What a wonderful surprise today at Costco, $13.89 for a full bodied.
scrumptious wine with a nice tannic finish. We ate it with the de rigeur
rotisserie chicken from Costco, but it could easily do duty with a rack of
lamb. Unless I find this cheaper elsewhere it has moved up on my scaleto
buy all you can, now.

I like Rhone wine, but can't usually really afford (or want to afford as I
could a few years ago when a local store was closing out 1990 Hermitage and
I was buying everything in sight) a steady diet of the better northerns but
this wine is one clone that stands out in its own right. (normally I drink
Rhone clones and immediately go backto the real thing, here the clone is
the real deal)

Goat Roti oh yeah Baby!

jcoulter wrote:
> What a wonderful surprise today at Costco, $13.89 for a full bodied.
> scrumptious wine with a nice tannic finish. We ate it with the de rigeur
> rotisserie chicken from Costco, but it could easily do duty with a rack of
> lamb. Unless I find this cheaper elsewhere it has moved up on my scaleto
> buy all you can, now.
>
> I like Rhone wine, but can't usually really afford (or want to afford as I
> could a few years ago when a local store was closing out 1990 Hermitage and
> I was buying everything in sight) a steady diet of the better northerns but
> this wine is one clone that stands out in its own right. (normally I drink
> Rhone clones and immediately go backto the real thing, here the clone is
> the real deal)
>
> Goat Roti oh yeah Baby!

Wife recently emptied Costco's of an extended radius from our house. We
had our first bottle with rack of lamb and it was magnificent.

jcoulter wrote:
> What a wonderful surprise today at Costco, $13.89 for a full bodied.
> scrumptious wine with a nice tannic finish. We ate it with the de rigeur
> rotisserie chicken from Costco, but it could easily do duty with a rack of
> lamb. Unless I find this cheaper elsewhere it has moved up on my scaleto
> buy all you can, now.
>
> I like Rhone wine, but can't usually really afford (or want to afford as I
> could a few years ago when a local store was closing out 1990 Hermitage and
> I was buying everything in sight) a steady diet of the better northerns but
> this wine is one clone that stands out in its own right. (normally I drink
> Rhone clones and immediately go backto the real thing, here the clone is
> the real deal)
>
> Goat Roti oh yeah Baby!

Wife recently emptied Costco's of an extended radius from our house. We
had our first bottle with rack of lamb and it was magnificent.

jcoulter wrote:
>
> Goat Roti oh yeah Baby!

I opened this post expecting to read about possible pairings for the
wonderful West Indian dish. Sort of a curry pie or patty in Grenada, or
curried meats in a crepe or a wrap in other WI's.

Does make me wonder how a goat roti would go with ... a goat roti.

-- kov

Salut/Hi Ken Overton,

le/on Mon, 16 Aug 2004 19:13:16 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

>jcoulter wrote:
>>
>> Goat Roti oh yeah Baby!
>
>I opened this post expecting to read about possible pairings for the
>wonderful West Indian dish. Sort of a curry pie or patty in Grenada, or
>curried meats in a crepe or a wrap in other WI's.

Hmm, I was underwhelmed by goat roti. On the other hand the conch roti we
had in the Grenadines was truly memorable (the proof is that I remember it)
as was the chicken Roti I had in St Lucia, though that was more memorable
for the proportion of bone to meat. However, in fairness I must say that
goat roti was better than the goat curry we tried in Saba, and much better
than the goat colombo we had in St Martin. I've come to the conclusion that
goats are not my favourite domestic animal. The milk tastes of goat, the
meat tastes of goat and the whole area where they live stinks. They escape
and eat my vegetables and I don't even like goat cheese. (Though the one we
had in Turin made in the UK was an honourable exception - not enough to
justify goats, but at least it eas edible).

>Does make me wonder how a goat roti would go with ... a goat roti.

Beeeeeeh.

--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

>>jcoulter wrote:
>>>
>>> Goat Roti oh yeah Baby!

Have you tried the Goats du Rhone?
Bi!!

>>jcoulter wrote:
>>>
>>> Goat Roti oh yeah Baby!

Have you tried the Goats du Rhone?
Bi!!

(RV WRLee) wrote in news:20040817140051.04675.00001142@mb-
m21.aol.com:

>>>jcoulter wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Goat Roti oh yeah Baby!
>
> Have you tried the Goats du Rhone?
> Bi!!
>

Actually I haven't but I have hears good things. If you have tried both it
would be interesting to see haoe they stack up in a vertical as it were.

(RV WRLee) wrote in news:20040817140051.04675.00001142@mb-
m21.aol.com:

>>>jcoulter wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Goat Roti oh yeah Baby!
>
> Have you tried the Goats du Rhone?
> Bi!!
>

Actually I haven't but I have hears good things. If you have tried both it
would be interesting to see haoe they stack up in a vertical as it were.

>>>>jcoulter wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Goat Roti oh yeah Baby!
>>
>> Have you tried the Goats du Rhone?
>> Bi!!
>>
>
>Actually I haven't but I have hears good things. If you have tried both it
>would be interesting to see haoe they stack up in a vertical as it were.
>

IMO, the Goat Roti is a bit better of the two.
Bi!!

"RV WRLee" > wrote in message
...
> >>>>jcoulter wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Goat Roti oh yeah Baby!
> >>
> >> Have you tried the Goats du Rhone?
> >> Bi!!
> >>
> >
> >Actually I haven't but I have hears good things. If you have tried both
it
> >would be interesting to see haoe they stack up in a vertical as it were.
> >
>
> IMO, the Goat Roti is a bit better of the two.
> Bi!!

There's now a 'Goats do Roam in Villages' as well as the basic 'Goats do
Roam'

"RV WRLee" > wrote in message
...
> >>>>jcoulter wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Goat Roti oh yeah Baby!
> >>
> >> Have you tried the Goats du Rhone?
> >> Bi!!
> >>
> >
> >Actually I haven't but I have hears good things. If you have tried both
it
> >would be interesting to see haoe they stack up in a vertical as it were.
> >
>
> IMO, the Goat Roti is a bit better of the two.
> Bi!!

There's now a 'Goats do Roam in Villages' as well as the basic 'Goats do
Roam'

On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 18:29:45 +0200, Ian Hoare > said:

] Salut/Hi Ken Overton,
]
] le/on Mon, 16 Aug 2004 19:13:16 GMT, tu disais/you said:-
]
] >jcoulter wrote:
] >>
] >> Goat Roti oh yeah Baby!
] >
] >I opened this post expecting to read about possible pairings for the
] >wonderful West Indian dish. Sort of a curry pie or patty in Grenada, or
] >curried meats in a crepe or a wrap in other WI's.
]
] Hmm, I was underwhelmed by goat roti. On the other hand the conch roti we
] had in the Grenadines was truly memorable (the proof is that I remember it)
] as was the chicken Roti I had in St Lucia, though that was more memorable
] for the proportion of bone to meat. However, in fairness I must say that
] goat roti was better than the goat curry we tried in Saba, and much better
] than the goat colombo we had in St Martin. I've come to the conclusion that
] goats are not my favourite domestic animal. The milk tastes of goat, the
]

Your goaty predjudice aside, Ian, the key seems to be to eat "kid" rather than
"goat", just as most prefer "lamb" to "mutton."

Last year I was served a rack of kid, simply roasted with potatoes. It was
excellent, a bit gamey, but then I like that. In fact that evening I had brought
a northern Rhone syrah which my hosts saw fit to open, with good effect as
I recall.

-E

--
Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies

On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 18:29:45 +0200, Ian Hoare > said:

] Salut/Hi Ken Overton,
]
] le/on Mon, 16 Aug 2004 19:13:16 GMT, tu disais/you said:-
]
] >jcoulter wrote:
] >>
] >> Goat Roti oh yeah Baby!
] >
] >I opened this post expecting to read about possible pairings for the
] >wonderful West Indian dish. Sort of a curry pie or patty in Grenada, or
] >curried meats in a crepe or a wrap in other WI's.
]
] Hmm, I was underwhelmed by goat roti. On the other hand the conch roti we
] had in the Grenadines was truly memorable (the proof is that I remember it)
] as was the chicken Roti I had in St Lucia, though that was more memorable
] for the proportion of bone to meat. However, in fairness I must say that
] goat roti was better than the goat curry we tried in Saba, and much better
] than the goat colombo we had in St Martin. I've come to the conclusion that
] goats are not my favourite domestic animal. The milk tastes of goat, the
]

Your goaty predjudice aside, Ian, the key seems to be to eat "kid" rather than
"goat", just as most prefer "lamb" to "mutton."

Last year I was served a rack of kid, simply roasted with potatoes. It was
excellent, a bit gamey, but then I like that. In fact that evening I had brought
a northern Rhone syrah which my hosts saw fit to open, with good effect as
I recall.

-E

--
Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies

Salut/Hi Emery Davis,

le/on Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:01:46 +0200, tu disais/you said:-


>Your goaty predjudice aside, Ian, the key seems to be to eat "kid" rather than
>"goat", just as most prefer "lamb" to "mutton."

Prejudices, Emery? PREJUDICES? As you will have seen from the WIDE variety
of goat dishes to which I referred, I was meticulous in my _refusal_ to be
prejudiced. After all, x million west indians can't be wrong. Well, having
tasted a catholic selection of West Indian goat dishes, I have to say that x
million West Indians CAN be wrong. I rate it last in the "meats I have
tried" chart. Now if you were to say that I have anti horse prejudices, I
would be forced to agree. I've often had the opportunity and never availed
myself of them. THAT'S prejudice. Disliking goat is bitter experience backed
up by the inimitable pong of hot bouc wafting through my study window as I
type this missive.

I agree that kid is milder, but it's still goat you know.

>Last year I was served a rack of kid, simply roasted with potatoes. It was
>excellent, a bit gamey, but then I like that.

I love gamey meat, in fact I nearly drove off the road a couple of days ago,
trying to run down Mrs Hare and son, on the way up to St Bonnet Elvert. She
took to the hills, with my car in hot pursuit. It was only Jacquie's
pointing out that we had all our meals planned for the next three weeks that
reprieved them. So I have no probs at all with gamey meat. But I'm afraid I
still find kid a paler version of goat with the added disadvantage of a
gloppy texture. (don't take all this TOO seriously. Emery, I just enjoy a
good rant from time to time).

