Hi,
I'm hoping to get some info on a vintage bottle that a recently deceased
relative has been keeping. it's got the following written on the label:

grants of St.James ltd
Grand cru classe
1961
chateau haut-batailley pauillac
appellation pauillac controlee
mis en boutaille au chateau
Francis Borie propretaire

Sorry to be so vague, but I have no idea about these things, I just
figure that as it's been kept this long there must be some reason to have
done so....

Thanks in advance,
L.

A book I have here lists Pauillac as one of the 5 Appelations designated
in 1855 that make up the most illustrious areas of Bordeaux France.
Haut-Batailley is listed as a Fifth Growth/5'eme cru. That's about all I
can gather this quickly before work...

Scott

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 13:42:27 -0000, Lenmeister
> wrote:

> Hi,
> I'm hoping to get some info on a vintage bottle that a recently
> deceased
> relative has been keeping. it's got the following written on the label:
>
> grants of St.James ltd
> Grand cru classe
> 1961
> chateau haut-batailley pauillac
> appellation pauillac controlee
> mis en boutaille au chateau
> Francis Borie propretaire
>
> Sorry to be so vague, but I have no idea about these things, I just
> figure that as it's been kept this long there must be some reason to have
> done so....
>
> Thanks in advance,
> L.
>
>

Checking my data bases and other documentation there is very little
information pertaining to the value of the 61 vintage. My information
indicates that last time that this wine was auctioned at a major auction
house was in December of 1996 . This was an auction at Zachys-Christie's. At
that time the auction price was US $76.67. It was a very fine year for this
chateau. The key here, as with all fine wines, is how was it stored. You
might take it into a good local wine shop and have them take a look at it.




"Lenmeister" > wrote in message
. ..
> Hi,
> I'm hoping to get some info on a vintage bottle that a recently
deceased
> relative has been keeping. it's got the following written on the label:
>
> grants of St.James ltd
> Grand cru classe
> 1961
> chateau haut-batailley pauillac
> appellation pauillac controlee
> mis en boutaille au chateau
> Francis Borie propretaire
>
> Sorry to be so vague, but I have no idea about these things, I just
> figure that as it's been kept this long there must be some reason to have
> done so....
>
> Thanks in advance,
> L.
>
>

Hi there,

Michael Broadbent gives the following tasting note for the 1961
Haut-Batailley (which is what your wine sounds like):
'Almost exaggerated Pauillac blackcurrant fragrance, crisp, silky, delicious
(4 stars of 5)
Similar wines are graded as dirnking well now (eg Lynch Bages)

Lucky you - 1961 is a fabled vintage. Enjoy soon with good freinds and
excellent food!
Johnners

ps the reference to Grants of St James is the bottlers - whilst nowadays
wine comes bottled from the chateau, in those days it would come in cask and
be bottled by the merchant, in this case, Grants, a well known English
merchant. This can lead to substantial bottle variation in these wines,
which is less in evidence now that they are chateau bottled. So I recommend
decanting the wine and serving it without too much ceremony in case you have
a duff bottle, and only let on what it is if the assembled crowd give good
report! And have a spare to hand!

"Lenmeister" > wrote in message
. ..
> Hi,
> I'm hoping to get some info on a vintage bottle that a recently
deceased
> relative has been keeping. it's got the following written on the label:
>
> grants of St.James ltd
> Grand cru classe
> 1961
> chateau haut-batailley pauillac
> appellation pauillac controlee
> mis en boutaille au chateau
> Francis Borie propretaire
>
> Sorry to be so vague, but I have no idea about these things, I just
> figure that as it's been kept this long there must be some reason to have
> done so....
>
> Thanks in advance,
> L.
>
>

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:39:42 +0000 (UTC), "Johnners" > said:

][]
] ps the reference to Grants of St James is the bottlers - whilst nowadays
] wine comes bottled from the chateau, in those days it would come in cask and
] be bottled by the merchant, in this case, Grants, a well known English
] merchant. This can lead to substantial bottle variation in these wines,
] which is less in evidence now that they are chateau bottled. So I recommend
] decanting the wine and serving it without too much ceremony in case you have
] a duff bottle, and only let on what it is if the assembled crowd give good
] report! And have a spare to hand!
]

The OP mentions that it is bottled at the Chateau, explicitly. I was confused by
this, actually.

For "the Lenmeister," sorry to hear about your relative, but if the wine was
kept in a cool cellar you've likely got a very nice drink indeed. Keep it in
a cool place until you're ready to use, then let it come to room temperature
over 24 hrs, upright.

I'd not bother trying to sell it even if you're interested, it would hardly be worth it.
Enjoy it with family, and toast the departed. BTW this is likely better than "5th
growth" would suggest, and it is a legendary vintage.

-E

P.S. Let's please avoid top posting, TIA.

