My general impression from listening to others is that
a) Austrian wines are not cheap
b) They offer good value for money

Would people here agree with these propositions, and do they apply at
all price levels for Austrian wines?

The reason I ask is that yesterday I tried several Austrian wines that
are probably at the bottom end of what anyone would currently bother
importing into the UK. They varied in price between GBP 8.00 and
13.00. Everyone who tried these wines felt they offered generally
poor VFM. My opinion was that the range was from "shockingly
overpriced" to "about right". I only have sketchy notes, but if
anyone is really interested in exploring the issue in detail, give me
a shout and I will post them.

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

Steve Slatcher > wrote:

> My general impression from listening to others is that
> a) Austrian wines are not cheap
> b) They offer good value for money

It always depends on wh´at you look at. Hirtzberger's, FX Pichler
or Alois Kracher's top bottlings - world class that they are - are
the best the country has to offer, and they are not cheap.

Otoh, you can find phantastic QPR off the beaten track:
Jurtschitsch, Allram, Eichinger, Toni Mayr, Ott - and many, many
others.

Your statements a) and b) would be right for 50 per cent of all
wine growing regions in the world. You can insert Bordeaux,
Burgundy or any other region.

M.

Steve Slatcher > wrote:

> My general impression from listening to others is that
> a) Austrian wines are not cheap
> b) They offer good value for money

It always depends on wh´at you look at. Hirtzberger's, FX Pichler
or Alois Kracher's top bottlings - world class that they are - are
the best the country has to offer, and they are not cheap.

Otoh, you can find phantastic QPR off the beaten track:
Jurtschitsch, Allram, Eichinger, Toni Mayr, Ott - and many, many
others.

Your statements a) and b) would be right for 50 per cent of all
wine growing regions in the world. You can insert Bordeaux,
Burgundy or any other region.

M.

On 31 Jul 2004 16:00:44 GMT, Michael Pronay > wrote:

>Steve Slatcher > wrote:
>
>> My general impression from listening to others is that
>> a) Austrian wines are not cheap
>> b) They offer good value for money
>
>It always depends on wh´at you look at. Hirtzberger's, FX Pichler
>or Alois Kracher's top bottlings - world class that they are - are
>the best the country has to offer, and they are not cheap.
>
>Otoh, you can find phantastic QPR off the beaten track:
>Jurtschitsch, Allram, Eichinger, Toni Mayr, Ott - and many, many
>others.

Would wines from these good QPR producers be available at
sub-10.00GBP? That was the nub of my question.

>Your statements a) and b) would be right for 50 per cent of all
>wine growing regions in the world. You can insert Bordeaux,
>Burgundy or any other region.

*Most* wine growing regions produce wines that are cheap, in addition
of couse some produce expensive wine. I have not seen evidence of
cheap wine coming out of Austria.

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

On 31 Jul 2004 16:00:44 GMT, Michael Pronay > wrote:

>Steve Slatcher > wrote:
>
>> My general impression from listening to others is that
>> a) Austrian wines are not cheap
>> b) They offer good value for money
>
>It always depends on wh´at you look at. Hirtzberger's, FX Pichler
>or Alois Kracher's top bottlings - world class that they are - are
>the best the country has to offer, and they are not cheap.
>
>Otoh, you can find phantastic QPR off the beaten track:
>Jurtschitsch, Allram, Eichinger, Toni Mayr, Ott - and many, many
>others.

Would wines from these good QPR producers be available at
sub-10.00GBP? That was the nub of my question.

>Your statements a) and b) would be right for 50 per cent of all
>wine growing regions in the world. You can insert Bordeaux,
>Burgundy or any other region.

*Most* wine growing regions produce wines that are cheap, in addition
of couse some produce expensive wine. I have not seen evidence of
cheap wine coming out of Austria.

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

Steve Slatcher > wrote:

>> Otoh, you can find phantastic QPR off the beaten track:
>> Jurtschitsch, Allram, Eichinger, Toni Mayr, Ott - and many,
>> many others.

> Would wines from these good QPR producers be available at
> sub-10.00GBP?

Are you talking about ex-cellar export prices or retail in UK? In
the first case: definitely yes; as to the latter, I have no idea.

M.

Steve Slatcher > wrote:

>> Otoh, you can find phantastic QPR off the beaten track:
>> Jurtschitsch, Allram, Eichinger, Toni Mayr, Ott - and many,
>> many others.

> Would wines from these good QPR producers be available at
> sub-10.00GBP?

Are you talking about ex-cellar export prices or retail in UK? In
the first case: definitely yes; as to the latter, I have no idea.

M.

On 1 Aug 2004 07:39:17 GMT, Michael Pronay > wrote:

>Steve Slatcher > wrote:
>
>>> Otoh, you can find phantastic QPR off the beaten track:
>>> Jurtschitsch, Allram, Eichinger, Toni Mayr, Ott - and many,
>>> many others.
>
>> Would wines from these good QPR producers be available at
>> sub-10.00GBP?
>
>Are you talking about ex-cellar export prices or retail in UK? In
>the first case: definitely yes; as to the latter, I have no idea.

Retail.

