I've just discovered this grape, and I love it. Now I need recommendations for
some really good bottles to try out, and where to get them.Thanks! Andy

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

Carmenere comes mostly from Chile... (sometiemes labeled as merlot)

There are some great examples on its own, but I personally find it best when
mixed with a bit of Cabernet, and sometimes Merlot.

Top of the line is Casa Lapostolle, Clos Apalta (>US$60) which is Carmenere
with Merlot and Cabernet.
Another really good is Concha y Toro Terrunyo Carmenere... excellent.
My favorite "everyday" (not sure it's available in the states) is Carmen,
Caremener-Cabernet Sauvignon 2001.

One warning, carmenere is really tough to get right, so usually the cheap
stuff is real bad (i.e. usually unripe, green aromas). But the good stuff
is glorious.

Also, if you can get a hold of Santa Inés de Martino Reserve 2003... get
it... excellent. Really anything from Isla de Maipo (a region of Valle del
Maipo) is sure to be ripe enough.

In general, in Chile odd-year vintages (1999,2001,2003) have been better
than even ones (1998,2000,2002).

-Indirecto





"Andy Evans" > wrote in message
...
> I've just discovered this grape, and I love it. Now I need recommendations
for
> some really good bottles to try out, and where to get them.Thanks! Andy
>
> === Andy Evans ===
> Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
> Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

Carmenere comes mostly from Chile... (sometiemes labeled as merlot)

There are some great examples on its own, but I personally find it best when
mixed with a bit of Cabernet, and sometimes Merlot.

Top of the line is Casa Lapostolle, Clos Apalta (>US$60) which is Carmenere
with Merlot and Cabernet.
Another really good is Concha y Toro Terrunyo Carmenere... excellent.
My favorite "everyday" (not sure it's available in the states) is Carmen,
Caremener-Cabernet Sauvignon 2001.

One warning, carmenere is really tough to get right, so usually the cheap
stuff is real bad (i.e. usually unripe, green aromas). But the good stuff
is glorious.

Also, if you can get a hold of Santa Inés de Martino Reserve 2003... get
it... excellent. Really anything from Isla de Maipo (a region of Valle del
Maipo) is sure to be ripe enough.

In general, in Chile odd-year vintages (1999,2001,2003) have been better
than even ones (1998,2000,2002).

-Indirecto





"Andy Evans" > wrote in message
...
> I've just discovered this grape, and I love it. Now I need recommendations
for
> some really good bottles to try out, and where to get them.Thanks! Andy
>
> === Andy Evans ===
> Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
> Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

Would anybody like to choose some good ones from this list?