> In fact that evening I had brought a northern Rhone syrah which my hosts saw fit to open, with good effect as
>I recall.

Kid rotie in fact. No frenchman ever serves a goat Rotie at it's full 20 yo
glory. (s******).


--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

Salut/Hi Emery Davis,

le/on Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:01:46 +0200, tu disais/you said:-


>Your goaty predjudice aside, Ian, the key seems to be to eat "kid" rather than
>"goat", just as most prefer "lamb" to "mutton."

Prejudices, Emery? PREJUDICES? As you will have seen from the WIDE variety
of goat dishes to which I referred, I was meticulous in my _refusal_ to be
prejudiced. After all, x million west indians can't be wrong. Well, having
tasted a catholic selection of West Indian goat dishes, I have to say that x
million West Indians CAN be wrong. I rate it last in the "meats I have
tried" chart. Now if you were to say that I have anti horse prejudices, I
would be forced to agree. I've often had the opportunity and never availed
myself of them. THAT'S prejudice. Disliking goat is bitter experience backed
up by the inimitable pong of hot bouc wafting through my study window as I
type this missive.

I agree that kid is milder, but it's still goat you know.

>Last year I was served a rack of kid, simply roasted with potatoes. It was
>excellent, a bit gamey, but then I like that.

I love gamey meat, in fact I nearly drove off the road a couple of days ago,
trying to run down Mrs Hare and son, on the way up to St Bonnet Elvert. She
took to the hills, with my car in hot pursuit. It was only Jacquie's
pointing out that we had all our meals planned for the next three weeks that
reprieved them. So I have no probs at all with gamey meat. But I'm afraid I
still find kid a paler version of goat with the added disadvantage of a
gloppy texture. (don't take all this TOO seriously. Emery, I just enjoy a
good rant from time to time).

> In fact that evening I had brought a northern Rhone syrah which my hosts saw fit to open, with good effect as
>I recall.

Kid rotie in fact. No frenchman ever serves a goat Rotie at it's full 20 yo
glory. (s******).


--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 23:35:06 +0200, Ian Hoare > said:

] Salut/Hi Emery Davis,
]
] le/on Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:01:46 +0200, tu disais/you said:-
]
]
] >Your goaty predjudice aside, Ian, the key seems to be to eat "kid" rather than
] >"goat", just as most prefer "lamb" to "mutton."
]
] Prejudices, Emery? PREJUDICES? As you will have seen from the WIDE variety
] of goat dishes to which I referred, I was meticulous in my _refusal_ to be
] prejudiced. After all, x million west indians can't be wrong. Well, having
] tasted a catholic selection of West Indian goat dishes, I have to say that x
] million West Indians CAN be wrong. I rate it last in the "meats I have
[snip rant]

With tongue still firmly planted in cheek, I will merely point out that your
logic is flawlessly inductive.

] >Last year I was served a rack of kid, simply roasted with potatoes. It was
] >excellent, a bit gamey, but then I like that.
]
] I love gamey meat, in fact I nearly drove off the road a couple of days ago,
] trying to run down Mrs Hare and son, on the way up to St Bonnet Elvert. She
] took to the hills, with my car in hot pursuit. It was only Jacquie's
] pointing out that we had all our meals planned for the next three weeks that
] reprieved them. So I have no probs at all with gamey meat. But I'm afraid I
] still find kid a paler version of goat with the added disadvantage of a
] gloppy texture. (don't take all this TOO seriously. Emery, I just enjoy a
] good rant from time to time).
]

One of those drivers, eh? Last year I stopped by at a friends house, in the courtyard
the dogs were riddling something mysterious, which on inspection turned out to be
a boar's foot. Inside, the diningroom table had been converted with a huge board
to a butchery for the animal. It was not even hunting season -- not that you're allowed
to do your own butchery anyway -- so I asked; it turned out to be road kill. Apparently
Benoit had stopped at an accident, seen the beast that caused it not unduly damaged,
and promptly absconded with the goods. I was shocked of course, but not so much
that I was unwilling to put a few kilos of stew meat in the freezer. It was good, too!

As for gloppy texture, my experience may be more limited, but it doesn't agree with
that. (Not to worry about the rant, it adds a little spice to the discussion )

] > In fact that evening I had brought a northern Rhone syrah which my hosts saw fit to open, with good effect as
] >I recall.
]
] Kid rotie in fact. No frenchman ever serves a goat Rotie at it's full 20 yo
] glory. (s******).
]

S****** indeed. In fact I can't recall whether it was a CR or Hermitage that I brought,
more's the pity!