These were the wines we tried:
http://www.stirbitch.com/cgi-bin/cam...ate=2004-07-30

IMO (and it is only my opinion of course) the only wines that
approached value for money were the Loibner Schütt and the Neuburger.

The Rosé bottle was left half-full - a rare event at our "tastings" -
and scandalous for a wine costing £8.00! And the Sekt was also IMO
particulalry poor VFM.

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

On 1 Aug 2004 07:39:17 GMT, Michael Pronay > wrote:

>Steve Slatcher > wrote:
>
>>> Otoh, you can find phantastic QPR off the beaten track:
>>> Jurtschitsch, Allram, Eichinger, Toni Mayr, Ott - and many,
>>> many others.
>
>> Would wines from these good QPR producers be available at
>> sub-10.00GBP?
>
>Are you talking about ex-cellar export prices or retail in UK? In
>the first case: definitely yes; as to the latter, I have no idea.

Retail.

These were the wines we tried:
http://www.stirbitch.com/cgi-bin/cam...ate=2004-07-30

IMO (and it is only my opinion of course) the only wines that
approached value for money were the Loibner Schütt and the Neuburger.

The Rosé bottle was left half-full - a rare event at our "tastings" -
and scandalous for a wine costing £8.00! And the Sekt was also IMO
particulalry poor VFM.

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

Steve Slatcher > wrote:

> These were the wines we tried:
> http://www.stirbitch.com/cgi-bin/cam....pl?date=2004-
> 07-30

Well, that's always the same problem: Except for Jamek there are
no first or even second rank producers. Jamek is based in the
Wachau, arguably Austria's best white wine region. I wasn't even
aware of them bottling Sekt, and red wine is a total aberration
(or, mildly spoken: a curiosity) there.

M.

Steve Slatcher > wrote:

> These were the wines we tried:
> http://www.stirbitch.com/cgi-bin/cam....pl?date=2004-
> 07-30

Well, that's always the same problem: Except for Jamek there are
no first or even second rank producers. Jamek is based in the
Wachau, arguably Austria's best white wine region. I wasn't even
aware of them bottling Sekt, and red wine is a total aberration
(or, mildly spoken: a curiosity) there.

M.

Steve Slatcher wrote:
> My general impression from listening to others is that
> a) Austrian wines are not cheap
> b) They offer good value for money
>
> Would people here agree with these propositions, and do they apply at
> all price levels for Austrian wines?

Steve,
Of course we're dealing with two different markets (UK and US), but
I would agree with the general idea. To me, Austrian white wines are
world class and available here for between $15-30 per bottle for the
most part. Austrian GVs (mostly what I'm referring to here) are
exceptionally versatile food wines that also can age well and have
enough character to please even wine geeks such as myself. In this
price range, the other competition comes from NZ (SB), the Loire, Alsace
and Chablis, FWIW.

Mark Lipton

Steve Slatcher wrote:
> My general impression from listening to others is that
> a) Austrian wines are not cheap
> b) They offer good value for money
>
> Would people here agree with these propositions, and do they apply at
> all price levels for Austrian wines?

Steve,
Of course we're dealing with two different markets (UK and US), but
I would agree with the general idea. To me, Austrian white wines are
world class and available here for between $15-30 per bottle for the
most part. Austrian GVs (mostly what I'm referring to here) are
exceptionally versatile food wines that also can age well and have
enough character to please even wine geeks such as myself. In this
price range, the other competition comes from NZ (SB), the Loire, Alsace
and Chablis, FWIW.

Mark Lipton

Even at the high end, such as TBA and Eiswein, Austrian wines often can
be a good value compared with wines from some of the top German estates.
Of course it helps that growing conditions are right for these late
harvest wines in parts of Austria much more often than in the better
regions of Germany. Of course Austria has made tons of sweet wines in
the past that were not so good, but the same can be said for many other
countries.

In the US, Swiss wines seem to give the least value for the money. There
are some very good Swiss wines, but they are difficult to find here.
Production is limited, and the Swiss seem to drink most of the best
rather than exporting them.

My mailbox is always full to avoid spam. To contact me, erase
from my email address. Then add . I do not
check this box every day, so post if you need a quick response.

On Sun, 1 Aug 2004 17:08:03 -0500, (Cwdjrx _) said:

[]
] In the US, Swiss wines seem to give the least value for the money. There
] are some very good Swiss wines, but they are difficult to find here.
] Production is limited, and the Swiss seem to drink most of the best
] rather than exporting them.
]

They are very expensive, even in Suisse. I've been told that high labor
cost skews the equation. Not to mention some very steep slopes, much
as with Hermitage; some parcels require treatment by helicopter.

-E

--
Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies

On Sun, 1 Aug 2004 17:08:03 -0500, (Cwdjrx _) said:

[]
] In the US, Swiss wines seem to give the least value for the money. There
] are some very good Swiss wines, but they are difficult to find here.
] Production is limited, and the Swiss seem to drink most of the best
] rather than exporting them.
]

They are very expensive, even in Suisse. I've been told that high labor
cost skews the equation. Not to mention some very steep slopes, much
as with Hermitage; some parcels require treatment by helicopter.

-E

--
Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies