsaken ******** (sorry, there I go again, I meant remote quaint
community) located in, gosh, another continent for Pete's sake!

But, if I may abuse of your patience for a few seconds more, please
let me ask you a question or two.

When you read something about the Roman Empire, do you need to be told
Rome-Italy just in case there was any doubt that it might have been
Rome, NY that invaded Gaul, or that Rome, GA had developed a brave
squad of Rubicon-crossers?

When you read about the Queen in London, do you need to know that it
is London, England or might you doubt that Buckingham palace could
have moved to Ontario or Kentucky or Ohio?

When you read about Paris being a fashion center, do you need to have
it specified as Paris France, or is any one of the 6 US cities so
named seeing a large influx of strange clothes and anoretic women?

And just what is wrong with Paris TX, why is it not a destination but
Venice FL is?
</JUST KIDDING>

I guess Google hits are what defines objectivity today...

;-)))))

Mike

In article >,
Mike Tommasi > wrote:
>
[snip!]
>
>I guess Google hits are what defines objectivity today...
>
>;-)))))


No, just a general knowledge of geography and awareness of the world
around you. Isn't that what Americans are always accused of lacking?
Unlike your other examples (e.g. Rome) there are other cities named Venice
that are indeed travel destinations. While I can recommend a wine shop
in Venice, CA I am not so knowledgeable about wine shops in Venice, FL
(or Venice, Italy). Hence, I asked for a clarification.


Next someone is going to ask about wine shops in Valencia or in Orange
County.


Dimitri

Salut/Hi D. Gerasimatos,

le/on Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:12:50 +0000 (UTC), tu disais/you said:-

>In article >,
>Mike Tommasi > wrote:
>>
>>Mmm, granted I am not objective, Venezia being my city, but it seems
>>to me that if someone does not specify, Venice is in Italy, just as
>>Berlin is in Germany and London in England... ;-)))
>
>
>No, you aren't objective. I typed "Venice" into Google. Of the first
>10 hits, 6 referenced the city in Italy, 2 referenced the city in
>Florida, and 2 referenced the city in California.

That proves Mike's point, it seems to me. And even for an American,
comparing Venice FL with the city of the Doges and scene of Monteverdi's
greatest hour is going a touch far.

>FL and Venice, CA are destinations unlike, say, Paris, TX. Being in Italy
>perhaps you do not realize that.

He isn't, his origins are there, but he's lived in Canada, and currently
lives in Southern France. A better qualification for a balanced world view
than many, it seems to me.

--
All the Best
Ian Hoare

Sometimes oi just sits and thinks
Sometimes oi just sits.

Mike Tommasi > wrote in
:

> On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 00:38:38 GMT, jcoulter
> > wrote:
>
(D. Gerasimatos) wrote in
:
>>
>>> In article . 77>,
>>> jcoulter > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>I am looking for a reputable shop in Venice from which to purchase a
>>>>case of wine to provide for some clients. Can anyone here steer me
in
>>>>the right direction?
>>>>
>>>>Thanks in advance
>>>
>>>
>>> Venice, Florida?
>>>
>>> Venice, Italy?
>>>
>>> Venice, California?
>>>
>>> Other?
>>>
>>>
>>> Dimitri
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Sorry, Venezia, Italia
>
> Mmm, granted I am not objective, Venezia being my city, but it seems
> to me that if someone does not specify, Venice is in Italy, just as
> Berlin is in Germany and London in England... ;-)))
>
> The only place to buy wine in Venice, if you ask me, is Vino e...
> Vini, at Castello 3299, you can call them at 0415210184, they are not
> far from San MArco, on the Fondamenta dei Furlani, near the Scuola di
> San Giorgio degli Schiavoni (worth seeing BTW). In the evening they
> organize tastings. The guy that runs it is very good.
>
> Mike
>

Thank you Mike. I was hoping to avoid the major international incident
that I seemingly have caused, but things happen.

In article . 17>, jcoulter
> writes:

>hank you Mike. I was hoping to avoid the major international incident
>that I seemingly have caused, but things happen.

Hope Mike's merchant is helpful.

