I am told that when buying pinot noir, one should avoid Californians and
look for wines from either Oregon or Washington. Is this correct?

Schizoid Man wrote:
> I am told that when buying pinot noir, one should avoid Californians and
> look for wines from either Oregon or Washington. Is this correct?

No, it's not correct.

Washington PN preferred over California PN? Someone is confused.
Santa Maria, Santa Lucia Highlands, Russian River, Anderson Valley
are all making some outstanding PN in California.

Oregon has indeed earned a reputation for excellent PN.

But Washington?

Dana

In article >,
Schizoid Man > wrote:
>
>I am told that when buying pinot noir, one should avoid Californians and
>look for wines from either Oregon or Washington. Is this correct?


Who told you that? Oregon makes some good pinot noir, but the best US pinot
noir I have had lately has come from the Sonoma Coast of California.


Dimitri

In ,
Schizoid Man > typed:

> I am told that when buying pinot noir, one should avoid
Californians
> and look for wines from either Oregon or Washington. Is this
correct?


No.

--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup

"Schizoid Man" > wrote in message
...
> I am told that when buying pinot noir, one should avoid Californians and
> look for wines from either Oregon or Washington. Is this correct?
>
It's certainly true that Pinot Noir is a cool-climate grape. To match the
latitude of its traditional home, Burgundy, you'd be looking to the north of
Vancouver. While California might produce a good Pinot or two, it's not a
good climate for the grape.

Tiggrr

Kieran Dyke wrote:

> "Schizoid Man" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I am told that when buying pinot noir, one should avoid Californians and
> > look for wines from either Oregon or Washington. Is this correct?
> >
> It's certainly true that Pinot Noir is a cool-climate grape. To match the
> latitude of its traditional home, Burgundy, you'd be looking to the north of
> Vancouver. While California might produce a good Pinot or two, it's not a
> good climate for the grape.

Kieran,
Keep in mind that California's landscape is very diverse, and encompasses
many cool microclimates that have proved quite hospitable to Pinot Noir. As
Dana stated, the cooler coastal regions of Sonoma, Mendocino and Santa Barbara
counties are the sources of much of the quality California Pinot Noir. In the
end, latitude is a bit of red herring, as Washington's wine growing regions are
substantially hotter than any of the Californian regions I just listed. The
combination of cooling ocean breezes and coastal fog make a huge impact on
temperature.

Mark Lipton

Dana Myers wrote:

> Washington PN preferred over California PN? Someone is confused.
> Santa Maria, Santa Lucia Highlands, Russian River, Anderson Valley
> are all making some outstanding PN in California.

*poke poke* Carneros has been known to produce a decent bottle or two, also,
Dana... :P

Mark Lipton

"Mark Lipton" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Kieran Dyke wrote:
>
> > "Schizoid Man" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I am told that when buying pinot noir, one should avoid Californians
and
> > > look for wines from either Oregon or Washington. Is this correct?
> > >
> > It's certainly true that Pinot Noir is a cool-climate grape. To match
the
> > latitude of its traditional home, Burgundy, you'd be looking to the
north of
> > Vancouver. While California might produce a good Pinot or two, it's not
a
> > good climate for the grape.
>
> Kieran,
> Keep in mind that California's landscape is very diverse, and
encompasses
> many cool microclimates that have proved quite hospitable to Pinot Noir.
As
> Dana stated, the cooler coastal regions of Sonoma, Mendocino and Santa
Barbara
> counties are the sources of much of the quality California Pinot Noir. In
the
> end, latitude is a bit of red herring, as Washington's wine growing
regions are
> substantially hotter than any of the Californian regions I just listed.
The
> combination of cooling ocean breezes and coastal fog make a huge impact on
> temperature.
>
> Mark Lipton

A nice defense of California's Pinot Noir regions, Mark - and you don't even
_live_ here_! :^D

Tom S

Mark Lipton wrote:
>
> Dana Myers wrote:
>
>
>>Washington PN preferred over California PN? Someone is confused.
>>Santa Maria, Santa Lucia Highlands, Russian River, Anderson Valley
>>are all making some outstanding PN in California.
>
>
> *poke poke* Carneros has been known to produce a decent bottle or two, also,
> Dana... :P

I just don't think of Carneros when I think of outstanding
California PN. I really think Caneros was where the Napa-based
wineries went to grow PN because it's in their back yard before
the other areas were developed.

Dana

"Dana Myers" > wrote in message news:3fd5cbd6@wobble...
> I just don't think of Carneros when I think of outstanding
> California PN. I really think Caneros was where the Napa-based
> wineries went to grow PN because it's in their back yard before
> the other areas were developed.