Anakena Carmenere Chile 2002
Anakena SPECIAL RESERVE Carmenere Chile 2002
Anakena SPECIAL RESERVE Carmenere Chile 2003
Apaltagua Carmenere Apalta 2000
Aresti Family Vineyards FAMILY COLLECTION Carmenere Rio Claro Chile 2001
Aresti Family Vineyards MONTEMAR Carmenere Curico Valley 2002
Aromo Carmenere Reservado Maule Valley 2000
Baron Philippe de Rothschild Reserva Rapel Valley Carmenere Price: $10
2002
Ca'del Bosco CARMENERO Franciacorta Lombardy 1998
Ca'del Bosco CARMENERO Franciacorta Lombardy 2000
Calina Reserve Maule Valley Carmenere Price: $8 2002
Caliterra ARBOLEDA Carmenere Colchagua Valley 2001
Caliterra Carmenere Colchagua Valley 2002
Caliterra Carmenere Colchagua Valley 2003
Carmen Cabernet Sauvignon Carmenere 2002
Casa Donoso Maule Valley Carmenere 2001
Casa Donoso Maule Valley Carmenere 2003
Casa Lapostolle CLOS ALPALTA (Carmenere/Merlot/Cab Sauv/Malbec) Colchagua
2000
Casa Lapostolle CLOS ALPALTA (Carmenere/Merlot/Cab Sauv/Malbec) Colchagua
2001
Concha y Toro Casillero del DiabloRapel Valley Carmenere Price: $10 2002
Concha y Toro Terrunyo Carmenere Puente Alta Rapel Valley - 1999 1999
Concha y Toro Terrunyo Peumo Vnyd Rapel Valley Carmenere Price: $29 2001
Echeverria Carmenere Curico Valley 2003
El Otro POTRERO GRANDE Carmenere Reserve (single vineyard) Maule Valley
2001
El Otro POTRERO GRANDE Carmenere Reserve (single vineyard) Maule Valley
2003
Errazuriz Estate Carmenere Aconcagua Valley 2002
Errazuriz Estate Carmenere Aconcagua Valley 2003
Errazuriz MAX 11 VINEYARD Carmenere (Single Vineyard-Don Maximiano Estate)
Aconcagua Valley 2001
J. Bouchon Carmenere RESERVA ESPECIAL Maule Valley 2002
La Mision Carmenere, Colchagua Year 2000 £ 6.99 Fareham winecellar 2000
La Mision del Clarillo Carmenere GRAN CUVEE Maipo Valley 2000
La Mision del Clarillo Carmenere GRAN CUVEE Maipo Valley 2001
La Playa Estate Reserve Colchagua Valley Carmenere Price: $10 2001
Santa Ema Rapel Valley Carmenere Price: $11 2001
Santa Ema Reserve Rapel Valley Carmenere Price: $17 Panel Favourite 2001
Santa Rita GRAN HACIENDA Carmenere Rapel Valley 2002
Santa Rita GRAN HACIENDA Carmenere Sangiovese Rapel Valley 2003
Santa Rita RESERVA Carmenere Rapel Valley 2001
Santa Rita RESERVA Carmenere Rapel Valley 2002
Tarapaca Maipo Valley Carmenere Price: $8 Panel Favourite 2002
Trincao Maipo Valley Reserva Carmenere 2002 $7.99 2002
Veramonte PRIMUS Casablanca Valley 2000
Villarrica Carmenere Colchagua Valley 2001
Villarrica Carmenere Colchagua Valley 2003
Vina MontGras Carmenere RESERVA Colchagua Valley - 2001 2001
Vina MontGras QUATRO RESERVA 22% Cab.Sauvignon, 30% Carmenere, 28% Merlot 20%
Malbec 2003
Vina MontGras QUATRO RESERVA Colchagua Valley 2002
Vina Ventisquero VENTISQUERO RESERVE Carmenere Maipo Valley 2002
Vina Ventisquero YALI Reserve Carmenere Maipo Valley 2002
Vinedos Sutil Carmenere Colchagua Valley 2002
Vistamar GRAND RESERVE Carmenere Maipo Valley 2002
Vistamar GRAND RESERVE Carmenere Maipo Valley 2003
Vistamar WINEMAKERS SELECTION Carmenere Central Valley Chile - 2002 2002

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

Your in UK, right? The Midlands Co-op, and, presumably, other regions, do a
"Fairtrade" own-label Carmenere which is a jolly good fiver's worth. I've had one
tainted bottle, which was exchanged without question, and the rest have been superb.
Good for the conscience, too.

Regards,

Ian

"Andy Evans" > wrote in message
...
> I've just discovered this grape, and I love it. Now I need recommendations for
> some really good bottles to try out, and where to get them.Thanks! Andy
>
> === Andy Evans ===
> Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
> Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

Hello Ian - I'm in Kensington, London. Don't know my nearest co-op. Oddbins
have very little, Tesco at least one, Safeway none I can see. I'll have to try
M&S, Sainsbury and Waitrose. There are various mail order firms in the UK, none
of which I know. I actually drink very little - a couple of glasses a day max.
So it's nice to have quality rather than quantity. A bottle lasts three days or
more. I've been looking on the internet and I really need some ratings - Wine
Spectator have some. where else can I look for guidance, and which are some
good wine traders in the UK with good stocks of this kind of stuff and decent
prices?

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

What's your budget?

