In article . 17>, jcoulter
> writes:

>hank you Mike. I was hoping to avoid the major international incident
>that I seemingly have caused, but things happen.

Hope Mike's merchant is helpful.

While it does behoove us all to remember this is an international group, I
don't think anyone seriously was confused about which Venice was being referred
to. Or maybe they were, in which case maybe producers should start putting on
"The Merchant of Venice (the one in Italy"), and whoever has the rights to
Thomas Mann's estate should have the book covers read "Death in Venice, Italy"

BTW, is Venice CA really a destination? Even a friend whose son lived in Venice
CA would say she was going to LA to visit him.

In any case, I'd just like to state for the record that if I forget to add NY,
when I say Manhattan that's the one I'm referring to, not the one in Kansas.

Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

What about Venice Florida. It is a destination......not for wine however.


"Dale Williams" > wrote in message
...
> In article . 17>, jcoulter
> > writes:
>
> >hank you Mike. I was hoping to avoid the major international incident
> >that I seemingly have caused, but things happen.
>
> Hope Mike's merchant is helpful.
>
> While it does behoove us all to remember this is an international group, I
> don't think anyone seriously was confused about which Venice was being
referred
> to. Or maybe they were, in which case maybe producers should start putting
on
> "The Merchant of Venice (the one in Italy"), and whoever has the rights to
> Thomas Mann's estate should have the book covers read "Death in Venice,
Italy"
>
> BTW, is Venice CA really a destination? Even a friend whose son lived in
Venice
> CA would say she was going to LA to visit him.
>
> In any case, I'd just like to state for the record that if I forget to add
NY,
> when I say Manhattan that's the one I'm referring to, not the one in
Kansas.
>
> Dale
>
> Dale Williams
> Drop "damnspam" to reply

In article >,
Dale Williams > wrote:
>
>While it does behoove us all to remember this is an international group, I
>don't think anyone seriously was confused about which Venice was being referred
>to.
>
>Or maybe they were, in which case maybe producers should start putting on
>"The Merchant of Venice (the one in Italy"), and whoever has the rights to
>Thomas Mann's estate should have the book covers read "Death in Venice, Italy"
>
>BTW, is Venice CA really a destination? Even a friend whose son lived in Venice
>CA would say she was going to LA to visit him.
>
>In any case, I'd just like to state for the record that if I forget to add NY,
>when I say Manhattan that's the one I'm referring to, not the one in Kansas.


I'd like to say that when I refer to Portland I mean OREGON and not MAINE.
However, I am sure you more often mean Maine. No?


From a post of yours:

"I had almost purchased the 1998 of this in Portland (where every store
seemed to carry)..."


Do you see why this is petty?


Dimitri

In article >, (D.
Gerasimatos) writes:
>
>I'd like to say that when I refer to Portland I mean OREGON and not MAINE.
>However, I am sure you more often mean Maine. No?
>
>From a post of yours:
>
>"I had almost purchased the 1998 of this in Portland (where every store
> seemed to carry)..."
>
Sorry about that, I guess I assumed since I made that post the day after a
thread entitled "TN: Wines in Maine" folks would guess. It looks like the rest
of the times I've mentioned Portland ME , I apologize for this error!

Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

In article >,
Dale Williams > wrote:
>
>Sorry about that, I guess I assumed since I made that post the day after a
>thread entitled "TN: Wines in Maine" folks would guess. It looks like the rest
>of the times I've mentioned Portland ME , I apologize for this error!


The fact that you choose to be clear in your differentiation of Portland,
ME from Portland, OR is appreciated. You apparently wish to avoid
confusion. So why is it such an issue to ask someone else to be as clear?


Was it really necessary for a dozen people to show indignation that I
would ask? What would the peanut gallery have said if this guy really
*had* meant Venice, FL?


Which country do you think everythingvenice.com is inviting you to tour?
Apparently everyone on this group would guess Italy. Would that be
correct?


I am dismayed at the arrogance displayed here, but I guess that is to be
expected in a wine newsgroup.


Here is an interesting question:

Where is the largest city named Newcastle in the world?

a. USA
b. South Africa
c. Australia
d. England


Dimitri

Salut/Hi D. Gerasimatos,

I'm sorry to see you take criticism so badly.

le/on Fri, 3 Oct 2003 18:57:49 +0000 (UTC), tu disais/you said:-

>Was it really necessary for a dozen people to show indignation that I
>would ask? What would the peanut gallery have said if this guy really
>*had* meant Venice, FL?


>Which country do you think everythingvenice.com is inviting you to tour?

Who cares. Travel companies and the Internet don't make up culture.

>I am dismayed at the arrogance displayed here, but I guess that is to be
>expected in a wine newsgroup.

No arrogance to say that "Venice" unqualified implies Italy, just as
"Washington" unqualified implies the capital of the USA and not a town in
the UK _even_ if the UK one is by far older.

>Here is an interesting question:

>Where is the largest city named Newcastle in the world?

Size isn't everything (as my Magnum murmurs to your Methusalem).

>d. England

Which one?

Sorry, but there's world of difference between Venice and Newcastle, as
anyone who likes music, art, sculpture, literature or knows any history can
tell you.
--
All the Best
Ian Hoare

Sometimes oi just sits and thinks
Sometimes oi just sits.

Ian,

The original posting was as follows:

"I am looking for a reputable shop in Venice from which to purchase a case
of wine to provide for some clients. Can anyone here steer me in the right
direction?"

The original poster did not indicate at that time that he was visiting
Italy...therefore it was totally appropriate to request clarification.

With regards to your statement Ian:

> No arrogance to say that "Venice" unqualified implies Italy, just as
> "Washington" unqualified implies the capital of the USA and not a town in
> the UK _even_ if the UK one is by far older.

That is not really accurate. If someone said on Vacation in Italy I went
to Venice then I would understand. When a person in California says I was
in Venice last week...I would not assume Italy. Of if a person in Tampa
Florida said I spent 3 days in Venice on business...I would assume Florida
as Venice is south about 60 to 90 Miles.

Since you live in Europe you might have made assumptions that not all would
make depending upon their locations.

The sheer number of assaulting posts on this subject is shameful.

I think many owe an apology to D. Gerasimatos. His posts are not
argumentative but makes a valid point.


"Ian Hoare" > wrote in message
...
> Salut/Hi D. Gerasimatos,
>
> I'm sorry to see you take criticism so badly.
>
> le/on Fri, 3 Oct 2003 18:57:49 +0000 (UTC), tu disais/you said:-
>
> >Was it really necessary for a dozen people to show indignation that I
> >would ask? What would the peanut gallery have said if this guy really
> >*had* meant Venice, FL?
>
>
> >Which country do you think everythingvenice.com is inviting you to tour?
>
> Who cares. Travel companies and the Internet don't make up culture.
>
> >I am dismayed at the arrogance displayed here, but I guess that is to be
> >expected in a wine newsgroup.
>
> No arrogance to say that "Venice" unqualified implies Italy, just as
> "Washington" unqualified implies the capital of the USA and not a town in
> the UK _even_ if the UK one is by far older.
>
> >Here is an interesting question:
>
> >Where is the largest city named Newcastle in the world?
>
> Size isn't everything (as my Magnum murmurs to your Methusalem).
>
> >d. England
>
> Which one?
>
> Sorry, but there's world of difference between Venice and Newcastle, as
> anyone who likes music, art, sculpture, literature or knows any history
can
> tell you.
> --
> All the Best
> Ian Hoare
>
> Sometimes oi just sits and thinks
> Sometimes oi just sits.

"dick" > wrote:

>> No arrogance to say that "Venice" unqualified implies Italy,
>> just as "Washington" unqualified implies the capital of the USA
>> and not a town in the UK _even_ if the UK one is by far older.

> That is not really accurate.

That *is* accurate.

> If someone said on Vacation in Italy I went to Venice then I
> would understand. When a person in California says I was in
> Venice last week...I would not assume Italy. Of if a person in
> Tampa Florida said I spent 3 days in Venice on business...I
> would assume Florida as Venice is south about 60 to 90 Miles.

All true. But if someone does not specify anything at all, I am
100 percent with Ian assuming it's Venezia.

M.

"dick" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
>
> I think many owe an apology to D. Gerasimatos. His posts are not
> argumentative but makes a valid point.
>

I do not see any reason for apology. Both his posts and
yours are contentious displays of obnoxious pedantry,
useful to no one save your own miscalibrated egos. Duh,
if its in America its gotta be the one you think of. Yeah!


pavane

In article >,
Ian Hoare > wrote:
>
[snip!]
>
>No arrogance to say that "Venice" unqualified implies Italy, just as
>"Washington" unqualified implies the capital of the USA and not a town in
>the UK _even_ if the UK one is by far older.


Washington unqualified is probably more likely to mean the state of
Washington rather than D.C. in the United States. See how different
people can have different ideas of things that might seem so obvious?


If you asked for a wine shop in Washington my first inclination would be
to think you are asking about Washington state, when obviously you would think
you were asking about shops in Washington, D.C. A resident in Virginia or
Maryland might have a different idea, of course.


Just as Venice unqualified is confusing, so is Washington unqualified. I
am glad you brought up this example, because the fact that you see no
ambiguity in the place name "Washington" illustrates my point well.


>Sorry, but there's world of difference between Venice and Newcastle, as
>anyone who likes music, art, sculpture, literature or knows any history can
>tell you.


That may be true. No one was comparing the cities. Unfortunately, there is
more than one city named Venice that springs to mind when the name is
mentioned. Venice, Italy is probably the most commonly thought of, but not the
only, option. Asking for clarification does no harm, except apparently to
the egos of Europeans who are aghast that their great city might be mistaken
for any other by name. Well, it can be.


Dimitri

Salut/Hi D. Gerasimatos,

le/on Sun, 5 Oct 2003 06:51:29 +0000 (UTC), tu disais/you said:-

>In article >,
>Ian Hoare > wrote:
>>
>[snip!]
>>
>>No arrogance to say that "Venice" unqualified implies Italy, just as
>>"Washington" unqualified implies the capital of the USA and not a town in
>>the UK _even_ if the UK one is by far older.
>
>
>Washington unqualified is probably more likely to mean the state of
>Washington rather than D.C. in the United States. See how different
>people can have different ideas of things that might seem so obvious?

