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Wine (alt.food.wine) Devoted to the discussion of wine and wine-related topics. A place to read and comment about wines, wine and food matching, storage systems, wine paraphernalia, etc. In general, any topic related to wine is valid fodder for the group. |
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A curious bottle.
A very champagne like nose, all grilled toast and green apple. I can't ever recall a still wine with a nose so redolent of champagne. Extremely complex in the mouth, still with the champagne-like quality of green apple and toast, but also licorice, rose water, lavender honey, melon, cake and thyme [!]. A nice bit of chewyness. I found it a bit loose at the end, but the flavor of it certainly stuck around in the mouth. (I was the only one who considered calling it "short"). I am uncertain as to what the encepagement would be. Don't recall seeing the etiquette "blanc de blancs" in CdP before. I certainly would have thought Clairette + ?. Viognier is not authorized in CdP Blanc, is it? -E -- Emery Davis You can reply to by removing the well known companies |
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Emery Davis > wrote in
: > A curious bottle. > > A very champagne like nose, all grilled toast and green apple. I > can't ever recall a still wine with a nose so redolent of champagne. > > Extremely complex in the mouth, still with the champagne-like quality > of green apple and toast, but also licorice, rose water, lavender > honey, melon, cake and thyme [!]. A nice bit of chewyness. I found > it a bit loose at the end, but the flavor of it certainly stuck around > in the mouth. (I was the only one who considered calling it "short"). > > I am uncertain as to what the encepagement would be. Don't recall > seeing the etiquette "blanc de blancs" in CdP before. I certainly > would have thought Clairette + ?. Viognier is not authorized in CdP > Blanc, is it? > > -E > Look to the white grapes in the magic 13 About 5% of the grapes of the region are destined for white wines (the most usual blends being of Grenache Blanc, Bourboulenc and Clairette), and these have been of increasing interest and quality, some meant for early consumption and others which are capable of aging for 8 - 10 years. from http://www.stratsplace.com/rogov/chatnuef_du_pap.html |
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On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 00:29:56 +0100, Emery Davis >
wrote: >A curious bottle. > >A very champagne like nose, all grilled toast and green apple. I can't ever >recall a still wine with a nose so redolent of champagne. > >Extremely complex in the mouth, still with the champagne-like quality of >green apple and toast, but also licorice, rose water, lavender honey, >melon, cake and thyme [!]. A nice bit of chewyness. I found it a bit >loose at the end, but the flavor of it certainly stuck around in the mouth. >(I was the only one who considered calling it "short"). > >I am uncertain as to what the encepagement would be. Don't recall >seeing the etiquette "blanc de blancs" in CdP before. I certainly would >have thought Clairette + ?. Viognier is not authorized in CdP Blanc, is it? First, the grapes. Grenache blanc would be main variety, a quite aromatic white grape that I am getting to like more and more, the new generation of winemakers is getting splendid results out of this grape, and C9dP in particular, my personal favourite is Domaine de la Janasse. I can understand you thinking Viognier, your nose correctly detected an aromatic grape variety, but I think there would be none in C9dP. About the "blanc de blancs" labelling, it gets me quite riled up, because 99.99 % of still wines are blanc de blancs, and labelling it so is just a marketing ploy to make the average consumer think he is getting something different than other whites. When I see this, I immediately become suspicious. Here in Bandol, Domaine Ott does the same thing, and what is Ott's wine? Overpriced not very interesting wine with goood marketing. I am surprised to find Font de Michelle resorting to this, because they seem te be making good wine, and with the attention enjoyed by C9dP recently, they don't need any more marketing. Mike |
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Salut/Hi Mike Tommasi,
le/on Thu, 08 Jan 2004 07:02:47 +0100, tu disais/you said:- >On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 00:29:56 +0100, Emery Davis > >wrote: >>I am uncertain as to what the encepagement would be. Don't recall >>seeing the etiquette "blanc de blancs" in CdP before. I certainly would >>have thought Clairette + ?. Viognier is not authorized in CdP Blanc, is it? >About the "blanc de blancs" labelling, it gets me quite riled up, >because 99.99 % of still wines are blanc de blancs, and labelling it >so is just a marketing ploy to make the average consumer think he is >getting something different than other whites. Well said. Leaving Champagne aside for a moment, the real question is/could be how many white wines do you know that AREN'T made from white grapes? Very few IMO. Some grapes _can't_ make white wine, because the juice itself is coloured, others could but are very rarely used in that way. Without researching, I'd say that about the only red grape(s) used regularly to make white are the Pinots Noir & Meunier. Surprise surprise - in Champagne. And that leads me to champagne. Yes in champagnes, the expression "Blanc de blanc" means something. Given that usually champagne is made from one white and two red grapes, it's reasonable, if you make it exclusively from Chardonnay, to say so. WHY you should do so, is another matter, as is why you should want to make the stuff anytway. But given the fact that some prestigious houses made a top wine from Chardonnay only, and labelled it "blanc de blancs", it