-Indirecto

"Andy Evans" > wrote in message
...
> Would anybody like to choose some good ones from this list?
>
> Anakena Carmenere Chile 2002
> Anakena SPECIAL RESERVE Carmenere Chile 2002
> Anakena SPECIAL RESERVE Carmenere Chile 2003
> Apaltagua Carmenere Apalta 2000
> Aresti Family Vineyards FAMILY COLLECTION Carmenere Rio Claro Chile 2001
> Aresti Family Vineyards MONTEMAR Carmenere Curico Valley 2002
> Aromo Carmenere Reservado Maule Valley 2000
> Baron Philippe de Rothschild Reserva Rapel Valley Carmenere Price: $10
> 2002
> Ca'del Bosco CARMENERO Franciacorta Lombardy 1998
> Ca'del Bosco CARMENERO Franciacorta Lombardy 2000
> Calina Reserve Maule Valley Carmenere Price: $8 2002
> Caliterra ARBOLEDA Carmenere Colchagua Valley 2001
> Caliterra Carmenere Colchagua Valley 2002
> Caliterra Carmenere Colchagua Valley 2003
> Carmen Cabernet Sauvignon Carmenere 2002
> Casa Donoso Maule Valley Carmenere 2001
> Casa Donoso Maule Valley Carmenere 2003
> Casa Lapostolle CLOS ALPALTA (Carmenere/Merlot/Cab Sauv/Malbec) Colchagua
> 2000
> Casa Lapostolle CLOS ALPALTA (Carmenere/Merlot/Cab Sauv/Malbec) Colchagua
> 2001
> Concha y Toro Casillero del DiabloRapel Valley Carmenere Price: $10 2002
> Concha y Toro Terrunyo Carmenere Puente Alta Rapel Valley - 1999 1999
> Concha y Toro Terrunyo Peumo Vnyd Rapel Valley Carmenere Price: $29 2001
> Echeverria Carmenere Curico Valley 2003
> El Otro POTRERO GRANDE Carmenere Reserve (single vineyard) Maule Valley
> 2001
> El Otro POTRERO GRANDE Carmenere Reserve (single vineyard) Maule Valley
> 2003
> Errazuriz Estate Carmenere Aconcagua Valley 2002
> Errazuriz Estate Carmenere Aconcagua Valley 2003
> Errazuriz MAX 11 VINEYARD Carmenere (Single Vineyard-Don Maximiano Estate)
> Aconcagua Valley 2001
> J. Bouchon Carmenere RESERVA ESPECIAL Maule Valley 2002
> La Mision Carmenere, Colchagua Year 2000 £ 6.99 Fareham winecellar 2000
> La Mision del Clarillo Carmenere GRAN CUVEE Maipo Valley 2000
> La Mision del Clarillo Carmenere GRAN CUVEE Maipo Valley 2001
> La Playa Estate Reserve Colchagua Valley Carmenere Price: $10 2001
> Santa Ema Rapel Valley Carmenere Price: $11 2001
> Santa Ema Reserve Rapel Valley Carmenere Price: $17 Panel Favourite 2001
> Santa Rita GRAN HACIENDA Carmenere Rapel Valley 2002
> Santa Rita GRAN HACIENDA Carmenere Sangiovese Rapel Valley 2003
> Santa Rita RESERVA Carmenere Rapel Valley 2001
> Santa Rita RESERVA Carmenere Rapel Valley 2002
> Tarapaca Maipo Valley Carmenere Price: $8 Panel Favourite 2002
> Trincao Maipo Valley Reserva Carmenere 2002 $7.99 2002
> Veramonte PRIMUS Casablanca Valley 2000
> Villarrica Carmenere Colchagua Valley 2001
> Villarrica Carmenere Colchagua Valley 2003
> Vina MontGras Carmenere RESERVA Colchagua Valley - 2001 2001
> Vina MontGras QUATRO RESERVA 22% Cab.Sauvignon, 30% Carmenere, 28% Merlot
20%
> Malbec 2003
> Vina MontGras QUATRO RESERVA Colchagua Valley 2002
> Vina Ventisquero VENTISQUERO RESERVE Carmenere Maipo Valley 2002
> Vina Ventisquero YALI Reserve Carmenere Maipo Valley 2002
> Vinedos Sutil Carmenere Colchagua Valley 2002
> Vistamar GRAND RESERVE Carmenere Maipo Valley 2002
> Vistamar GRAND RESERVE Carmenere Maipo Valley 2003
> Vistamar WINEMAKERS SELECTION Carmenere Central Valley Chile - 2002 2002
>
> === Andy Evans ===
> Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
> Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

Hello Indirecto - you seem to know your Chilean wines!

