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Wine (alt.food.wine) Devoted to the discussion of wine and wine-related topics. A place to read and comment about wines, wine and food matching, storage systems, wine paraphernalia, etc. In general, any topic related to wine is valid fodder for the group. |
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As promised earlier, I did manage to make an excursion (along with 7
assorted family members) to the wine region just outside of Portland, OR over the Christmas holidays. Before getting there, however, my winemaker cousin Matt and I opened a number of interesting wines at Christmas dinner: 2000 Turley Hayne Vyd Zinfandel: A very forward nose of oak and varietal berry fruit was followed by more of the same on the palate, accompanied by a rich mouthfeel and soft tannins. It didn't really accompany any of the food at the meal, but was still very nice to drink on its own. 1998 Penfolds St. Henri Shiraz: Still quite backwards when opened, we decanted it and left it to open over 30 minutes. The nose showed herbal qualities on top of a deep sense of dark fruit. On the palate, it had a balanced entry and was still fairly tightly knit, but finished with plummy fruit and some astringency. In contrast to the Turley, this wine went very well with the lamb. It clearly has several years left ahead of it. 1994 Le Vieux Donjon Chateauneuf-du-Pape: A nose of cherry and smoked meats. In the mouth it was rich, balanced with a core of cherryish fruit and a smoky, meaty finish. Really lovely. 2002 Owen Roe "Ex Umbris" Syrah: Jammy blueberries and smoke in the nose. On the palate, it had an acidic entry, with flavors of smoke and vanilla with meaty overtones and an acidic finish. [this wine was a gift of an assistant winemaker at Owen Roe to one of my cousin's husbands. The story is that they hand harvested these Syrah grapes from a vineyard that had survived wildfires, hence the smokiness of the grapes...] 1999 Harlan Estate Cabernet Sauvignon: A nose of mint, pine and oak. In the mouth, pencil lead and tannin, followed by mintiness. It had a thick mouthfeel and had a modestly tannic finish. A very good wine, but worth all the hype?? Our excursion to the wineries of Yamhill County began with lunch at the Dundee Bistro operated by Ponzi. While waiting for the gang to arrive, we tried a flight of Ponzi's wines at the wine bar. 2002 Pinot Gris: A nose of stones, peaches and pineapple. The first impression in the mouth was of alcohol, with a tart entry and flavors of minerals. Overall, a bit thin. 2002 Arnëis: A floral nose with mineral notes. On the palate, it was crisp with a metallic taint to the flavors and a tart finish. Not terribly interesting. 2002 Pinot Blanc: A nose of minerals and a hint of pineapple. Flavors of tart pineapple lead to a thin finish. Again, not very interesting. 2000 Chardonnay: In the nose, toasty oak and a hint of vanilla. Thin flavors were dominated by vanilla. Blah! 1999 Chardonnay Reserve: What is this? A New World Chardonnay less oaky in its reserve bottling? Go figger! Stone fruit, pineapple and stones in the nose; a slightly creamy entry, pineapple in the mid-palate and a clean, slightly buttery finish. Much more interesting. 2001 Pinot Noir: Sappy and green in the nose with a sense of tart fruit; slightly tannic entry led to a hollow mid-palate. Young vines, perhaps? 2000 Pinot Noir Reserve: The real deal. Rich varietal fruit in the nose; a slightly tannic entry but here there is cherryish fruit to follow before a somewhat short finish. Much better, though not a blockbuster. Lunch, however, was a very fine affair. My duck confit salad was well done (and the homemade duck confit was impressive) as were the other dishes. After lunch, we headed to an appointment at Chehalem, where the very charming and informative director of direct sales (subbing for the normal taster on Dec. 26) opened for us: 2002 Pinot Blanc: A great nose of tropical fruits and melon; on the palate, a sense of creamy pineapple and minerals. Without doubt, the best New World Pinot Blanc I've ever tasted. 2002 Pinot Gris Reserve: In the nose, pineapple. A creamy mouthfeel with somewhat muted flavors. Less interesting than the Pinot Blanc. 