While it does behoove us all to remember this is an international group, I
don't think anyone seriously was confused about which Venice was being referred
to. Or maybe they were, in which case maybe producers should start putting on
"The Merchant of Venice (the one in Italy"), and whoever has the rights to
Thomas Mann's estate should have the book covers read "Death in Venice, Italy"

BTW, is Venice CA really a destination? Even a friend whose son lived in Venice
CA would say she was going to LA to visit him.

In any case, I'd just like to state for the record that if I forget to add NY,
when I say Manhattan that's the one I'm referring to, not the one in Kansas.

Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

What about Venice Florida. It is a destination......not for wine however.


"Dale Williams" > wrote in message
...
> In article . 17>, jcoulter
> > writes:
>
> >hank you Mike. I was hoping to avoid the major international incident
> >that I seemingly have caused, but things happen.
>
> Hope Mike's merchant is helpful.
>
> While it does behoove us all to remember this is an international group, I
> don't think anyone seriously was confused about which Venice was being
referred
> to. Or maybe they were, in which case maybe producers should start putting
on
> "The Merchant of Venice (the one in Italy"), and whoever has the rights to
> Thomas Mann's estate should have the book covers read "Death in Venice,
Italy"
>
> BTW, is Venice CA really a destination? Even a friend whose son lived in
Venice
> CA would say she was going to LA to visit him.
>
> In any case, I'd just like to state for the record that if I forget to add
NY,
> when I say Manhattan that's the one I'm referring to, not the one in
Kansas.
>
> Dale
>
> Dale Williams
> Drop "damnspam" to reply

"D. Gerasimatos" > wrote in message
...
>
> .......
> Typing in "Venice wine" gave me 8 in Italy and 2 in Florida. Both Venice,
> FL and Venice, CA are destinations unlike, say, Paris, TX. Being in Italy
> perhaps you do not realize that.
> .......
>

Not at all that simple. Google operates its search engines
with regard for the country of origin of the query, hence there
are multiple Googles: www.google.it, www.google.fr, etcetera.
If you request information on "Venice" from Google Italy
you will get different results from the same request in Google
France, and so forth. As you are in the US you connect to
Google USA. Being in the US perhaps you do not realize that.

pavane

Burton Anderson in the 2002 edition of the Wines of Italy recommends Al
Volto in Italy's
Venice. I last visited there in 1985 and don't recall much, except it was
dingy...........I much prefer the shops of Verona, Italy not New Jersey.
--
Joe "Beppe" Rosenberg
"Ian Hoare" > wrote in message
...
> Salut/Hi D. Gerasimatos,
>
> le/on Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:12:50 +0000 (UTC), tu disais/you said:-
>
> >In article >,
> >Mike Tommasi > wrote:
> >>
> >>Mmm, granted I am not objective, Venezia being my city, but it seems
> >>to me that if someone does not specify, Venice is in Italy, just as
> >>Berlin is in Germany and London in England... ;-)))
> >
> >
> >No, you aren't objective. I typed "Venice" into Google. Of the first
> >10 hits, 6 referenced the city in Italy, 2 referenced the city in
> >Florida, and 2 referenced the city in California.
>
> That proves Mike's point, it seems to me. And even for an American,
> comparing Venice FL with the city of the Doges and scene of Monteverdi's
> greatest hour is going a touch far.
>
> >FL and Venice, CA are destinations unlike, say, Paris, TX. Being in Italy
> >perhaps you do not realize that.
>
> He isn't, his origins are there, but he's lived in Canada, and currently
> lives in Southern France. A better qualification for a balanced world view
> than many, it seems to me.
>
> --
> All the Best
> Ian Hoare
>
> Sometimes oi just sits and thinks
> Sometimes oi just sits.

In article >,
pavane > wrote:
>
>Not at all that simple. Google operates its search engines
>with regard for the country of origin of the query, hence there
>are multiple Googles: www.google.it, www.google.fr, etcetera.
>If you request information on "Venice" from Google Italy
>you will get different results from the same request in Google
>France, and so forth. As you are in the US you connect to
>Google USA. Being in the US perhaps you do not realize that.


However, Usenet is international. My point in using Google was only to
show that in some countries/regions at least, it is not at all clear that
Venice is necessarily the city in Italy. It is not unreasonable at all to
ask for clarification.


Dimitri

In article >,
Dale Williams > wrote:
>
>While it does behoove us all to remember this is an international group, I
>don't think anyone seriously was confused about which Venice was being referred
>to.
>
>Or maybe they were, in which case maybe producers should start putting on
>"The Merchant of Venice (the one in Italy"), and whoever has the rights to
>Thomas Mann's estate should have the book covers read "Death in Venice, Italy"
>
>BTW, is Venice CA really a destination? Even a friend whose son lived in Venice
>CA would say she was going to LA to visit him.
>
>In any case, I'd just like to state for the record that if I forget to add NY,
>when I say Manhattan that's the one I'm referring to, not the one in Kansas.


I'd like to say that when I refer to Portland I mean OREGON and not MAINE.
However, I am sure you more often mean Maine. No?


From a post of yours:

"I had almost purchased the 1998 of this in Portland (where every store
seemed to carry)..."


Do you see why this is petty?


Dimitri

(D. Gerasimatos) wrote:

> However, Usenet is international. My point in using Google was
> only to show that in some countries/regions at least, it is not
> at all clear that Venice is necessarily the city in Italy. It is
> not unreasonable at all to ask for clarification.

It was, however, quite superfluous in this specific case, since
both the original poster and those who actually provided an answer
to the OP's question didn't need any clarification: All three were
well aware about Venice, without any need of extra clarification.

M.

In article >, (D.
Gerasimatos) writes:
>
>I'd like to say that when I refer to Portland I mean OREGON and not MAINE.
>However, I am sure you more often mean Maine. No?
>
>From a post of yours:
>
>"I had almost purchased the 1998 of this in Portland (where every store
> seemed to carry)..."
>
Sorry about that, I guess I assumed since I made that post the day after a
thread entitled "TN: Wines in Maine" folks would guess. It looks like the rest
of the times I've mentioned Portland ME , I apologize for this error!

Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 08:48:28 +0200, Mike Tommasi >
wrote:

>
>The only place to buy wine in Venice, if you ask me, is Vino e...
>Vini, at Castello 3299, you can call them at 0415210184, they are not
>far from San MArco, on the Fondamenta dei Furlani, near the Scuola di
>San Giorgio degli Schiavoni (worth seeing BTW). In the evening they
>organize tastings. The guy that runs it is very good.
>
>Mike

I also buy at this enoteca. The selection is excellent, but I think
the prices in Bologna, which is the other place I frequently visit,
are much better.

In article >,
Michael Pronay > wrote:
>
>It was, however, quite superfluous in this specific case, since
>both the original poster and those who actually provided an answer
>to the OP's question didn't need any clarification: All three were
>well aware about Venice, without any need of extra clarification.


How nice of you to speak for the entire audience of this newsgroup and
decide whether they needed clarification or not.


Dimitri

In article >,
Dale Williams > wrote:
>
>Sorry about that, I guess I assumed since I made that post the day after a
>thread entitled "TN: Wines in Maine" folks would guess. It looks like the rest
>of the times I've mentioned Portland ME , I apologize for this error!


The fact that you choose to be clear in your differentiation of Portland,
ME from Portland, OR is appreciated. You apparently wish to avoid
confusion. So why is it such an issue to ask someone else to be as clear?


Was it really necessary for a dozen people to show indignation that I
would ask? What would the peanut gallery have said if this guy really
*had* meant Venice, FL?


Which country do you think everythingvenice.com is inviting you to tour?
Apparently everyone on this group would guess Italy. Would that be
correct?


I am dismayed at the arrogance displayed here, but I guess that is to be
expected in a wine newsgroup.


Here is an interesting question:

Where is the largest city named Newcastle in the world?

a. USA
b. South Africa
c. Australia
d. England


Dimitri

On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 13:56:51 -0400, gerald > wrote:

>On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 08:48:28 +0200, Mike Tommasi >
>wrote:
>
>>
>>The only place to buy wine in Venice, if you ask me, is Vino e...
>>Vini, at Castello 3299, you can call them at 0415210184, they are not
>>far from San MArco, on the Fondamenta dei Furlani, near the Scuola di
>>San Giorgio degli Schiavoni (worth seeing BTW). In the evening they
>>organize tastings. The guy that runs it is very good.
>>
>>Mike
>
>I also buy at this enoteca. The selection is excellent, but I think
>the prices in Bologna, which is the other place I frequently visit,
>are much better.

Yes, everything is more expensive in Venice-ITALIA...

BTW, to which Bologna are you referring to, the city in Emilia Romagna
that is home to the world's oldest university and the world's best
tortellini, or Bologna, the capital of the Sandwich (Islands)?

And watch it, Bologna is not very far off from spam....

Mike
Provence, France (not Rhode Island)

On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 17:24:04 +0000 (UTC),
(D. Gerasimatos) wrote:


>
>I'd like to say that when I refer to Portland I mean OREGON and not MAINE.
>However, I am sure you more often mean Maine. No?

Do you mean Maine the US state or Maine the old french province where
a famous 24 hour car race takes place?

Try to be more precise in the future please.

Mike

Thanks for giving an answer to the original question. While I did not ask
the original question it was of interest to me because I will be there next
week.


"gerald" > wrote in message
news
> On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 08:48:28 +0200, Mike Tommasi >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >The only place to buy wine in Venice, if you ask me, is Vino e...
> >Vini, at Castello 3299, you can call them at 0415210184, they are not
> >far from San MArco, on the Fondamenta dei Furlani, near the Scuola di
> >San Giorgio degli Schiavoni (worth seeing BTW). In the evening they
> >organize tastings. The guy that runs it is very good.
> >
> >Mike
>
> I also buy at this enoteca. The selection is excellent, but I think
> the prices in Bologna, which is the other place I frequently visit,
> are much better.
>

In article >,
Steve Naïve > wrote:
(D. Gerasimatos) wrote in
:
>
>> Here is an interesting question:
>> Where is the largest city named Newcastle in the world?
>>
>> a. USA
>> b. South Africa
>> c. Australia
>> d. England
>
>b. South Africa - do I win five pounds (British pounds)


No, because that is incorrect. Australia is the correct answer.


Dimitri

In article >,
Mike Tommasi > wrote:
>On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 17:24:04 +0000 (UTC),
>(D. Gerasimatos) wrote:
>>
>>I'd like to say that when I refer to Portland I mean OREGON and not MAINE.
>>However, I am sure you more often mean Maine. No?
>
>Do you mean Maine the US state or Maine the old french province where
>a famous 24 hour car race takes place?
>
>Try to be more precise in the future please.


The one that has a Portland in it.


Dimitri

Salut/Hi D. Gerasimatos,

I'm sorry to see you take criticism so badly.

le/on Fri, 3 Oct 2003 18:57:49 +0000 (UTC), tu disais/you said:-

>Was it really necessary for a dozen people to show indignation that I
>would ask? What would the peanut gallery have said if this guy really
>*had* meant Venice, FL?


>Which country do you think everythingvenice.com is inviting you to tour?

Who cares. Travel companies and the Internet don't make up culture.

>I am dismayed at the arrogance displayed here, but I guess that is to be
>expected in a wine newsgroup.

No arrogance to say that "Venice" unqualified implies Italy, just as
"Washington" unqualified implies the capital of the USA and not a town in
the UK _even_ if the UK one is by far older.

>Here is an interesting question:

>Where is the largest city named Newcastle in the world?

Size isn't everything (as my Magnum murmurs to your Methusalem).

>d. England

Which one?

Sorry, but there's world of difference between Venice and Newcastle, as
anyone who likes music, art, sculpture, literature or knows any history can
tell you.
--
All the Best
Ian Hoare

Sometimes oi just sits and thinks
Sometimes oi just sits.

Ian,

The original posting was as follows:

"I am looking for a reputable shop in Venice from which to purchase a case
of wine to provide for some clients. Can anyone here steer me in the right
direction?"

The original poster did not indicate at that time that he was visiting
Italy...therefore it was totally appropriate to request clarification.