Budget would be up to 10 GBP, roughly. I don't generally spend more than that,
and almost all the wines seem to be around that price or less.
Another question is whether a Cabernet/Carmenere is a better wine - haven't
tried. There are also some three and four way mixes. But I like the Carmenere
grape even by itself, though this doesn't seem to get top billing in wine
reviews, and one or two wine writers seem to hate the grape completely. Below
is what I've found available to me in the UK:

The ones reviewers recommend (rated 17 and over) a
Casa Lapostolle CLOS ALPALTA (Carmenere/Merlot/Cab Sauv/Malbec) Colchagua
2000
Concha y Toro Terrunyo Puente Alta Rapel Valley Carbenere 1999
Concha y Toro Terrunyo Peumo Vnyd Rapel Valley Carmenere 2001
Casa Lapostolle CLOS ALPALTA (Carmenere/Merlot/Cab Sauv/Malbec) Colchagua
2001
Casa Rivas Carmenere, Maipo Valley 2002 2002
Concha y Toro Terrunyo Peumo Vnyd Rapel Valley Carmenere 2000
Montgras Carmenere Reserva 2001
Santa Ema Reserve Rapel Valley Carmenere Price: $17 Panel Favourite 2001

Also these were rated 16.5:
Apalta Carmenere 2001
Caliterra Carmenere Colchagua Valley 2002
Caliterra Carmenere Colchagua Valley 2003
Carmen Cabernet Sauvignon Carmenere Reserva 1999
Carmen Cabernet Sauvignon Carmenere 2002
Concha y Toro Terrunyo Peumo Vnyd Cachapoal Valley Carmenere Block 27 2002
Concha y Toro Carmenere Lot 175 2002
Errazuriz Estate Carmenere Aconcagua Valley 2002
Errazuriz Estate Carmenere Aconcagua Valley 2003
Luis Felipe Edwards Carmenere Colchagua 2002
Luis Felipe Edwards 2001 Carmenere Colchagua Gran Reserva 2001
Perro Negro Carmenere 2001
San Andres Carmenere/Cabernet Sauvignon 2002
Santa Inés de Martino Reserve 2003
Tarapaca Maipo Valley Carmenere Price: $8 Panel Favourite 2002
Terranobles Gran Reserva