-E
--
Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 23:35:06 +0200, Ian Hoare > said:

] Salut/Hi Emery Davis,
]
] le/on Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:01:46 +0200, tu disais/you said:-
]
]
] >Your goaty predjudice aside, Ian, the key seems to be to eat "kid" rather than
] >"goat", just as most prefer "lamb" to "mutton."
]
] Prejudices, Emery? PREJUDICES? As you will have seen from the WIDE variety
] of goat dishes to which I referred, I was meticulous in my _refusal_ to be
] prejudiced. After all, x million west indians can't be wrong. Well, having
] tasted a catholic selection of West Indian goat dishes, I have to say that x
] million West Indians CAN be wrong. I rate it last in the "meats I have
[snip rant]

With tongue still firmly planted in cheek, I will merely point out that your
logic is flawlessly inductive.

] >Last year I was served a rack of kid, simply roasted with potatoes. It was
] >excellent, a bit gamey, but then I like that.
]
] I love gamey meat, in fact I nearly drove off the road a couple of days ago,
] trying to run down Mrs Hare and son, on the way up to St Bonnet Elvert. She
] took to the hills, with my car in hot pursuit. It was only Jacquie's
] pointing out that we had all our meals planned for the next three weeks that
] reprieved them. So I have no probs at all with gamey meat. But I'm afraid I
] still find kid a paler version of goat with the added disadvantage of a
] gloppy texture. (don't take all this TOO seriously. Emery, I just enjoy a
] good rant from time to time).
]

One of those drivers, eh? Last year I stopped by at a friends house, in the courtyard
the dogs were riddling something mysterious, which on inspection turned out to be
a boar's foot. Inside, the diningroom table had been converted with a huge board
to a butchery for the animal. It was not even hunting season -- not that you're allowed
to do your own butchery anyway -- so I asked; it turned out to be road kill. Apparently
Benoit had stopped at an accident, seen the beast that caused it not unduly damaged,
and promptly absconded with the goods. I was shocked of course, but not so much
that I was unwilling to put a few kilos of stew meat in the freezer. It was good, too!

As for gloppy texture, my experience may be more limited, but it doesn't agree with
that. (Not to worry about the rant, it adds a little spice to the discussion )

] > In fact that evening I had brought a northern Rhone syrah which my hosts saw fit to open, with good effect as
] >I recall.
]
] Kid rotie in fact. No frenchman ever serves a goat Rotie at it's full 20 yo
] glory. (s******).
]

S****** indeed. In fact I can't recall whether it was a CR or Hermitage that I brought,
more's the pity!

-E
--
Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies

> It was not even hunting season -- not that you're allowed
>to do your own butchery anyway -- so I asked; it turned out to be road kill.
>Apparently
>Benoit had stopped at an accident, seen the beast that caused it not unduly
>damaged,
>and promptly absconded with the goods.

I was driving in the States (I'm Canadian) in one of my oddball cars, a Jensen
CV-8 (http://www.rhodo.citymax.com/albums/...402/316512.htm)

when I was 'attacked' by a fully dressed pig that fell off a truck in front of
me. The truck just kept on going, and had I not been just heading out on a trip
to Oregon, I'd have turfed the carcase in the back and headed for home!

Beware, though. If an animal dies in fear for its life, you get a rush of
adrenalin or some such that makes the meat taste strange - had a calf that fell
off a pickup at the farm when we were moving it and broke it's neck - there
followed the year (or damn near it) of odd tasting roasts - the ones we didn't
manage to give away to friends, at least.

Guess you have to sneak up on them and whack 'em quick - at least that's what
an elderly European farmer of wild boar tells me. Here, piggie, piggie......

> It was not even hunting season -- not that you're allowed
>to do your own butchery anyway -- so I asked; it turned out to be road kill.
>Apparently
>Benoit had stopped at an accident, seen the beast that caused it not unduly
>damaged,
>and promptly absconded with the goods.

I was driving in the States (I'm Canadian) in one of my oddball cars, a Jensen
CV-8 (http://www.rhodo.citymax.com/albums/...402/316512.htm)

when I was 'attacked' by a fully dressed pig that fell off a truck in front of
me. The truck just kept on going, and had I not been just heading out on a trip
to Oregon, I'd have turfed the carcase in the back and headed for home!

Beware, though. If an animal dies in fear for its life, you get a rush of
adrenalin or some such that makes the meat taste strange - had a calf that fell
off a pickup at the farm when we were moving it and broke it's neck - there
followed the year (or damn near it) of odd tasting roasts - the ones we didn't
manage to give away to friends, at least.

Guess you have to sneak up on them and whack 'em quick - at least that's what
an elderly European farmer of wild boar tells me. Here, piggie, piggie......

Bill Spohn wrote:


> Beware, though. If an animal dies in fear for its life, you get a rush of
> adrenalin or some such that makes the meat taste strange - had a calf that fell
> off a pickup at the farm when we were moving it and broke it's neck - there
> followed the year (or damn near it) of odd tasting roasts - the ones we didn't
> manage to give away to friends, at least.

Tch, Bill. Have you never been apprised of the goings-on at
slaughterhouses? Those roasts at your butcher are from animals gently
euthanized? Back to Upton Sinclair for you, Bill! ;-)

>
> Guess you have to sneak up on them and whack 'em quick - at least that's what
> an elderly European farmer of wild boar tells me. Here, piggie, piggie......

Living here in the semi-rural Midwest, there is more than the occasional
car/deer contact on the roads hereabouts. A good friend who is a deer
hunter has been known to throw the accidentally clipped buck into the
back of the pickup (carefully tagging it, of course!), and some usually
finds its way to our freezer. Alas, corn-fed whitetail deer is not
nearly gamey enough for the likes of me (having been permanently spoiled
by my introduction to Rehrücken in Germany at age 9, though the
grass-fed red deer of NZ came close) but still goes well with the vinous
contents of the Stygian depths of Maison Lipton.

Mark Lipton

Bill Spohn wrote:


> Beware, though. If an animal dies in fear for its life, you get a rush of
> adrenalin or some such that makes the meat taste strange - had a calf that fell
> off a pickup at the farm when we were moving it and broke it's neck - there
> followed the year (or damn near it) of odd tasting roasts - the ones we didn't
> manage to give away to friends, at least.

Tch, Bill. Have you never been apprised of the goings-on at
slaughterhouses? Those roasts at your butcher are from animals gently
euthanized? Back to Upton Sinclair for you, Bill! ;-)

>
> Guess you have to sneak up on them and whack 'em quick - at least that's what
> an elderly European farmer of wild boar tells me. Here, piggie, piggie......

Living here in the semi-rural Midwest, there is more than the occasional
car/deer contact on the roads hereabouts. A good friend who is a deer
hunter has been known to throw the accidentally clipped buck into the
back of the pickup (carefully tagging it, of course!), and some usually
finds its way to our freezer. Alas, corn-fed whitetail deer is not
nearly gamey enough for the likes of me (having been permanently spoiled
by my introduction to Rehrücken in Germany at age 9, though the
grass-fed red deer of NZ came close) but still goes well with the vinous
contents of the Stygian depths of Maison Lipton.

Mark Lipton

>Tch, Bill. Have you never been apprised of the goings-on at
>slaughterhouses? Those roasts at your butcher are from animals gently
>euthanized?

No, and that is what the elderly gent was complaining about. He said that
although health dept. regs demanded that his pigs be shipped to a certified
slaughterhouse in Vancouver, they had no idea how to do it without riling up
the pigs, and the result affected the taste.

I used to go up there and pick mine up, presumably slaughtered in a manner that
didn't surprise or upset the boar.

Here piggie, piggie, come and get a nice piggie treat .......WHACK!!

>Tch, Bill. Have you never been apprised of the goings-on at
>slaughterhouses? Those roasts at your butcher are from animals gently
>euthanized?

No, and that is what the elderly gent was complaining about. He said that
although health dept. regs demanded that his pigs be shipped to a certified
slaughterhouse in Vancouver, they had no idea how to do it without riling up
the pigs, and the result affected the taste.

I used to go up there and pick mine up, presumably slaughtered in a manner that
didn't surprise or upset the boar.

Here piggie, piggie, come and get a nice piggie treat .......WHACK!!

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 14:18:38 -0500, Mark Lipton >
wrote:

>Bill Spohn wrote:
>
>
>> Beware, though. If an animal dies in fear for its life, you get a rush of
>> adrenalin or some such that makes the meat taste strange - had a calf that fell
>> off a pickup at the farm when we were moving it and broke it's neck - there
>> followed the year (or damn near it) of odd tasting roasts - the ones we didn't
>> manage to give away to friends, at least.
>
>Tch, Bill. Have you never been apprised of the goings-on at
>slaughterhouses? Those roasts at your butcher are from animals gently
>euthanized? Back to Upton Sinclair for you, Bill! ;-)
>
>>
>> Guess you have to sneak up on them and whack 'em quick - at least that's what
>> an elderly European farmer of wild boar tells me. Here, piggie, piggie......
>
>Living here in the semi-rural Midwest, there is more than the occasional
>car/deer contact on the roads hereabouts. A good friend who is a deer
>hunter has been known to throw the accidentally clipped buck into the
>back of the pickup (carefully tagging it, of course!), and some usually
>finds its way to our freezer. Alas, corn-fed whitetail deer is not
>nearly gamey enough for the likes of me (having been permanently spoiled
>by my introduction to Rehrücken in Germany at age 9, though the
>grass-fed red deer of NZ came close) but still goes well with the vinous
>contents of the Stygian depths of Maison Lipton.
>
>Mark Lipton

As a hunter and no friend of PETA, I might offer some comment. I've
heard the stories of the adrenaline damaged game, but will suggest
that it doesn't track with my experiences on mule deer, elk (wapiti)
and pronghorn antelope.

I've been fortunate (and maybe skilled enough) to make a lot of one
shot kills--the greatest percentage, and that is the goal of a good
hunter. But, occasionally there have been animals who didn't drop on
command and took some tracking and additional persuasion before their
demise. It shouldn't and doesn't happen with regularity.

My experience has been that there is no difference in taste between
game that has been instantaneously dispatched through the wilderness
portal of the pearly gates and game which has been wounded and pursued
before demise.

What really makes a difference with game is the method of butchering.
Gamey taste comes from bone dust, bone marrow and fat/gristle in the
meat. For the last fifteen years, I've insured that all my game meat
is boned and cleaned before packing and freezing. No bone saws ever!

The result is lean, solid meat that I've successfully foisted off on
friends who assert that they "hate" game. They get "beef"
bourgonionne, "steak" diane, "beef" wellington, and medallions of
whatzit without being any the wiser. They think they're eating the
finest milk-fed veal in the case of pronghorn, the tenderest of young
beef when fed mule deer, and the finest marbled Angus when dining on
elk.

And, it all goes quite nicely with a big Russian River PN, a
full-throttle Aussie Shiraz, a fruit-bomb zindandel, or almost
anything else that is appropriate for the preparation of the game du
jour.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
"Phantom Flights, Bangkok Nights"
Both from Smithsonian Books
***www.thunderchief.org

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 14:18:38 -0500, Mark Lipton >
wrote:

>Bill Spohn wrote:
>
>
>> Beware, though. If an animal dies in fear for its life, you get a rush of
>> adrenalin or some such that makes the meat taste strange - had a calf that fell
>> off a pickup at the farm when we were moving it and broke it's neck - there
>> followed the year (or damn near it) of odd tasting roasts - the ones we didn't
>> manage to give away to friends, at least.
>
>Tch, Bill. Have you never been apprised of the goings-on at
>slaughterhouses? Those roasts at your butcher are from animals gently
>euthanized? Back to Upton Sinclair for you, Bill! ;-)
>
>>
>> Guess you have to sneak up on them and whack 'em quick - at least that's what
>> an elderly European farmer of wild boar tells me. Here, piggie, piggie......
>
>Living here in the semi-rural Midwest, there is more than the occasional
>car/deer contact on the roads hereabouts. A good friend who is a deer
>hunter has been known to throw the accidentally clipped buck into the
>back of the pickup (carefully tagging it, of course!), and some usually
>finds its way to our freezer. Alas, corn-fed whitetail deer is not
>nearly gamey enough for the likes of me (having been permanently spoiled
>by my introduction to Rehrücken in Germany at age 9, though the
>grass-fed red deer of NZ came close) but still goes well with the vinous
>contents of the Stygian depths of Maison Lipton.
>
>Mark Lipton

As a hunter and no friend of PETA, I might offer some comment. I've
heard the stories of the adrenaline damaged game, but will suggest
that it doesn't track with my experiences on mule deer, elk (wapiti)
and pronghorn antelope.

I've been fortunate (and maybe skilled enough) to make a lot of one
shot kills--the greatest percentage, and that is the goal of a good
hunter. But, occasionally there have been animals who didn't drop on
command and took some tracking and additional persuasion before their
demise. It shouldn't and doesn't happen with regularity.

My experience has been that there is no difference in taste between
game that has been instantaneously dispatched through the wilderness
portal of the pearly gates and game which has been wounded and pursued
before demise.

What really makes a difference with game is the method of butchering.
Gamey taste comes from bone dust, bone marrow and fat/gristle in the
meat. For the last fifteen years, I've insured that all my game meat
is boned and cleaned before packing and freezing. No bone saws ever!

The result is lean, solid meat that I've successfully foisted off on
friends who assert that they "hate" game. They get "beef"
bourgonionne, "steak" diane, "beef" wellington, and medallions of
whatzit without being any the wiser. They think they're eating the
finest milk-fed veal in the case of pronghorn, the tenderest of young
beef when fed mule deer, and the finest marbled Angus when dining on
elk.

And, it all goes quite nicely with a big Russian River PN, a
full-throttle Aussie Shiraz, a fruit-bomb zindandel, or almost
anything else that is appropriate for the preparation of the game du
jour.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
"Phantom Flights, Bangkok Nights"
Both from Smithsonian Books
***www.thunderchief.org

"Ed Rasimus" > wrote in message
...
> They think they're eating the
> finest milk-fed veal in the case of pronghorn, the tenderest of young
> beef when fed mule deer, and the finest marbled Angus when dining on
> elk.

Wait a minute! I've had venison and elk before, shot and cleaned in much
the same fashion, and that stuff is _tough_! Not that it's bad, but let's
just say that it was well beyond "al dente". My shoes are softer.

The one exception was a one year old doe (shot by accident and hustled out
before the game warden came around). Now _that_ was tender.

Tom S

"Ed Rasimus" > wrote in message
...
> They think they're eating the
> finest milk-fed veal in the case of pronghorn, the tenderest of young
> beef when fed mule deer, and the finest marbled Angus when dining on
> elk.

Wait a minute! I've had venison and elk before, shot and cleaned in much
the same fashion, and that stuff is _tough_! Not that it's bad, but let's
just say that it was well beyond "al dente". My shoes are softer.

The one exception was a one year old doe (shot by accident and hustled out
before the game warden came around). Now _that_ was tender.

Tom S

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 05:30:20 GMT, "Tom S" >
wrote:

>
>"Ed Rasimus" > wrote in message
.. .
>> They think they're eating the
>> finest milk-fed veal in the case of pronghorn, the tenderest of young
>> beef when fed mule deer, and the finest marbled Angus when dining on
>> elk.
>
>Wait a minute! I've had venison and elk before, shot and cleaned in much
>the same fashion, and that stuff is _tough_! Not that it's bad, but let's
>just say that it was well beyond "al dente". My shoes are softer.
>
>The one exception was a one year old doe (shot by accident and hustled out
>before the game warden came around). Now _that_ was tender.
>
>Tom S
>

Toughness comes from over-cooking. Steaks should be quickly sauted,
seered in high heat to keep in the juices and served at the rare end
of the spectrum. Recognize that game meat is VERY low in fat, despite
being red like beef. Elk, for example is lower in cholesterol than
chicken!

The alternative, useful for roasts is long, slow cooking, usually in a
sauce.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
"Phantom Flights, Bangkok Nights"
Both from Smithsonian Books
***www.thunderchief.org

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 05:30:20 GMT, "Tom S" >
wrote:

>
>"Ed Rasimus" > wrote in message
.. .
>> They think they're eating the
>> finest milk-fed veal in the case of pronghorn, the tenderest of young
>> beef when fed mule deer, and the finest marbled Angus when dining on
>> elk.
>
>Wait a minute! I've had venison and elk before, shot and cleaned in much
>the same fashion, and that stuff is _tough_! Not that it's bad, but let's
>just say that it was well beyond "al dente". My shoes are softer.
>
>The one exception was a one year old doe (shot by accident and hustled out
>before the game warden came around). Now _that_ was tender.
>
>Tom S
>

Toughness comes from over-cooking. Steaks should be quickly sauted,
seered in high heat to keep in the juices and served at the rare end
of the spectrum. Recognize that game meat is VERY low in fat, despite
being red like beef. Elk, for example is lower in cholesterol than
chicken!

The alternative, useful for roasts is long, slow cooking, usually in a
sauce.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
"Phantom Flights, Bangkok Nights"
Both from Smithsonian Books
***www.thunderchief.org

On 19 Aug 2004 20:01:40 GMT, ojunk (Bill Spohn) wrote:

>>Tch, Bill. Have you never been apprised of the goings-on at
>>slaughterhouses? Those roasts at your butcher are from animals gently
>>euthanized?
>
>No, and that is what the elderly gent was complaining about. He said that
>although health dept. regs demanded that his pigs be shipped to a certified
>slaughterhouse in Vancouver, they had no idea how to do it without riling up
>the pigs, and the result affected the taste.
>
>I used to go up there and pick mine up, presumably slaughtered in a manner that
>didn't surprise or upset the boar.
>
>Here piggie, piggie, come and get a nice piggie treat .......WHACK!!

Bill, this wasn't the pig farm that was owned by the accused serial
killer who was suspected of burying his victims on his property, was
it? There was a time when one could not turn on the TV in Seattle
without seeing the clip of him climbing over a railing on his farm.
I'm sure you saw plenty of that in Vancouver. There was also some
suggestion that his pig meat contained "meat" from another species, if
you catch my drift. Maybe that would account for some strange tastes.
;-)

Vino
To reply, add "x" between
letters and numbers of
e-mail address.

On 19 Aug 2004 20:01:40 GMT, ojunk (Bill Spohn) wrote:

>>Tch, Bill. Have you never been apprised of the goings-on at
>>slaughterhouses? Those roasts at your butcher are from animals gently
>>euthanized?
>
>No, and that is what the elderly gent was complaining about. He said that
>although health dept. regs demanded that his pigs be shipped to a certified
>slaughterhouse in Vancouver, they had no idea how to do it without riling up
>the pigs, and the result affected the taste.
>
>I used to go up there and pick mine up, presumably slaughtered in a manner that
>didn't surprise or upset the boar.
>
>Here piggie, piggie, come and get a nice piggie treat .......WHACK!!

Bill, this wasn't the pig farm that was owned by the accused serial
killer who was suspected of burying his victims on his property, was
it? There was a time when one could not turn on the TV in Seattle
without seeing the clip of him climbing over a railing on his farm.
I'm sure you saw plenty of that in Vancouver. There was also some
suggestion that his pig meat contained "meat" from another species, if
you catch my drift. Maybe that would account for some strange tastes.
;-)

Vino
To reply, add "x" between
letters and numbers of
e-mail address.

>Bill, this wasn't the pig farm that was owned by the accused serial
>killer who was suspected of burying his victims on his property, was
>it?

Uh - no!

There was also some
>suggestion that his pig meat contained "meat" from another species, if>you
catch my drift. Maybe that would account for some strange tastes.

Technically known as 'long pig'

(http://www.dangerouslogic.com/battlelongpig.html) - don't read this if you are
squeamish!

>Bill, this wasn't the pig farm that was owned by the accused serial
>killer who was suspected of burying his victims on his property, was
>it?

Uh - no!

There was also some
>suggestion that his pig meat contained "meat" from another species, if>you
catch my drift. Maybe that would account for some strange tastes.

Technically known as 'long pig'

(http://www.dangerouslogic.com/battlelongpig.html) - don't read this if you are
squeamish!

Ed Rasimus wrote:

> Toughness comes from over-cooking. Steaks should be quickly sauted,
> seered in high heat to keep in the juices and served at the rare end
> of the spectrum. Recognize that game meat is VERY low in fat, despite
> being red like beef. Elk, for example is lower in cholesterol than
> chicken!

Yes, indeed, Ed. Many people make the mistake of thinking that they can
cook it like they do beef or lamb. I too usually flash pan fry my
venison steaks, but you can roast larger cuts of venison if you take
care that it doesn't dry out. Barding, a now largely forgotten
technique, works wonders (Exhibit A in why I haven't thrown out my 3rd
Ed. Joy of Cooking despite loss of structural integrity)

Mark Lipton

Ed Rasimus wrote:

> Toughness comes from over-cooking. Steaks should be quickly sauted,
> seered in high heat to keep in the juices and served at the rare end
> of the spectrum. Recognize that game meat is VERY low in fat, despite
> being red like beef. Elk, for example is lower in cholesterol than
> chicken!

Yes, indeed, Ed. Many people make the mistake of thinking that they can
cook it like they do beef or lamb. I too usually flash pan fry my
venison steaks, but you can roast larger cuts of venison if you take
care that it doesn't dry out. Barding, a now largely forgotten
technique, works wonders (Exhibit A in why I haven't thrown out my 3rd
Ed. Joy of Cooking despite loss of structural integrity)

Mark Lipton

>Barding, a now largely forgotten
>technique, works wonders

Yes, I have found that 5 or 6 of Shakespeare's sonnets softens them up
wonderfully - nothing beats him when it comes to barding......

Actually, Doctor, I assume that you, unlike many people, know the difference
between barding and larding, but perhaps you could confimr whether the sort you
had in mind requires a needle or just wrapping the meat.

>Barding, a now largely forgotten
>technique, works wonders

Yes, I have found that 5 or 6 of Shakespeare's sonnets softens them up
wonderfully - nothing beats him when it comes to barding......

Actually, Doctor, I assume that you, unlike many people, know the difference
between barding and larding, but perhaps you could confimr whether the sort you
had in mind requires a needle or just wrapping the meat.

On 20 Aug 2004 17:35:02 GMT, ojunk (Bill Spohn) wrote:

>>Barding, a now largely forgotten
>>technique, works wonders
>
>Yes, I have found that 5 or 6 of Shakespeare's sonnets softens them up
>wonderfully - nothing beats him when it comes to barding......
>
>Actually, Doctor, I assume that you, unlike many people, know the difference
>between barding and larding, but perhaps you could confimr whether the sort you
>had in mind requires a needle or just wrapping the meat.

While I agree with Mark's respect for both Julia and Shakespeare, I
never add lard, fat, or poetry to venison or elk. Many processors
suggest adding fats to the grind for hamburger, but I've found that it
destroys the flavor of the game. And, retention of any fat that might
be found on the animal itself will most assuredly contribute a
significant "gamey" taste to the steaks or roasts.

I do, however, recall a Thanksgiving several years ago in which I was
fortunate enough to bag a wild turkey. A few minutes of trying to
pluck the bird in the field and without access to a vat of boiling
water to dip the bird in, left me frustrated and looking like a
candidate ready to be ridden out of town on a rail. A friend suggested
skinning the bird. A huge mistake. That removed all of the fat that
the bird had subcutaneously and meant that something had to be done to
baste the beast while cooking.

Wife's solution was to wrap the poor thing in cheesecloth and baste
heavily with butter while cooking. The bird looked like a poor man's
version of "The Mummy" and when brought to table was stringy, dry and
virtually inedible.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
"Phantom Flights, Bangkok Nights"
Both from Smithsonian Books
***www.thunderchief.org

On 20 Aug 2004 17:35:02 GMT, ojunk (Bill Spohn) wrote:

>>Barding, a now largely forgotten
>>technique, works wonders
>
>Yes, I have found that 5 or 6 of Shakespeare's sonnets softens them up
>wonderfully - nothing beats him when it comes to barding......
>
>Actually, Doctor, I assume that you, unlike many people, know the difference
>between barding and larding, but perhaps you could confimr whether the sort you
>had in mind requires a needle or just wrapping the meat.

While I agree with Mark's respect for both Julia and Shakespeare, I
never add lard, fat, or poetry to venison or elk. Many processors
suggest adding fats to the grind for hamburger, but I've found that it
destroys the flavor of the game. And, retention of any fat that might
be found on the animal itself will most assuredly contribute a
significant "gamey" taste to the steaks or roasts.

I do, however, recall a Thanksgiving several years ago in which I was
fortunate enough to bag a wild turkey. A few minutes of trying to
pluck the bird in the field and without access to a vat of boiling
water to dip the bird in, left me frustrated and looking like a
candidate ready to be ridden out of town on a rail. A friend suggested
skinning the bird. A huge mistake. That removed all of the fat that
the bird had subcutaneously and meant that something had to be done to
baste the beast while cooking.

Wife's solution was to wrap the poor thing in cheesecloth and baste
heavily with butter while cooking. The bird looked like a poor man's
version of "The Mummy" and when brought to table was stringy, dry and
virtually inedible.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
"Phantom Flights, Bangkok Nights"
Both from Smithsonian Books
***www.thunderchief.org