Any one can spend $50 and get an exceptional wine - usually - but the
thrill is finding an equivalent bottle at a lesser price.

How fun!

Wine values compared to price, in ascending order:

If I have $20 on Friday afternoon to buy a bottle of wine in Phoenix,
Arizona for dinner that night, it will not be Italian (could be crappy),
it will not be French (too few available here), unlikely to be
Californian (might be good, might not be),
but will probably be Australian. For $20 the wine might even be great!

I am now enjoying a lip-smacking Chilean Merlot "120" by Santa Rita,
2001 vintage,
which I purchased from my local Safeway in their close-out bin for
$2.99!

I drink good wines for cheap, and will guide others to do so, if asked.

Any one else with advice?

Well,

Then I could add also Chapel Hill wines from Hungary, maybe Pinot Noir from
the Winemaker Selection series.
This one might go quite well with food, or on the othet hand, just for
drinking...

--
Taavi Sepp
+3725117323



"D T" > wrote in message
...
> Any one can spend $50 and get an exceptional wine - usually - but the
> thrill is finding an equivalent bottle at a lesser price.
>
> How fun!
>
> Wine values compared to price, in ascending order:
>
> If I have $20 on Friday afternoon to buy a bottle of wine in Phoenix,
> Arizona for dinner that night, it will not be Italian (could be crappy),
> it will not be French (too few available here), unlikely to be
> Californian (might be good, might not be),
> but will probably be Australian. For $20 the wine might even be great!
>
> I am now enjoying a lip-smacking Chilean Merlot "120" by Santa Rita,
> 2001 vintage,
> which I purchased from my local Safeway in their close-out bin for
> $2.99!
>
> I drink good wines for cheap, and will guide others to do so, if asked.
>
> Any one else with advice?
>

In article >,
(D T) writes:

>Any one can spend $50 and get an exceptional wine - usually

Hmm, I've had quite a few unexceptional $50 ones!

- but the
>thrill is finding an equivalent bottle at a lesser price.
>
Agreed.


>If I have $20 on Friday afternoon to buy a bottle of wine in Phoenix,
>Arizona for dinner that night, it will not be Italian (could be crappy),
>it will not be French (too few available here), unlikely to be
>Californian (might be good, might not be),
>but will probably be Australian. For $20 the wine might even be great!
>

Well, that goes into stylistic choices. I buy a load of $20 & under wines, and
few are Aussie. The fat lush fruit-forward reds we get here are not my personal
favorite style. I like some (Kaesler Stonehorse GSM), but not something I drink
regularly.

I am a believer in the theory that 85% of wine produced ANYWHERE is crap - and
2/3s of remainder is not to my tastes. The fun (to me) is finding the values in
the remaining 5% of wines. And those could be from almost any country:
Italy- Felsina CC, Caparzo Rosso
France- Lafarge Bourgogne, Coufran, Lanessan, Clair St Aubin, Baumard
Savenierres, Frick Gew.
CA- Ridge 3 Valleys, Mason or St Supery SBs

best,
Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

On 15 Feb 2004 13:54:35 GMT, amnspam (Dale Williams)
wrote:

>
>I am a believer in the theory that 85% of wine produced ANYWHERE is crap - and
>2/3s of remainder is not to my tastes. The fun (to me) is finding the values in
>the remaining 5% of wines. And those could be from almost any country:
>Italy- Felsina CC, Caparzo Rosso
>France- Lafarge Bourgogne, Coufran, Lanessan, Clair St Aubin, Baumard
>Savenierres, Frick Gew.
>CA- Ridge 3 Valleys, Mason or St Supery SBs

I think Dale is off by about 5%. Roughly 90% of the wine I taste is
junk.

Curious to know what your estimate is.


--
=================================================
Do you like wine? Do you live in South Florida?
Visit the MIAMI WINE TASTERS group at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/miamiWINE
=================================================

On 15-Feb-2004, (D T) wrote:

>> Any one can spend $50 and get an exceptional wine
And there are quite a few at $50 (or more) that are not exceptional

>> - usually - but the
>> thrill is finding an equivalent bottle at a lesser price.
>>
>> How fun!

>>
>> Wine values compared to price, in ascending order:
>>
>> If I have $20 on Friday afternoon to buy a bottle of wine in Phoenix,
>> Arizona for dinner that night, it will not be Italian (could be crappy),
>> it will not be French (too few available here), unlikely to be
>> Californian (might be good, might not be),
>> but will probably be Australian.
Hmmm.... we are possibly relocating to Phoenix, so it is interesting to hear
that the wine selection may not be what we are accustomed to, even in
Alabama

>>For $20 the wine might even be great!
>>
>> I am now enjoying a lip-smacking Chilean Merlot "120" by Santa Rita,
>> 2001 vintage,
>> which I purchased from my local Safeway in their close-out bin for
>> $2.99!
>>
>> I drink good wines for cheap, and will guide others to do so, if asked.
>>
>> Any one else with advice?
If you can find it, look for Las Rocas de San Alejandro 2002 Granacha from
the Calatayud region of Spain. At $8.99 retail in Alabama it is a still.
Robert Parker gave it 91 points (Issue 147, 6/30/03, Page 35) and proclaims
that "this may be the greatest discovery of my 25-year career" and "may be
the greatest wine value I have ever tasted." All I can say is that he is
absolutely right! I have sold 30 cases in 2 days, and if I can get another
100 could sell those to.

On 15-Feb-2004, Leo Bueno > wrote:

> On 15 Feb 2004 13:54:35 GMT, amnspam (Dale Williams)
> wrote:
>
> >
> >I am a believer in the theory that 85% of wine produced ANYWHERE is crap
> >- and
> >2/3s of remainder is not to my tastes. The fun (to me) is finding the
> >values in
> >the remaining 5% of wines. And those could be from almost any country:
> >Italy- Felsina CC, Caparzo Rosso
> >France- Lafarge Bourgogne, Coufran, Lanessan, Clair St Aubin, Baumard
> >Savenierres, Frick Gew.
> >CA- Ridge 3 Valleys, Mason or St Supery SBs
>
> I think Dale is off by about 5%. Roughly 90% of the wine I taste is
> junk.
>
> Curious to know what your estimate is.

I guess it depends on what you define as "junk". Everyones tastes are
different, and there are enough styles out there to make anyone think that a
large percentage is "junk" when in fact it just isn't a style that they
personally like.

Being in the retail trade, I have learned over the years to think about each
wine for what it is and not what you think it should be. True, there are
some really awful wines out there but I don't think that 85% or 90% is even
close to being accurate. My opinion is that less than 10% of all wines made
are "junk", but probably 70-80% of the wines that I taste are not ones that
I particularly "like".

On 2/15/04 10:31 AM, in article ,
"Leo Bueno" > wrote:

>
> On 15 Feb 2004 13:54:35 GMT, amnspam (Dale Williams)
> wrote:
>
>>
>> I am a believer in the theory that 85% of wine produced ANYWHERE is crap -
>> and
>> 2/3s of remainder is not to my tastes. The fun (to me) is finding the values
>> in
>> the remaining 5% of wines. And those could be from almost any country:
>> Italy- Felsina CC, Caparzo Rosso
>> France- Lafarge Bourgogne, Coufran, Lanessan, Clair St Aubin, Baumard
>> Savenierres, Frick Gew.
>> CA- Ridge 3 Valleys, Mason or St Supery SBs
>
> I think Dale is off by about 5%. Roughly 90% of the wine I taste is
> junk.

Wow - what stuff are you tasting?

I think most wine I have tried has been at least palatable - some has been
rather uninspiring but drinkable enough to finish the serving or bottle -
and some is basically undrinkable.

I think the breakdowns for me a

Truly Amazing 1% (If I could afford it, I would have a case of it, I would
travel 100 miles to get if it wasn't locally available)
Good-Excellent 19% (like it a lot, would buy again, would even go to some
effort to get, make phone calls, etc.)
Decent-Palatable 50% (good wine, might buy if the price was right and it was
right with food, but won't go to any trouble to get)
Uninspiring 20% (near-crap, wouldn't buy knowingly, but won't be distraught)
Undrinkable 10% (Guess this would qualify as 'crap' to me)

In article >, "CabFan"
> writes:

> guess it depends on what you define as "junk".

Very true. What I meant when throwing out my 85% figure is wines that hold
basically zero interest to me. Certainly the percentage of technically flawed
wines is far lower than that. But my definition of junk encompasses the likes
of producers like Vendange, most bulk wines ala Gallo's low-end wines, DuBoueuf
VdPs, etc. I'm not saying they are undrinkable as alcoholic beverages made from
grapes, just that they are totally uninteresting to me.
Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

CabFan wrote:

>
> I guess it depends on what you define as "junk". Everyones tastes are
> different, and there are enough styles out there to make anyone think that a
> large percentage is "junk" when in fact it just isn't a style that they
> personally like.

True.

>
>
> Being in the retail trade, I have learned over the years to think about each
> wine for what it is and not what you think it should be. True, there are
> some really awful wines out there but I don't think that 85% or 90% is even
> close to being accurate. My opinion is that less than 10% of all wines made
> are "junk", but probably 70-80% of the wines that I taste are not ones that
> I particularly "like".

I think it's important here to distinguish between the percentage of what one
tries vs. the percentage of wine produced. In my case, I rarely dip into the
ocean of cheap wine that my local retailers carry. However, when I visit the
wine aisles of my local grocery store, I see that most of the shelf space is
taken up by "Vendange," "Turning Leaf," "Almaden" and "Paul Masson" wines; the
shelves devoted to Europe and Oz offer similarly inspiring choices. Though I
don't have extensive experience drinking these wines, I've had enough to say
that the majority, if not the entirety, are thin and unbalanced with little
fruit and no varietal character. To me, these wines are not merely dull, but
rather unpleasant to drink. That is junk in my book, and we have not even
touched the likes of Arbor Mist, Night Train or Sparkling Pink Catawba. So,
what percentage of US production is devoted to such wines? I don't know, but
it's a rather high number, I suspect. From my travels in France, Germany and
Italy, I know that they too produce an ocean of cheap plonk, though whether
it's in the same proportion to the US I have no way of knowing. Perhaps the
only country I've visited where this was not the case was New Zealand, where
the biggest producer of wine (Montana) offers comptently made, if usually
uninspiring, wines across the board. And the second largest operation (Villa
Maria) makes damn good wine at the top level, and very good wine at the lowest
level. So, perhaps, rather than debating what number is accurate, we should
instead see whether we can agree that the majority of wine is uninteresting,
with only a small percentage being wines of character and even less being truly
memorable.

Just my $0.02,
Mark Lipton

Mark Lipton wrote:

> That is junk in my book, and we
> have not even touched the likes of [], Night
> Train

Night Train? That can not be bad, Mark:
in 1986 Appetite for Destruction, the
Guns n' Roses band dedicated a song to it!


Vilco

See http://www.calatayud.org/noticias/FE...4/160204_2.htm


(D T) wrote in message >...
> Any one can spend $50 and get an exceptional wine - usually - but the
> thrill is finding an equivalent bottle at a lesser price.
>
> How fun!
>
> Wine values compared to price, in ascending order:
>
> If I have $20 on Friday afternoon to buy a bottle of wine in Phoenix,
> Arizona for dinner that night, it will not be Italian (could be crappy),
> it will not be French (too few available here), unlikely to be
> Californian (might be good, might not be),
> but will probably be Australian. For $20 the wine might even be great!
>
> I am now enjoying a lip-smacking Chilean Merlot "120" by Santa Rita,
> 2001 vintage,
> which I purchased from my local Safeway in their close-out bin for
> $2.99!
>
> I drink good wines for cheap, and will guide others to do so, if asked.
>
> Any one else with advice?