] "Lenmeister" > wrote in message
] . ..
] > Hi,
] > I'm hoping to get some info on a vintage bottle that a recently
] deceased
] > relative has been keeping. it's got the following written on the label:
] >
] > grants of St.James ltd
] > Grand cru classe
] > 1961
] > chateau haut-batailley pauillac
] > appellation pauillac controlee
] > mis en boutaille au chateau
] > Francis Borie propretaire
] >
] > Sorry to be so vague, but I have no idea about these things, I just
] > figure that as it's been kept this long there must be some reason to have
] > done so....
] >
] > Thanks in advance,
] > L.
] >
] >
]
]


--
Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies

Salut/Hi Johnners,

le/on Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:39:42 +0000 (UTC), tu disais/you said:-

>ps the reference to Grants of St James is the bottlers - whilst nowadays
>wine comes bottled from the chateau, in those days it would come in cask and
>be bottled by the merchant, in this case, Grants, a well known English
>merchant. This can lead to substantial bottle variation in these wines,
>which is less in evidence now that they are chateau bottled.

Errm, (forgetting the error about where the wine was bottled) What is the
basis for this assertion?

In '63 or so when this wine would have been bottled, it was relatively
common for top Bordeaux to be sold in barrel and bottled by top class wine
shippers in the UK. In fact, it is arguable that in the case of slightly
lesser chateaux (Haut Batailly is a 5th growth but WAY behind the best, like
Lynch-Bages) which didn't have the sort of funds that the 1st growth had. So
often, merchant bottling (I'm particularly thinking of Berry Bros for
example) was done with far greater care than at the chateau. Chateau
bottling was supposed to be a guarantee of authenticity - some bottlers in
those days were less, err, meticulous about what they put in, but that
certainly wasn't the case for Grant's whose bottlings were of the highest
quality.


--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

"Lenmeister" > wrote:

> grants of St.James ltd

The importer/merchant of the wine.

> Grand cru classe
> 1961
> chateau haut-batailley pauillac
> appellation pauillac controlee
> mis en boutaille au chateau
^
e
> Francis Borie propretaire

The same family ownership as the much heralded Ducru-Beaucaillou and
Grand-Puy-Lacoste (acquired later).

M.

"Lenmeister" > wrote in message
. ..
> Hi,
> I'm hoping to get some info on a vintage bottle that a recently
deceased
> relative has been keeping. it's got the following written on the label:
>
> grants of St.James ltd
> Grand cru classe
> 1961
> chateau haut-batailley pauillac
> appellation pauillac controlee
> mis en boutaille au chateau
> Francis Borie propretaire
>
> Sorry to be so vague, but I have no idea about these things, I just
> figure that as it's been kept this long there must be some reason to have
> done so....
>
> Thanks in advance,
> L.
>
>

Thankyou to all for your help, much appreciated

Hello Ian,

I suppose I don't have much in the way of evidence for this comment, other
than information cleaned from what I've read. Alas I do not have the funds
for a comparative of merchant bottlings...ah, if only!

I think that you are absolutely right that some of the great merchants did
bottle with much more care than chateaux would have done at that time, but I
would still have thought that if you bottle the same wine at different times
in different parts of the country, especially without the science that we
have now to stabilise wine, there must be variation. It doesn't have to be
bad, either - just different.

Has anyone conducted or attended a tasting where the topic of different
merchant bottlings has cropped up?

Johnners

"Ian Hoare" > wrote in message
news
> Salut/Hi Johnners,
>
> le/on Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:39:42 +0000 (UTC), tu disais/you said:-
>
> >ps the reference to Grants of St James is the bottlers - whilst nowadays
> >wine comes bottled from the chateau, in those days it would come in cask
and
> >be bottled by the merchant, in this case, Grants, a well known English
> >merchant. This can lead to substantial bottle variation in these wines,
> >which is less in evidence now that they are chateau bottled.
>
> Errm, (forgetting the error about where the wine was bottled) What is the
> basis for this assertion?
>
> In '63 or so when this wine would have been bottled, it was relatively
> common for top Bordeaux to be sold in barrel and bottled by top class wine
> shippers in the UK. In fact, it is arguable that in the case of slightly
> lesser chateaux (Haut Batailly is a 5th growth but WAY behind the best,
like
> Lynch-Bages) which didn't have the sort of funds that the 1st growth had.
So
> often, merchant bottling (I'm particularly thinking of Berry Bros for
> example) was done with far greater care than at the chateau. Chateau
> bottling was supposed to be a guarantee of authenticity - some bottlers in
> those days were less, err, meticulous about what they put in, but that
> certainly wasn't the case for Grant's whose bottlings were of the highest
> quality.
>
>
> --
> All the Best
> Ian Hoare
> http://www.souvigne.com
> mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

"Johnners" > wrote:

> Has anyone conducted or attended a tasting where the topic of
> different merchant bottlings has cropped up?

Michael Broadbent writes a little about it in the three issues of
his Great Vintage Wine Book (1980, 1991, 2003). The problem is
that different négociant bottlings invariably also have different
provenances including, of course, different cellar temperatures.
This makes it practically impossible to state patterns of quality
or excellence between different bottlings.

One year ago, e.g, I had a beautiful magnum of Léoville-Barton
bottled by Justerini & Brooks - it still had 10 to 20 years of
life ahead. So this would be an indication that J&B did a good
job, but it's not scientifical evidence, of course. Another very
reputable bottler is Van der Meulen in Belgium who specialised in
top right bank wines (Petrus, Cheval Blanc et al.).

M.