Then all the $$$ the Napa wineries have poured into (over)hyping Carneros
has been wasted on us!

I think of Santa Barbara County, Russian River and Monterey area when Pinot
Noir comes to mind. I'll admit that there are some good Pinots from
Carneros, but not in proportion to the advertizing.

FWIW, Santa Rita Hills and Lucia Highlands are worth seeking out on a label.
These are the "young turks" - so to speak.

Tom S

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 06:38:30 GMT, "Tom S" > said:

[]
] A nice defense of California's Pinot Noir regions, Mark - and you don't even
] _live_ here_! :^D
]
] Tom S
]
]

Yes, but he's _from_ there, Tom. And absence definitly makes the heart grow
fonder!

-E
--
Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies

Emery Davis wrote:

> On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 06:38:30 GMT, "Tom S" > said:
>
> []
> ] A nice defense of California's Pinot Noir regions, Mark - and you don't even
> ] _live_ here_! :^D
> ]
> ] Tom S
> ]
> ]
>
> Yes, but he's _from_ there, Tom. And absence definitly makes the heart grow
> fonder!

Hmm...Mebbe, Emery. Although I can't bear even looking at the traffic on 29
without flashing back to Calistoga ca. '67, when the only traffic would be the
occasional aged pickup with horse trailer in tow, and apple orchards were the
crop of choice in the Russian River Valley.

Nostalgically yours,
Mark Lipton

Dana Myers wrote:

> I just don't think of Carneros when I think of outstanding
> California PN. I really think Caneros was where the Napa-based
> wineries went to grow PN because it's in their back yard before
> the other areas were developed.

Dana,
I think that Saintsbury's top flight bottlings, and those of Domaine Carneros
are usually excellent Pinot Noirs. They may not have the power of RRV or Santa
Lucia, but they have tremendous fruit and charm. De gustibus, however.

Mark Lipton

Tom S wrote:
> "Dana Myers" > wrote in message news:3fd5cbd6@wobble...
>
>>I just don't think of Carneros when I think of outstanding
>>California PN. I really think Caneros was where the Napa-based
>>wineries went to grow PN because it's in their back yard before
>>the other areas were developed.
>
>
> Then all the $$$ the Napa wineries have poured into (over)hyping Carneros
> has been wasted on us!

It's certainly been wasted on me.

> I think of Santa Barbara County, Russian River and Monterey area when Pinot
> Noir comes to mind. I'll admit that there are some good Pinots from
> Carneros, but not in proportion to the advertizing.

Of course, I'm not saying that all PNs from Carneros are bad.
Many of them are good and a few are excellent.

Dana

Mark Lipton wrote:

>
> Dana Myers wrote:
>
>
>>I just don't think of Carneros when I think of outstanding
>>California PN. I really think Caneros was where the Napa-based
>>wineries went to grow PN because it's in their back yard before
>>the other areas were developed.
>
>
> Dana,
> I think that Saintsbury's top flight bottlings, and those of Domaine Carneros
> are usually excellent Pinot Noirs. They may not have the power of RRV or Santa
> Lucia, but they have tremendous fruit and charm. De gustibus, however.

I hope no one misunderstands me and thinks that all Carneros PN
is bad. There's a lot of good PN coming from Carneros. It's
just not where the excitement is in California PN to me.

Dana

"Dana Myers" > wrote in message news:3fd68d7f$1@wobble...
> Of course, I'm not saying that all PNs from Carneros are bad.
> Many of them are good and a few are excellent.

Saintsbury and Acacia come to mind. So does BV's "Carneros Reserve".

Tom S

>> Many of them are good and a few are excellent.
>
>Saintsbury and Acacia come to mind. So does BV's "Carneros Reserve".
>

Mondavi Carneros PN is an example of a poor one. I think Carneros is too warm
to produce consistantly good PN.
Bi!!

"Schizoid Man" > wrote in message
...
> I am told that when buying pinot noir, one should avoid Californians and
> look for wines from either Oregon or Washington. Is this correct?

Specific recommendations: Siduri pinot from Sonoma County or Cristom from
Salem Oregon. As others have already pointed out, you got some incorrect
advice. Never had a good pinot from Washington.

Generally this is true. The Pinot Noir grape needs cooler weather than
its fellow (Cabernet Sauvignon, Zinfandel etc.) red wine grapesThe
northern wines are usually more complex than their Cal. cousins. Also
try Canadian Pinot Noirs as some of these are quite good also. A western
hemisphere PN is rarely as good as the Burgundian origional (Chamberton,
Echezeau etc.) whereas a Cal. Cabernet S. can even top the best of the
Bordeaux vintages (La Tour, Lafite Rothschild, Margeaux etc.) at times.
The best barometer is your own taste buds & those of your guests. Eat &
Drink Hearty, Carl

After Malvern Hill Pres. Lincoln visited with Gens. Mc Clellen & Sumner
as well as Col. Nugent (Commander of the Irish Brigade.)` A Lt. James.
M. Birmingham, Adjutant of the 88th N. Y. came from a swim in the James
R. & with his underwear drying on his body saw them talking. He ducked
behind some cover to eavesdrop in time to see & hear Pres. Lincoln
(overcome with emotion at the bravery & sacrifice of the Irish Brigade.)
as he lifted a corner of the 69th N. Y.'s flag, kissed it & said "God
bless this Irish flag" From Joseph Bilby's book
"Remember Fontenoy" on the Irish Brigade
Lancaster Civil War Round Table Website
http://community.webtv.net/GrayGhost...eCivilWarRound Carl
Speros webmaster.

E. Carl Speros wrote:
> Generally this is true. The Pinot Noir grape needs cooler weather than
> its fellow (Cabernet Sauvignon, Zinfandel etc.) red wine grapesThe
> northern wines are usually more complex than their Cal. cousins.

That's a pretty broad generalization. Which Washington PNs are you
thinking of?

I suppose it's true that PN grown in the wrong place in CA is
not exciting, which makes it more important to pay attention to
appellation.

> Also
> try Canadian Pinot Noirs as some of these are quite good also.

Which ones are you thinking of? I've had a few, they're quite
variable.

> > Also
> > try Canadian Pinot Noirs as some of these are quite good also.
>
> Which ones are you thinking of? I've had a few, they're quite
> variable.

Variable is too often an understatement.... I too would appreciate being
pointed in a better direction for Niagara PN product.
--
Regards
Chuck
So much wine; So little time!

To reply, delete NOSPAM from return address

In article >,
Kirk-O-Scottland > wrote:
>"Schizoid Man" > wrote in message
...
>> I am told that when buying pinot noir, one should avoid Californians and
>> look for wines from either Oregon or Washington. Is this correct?
>
>Specific recommendations: Siduri pinot from Sonoma County or Cristom from
>Salem Oregon. As others have already pointed out, you got some incorrect
>advice. Never had a good pinot from Washington.


Siduri is one of my favorites now. What is interesting about Siduri is
that they make wines from Oregon vineyards, too, so you can compare terroir.


Dimitri

The (somewhat new) wineries around Niagara are pretty darn good. I get a
newsletter from wine expert Natalie Mc Clean (I guess that's correct
spelling( She's from Ottawa (what a gorgeous city) & touts fine wines
from all over the world She's very knowledgeable indeed& if any of you
want I can forward a copy of this month's NL to She is also happy for
comments & will gladly get back to you on specific topics. Her's is the
#1 internet wine NL. Carl

After Malvern Hill Pres. Lincoln visited with Gens. Mc Clellen & Sumner
as well as Col. Nugent (Commander of the Irish Brigade.)` A Lt. James.
M. Birmingham, Adjutant of the 88th N. Y. came from a swim in the James
R. & with his underwear drying on his body saw them talking. He ducked
behind some cover to eavesdrop in time to see & hear Pres. Lincoln
(overcome with emotion at the bravery & sacrifice of the Irish Brigade.)
as he lifted a corner of the 69th N. Y.'s flag, kissed it & said "God
bless this Irish flag" From Joseph Bilby's book
"Remember Fontenoy" on the Irish Brigade
Lancaster Civil War Round Table Website
http://community.webtv.net/GrayGhost...eCivilWarRound Carl
Speros webmaster.

"D. Gerasimatos" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Kirk-O-Scottland > wrote:
> >"Schizoid Man" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> I am told that when buying pinot noir, one should avoid Californians
and
> >> look for wines from either Oregon or Washington. Is this correct?
> >
> >Specific recommendations: Siduri pinot from Sonoma County or Cristom from
> >Salem Oregon. As others have already pointed out, you got some incorrect
> >advice. Never had a good pinot from Washington.
>
>
> Siduri is one of my favorites now. What is interesting about Siduri is
> that they make wines from Oregon vineyards, too, so you can compare
terroir.
>

I have not tried Siduri's OR offering yet but will look forward to it. Is
it in the full bodied style like Cristom Marjorie's Vineyard, or lighter
like Patricia Green, etc.?

In article >,
Kirk-O-Scottland > wrote:
>
>I have not tried Siduri's OR offering yet but will look forward to it. Is
>it in the full bodied style like Cristom Marjorie's Vineyard, or lighter
>like Patricia Green, etc.?


It is lighter than the California bottlings, but I have not had either of
the two pinots you mention here. FWIW, the guy at my wine shop steered
me to the Siduri over the Patricia Green, saying that it better reflected
the terroir and was more French in style.


Dimitri

On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 18:12:02 +0000 (UTC),
(D. Gerasimatos) wrote:

>In article >,
>Kirk-O-Scottland > wrote:
>>
>>I have not tried Siduri's OR offering yet but will look forward to it. Is
>>it in the full bodied style like Cristom Marjorie's Vineyard, or lighter
>>like Patricia Green, etc.?
>
>
>It is lighter than the California bottlings, but I have not had either of
>the two pinots you mention here. FWIW, the guy at my wine shop steered
>me to the Siduri over the Patricia Green, saying that it better reflected
>the terroir and was more French in style.
>
>
>Dimitri

I had the opportunity to try two Siduri PN's last summer while
luxuriating at L'Auberge de Sedona AZ. One was from CA and one from OR
and, fool that I am, I neglected to write down the specific vineyards.
Both were excellent and very distinctively different in style. The CA
was quite dark and Burgundian, while the OR was a new world style,
style quite rich, but with brighter red-fruit flavors.

I would not hesitate, if faced with Siduri on a dealer's shelf to make
the purchase.

Fortunately for my budget, I never see Siduri on the shelf.

"D. Gerasimatos" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Kirk-O-Scottland > wrote:
> >
> >I have not tried Siduri's OR offering yet but will look forward to it.
Is
> >it in the full bodied style like Cristom Marjorie's Vineyard, or lighter
> >like Patricia Green, etc.?
>
>
> It is lighter than the California bottlings, but I have not had either of
> the two pinots you mention here. FWIW, the guy at my wine shop steered
> me to the Siduri over the Patricia Green, saying that it better reflected
> the terroir and was more French in style.
>
>

Thanks; I prefer the Siduri/Cristom style, although there is certainly a
place for the cherry Jolly Rancher types too.

"Chuck Reid" > wrote in message
...
>
> > > Also
> > > try Canadian Pinot Noirs as some of these are quite good also.
> >
> > Which ones are you thinking of? I've had a few, they're quite
> > variable.
>
> Variable is too often an understatement.... I too would appreciate being
> pointed in a better direction for Niagara PN product.

I live in Canada. I've tried a number (ten or so) of PN from Ontario and
they were pretty much uniformly... awful. If you've actually had good
PN from Ontario, please post the names. Thanks.

When I lived in California (until Oct 2001), I enjoyed very much the
local PN. There is quite a wide variety of styles and the ones I liked
most were perhaps the most un-Burgundian in style. I guess if I want
to drink Burgundy, I would buy a Burgundy. I expect a wine made from pinot
noir in California to be completely different. Some of my favorites were
from Etude and Lane Tanner. There were also two rather inexpensive PNs
that I like very much, one made by Morgan in Monterey and another by
Chalone (the Gavilan PN). Unfortunately, I've never seen these for sale
in Montreal where I now live.

E. Carl Speros wrote:
> The (somewhat new) wineries around Niagara are pretty darn good.

Which PN's have you had that are darn good?

Dana

(E. Carl Speros) wrote in news:6322-3FDAFA13-47
@storefull-3118.bay.webtv.net:

> The (somewhat new) wineries around Niagara are pretty darn good. I get a
> newsletter from wine expert Natalie Mc Clean (I guess that's correct
> spelling( She's from Ottawa (what a gorgeous city) & touts fine wines
> from all over the world She's very knowledgeable indeed& if any of you
> want I can forward a copy of this month's NL to She is also happy for
> comments & will gladly get back to you on specific topics. Her's is the
> #1 internet wine NL. Carl
>
>
Her newsletter only claims to be nmaed one of three best. The Niagra claims
would be as a result of the following from her newsletter which spams my
box regularly?

Konzelmann 2001 Riesling Select Late Harvest, Niagara $24/95 for the
half bottle: lovely citrus fruit with perfectly calibrated acidity in
this sweet wine. Available from the winery (905-935-2866) and in LCBO
stores. Sco 92/100.

Several wines from a very hot new Niagara winery, Angel's Gate. All
are available by the case from Rob Elvy in Ontario at 613-547-2669
and 613-530-0575 or . 2002 Vidal Blanc $11.95: can't
beat the price for this wonderful white sipper that has tropical tree
fruit (stock up for parties). Its red cousin is the 2002 Gamay
$13.95: a smooth, medium-bodied red that's simple yet enjoyable.

Gamay is not PN the others are whites. If you are going to spout at least
get a little real. My tastes aren't as refined as some hear and my idea of
tasting notes don't reflect all of the nuances, but I do drink what I claim
to like and at least take a sip of that which I do not.