With regards to your statement Ian:

> No arrogance to say that "Venice" unqualified implies Italy, just as
> "Washington" unqualified implies the capital of the USA and not a town in
> the UK _even_ if the UK one is by far older.

That is not really accurate. If someone said on Vacation in Italy I went
to Venice then I would understand. When a person in California says I was
in Venice last week...I would not assume Italy. Of if a person in Tampa
Florida said I spent 3 days in Venice on business...I would assume Florida
as Venice is south about 60 to 90 Miles.

Since you live in Europe you might have made assumptions that not all would
make depending upon their locations.

The sheer number of assaulting posts on this subject is shameful.

I think many owe an apology to D. Gerasimatos. His posts are not
argumentative but makes a valid point.


"Ian Hoare" > wrote in message
...
> Salut/Hi D. Gerasimatos,
>
> I'm sorry to see you take criticism so badly.
>
> le/on Fri, 3 Oct 2003 18:57:49 +0000 (UTC), tu disais/you said:-
>
> >Was it really necessary for a dozen people to show indignation that I
> >would ask? What would the peanut gallery have said if this guy really
> >*had* meant Venice, FL?
>
>
> >Which country do you think everythingvenice.com is inviting you to tour?
>
> Who cares. Travel companies and the Internet don't make up culture.
>
> >I am dismayed at the arrogance displayed here, but I guess that is to be
> >expected in a wine newsgroup.
>
> No arrogance to say that "Venice" unqualified implies Italy, just as
> "Washington" unqualified implies the capital of the USA and not a town in
> the UK _even_ if the UK one is by far older.
>
> >Here is an interesting question:
>
> >Where is the largest city named Newcastle in the world?
>
> Size isn't everything (as my Magnum murmurs to your Methusalem).
>
> >d. England
>
> Which one?
>
> Sorry, but there's world of difference between Venice and Newcastle, as
> anyone who likes music, art, sculpture, literature or knows any history
can
> tell you.
> --
> All the Best
> Ian Hoare
>
> Sometimes oi just sits and thinks
> Sometimes oi just sits.

"dick" > wrote:

>> No arrogance to say that "Venice" unqualified implies Italy,
>> just as "Washington" unqualified implies the capital of the USA
>> and not a town in the UK _even_ if the UK one is by far older.

> That is not really accurate.

That *is* accurate.

> If someone said on Vacation in Italy I went to Venice then I
> would understand. When a person in California says I was in
> Venice last week...I would not assume Italy. Of if a person in
> Tampa Florida said I spent 3 days in Venice on business...I
> would assume Florida as Venice is south about 60 to 90 Miles.

All true. But if someone does not specify anything at all, I am
100 percent with Ian assuming it's Venezia.

M.

If they had said Venezia vs. Venice...I would have agreed with you. But
Venice is also here in the USA In several states.

I have been to Fla and Ca. Fla is very nice. Sorry.

If you as a Austrian said you were going to Venice I would assume Italy. If
J. Coulter said he was going to Venice... I would assume USA unless
specified.

Come on now...why did this comment from a new poster have to become a
****ing contest?
"Michael Pronay" > wrote in message
...
> "dick" > wrote:
>
> >> No arrogance to say that "Venice" unqualified implies Italy,
> >> just as "Washington" unqualified implies the capital of the USA
> >> and not a town in the UK _even_ if the UK one is by far older.
>
> > That is not really accurate.
>
> That *is* accurate.
>
> > If someone said on Vacation in Italy I went to Venice then I
> > would understand. When a person in California says I was in
> > Venice last week...I would not assume Italy. Of if a person in
> > Tampa Florida said I spent 3 days in Venice on business...I
> > would assume Florida as Venice is south about 60 to 90 Miles.
>
> All true. But if someone does not specify anything at all, I am
> 100 percent with Ian assuming it's Venezia.
>
> M.

"dick" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
>
> I think many owe an apology to D. Gerasimatos. His posts are not
> argumentative but makes a valid point.
>

I do not see any reason for apology. Both his posts and
yours are contentious displays of obnoxious pedantry,
useful to no one save your own miscalibrated egos. Duh,
if its in America its gotta be the one you think of. Yeah!


pavane

No. My ego is not the one that has a problem. I believe that D.
Gerasimatos asked a legit question to clarify which it was.

The failure to do so has now been debated. I don't think that J. Coulter
ever planned to make his posting in any way controversial. But if someone
did not understand and asked for clarity...what is the problem?

As for your unwarranted assault all I can say is perhaps you don't
understand the point. Perhaps you don't understand many points but this was
a question of wine in Venice not "Pavanes Stupidity and Name Calling."


"pavane" > wrote in message
om...
>
> "dick" > wrote in message
> hlink.net...
> >
> > I think many owe an apology to D. Gerasimatos. His posts are not
> > argumentative but makes a valid point.
> >
>
> I do not see any reason for apology. Both his posts and
> yours are contentious displays of obnoxious pedantry,
> useful to no one save your own miscalibrated egos. Duh,
> if its in America its gotta be the one you think of. Yeah!
>
>
> pavane
>
>

"dick" > wrote:

> If they had said Venezia vs. Venice...

This was definitely not my point.

If you are not willing to read my post carefully, I can't help.

EOD from my side.

M.

I understand your post. I just disagree.

Now had they said, "ahh venice" I would have understood that.

I really think this is due to where you are and the internet and usenet is
not a perfect means of communication.

The only issue I have is that if he the poster asked for clarification
before he were to respond...was there any harm in his asking for
clarification?

Then for his asking he in essence gets bashed. I think that is rude and
inappropiate behavior.

EOD.

Dick

"Michael Pronay" > wrote in message
...
> "dick" > wrote:
>
> > If they had said Venezia vs. Venice...
>
> This was definitely not my point.
>
> If you are not willing to read my post carefully, I can't help.
>
> EOD from my side.
>
> M.

In article k.net>, "dick"
> writes:

>he the poster asked for clarification
>before he were to respond...was there any harm in his asking for
>clarification?
>
>Then for his asking he in essence gets bashed. I think that is rude and
>inappropiate behavior.
>

Dick,

I've been trying not to reenter this thread (I'm still smarting from
embarassment that one time I forgot to add ME to Portland!). But I can never
keep my mouth shut, so lets's review. After Dimitri's request for
"clarification", Mike answered:

"Mmm, granted I am not objective, Venezia being my city, but it seems
to me that if someone does not specify, Venice is in Italy, just as
Berlin is in Germany and London in England... ;-)))"

Note the emoticon. Mike then gave jcoulter a shop in Venice to try.. Sounds
pretty polite to me.

Dimitri (not a new poster, been around for a while, btw , and one whose posts I
have found useful in the past), responded with a statement that Mike wasn't
objective and a list of Google hits. Personally, if he (or anyone else here)
REALLY thought the OP meant Venice CA (though why anyone would limit themselves
to shops in Venice, since Venice is next to Santa Monica- greater LA to most of
us) or Venice FL they could just give suggestions.

Personally, though I live within US, I have never heard someone outside of
Florida or California refer to an unqualified "Venice" and not mean Venice,
Italy. Maybe we could have our first ever AFW public opinion poll. Everyone ask
5 acquaintances what they would think of a trip to Venice. See which Venice
people think they're talking about.

In any case I think that AFW can do without
Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

In article k.net>, Dwmidnt
writes:

>In any case I think that AFW can do without

Oops, premature ej..I mean premature posting.

I meant to say AFW can do without namecalling and derision. Even if we disagree
let's try to be semi-mature about it. Thanks all.
Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

In article >,
Ian Hoare > wrote:
>
[snip!]
>
>No arrogance to say that "Venice" unqualified implies Italy, just as
>"Washington" unqualified implies the capital of the USA and not a town in
>the UK _even_ if the UK one is by far older.


Washington unqualified is probably more likely to mean the state of
Washington rather than D.C. in the United States. See how different
people can have different ideas of things that might seem so obvious?


If you asked for a wine shop in Washington my first inclination would be
to think you are asking about Washington state, when obviously you would think
you were asking about shops in Washington, D.C. A resident in Virginia or
Maryland might have a different idea, of course.