2002 Dry Riesling: Pineapple and tropical fruit in the nose. Explosive mouthful of tropical fruit, quite dry with a crisp finish. Several of the white wine drinkers felt that this was the wine of the day. 2001 Pinot Noir "Three Vineyards": A light nose of strawberryish fruit and rose petals. Reasonably rich in the mouth, slightly tannic at entry and a bit thin in the finish. Very reasonable for an entry level Pinot Noir. 2001 Pinot Noir "Stoller Vineyard": A nose of smoke with deep cherry and butter; on the palate, powerful and slightly tannic with a deep sense of light, cherryish fruit. More expensive than the earlier PN, but with the stuffing to justify the price. Next stop was Lange which, despite an earlier visit in 2001, required assistance to locate. Ironically, this out of the way tasting room, accessible only by gravel road, was PACKED with people when we arrived! 2002 Pinot Gris Reserve: In the nose, pineapple, alcohol and flinty notes; somwhat creamy mouthfeel, with flavors of pineapple and grapefruit and plenty of acidity. Not as good as the 2000 was, but still very good example. 2002 Pinot Gris: A nose of grapefruit; on the palate, citrusy and crisp with a clean finish. Much simpler than its reserve counterpart. 2002 Chardonnay Reserve: A closed-in nose that showed mostly alcohol; on the palate, flavors of toast and citrus with an acid finish. Much less interesting than the Pinot Gris (as we found on our previous visit). 2001 Pinot Noir Willamette Valley There was some heat in the nose (too warm?), but also cherry fruit; in the mouth, lightly fruity and a bit thin. Not too interesting. 2001 Pinot Noir Reserve: A nose of alcohol and smoke; a round entry was followed by flavors of cherry and smoke and a surprisingly tannic finish. Much better than the cheaper PN. 2000 Pinot Noir Three Hills Cuveé: A tight nose, showing mostly alcohol. Overly acidic entry, but creamy mid-palate with a limited sense of fruit and a short finish. Maybe it just needs more time, but at this moment seemed much less promising than the '01 Reserve. We finished our day at Torii Mor, where in contrast to Lange we were the only visitors. One good reason to make this your final visit is that it houses a beautiful and comfortable sitting room, ideal for those whose interest in the winetasting experience may be flagging (or for any designated drivers). 2002 Pinot Gris: A light nose of green apples; in the mouth, creamy pineapple. A good but not profound example. 2002 Pinot Gris Reserve: A nose of pears and stones; a rich mouthfeel with flavors of white peaches and pears. Very nice. 2002 Pinot Noir "La Fleur du Côte Rouge": A nose of smoke, earth and dark fruit; Slightly thin on entry, it fleshed out with dark fruit and acidity. Very reasonable Pinot Noir at a very attractive price. 2001 Pinot Noir Oregon: Sulfur in the nose, smoke underneath; Medium-full in body, with decent fruit and a lightly tannic finish. 2001 Pinot Noir Reserve "Deux Verres": A nose of butter and cherryish fruit; fairly rich entry with soft fruit on the palate, and a slightly tannic finish. 2001 Pinot Noir Olson Vineyard: More sulfur in the nose (Jean couldn't get past it) and smoke beneath it; on the palate, rich mouthfeel and red fruit, flower petals and an acidic finish. Hard to get past the sulfur to really assess this wine. 2001 Pinot Noir Seven Springs Vineyard: A nose of bright, cherryish fruit; on the palate, and initial sense of fruit, medium full body, smoky complexity and a slightly tannic finish. My favorite Pinot Noir of the day. 2001 Pinot Noir Temperance Hill Vineyard: In the nose, sulfur and tart fruit; in the mouth, rich and soft, but finishes dry and acidic. Again, the sulfur made this a hard wine to accurately evaluate. Overall, we were very please with every one of our stops. The Pinot Gris were not quite as impressive as they had been in 2001, but the Chehalem Pinot Blanc was an eye-opener, and the quality of the Pinot Noirs was undeniable, though most of our favorites cost $35-60. The Torii Mor 2002 "La Fleur du Côtes Rouge" was the QPR winner for the Pinot Noirs, though the Chehalem Three Hills was close behind it. Thanks to all who offered their advice. Perhaps when we return in 2005, we can get to Willakenzie, Panther Creek, Cristom and/or Witness Tree. Mark Lipton |
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>2000 Chardonnay:
>In the nose, toasty oak and a hint of vanilla. Thin flavors were >dominated by vanilla. Blah! > >1999 Chardonnay Reserve: >What is this? A New World Chardonnay less oaky in its reserve >bottling? Go figger! Stone >fruit, pineapple and stones in the nose; a >slightly creamy entry, pineapple in the mid-palate and a clean, slightly >buttery finish. Much more interesting. Is it less oaky, or does the reserve have more stuffing to balance out the oak? Just curious. Thanks for the notes. I'll have to make a trip out there. Tom Schellberg |
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Hello Mark;
Lovely taste notes. Keep `em coming. In a few of your descriptions, you talk about a good quality for price (not that exact wording), however, you don´t say how much the wine in question costs, except at the end, you mention an interval of USD 35 to 60 (being in my never very humble opinion between the level of 'Ouch' and 'that REALLY hurts'). I´d be curious to learn what you consider a fair price for the products in question. For reasons unbeknownst to me, US wines tend to be very expensive in Sweden - entry level wines selling for SEK 130 (c USD 16) etc - so I´d like to know what they cost at the place of origin! Cheers Nils Gustaf -- Respond to nils dot lindgren at drchips dot se |
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![]() Nils Gustaf Lindgren wrote: > Hello Mark; Hello, Nils, and Happy New Year to yourself and Xina from Jean and myself. > In a few of your descriptions, you talk about a good quality for price (not > that exact wording), however, you don´t say how much the wine in question > costs, except at the end, you mention an interval of USD 35 to 60 (being in > my never very humble opinion between the level of 'Ouch' and 'that REALLY > hurts'). Sorry about that. I didn't note down the prices of the various offerings (in truth, I was struggling just to keep notes, period: too many distractions) > > I´d be curious to learn what you consider a fair price for the products in > question. For reasons unbeknownst to me, US wines tend to be very expensive > in Sweden - entry level wines selling for SEK 130 (c USD 16) etc - so I´d > like to know what they cost at the place of origin! I'd say that I consider a price of USD10-15 reasonable for a regular cuveé white, 15-20 for a "reserve" bottling that merits the name, 15-20 reasonable for a red intended for near term drinking, 15-25 for a "vin de garde" and 25-35 for a luxury bottling. This is not to say that I won't pay more, but I would have to be convinced of the quality before paying any more (as I do for some of my favorite wines from France). These cutoffs are of course entirely subjective and YMMV. My definition of "reasonable" price for a wine has also increased as my income has. However, a useful standard of comparison is wines from other countries: we can get most good NZ SBs for USD15-20 (barring Cloudy Bay) and regular cuveé bottlings from Alsace and the Loire for the same price. Austrian GVs run a bit more money, but can still be had for around USD20. We can also get good quality CdRs, Cru Beaujolais and wines from the Midi for USD12-18, and Cru Bourgeois Bordeaux for a little more (USD15-25). Burgundy is always the bank breaker, but even so good "Bourgogne" bottlings (e.g., Claude Dugat) will cost USD30-40, which competes very favorably with the Reserve Pinot Noirs we were tasting in Oregon. HTH Mark Lipton |
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![]() Xyzsch wrote: > > >1999 Chardonnay Reserve: > >What is this? A New World Chardonnay less oaky in its reserve > >bottling? Go figger! Stone > >fruit, pineapple and stones in the nose; a > >slightly creamy entry, pineapple in the mid-palate and a clean, slightly > >buttery finish. Much more interesting. > > Is it less oaky, or does the reserve have more stuffing to balance out the oak? > Just curious. AFAIC, it was less oaky in the absolute sense. There was no toastiness at all in the nose, and very little sense of oak on the palate. There was a roundedness that I'd attribute to oak aging, but if so it seems like they used neutral oak barrels. > > > Thanks for the notes. I'll have to make a trip out there. And well you should, Tom. If I'd had more time, I'd spend 2-3 days visiting many more places. If I were alone, I'd go to Archery Summit and Dom. Drouhin. However, you might want to time your visit to get to taste those highly anticipated 2002 Pinot Noirs... Mark Lipton |
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