A curious bottle.

A very champagne like nose, all grilled toast and green apple. I can't ever
recall a still wine with a nose so redolent of champagne.

Extremely complex in the mouth, still with the champagne-like quality of
green apple and toast, but also licorice, rose water, lavender honey,
melon, cake and thyme [!]. A nice bit of chewyness. I found it a bit
loose at the end, but the flavor of it certainly stuck around in the mouth.
(I was the only one who considered calling it "short").

I am uncertain as to what the encepagement would be. Don't recall
seeing the etiquette "blanc de blancs" in CdP before. I certainly would
have thought Clairette + ?. Viognier is not authorized in CdP Blanc, is it?

-E

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Emery Davis > wrote in
:

> A curious bottle.
>
> A very champagne like nose, all grilled toast and green apple. I
> can't ever recall a still wine with a nose so redolent of champagne.
>
> Extremely complex in the mouth, still with the champagne-like quality
> of green apple and toast, but also licorice, rose water, lavender
> honey, melon, cake and thyme [!]. A nice bit of chewyness. I found
> it a bit loose at the end, but the flavor of it certainly stuck around
> in the mouth. (I was the only one who considered calling it "short").
>
> I am uncertain as to what the encepagement would be. Don't recall
> seeing the etiquette "blanc de blancs" in CdP before. I certainly
> would have thought Clairette + ?. Viognier is not authorized in CdP
> Blanc, is it?
>
> -E
>

Look to the white grapes in the magic 13

About 5% of the grapes of the region are destined for white wines (the
most usual blends being of Grenache Blanc, Bourboulenc and Clairette),
and these have been of increasing interest and quality, some meant for
early consumption and others which are capable of aging for 8 - 10
years.

from http://www.stratsplace.com/rogov/chatnuef_du_pap.html

On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 00:29:56 +0100, Emery Davis >
wrote:

>A curious bottle.
>
>A very champagne like nose, all grilled toast and green apple. I can't ever
>recall a still wine with a nose so redolent of champagne.
>
>Extremely complex in the mouth, still with the champagne-like quality of
>green apple and toast, but also licorice, rose water, lavender honey,
>melon, cake and thyme [!]. A nice bit of chewyness. I found it a bit
>loose at the end, but the flavor of it certainly stuck around in the mouth.
>(I was the only one who considered calling it "short").
>
>I am uncertain as to what the encepagement would be. Don't recall
>seeing the etiquette "blanc de blancs" in CdP before. I certainly would
>have thought Clairette + ?. Viognier is not authorized in CdP Blanc, is it?

First, the grapes. Grenache blanc would be main variety, a quite
aromatic white grape that I am getting to like more and more, the new
generation of winemakers is getting splendid results out of this
grape, and C9dP in particular, my personal favourite is Domaine de la
Janasse. I can understand you thinking Viognier, your nose correctly
detected an aromatic grape variety, but I think there would be none in
C9dP.

About the "blanc de blancs" labelling, it gets me quite riled up,
because 99.99 % of still wines are blanc de blancs, and labelling it
so is just a marketing ploy to make the average consumer think he is
getting something different than other whites. When I see this, I
immediately become suspicious. Here in Bandol, Domaine Ott does the
same thing, and what is Ott's wine? Overpriced not very interesting
wine with goood marketing. I am surprised to find Font de Michelle
resorting to this, because they seem te be making good wine, and with
the attention enjoyed by C9dP recently, they don't need any more
marketing.

Mike

Salut/Hi Mike Tommasi,

le/on Thu, 08 Jan 2004 07:02:47 +0100, tu disais/you said:-

>On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 00:29:56 +0100, Emery Davis >
>wrote:

>>I am uncertain as to what the encepagement would be. Don't recall
>>seeing the etiquette "blanc de blancs" in CdP before. I certainly would
>>have thought Clairette + ?. Viognier is not authorized in CdP Blanc, is it?

>About the "blanc de blancs" labelling, it gets me quite riled up,
>because 99.99 % of still wines are blanc de blancs, and labelling it
>so is just a marketing ploy to make the average consumer think he is
>getting something different than other whites.

Well said. Leaving Champagne aside for a moment, the real question is/could
be how many white wines do you know that AREN'T made from white grapes? Very
few IMO. Some grapes _can't_ make white wine, because the juice itself is
coloured, others could but are very rarely used in that way. Without
researching, I'd say that about the only red grape(s) used regularly to make
white are the Pinots Noir & Meunier. Surprise surprise - in Champagne.

And that leads me to champagne. Yes in champagnes, the expression "Blanc de
blanc" means something. Given that usually champagne is made from one white
and two red grapes, it's reasonable, if you make it exclusively from
Chardonnay, to say so. WHY you should do so, is another matter, as is why
you should want to make the stuff anytway.

