Ian,

The original posting was as follows:

"I am looking for a reputable shop in Venice from which to purchase a case
of wine to provide for some clients. Can anyone here steer me in the right
direction?"

The original poster did not indicate at that time that he was visiting
Italy...therefore it was totally appropriate to request clarification.

With regards to your statement Ian:

> No arrogance to say that "Venice" unqualified implies Italy, just as
> "Washington" unqualified implies the capital of the USA and not a town in
> the UK _even_ if the UK one is by far older.

That is not really accurate. If someone said on Vacation in Italy I went
to Venice then I would understand. When a person in California says I was
in Venice last week...I would not assume Italy. Of if a person in Tampa
Florida said I spent 3 days in Venice on business...I would assume Florida
as Venice is south about 60 to 90 Miles.

Since you live in Europe you might have made assumptions that not all would
make depending upon their locations.

The sheer number of assaulting posts on this subject is shameful.

I think many owe an apology to D. Gerasimatos. His posts are not
argumentative but makes a valid point.


"Ian Hoare" > wrote in message
...
> Salut/Hi D. Gerasimatos,
>
> I'm sorry to see you take criticism so badly.
>
> le/on Fri, 3 Oct 2003 18:57:49 +0000 (UTC), tu disais/you said:-
>
> >Was it really necessary for a dozen people to show indignation that I
> >would ask? What would the peanut gallery have said if this guy really
> >*had* meant Venice, FL?
>
>
> >Which country do you think everythingvenice.com is inviting you to tour?
>
> Who cares. Travel companies and the Internet don't make up culture.
>
> >I am dismayed at the arrogance displayed here, but I guess that is to be
> >expected in a wine newsgroup.
>
> No arrogance to say that "Venice" unqualified implies Italy, just as
> "Washington" unqualified implies the capital of the USA and not a town in
> the UK _even_ if the UK one is by far older.
>
> >Here is an interesting question:
>
> >Where is the largest city named Newcastle in the world?
>
> Size isn't everything (as my Magnum murmurs to your Methusalem).
>
> >d. England
>
> Which one?
>
> Sorry, but there's world of difference between Venice and Newcastle, as
> anyone who likes music, art, sculpture, literature or knows any history
can
> tell you.
> --
> All the Best
> Ian Hoare
>
> Sometimes oi just sits and thinks
> Sometimes oi just sits.

"dick" > wrote:

>> No arrogance to say that "Venice" unqualified implies Italy,
>> just as "Washington" unqualified implies the capital of the USA
>> and not a town in the UK _even_ if the UK one is by far older.

> That is not really accurate.

That *is* accurate.

> If someone said on Vacation in Italy I went to Venice then I
> would understand. When a person in California says I was in
> Venice last week...I would not assume Italy. Of if a person in
> Tampa Florida said I spent 3 days in Venice on business...I
> would assume Florida as Venice is south about 60 to 90 Miles.

All true. But if someone does not specify anything at all, I am
100 percent with Ian assuming it's Venezia.

M.

If they had said Venezia vs. Venice...I would have agreed with you. But
Venice is also here in the USA In several states.

I have been to Fla and Ca. Fla is very nice. Sorry.

If you as a Austrian said you were going to Venice I would assume Italy. If
J. Coulter said he was going to Venice... I would assume USA unless
specified.

Come on now...why did this comment from a new poster have to become a
****ing contest?
"Michael Pronay" > wrote in message
...
> "dick" > wrote:
>
> >> No arrogance to say that "Venice" unqualified implies Italy,
> >> just as "Washington" unqualified implies the capital of the USA
> >> and not a town in the UK _even_ if the UK one is by far older.
>
> > That is not really accurate.
>
> That *is* accurate.
>
> > If someone said on Vacation in Italy I went to Venice then I
> > would understand. When a person in California says I was in
> > Venice last week...I would not assume Italy. Of if a person in
> > Tampa Florida said I spent 3 days in Venice on business...I
> > would assume Florida as Venice is south about 60 to 90 Miles.
>
> All true. But if someone does not specify anything at all, I am
> 100 percent with Ian assuming it's Venezia.
>
> M.

"dick" > wrote:

> If they had said Venezia vs. Venice...

This was definitely not my point.

If you are not willing to read my post carefully, I can't help.

EOD from my side.

M.

I understand your post. I just disagree.

Now had they said, "ahh venice" I would have understood that.

I really think this is due to where you are and the internet and usenet is
not a perfect means of communication.

The only issue I have is that if he the poster asked for clarification
before he were to respond...was there any harm in his asking for
clarification?

Then for his asking he in essence gets bashed. I think that is rude and
inappropiate behavior.

EOD.

Dick

"Michael Pronay" > wrote in message
...
> "dick" > wrote:
>
> > If they had said Venezia vs. Venice...
>
> This was definitely not my point.
>
> If you are not willing to read my post carefully, I can't help.
>
> EOD from my side.
>
> M.

In article k.net>, "dick"
> writes:

>he the poster asked for clarification
>before he were to respond...was there any harm in his asking for
>clarification?
>
>Then for his asking he in essence gets bashed. I think that is rude and
>inappropiate behavior.
>

Dick,

I've been trying not to reenter this thread (I'm still smarting from
embarassment that one time I forgot to add ME to Portland!). But I can never
keep my mouth shut, so lets's review. After Dimitri's request for
"clarification", Mike answered:

"Mmm, granted I am not objective, Venezia being my city, but it seems
to me that if someone does not specify, Venice is in Italy, just as
Berlin is in Germany and London in England... ;-)))"

Note the emoticon. Mike then gave jcoulter a shop in Venice to try.. Sounds
pretty polite to me.