Just as Venice unqualified is confusing, so is Washington unqualified. I
am glad you brought up this example, because the fact that you see no
ambiguity in the place name "Washington" illustrates my point well.


>Sorry, but there's world of difference between Venice and Newcastle, as
>anyone who likes music, art, sculpture, literature or knows any history can
>tell you.


That may be true. No one was comparing the cities. Unfortunately, there is
more than one city named Venice that springs to mind when the name is
mentioned. Venice, Italy is probably the most commonly thought of, but not the
only, option. Asking for clarification does no harm, except apparently to
the egos of Europeans who are aghast that their great city might be mistaken
for any other by name. Well, it can be.


Dimitri

Salut/Hi D. Gerasimatos,

le/on Sun, 5 Oct 2003 06:51:29 +0000 (UTC), tu disais/you said:-

>In article >,
>Ian Hoare > wrote:
>>
>[snip!]
>>
>>No arrogance to say that "Venice" unqualified implies Italy, just as
>>"Washington" unqualified implies the capital of the USA and not a town in
>>the UK _even_ if the UK one is by far older.
>
>
>Washington unqualified is probably more likely to mean the state of
>Washington rather than D.C. in the United States. See how different
>people can have different ideas of things that might seem so obvious?

Fair point. And if I were (shall be) travelling to Washington I'd
_probably_ (though I'm as perfectly capable of forgetting to add DC as I am
of forgetting to drink the coffee I've got in front of me!) either say
"state" or DC. But if I didn't, I'd live with someone answering either, and
accept I'd been ambiguous! BUT, my point is more that no way would I expect
you or any one else to think that I meant Washington in NE England. And
that's really my point. Venice - internationally speaking - is so far more
significant than the towns in FL or CA, that it's perfectly reasonable to
assume Italy - especially on an _international_ NG. Honestly, even if afw
were purely american, I'd be prepared to bet that more than half would take
Venice (unqualified) to mean the city of the Doges.

If I quote MT's original comment

>Mmm, granted I am not objective, Venezia being my city, but it seems
>to me that if someone does not specify, Venice is in Italy, just as
>Berlin is in Germany and London in England... ;-)))

I don't think anyone reading that can claim it was arrogant, contentious or
or other than made with a "friendly wink"- hence the emoticon.

In that context therefore, I felt (and feel) that your subsequent posts
have been unhelpfully chauvinist.

>That may be true. No one was comparing the cities. Unfortunately, there is
>more than one city named Venice that springs to mind when the name is
>mentioned.

No, Ed, ONLY to an American. To anyone else in the world, Venice FL and
Venice CA are is insignificant and irrelevant as Washington Tyne & Weir and
Washington West Sussex are to anyone outside the UK. And you make that
point brilliantly.

>only, option. Asking for clarification does no harm, except apparently to
>the egos of Europeans who are aghast that their great city might be mistaken
>for any other by name. Well, it can be.

Only by an American, and I think it's fair to riposte that only in America
would anyone make such an ill tempered issue of it, without becoming a
laughing stock immediately. It's not about European's egos, it's about
keeping a reasonable international perspective, which would NOT appear to
be a strong point amongst several contributors here.

--
All the Best
Ian Hoare

Sometimes oi just sits and thinks
Sometimes oi just sits.

OK...I agree. But again one final point.

M. Tommassi provided names for Venice Italy. I would have provided the
same one M. Tommassi did therefore I did not reply.

However when another poster asked for clarification I did not feel that was
wrong. What I want to know is why did others belabour that issue so much
that this tread is so long.

What is wrong with asking that question. I have heard you numerous time ask
a poster when he asks about a wine what country is he before responding.
Please advice.





"Dale Williams" > wrote in message
...
> In article k.net>,
Dwmidnt
> writes:
>
> >In any case I think that AFW can do without
>
> Oops, premature ej..I mean premature posting.
>
> I meant to say AFW can do without namecalling and derision. Even if we
disagree
> let's try to be semi-mature about it. Thanks all.
> Dale
>
> Dale Williams
> Drop "damnspam" to reply

Salut/Hi Dale Williams,

Thanks!

le/on 05 Oct 2003 03:47:36 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

>In article k.net>, "dick"
> writes:

I might have expected Dick would come roaring in here.

>>he the poster asked for clarification
>>before he were to respond...was there any harm in his asking for
>>clarification?

>>Then for his asking he in essence gets bashed. I think that is rude and
>>inappropiate behavior.

I'm afraid that Dick's perspective on this is extremely Americo-centric and
unhelpful. It's typically inaccurate as well.

>Dimitri (not a new poster, been around for a while, btw ,

Certainly. Did Dick suggest otherwise (he's still in my kill file, so I
only ever read him via others' quotes)?

>Personally, though I live within US, I have never heard someone outside of
>Florida or California refer to an unqualified "Venice" and not mean Venice,
>Italy. Maybe we could have our first ever AFW public opinion poll. Everyone ask
>5 acquaintances what they would think of a trip to Venice. See which Venice
>people think they're talking about.

There's not much point in us Europeans taking part, as I don't think anyone
over here had even _heard_ of either of these two American towns (honestly
- I'm not being in any way snide or unpleasant) before this episode.

> In any case I think that AFW can do without without namecalling and derision. Even if we disagree
> let's try to be semi-mature about it. Thanks all.

One reason I killfiled Neidich, is because he seems unable to tolerate what
he sees as criticism of the US (though why this thread should be so
conisidered is beyond me) without descending to name calling. I don't
regard it as anti-British because Americans have never heard of Washington
Tyne & Wear (whew, finally spelled it right).

--
All the Best
Ian Hoare

Sometimes oi just sits and thinks
Sometimes oi just sits.

Let me get this straight.

1) I take issue because a poster asked for clarification and he gets
bashed.

2) I ask what reason would anyone take issue with someone requesting
clarification

3) You relate the two points above to me being American-Centric?

I think that is ridiculous in total. My statements had nothing to do with
US-Euro relations. It was simply a point that even if 99% of us would think
that when someone states Venice...and likely means Venice Italy, why would
anyone blast and debate and other for a point of clarity.

Ian, I think you are far off base here. I hope someone in this group will
respond so that Ian understands my point. I could care less about Venice
specifically but more about this issue of clarity being at issue.



"Ian Hoare" > wrote in message
...
> Salut/Hi Dale Williams,
>
> Thanks!
>
> le/on 05 Oct 2003 03:47:36 GMT, tu disais/you said:-
>
> >In article k.net>,
"dick"
> > writes:
>
> I might have expected Dick would come roaring in here.
>
> >>he the poster asked for clarification
> >>before he were to respond...was there any harm in his asking for
> >>clarification?
>
> >>Then for his asking he in essence gets bashed. I think that is rude and
> >>inappropiate behavior.
>
> I'm afraid that Dick's perspective on this is extremely Americo-centric
and
> unhelpful. It's typically inaccurate as well.
>
> >Dimitri (not a new poster, been around for a while, btw ,
>
> Certainly. Did Dick suggest otherwise (he's still in my kill file, so I
> only ever read him via others' quotes)?
>
> >Personally, though I live within US, I have never heard someone outside
of
> >Florida or California refer to an unqualified "Venice" and not mean
Venice,
> >Italy. Maybe we could have our first ever AFW public opinion poll.
Everyone ask
> >5 acquaintances what they would think of a trip to Venice. See which
Venice
> >people think they're talking about.
>
> There's not much point in us Europeans taking part, as I don't think
anyone
> over here had even _heard_ of either of these two American towns (honestly
> - I'm not being in any way snide or unpleasant) before this episode.
>
> > In any case I think that AFW can do without without namecalling and
derision. Even if we disagree
> > let's try to be semi-mature about it. Thanks all.
>
> One reason I killfiled Neidich, is because he seems unable to tolerate
what
> he sees as criticism of the US (though why this thread should be so
> conisidered is beyond me) without descending to name calling. I don't
> regard it as anti-British because Americans have never heard of Washington
> Tyne & Wear (whew, finally spelled it right).
>
> --
> All the Best
> Ian Hoare
>
> Sometimes oi just sits and thinks
> Sometimes oi just sits.