Fair point. And if I were (shall be) travelling to Washington I'd
_probably_ (though I'm as perfectly capable of forgetting to add DC as I am
of forgetting to drink the coffee I've got in front of me!) either say
"state" or DC. But if I didn't, I'd live with someone answering either, and
accept I'd been ambiguous! BUT, my point is more that no way would I expect
you or any one else to think that I meant Washington in NE England. And
that's really my point. Venice - internationally speaking - is so far more
significant than the towns in FL or CA, that it's perfectly reasonable to
assume Italy - especially on an _international_ NG. Honestly, even if afw
were purely american, I'd be prepared to bet that more than half would take
Venice (unqualified) to mean the city of the Doges.

If I quote MT's original comment

>Mmm, granted I am not objective, Venezia being my city, but it seems
>to me that if someone does not specify, Venice is in Italy, just as
>Berlin is in Germany and London in England... ;-)))

I don't think anyone reading that can claim it was arrogant, contentious or
or other than made with a "friendly wink"- hence the emoticon.

In that context therefore, I felt (and feel) that your subsequent posts
have been unhelpfully chauvinist.

>That may be true. No one was comparing the cities. Unfortunately, there is
>more than one city named Venice that springs to mind when the name is
>mentioned.

No, Ed, ONLY to an American. To anyone else in the world, Venice FL and
Venice CA are is insignificant and irrelevant as Washington Tyne & Weir and
Washington West Sussex are to anyone outside the UK. And you make that
point brilliantly.

>only, option. Asking for clarification does no harm, except apparently to
>the egos of Europeans who are aghast that their great city might be mistaken
>for any other by name. Well, it can be.

Only by an American, and I think it's fair to riposte that only in America
would anyone make such an ill tempered issue of it, without becoming a
laughing stock immediately. It's not about European's egos, it's about
keeping a reasonable international perspective, which would NOT appear to
be a strong point amongst several contributors here.

--
All the Best
Ian Hoare

Sometimes oi just sits and thinks
Sometimes oi just sits.

"D. Gerasimatos" ha scritto

> Here is an interesting question:
> Where is the largest city named Newcastle in the world?
> a. USA
> b. South Africa
> c. Australia
> d. England

Well, Castelnuovo in italian means Newcastle.
10000 inhabitants. Did I win something?
LOL

Vilco

In article >,
Vilco > wrote:
>"D. Gerasimatos" ha scritto
>
>> Here is an interesting question:
>> Where is the largest city named Newcastle in the world?
>> a. USA
>> b. South Africa
>> c. Australia
>> d. England
>
>Well, Castelnuovo in italian means Newcastle.
>10000 inhabitants. Did I win something?
>LOL


No. 10,000 doesn't cut it.


Dimitri

"Vilco" > wrote:

> Well, Castelnuovo in italian means Newcastle. 10000 inhabitants.
> Did I win something?

Yes, a bottle of Neuburger, meaning "from the new castle" in
German, and being a white grape variety grown in Austria.

Which means we arrived on-topic again!

M.

Salut/Hi Vilco,

le/on Tue, 07 Oct 2003 22:13:34 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

>"D. Gerasimatos" ha scritto
>
>> Here is an interesting question:
>> Where is the largest city named Newcastle in the world?
>> a. USA
>> b. South Africa
>> c. Australia
>> d. England

What about Chteauneuf (du Pape - dragging this back on topic.). Actually
there's my Hungarian family name "Ujvár" which also means Newcastle.
Goodness _knows_ how many of those there are.

--
All the Best
Ian Hoare

Sometimes oi just sits and thinks
Sometimes oi just sits.

On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 17:24:04 +0000 (UTC),
(D. Gerasimatos) wrote:


>
>I'd like to say that when I refer to Portland I mean OREGON and not MAINE.
>However, I am sure you more often mean Maine. No?

Do you mean Maine the US state or Maine the old french province where
a famous 24 hour car race takes place?

Try to be more precise in the future please.

Mike

In article >,
Mike Tommasi > wrote:
>On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 17:24:04 +0000 (UTC),
>(D. Gerasimatos) wrote:
>>
>>I'd like to say that when I refer to Portland I mean OREGON and not MAINE.
>>However, I am sure you more often mean Maine. No?
>
>Do you mean Maine the US state or Maine the old french province where
>a famous 24 hour car race takes place?
>
>Try to be more precise in the future please.


The one that has a Portland in it.


Dimitri

"Dale Williams" ha scritto

> BTW, is Venice CA really a destination?

Yes.
Once, in Venice beach, Jim Morrison met his girlfriend.
That's epic history, to me ;O)

Vilco

In article >,
Vilco > wrote:
>"Dale Williams" ha scritto
>
>> BTW, is Venice CA really a destination?
>
>Yes.
>Once, in Venice beach, Jim Morrison met his girlfriend.
>That's epic history, to me ;O)


More than that, Venice is where Jim Morrison ran into Ray Manzarek and the two
formed The Doors there.


Dimitri