was only a matter of time before some bright spark there should seek to emulate them as use the expression as if it automatically made a better wine. And it was only a matter of time before someone somewhere else would do likewise. With the possible exception of the grandes marques that started the name, I have the deepest suspicion of any winery that feels they need to resort to what is at best unnecessary and at worst positively misleading, labelling. But that all comes about because of a mania for "having complete information." I don't give a damn where a wine comes from, what grapes it is made from or what vinification techniques, and in what year - not for itself. What I care is that the wine called "D'ici là-bas" is delicious. As long as it's _always_ delicious and more or less consistent, (ie I'd prefer it not to change dramatically in character - white one year, big beefy red another and then a light delicate red the third) the rest is irrelevant, really. If the wine maker is honest and knows her job, that's really all that matters. It might be _interssting_ to know far more, but trusting the winemaker is more important than worrying about the presence of 5% or 10% of Merlot one year as opposed to 60% another. (OK, I'm exaggerating slightly, partly in reaction to a stupid thread in frbv). -- All the Best Ian Hoare Sometimes oi just sits and thinks Sometimes oi just sits. |
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On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 23:40:30 GMT, jcoulter > said:
] Emery Davis > wrote in ] : ] ][] ] > I am uncertain as to what the encepagement would be. Don't recall ] > seeing the etiquette "blanc de blancs" in CdP before. I certainly ] > would have thought Clairette + ?. Viognier is not authorized in CdP ] > Blanc, is it? ] > ] > -E ] > ] ] Look to the white grapes in the magic 13 ] ] About 5% of the grapes of the region are destined for white wines (the ] most usual blends being of Grenache Blanc, Bourboulenc and Clairette), ] and these have been of increasing interest and quality, some meant for ] early consumption and others which are capable of aging for 8 - 10 ] years. ] ] from http://www.stratsplace.com/rogov/chatnuef_du_pap.html Hi Josh, Ah the ever useful Strat's place. Interesting page. I shudder at both the ratings and the US prices. Thanks though. Generally the Gonnet Bro's make a white that gains a lot of complexity with age. Although they are nice young, it seems kind of a waste to not put them away. But yes, there are certainly some CdP whites that aren't very good at aging. I really should have guessed Grenache Blanc (had the 13 memorized many years ago, long since forgotten ![]() component it chased it from me. -E -- Emery Davis You can reply to by removing the well known companies |
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On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 07:02:47 +0100, Mike Tommasi > said:
] About the "blanc de blancs" labelling, it gets me quite riled up, ] because 99.99 % of still wines are blanc de blancs, and labelling it ] so is just a marketing ploy to make the average consumer think he is ] getting something different than other whites. When I see this, I ] immediately become suspicious. Here in Bandol, Domaine Ott does the ] same thing, and what is Ott's wine? Overpriced not very interesting ] wine with goood marketing. I am surprised to find Font de Michelle ] resorting to this, because they seem te be making good wine, and with ] the attention enjoyed by C9dP recently, they don't need any more ] marketing. Yeah, I know what you mean. In all fairness it was in tiny letters hidden at the bottom of the label. I hadn't even noticed it when I opened the carton (well, the carton dissolved when I tried to pick it up) and scanned for what exactly it was, but someone else pointed it out. I don't think the Gonnet's have the recognition they deserve in the states, which is what drives the prices up. And of course when this was made I assume it was before the big CdP price explosion. As I understand it their principle export market has always been benelux. Glad to hear you say good things about Font de M., even though they are perhaps less "slow" than you would like... ![]() -E -- Emery Davis You can reply to by removing the well known companies |
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![]() Emery Davis wrote: > ] About 5% of the grapes of the region are destined for white wines (the > ] most usual blends being of Grenache Blanc, Bourboulenc and Clairette), > ] and these have been of increasing interest and quality, some meant for > ] early consumption and others which are capable of aging for 8 - 10 > ] years. > > > I really should have guessed Grenache Blanc (had the 13 memorized many > years ago, long since forgotten ![]() > component it chased it from me. Emery, Interesting notes. I have yet to try aging any white CdPs much, but will have to give selected bottles the treatment. You are correct that Viognier isn't allowed, but Roussanne is (no Marsanne, however) in addition to the grapes already mentioned. Mark Lipton |
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Ian Hoare > wrote:
> Without researching, I'd say that about the only red grape(s) > used regularly to make white are the Pinots Noir & Meunier. White Zin. M. |
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Salut/Hi Michael Pronay,
le/on 9 Jan 2004 07:57:54 GMT, tu disais/you said:- >Ian Hoare > wrote: > >> Without researching, I'd say that about the only red grape(s) >> used regularly to make white are the Pinots Noir & Meunier. > >White Zin. Quite right. And I can't even wriggle by saying that I'd said "white wine", because I hadn't. -- All the Best Ian Hoare Sometimes oi just sits and thinks Sometimes oi just sits. |
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