Dimitri (not a new poster, been around for a while, btw , and one whose posts I
have found useful in the past), responded with a statement that Mike wasn't
objective and a list of Google hits. Personally, if he (or anyone else here)
REALLY thought the OP meant Venice CA (though why anyone would limit themselves
to shops in Venice, since Venice is next to Santa Monica- greater LA to most of
us) or Venice FL they could just give suggestions.

Personally, though I live within US, I have never heard someone outside of
Florida or California refer to an unqualified "Venice" and not mean Venice,
Italy. Maybe we could have our first ever AFW public opinion poll. Everyone ask
5 acquaintances what they would think of a trip to Venice. See which Venice
people think they're talking about.

In any case I think that AFW can do without
Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

Salut/Hi Dale Williams,

Thanks!

le/on 05 Oct 2003 03:47:36 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

>In article k.net>, "dick"
> writes:

I might have expected Dick would come roaring in here.

>>he the poster asked for clarification
>>before he were to respond...was there any harm in his asking for
>>clarification?

>>Then for his asking he in essence gets bashed. I think that is rude and
>>inappropiate behavior.

I'm afraid that Dick's perspective on this is extremely Americo-centric and
unhelpful. It's typically inaccurate as well.

>Dimitri (not a new poster, been around for a while, btw ,

Certainly. Did Dick suggest otherwise (he's still in my kill file, so I
only ever read him via others' quotes)?

>Personally, though I live within US, I have never heard someone outside of
>Florida or California refer to an unqualified "Venice" and not mean Venice,
>Italy. Maybe we could have our first ever AFW public opinion poll. Everyone ask
>5 acquaintances what they would think of a trip to Venice. See which Venice
>people think they're talking about.

There's not much point in us Europeans taking part, as I don't think anyone
over here had even _heard_ of either of these two American towns (honestly
- I'm not being in any way snide or unpleasant) before this episode.

> In any case I think that AFW can do without without namecalling and derision. Even if we disagree
> let's try to be semi-mature about it. Thanks all.

One reason I killfiled Neidich, is because he seems unable to tolerate what
he sees as criticism of the US (though why this thread should be so
conisidered is beyond me) without descending to name calling. I don't
regard it as anti-British because Americans have never heard of Washington
Tyne & Wear (whew, finally spelled it right).

--
All the Best
Ian Hoare

Sometimes oi just sits and thinks
Sometimes oi just sits.

In article k.net>, Dwmidnt
writes:

>In any case I think that AFW can do without

Oops, premature ej..I mean premature posting.

I meant to say AFW can do without namecalling and derision. Even if we disagree
let's try to be semi-mature about it. Thanks all.
Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

OK...I agree. But again one final point.

M. Tommassi provided names for Venice Italy. I would have provided the
same one M. Tommassi did therefore I did not reply.

However when another poster asked for clarification I did not feel that was
wrong. What I want to know is why did others belabour that issue so much
that this tread is so long.

What is wrong with asking that question. I have heard you numerous time ask
a poster when he asks about a wine what country is he before responding.
Please advice.





"Dale Williams" > wrote in message
...
> In article k.net>,
Dwmidnt
> writes:
>
> >In any case I think that AFW can do without
>
> Oops, premature ej..I mean premature posting.
>
> I meant to say AFW can do without namecalling and derision. Even if we
disagree
> let's try to be semi-mature about it. Thanks all.
> Dale
>
> Dale Williams
> Drop "damnspam" to reply

Dale, for the record,

I had no issue with any of M. Tommassi's posts on his participation with the
Venice issues. In fact they were humorous as well. His assumption on
Venice was fine.

What I take issue with is that someone in the group asks for clarity...and
therefore the poster replied and provided same. Others then debated why
clarity was ever needed. That is what my issue is.

Ian is totally incorrect that any of my statements here were America-Centric
or Pro American.

It only shows how this group can be polarized over a simple question of
clarity be provided.

the end.
"Dale Williams" > wrote in message
...
> In article k.net>,
Dwmidnt
> writes:
>
> >In any case I think that AFW can do without
>
> Oops, premature ej..I mean premature posting.
>
> I meant to say AFW can do without namecalling and derision. Even if we
disagree
> let's try to be semi-mature about it. Thanks all.
> Dale
>
> Dale Williams
> Drop "damnspam" to reply

"dick" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
>
> I think many owe an apology to D. Gerasimatos. His posts are not
> argumentative but makes a valid point.
>

I do not see any reason for apology. Both his posts and
yours are contentious displays of obnoxious pedantry,
useful to no one save your own miscalibrated egos. Duh,
if its in America its gotta be the one you think of. Yeah!


pavane

No. My ego is not the one that has a problem. I believe that D.
Gerasimatos asked a legit question to clarify which it was.

The failure to do so has now been debated. I don't think that J. Coulter
ever planned to make his posting in any way controversial. But if someone
did not understand and asked for clarity...what is the problem?

As for your unwarranted assault all I can say is perhaps you don't
understand the point. Perhaps you don't understand many points but this was
a question of wine in Venice not "Pavanes Stupidity and Name Calling."


"pavane" > wrote in message
om...
>
> "dick" > wrote in message
> hlink.net...
> >
> > I think many owe an apology to D. Gerasimatos. His posts are not
> > argumentative but makes a valid point.
> >
>
> I do not see any reason for apology. Both his posts and
> yours are contentious displays of obnoxious pedantry,
> useful to no one save your own miscalibrated egos. Duh,
> if its in America its gotta be the one you think of. Yeah!
>
>
> pavane
>
>