But given the fact that some prestigious houses made a top wine from
Chardonnay only, and labelled it "blanc de blancs", it was only a matter of
time before some bright spark there should seek to emulate them as use the
expression as if it automatically made a better wine. And it was only a
matter of time before someone somewhere else would do likewise. With the
possible exception of the grandes marques that started the name, I have the
deepest suspicion of any winery that feels they need to resort to what is at
best unnecessary and at worst positively misleading, labelling. But that all
comes about because of a mania for "having complete information." I don't
give a damn where a wine comes from, what grapes it is made from or what
vinification techniques, and in what year - not for itself. What I care is
that the wine called "D'ici là-bas" is delicious. As long as it's _always_
delicious and more or less consistent, (ie I'd prefer it not to change
dramatically in character - white one year, big beefy red another and then a
light delicate red the third) the rest is irrelevant, really. If the wine
maker is honest and knows her job, that's really all that matters. It might
be _interssting_ to know far more, but trusting the winemaker is more
important than worrying about the presence of 5% or 10% of Merlot one year
as opposed to 60% another.

(OK, I'm exaggerating slightly, partly in reaction to a stupid thread in
frbv).

--
All the Best
Ian Hoare

Sometimes oi just sits and thinks
Sometimes oi just sits.

On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 23:40:30 GMT, jcoulter > said:

] Emery Davis > wrote in
] :
]
][]
] > I am uncertain as to what the encepagement would be. Don't recall
] > seeing the etiquette "blanc de blancs" in CdP before. I certainly
] > would have thought Clairette + ?. Viognier is not authorized in CdP
] > Blanc, is it?
] >
] > -E
] >
]
] Look to the white grapes in the magic 13
]
] About 5% of the grapes of the region are destined for white wines (the
] most usual blends being of Grenache Blanc, Bourboulenc and Clairette),
] and these have been of increasing interest and quality, some meant for
] early consumption and others which are capable of aging for 8 - 10
] years.
]
] from http://www.stratsplace.com/rogov/chatnuef_du_pap.html

Hi Josh,

Ah the ever useful Strat's place. Interesting page. I shudder at both the
ratings and the US prices. Thanks though.

Generally the Gonnet Bro's make a white that gains a lot of complexity
with age. Although they are nice young, it seems kind of a waste to not
put them away. But yes, there are certainly some CdP whites that aren't
very good at aging.

I really should have guessed Grenache Blanc (had the 13 memorized many
years ago, long since forgotten ), but this really had such a large clairette
component it chased it from me.

-E
--
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You can reply to
by removing the well known companies

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 07:02:47 +0100, Mike Tommasi > said:

] About the "blanc de blancs" labelling, it gets me quite riled up,
] because 99.99 % of still wines are blanc de blancs, and labelling it
] so is just a marketing ploy to make the average consumer think he is
] getting something different than other whites. When I see this, I
] immediately become suspicious. Here in Bandol, Domaine Ott does the
] same thing, and what is Ott's wine? Overpriced not very interesting
] wine with goood marketing. I am surprised to find Font de Michelle
] resorting to this, because they seem te be making good wine, and with
] the attention enjoyed by C9dP recently, they don't need any more
] marketing.

Yeah, I know what you mean. In all fairness it was in tiny letters hidden
at the bottom of the label. I hadn't even noticed it when I opened the
carton (well, the carton dissolved when I tried to pick it up) and scanned
for what exactly it was, but someone else pointed it out.

I don't think the Gonnet's have the recognition they deserve in the states,
which is what drives the prices up. And of course when this was made I
assume it was before the big CdP price explosion. As I understand it
their principle export market has always been benelux.

Glad to hear you say good things about Font de M., even though they
are perhaps less "slow" than you would like...

-E
--
Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies

Emery Davis wrote:

> ] About 5% of the grapes of the region are destined for white wines (the
> ] most usual blends being of Grenache Blanc, Bourboulenc and Clairette),
> ] and these have been of increasing interest and quality, some meant for
> ] early consumption and others which are capable of aging for 8 - 10
> ] years.
>

>
> I really should have guessed Grenache Blanc (had the 13 memorized many
> years ago, long since forgotten ), but this really had such a large clairette
> component it chased it from me.

Emery,
Interesting notes. I have yet to try aging any white CdPs much, but will have
to give selected bottles the treatment. You are correct that Viognier isn't
allowed, but Roussanne is (no Marsanne, however) in addition to the grapes already
mentioned.

Mark Lipton

Ian Hoare > wrote:

> Without researching, I'd say that about the only red grape(s)
> used regularly to make white are the Pinots Noir & Meunier.

White Zin.

M.

Salut/Hi Michael Pronay,

le/on 9 Jan 2004 07:57:54 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

>Ian Hoare > wrote:
>
>> Without researching, I'd say that about the only red grape(s)
>> used regularly to make white are the Pinots Noir & Meunier.
>
>White Zin.

Quite right. And I can't even wriggle by saying that I'd said "white wine",
because I hadn't.


--
All the Best
Ian Hoare

Sometimes oi just sits and thinks
Sometimes oi just sits.