Full list:
Anakena Carmenere Reservado, Rapel Valley 2002
Anakena Carmenere Chile 2002
Anakena SPECIAL RESERVE Carmenere Chile 2002
Anakena SPECIAL RESERVE Carmenere Chile 2003
Apalta Carmenere 2001
APALTAGUA Carmenère Colchagua Valley Grial 2000
APALTAGUA Carmenère Colchagua Valley Grial 2000
Apaltagua Carmenere Apalta 2000
Apaltagua 2001 Envero Apalta Carmenere 76% Carmenere and 24% Cabernet 2001
Aresti Family Vineyards FAMILY COLLECTION Carmenere Rio Claro 2001
Aresti Family Vineyards MONTEMAR Carmenere Curico Valley 2002
Aromo Carmenere Reservado Maule Valley 2000
Asda Chilean Carmenere 2004 2004
Baron Philippe de Rothschild Reserva Rapel Valley Carmenere Price: $10
2002
Bodega Crucero Carmenere 2002 Colchagua Valley 2002
Ca'del Bosco CARMENERO Franciacorta Lombardy 1998
Ca'del Bosco CARMENERO Franciacorta Lombardy 2000
Calina Reserve Maule Valley Carmenere 2000
Calina Reserve Maule Valley Carmenere 2002
Caliterra ARBOLEDA Carmenere Colchagua Valley 2001
Caliterra Carmenere Colchagua Valley 2002
Caliterra Carmenere Colchagua Valley 2003
Carmen Cabernet Sauvignon Carmenere Reserva 1999
Carmen Cabernet Sauvignon Carmenere 2002
Carmen Cabernet Sauvignon Carmenere Reserve Maipa Valley 2001
Carpe Diem Carmenere 2000
Casa Donoso Maule Valley Carmenere 2001
Casa Donoso Maule Valley Carmenere 2003
Casa Silva Los Lingues
Casa Lapostolle CLOS ALPALTA (Carmenere/Merlot/Cab Sauv/Malbec) Colchagua
2000
Casa Lapostolle CLOS ALPALTA (Carmenere/Merlot/Cab Sauv/Malbec) Colchagua
2001
Casa Rivas Carmenere, Maipo Valley 2002 2002
Concha y Toro Casillero del Diablo Carmenere 2001 2001
Concha y Toro Casillero del Diablo Rapel Valley Carmenere 2001
Concha y Toro Casillero del Diablo Rapel Valley Carmenere 2002
Concha y Toro Casillero del Diablo Rapel Valley Carmenere 2003
Concha y Toro Terrunyo Carmenere Puente Alta Rapel Valley - 1999 1999
CONCHA Y TORO Carmenère Peumo Valley Terrunyo 2000
Concha y Toro Terrunyo Peumo Vnyd Rapel Valley Carmenere 2001
Concha y Toro Terrunyo Peumo Vnyd Cachapoal Valley Carmenere Block 27 2002
Concha y Toro Carmenere Lot 175 2002
Co-op Fair Trade Chilean Carmenere, Curico 2002
Don Victor, Carmenere Grand Cuvee William Fevre Chile 2001
Echeverria Carmenere Curico Valley 2003
El Otro POTRERO GRANDE Carmenere Reserve (single vineyard) Maule Valley
2001
El Otro POTRERO GRANDE Carmenere Reserve (single vineyard) Maule Valley
2003
Errazuriz Carmenere 2002
Errazuriz Estate Carmenere Aconcagua Valley 2002
Errazuriz Estate Carmenere Aconcagua Valley 2003
Errazuriz MAX 11 VINEYARD Carmenere (Single Vineyard-Don Maximiano Estate)
Aconcagua Valley 2001
Frontera Carmenere 2003
Gran Verano Carmenere 2001
Indomita Winery Brio Carmenere Rapel 2001
J. Bouchon Carmenere RESERVA ESPECIAL Maule Valley 2002
La Mision Carmenere, Colchagua 2000
La Mision del Clarillo Carmenere GRAN CUVEE Maipo Valley 2000
La Mision del Clarillo Carmenere GRAN CUVEE Maipo Valley 2001
La Palmeria Paraiso Estate Carmenere 2001
La Playa Estate Reserve Colchagua Valley Carmenere Price: $10 2001
Los Robles Carmenere 2000
Los Robles Carmenere 2003
Luis Felipe Edwards 2001 Carmenere Colchagua 2001
Luis Felipe Edwards Carmenere Colchagua 2002
Luis Felipe Edwards Carmenere Colchagua 2002
Luis Felipe Edwards 2001 Carmenere Colchagua Gran Reserva 2001
MIGUEL TORRES Carmenère-Cabernet Sauvignon Curicó Valley Santa Digna Reserva
2002
Missiones de Rengo Carmenere 2002
Montes "Limited Selection Cabernet and Carmenere 2002
Montgras Carmenere Reserva 2000
Montgras Carmenere Reserva 2001
Montgras Carmenere Reserva 2001
Novas Carmenere/Cabernet Sauvignon 2001
ODFJELL Carmenère Central Valley Armador 2001
Perro Negro Carmenere 2001
San Andres Carmenere/Cabernet Sauvignon 2002
Santa Ema Rapel Valley Carmenere Price: $11 2001
Santa Ema Reserve Rapel Valley Carmenere Price: $17 Panel Favourite 2001
Santa Inés de Martino Reserve 2003
SANTA LAURA Carmenère Colchagua Valley Laura Hartwig 2000
SANTA RITA Carmenère Rapel Valley Reserva 1999
Santa Rita GRAN HACIENDA Carmenere Rapel Valley 2002
Santa Rita GRAN HACIENDA Carmenere Sangiovese Rapel Valley 2003
Santa Rita RESERVA Carmenere Rapel Valley 2001
Santa Rita RESERVA Carmenere Rapel Valley 2002
Tarapaca Maipo Valley Carmenere Price: $8 Panel Favourite 2002
Terranobles Gran Reserva
Tesco Chilean Carmenere NV
Trincao Maipo Valley Reserva Carmenere 2002 $7.99 2002
Valdivieso Barrel Selection Carmenere 2000 2000
Veramonte PRIMUS Casablanca Valley 2000
Villarrica Carmenere Colchagua Valley 2001
Villarrica Carmenere Colchagua Valley 2003
Vina Estampa Carmenere/Merlot, Colchagua Valley 2003
Vina Leyda Carmenere Reserve Vinya Leyda 2001
Vina Leyda "Vintage Selection" Reserve 2001
Vina MontGras Carmenere RESERVA Colchagua Valley - 2001 2001
Vina MontGras QUATRO RESERVA 22% Cab.Sauvignon, 30% Carmenere, 28% Merlot 20%
Malbec 2003
Vina MontGras QUATRO RESERVA Colchagua Valley 2002
Vina Tarapaca 2001 Carmenere Maipo Valley Estate
Vina Ventisquero VENTISQUERO RESERVE Carmenere Maipo Valley 2002
Vina Ventisquero YALI Reserve Carmenere Maipo Valley 2002
Vinedos Sutil Carmenere Colchagua Valley 2002
Vistamar GRAND RESERVE Carmenere Maipo Valley 2002
Vistamar GRAND RESERVE Carmenere Maipo Valley 2003
Vistamar WINEMAKERS SELECTION Carmenere Central Valley Chile - 2002 2002

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

I haven't had this wine, but I have had some good stuff from the supplier
(Laithwaites) and the producer (Donoso), so it may be worth a try.

http://www.laithwaites.co.uk/product...&imi=&rf=false

Ian

"Andy Evans" > wrote in message
...
> Hello Ian - I'm in Kensington, London. Don't know my nearest co-op. Oddbins
> have very little, Tesco at least one, Safeway none I can see. I'll have to try
> M&S, Sainsbury and Waitrose. There are various mail order firms in the UK, none
> of which I know. I actually drink very little - a couple of glasses a day max.
> So it's nice to have quality rather than quantity. A bottle lasts three days or
> more. I've been looking on the internet and I really need some ratings - Wine
> Spectator have some. where else can I look for guidance, and which are some
> good wine traders in the UK with good stocks of this kind of stuff and decent
> prices?
>
> === Andy Evans ===
> Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
> Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

I haven't had this wine, but I have had some good stuff from the supplier
(Laithwaites) and the producer (Donoso), so it may be worth a try.

http://www.laithwaites.co.uk/product...&imi=&rf=false

Ian

"Andy Evans" > wrote in message
...
> Hello Ian - I'm in Kensington, London. Don't know my nearest co-op. Oddbins
> have very little, Tesco at least one, Safeway none I can see. I'll have to try
> M&S, Sainsbury and Waitrose. There are various mail order firms in the UK, none
> of which I know. I actually drink very little - a couple of glasses a day max.
> So it's nice to have quality rather than quantity. A bottle lasts three days or
> more. I've been looking on the internet and I really need some ratings - Wine
> Spectator have some. where else can I look for guidance, and which are some
> good wine traders in the UK with good stocks of this kind of stuff and decent
> prices?
>
> === Andy Evans ===
> Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
> Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

Andy,

I live in Chile. I guess that helps me know our wines. ;-)

The Clos Apalta, I would be surprised if you find it under $40... which, by
the way, you need to let it cellar for a little while or you'll be
dissapointed.

The Concha y Toro Terrunyo and Santa Ema are real nice. Terrunyo is
considered here in Chile to be the best pure Carmenere in the market. The
Santa Ema I haven't tried, but local wine guides also rate it up there. Let
me know what you think if you try it.

About mixes being "better", it's really up to the consumer. Sometimes
carmenere needs a bit of cab structure, in my opinion.

Chileans are still learning carmenere... it's real tough to get it right, so
the quality can be quite uneven, so it's no surprise that it doesn't get top
billing. I can remember two years ago when most carmenere was green and
unexiting. Also, it has been a bit overshadowed by the new Syrahs. But
well-done carmenere can be glorious to drink.

Hint: Of the regiones in Chile, in general, Colchagua and Rapel (i.e. Peumo)
make the best carmenere. Maipo makes good stuff too, but usually they focus
on cabernet. (Santa Inés de Martino being a notable exception). Avoid
other regions such as Maule, which is usually to cold and rainy to let it
reach full maturity.

Also, some wines, like Casa Lapostolle Cuvée Alexandre 2001 Merlot, is in
fact, mostly carmenere, just like Cono Sur Reserver Merlot 2001.

My last carmenere was the Santa Inés de Martino Reserve 2003, which is
mentioned in your list... and it's fantastic.

-Indirecto





"Andy Evans" > wrote in message
...
> Hello Indirecto - you seem to know your Chilean wines!
>
> Budget would be up to 10 GBP, roughly. I don't generally spend more than
that,
> and almost all the wines seem to be around that price or less.
> Another question is whether a Cabernet/Carmenere is a better wine -
haven't
> tried. There are also some three and four way mixes. But I like the
Carmenere
> grape even by itself, though this doesn't seem to get top billing in wine
> reviews, and one or two wine writers seem to hate the grape completely.
Below
> is what I've found available to me in the UK:
>
> The ones reviewers recommend (rated 17 and over) a
> Casa Lapostolle CLOS ALPALTA (Carmenere/Merlot/Cab Sauv/Malbec) Colchagua
> 2000
> Concha y Toro Terrunyo Puente Alta Rapel Valley Carbenere 1999
> Concha y Toro Terrunyo Peumo Vnyd Rapel Valley Carmenere 2001
> Casa Lapostolle CLOS ALPALTA (Carmenere/Merlot/Cab Sauv/Malbec) Colchagua
> 2001
> Casa Rivas Carmenere, Maipo Valley 2002 2002
> Concha y Toro Terrunyo Peumo Vnyd Rapel Valley Carmenere 2000
> Montgras Carmenere Reserva 2001
> Santa Ema Reserve Rapel Valley Carmenere Price: $17 Panel Favourite 2001
>
> Also these were rated 16.5:
> Apalta Carmenere 2001
> Caliterra Carmenere Colchagua Valley 2002
> Caliterra Carmenere Colchagua Valley 2003
> Carmen Cabernet Sauvignon Carmenere Reserva 1999
> Carmen Cabernet Sauvignon Carmenere 2002
> Concha y Toro Terrunyo Peumo Vnyd Cachapoal Valley Carmenere Block 27 2002
> Concha y Toro Carmenere Lot 175 2002
> Errazuriz Estate Carmenere Aconcagua Valley 2002
> Errazuriz Estate Carmenere Aconcagua Valley 2003
> Luis Felipe Edwards Carmenere Colchagua 2002
> Luis Felipe Edwards 2001 Carmenere Colchagua Gran Reserva 2001
> Perro Negro Carmenere 2001
> San Andres Carmenere/Cabernet Sauvignon 2002
> Santa Inés de Martino Reserve 2003
> Tarapaca Maipo Valley Carmenere Price: $8 Panel Favourite 2002
> Terranobles Gran Reserva
>
>
> Full list:
> Anakena Carmenere Reservado, Rapel Valley 2002
> Anakena Carmenere Chile 2002
> Anakena SPECIAL RESERVE Carmenere Chile 2002
> Anakena SPECIAL RESERVE Carmenere Chile 2003
> Apalta Carmenere 2001
> APALTAGUA Carmenère Colchagua Valley Grial 2000
> APALTAGUA Carmenère Colchagua Valley Grial 2000
> Apaltagua Carmenere Apalta 2000
> Apaltagua 2001 Envero Apalta Carmenere 76% Carmenere and 24% Cabernet 2001
> Aresti Family Vineyards FAMILY COLLECTION Carmenere Rio Claro 2001
> Aresti Family Vineyards MONTEMAR Carmenere Curico Valley 2002
> Aromo Carmenere Reservado Maule Valley 2000
> Asda Chilean Carmenere 2004 2004
> Baron Philippe de Rothschild Reserva Rapel Valley Carmenere Price: $10
> 2002
> Bodega Crucero Carmenere 2002 Colchagua Valley 2002
> Ca'del Bosco CARMENERO Franciacorta Lombardy 1998
> Ca'del Bosco CARMENERO Franciacorta Lombardy 2000
> Calina Reserve Maule Valley Carmenere 2000
> Calina Reserve Maule Valley Carmenere 2002
> Caliterra ARBOLEDA Carmenere Colchagua Valley 2001
> Caliterra Carmenere Colchagua Valley 2002
> Caliterra Carmenere Colchagua Valley 2003
> Carmen Cabernet Sauvignon Carmenere Reserva 1999
> Carmen Cabernet Sauvignon Carmenere 2002
> Carmen Cabernet Sauvignon Carmenere Reserve Maipa Valley 2001
> Carpe Diem Carmenere 2000
> Casa Donoso Maule Valley Carmenere 2001
> Casa Donoso Maule Valley Carmenere 2003
> Casa Silva Los Lingues
> Casa Lapostolle CLOS ALPALTA (Carmenere/Merlot/Cab Sauv/Malbec) Colchagua
> 2000
> Casa Lapostolle CLOS ALPALTA (Carmenere/Merlot/Cab Sauv/Malbec) Colchagua
> 2001
> Casa Rivas Carmenere, Maipo Valley 2002 2002
> Concha y Toro Casillero del Diablo Carmenere 2001 2001
> Concha y Toro Casillero del Diablo Rapel Valley Carmenere 2001
> Concha y Toro Casillero del Diablo Rapel Valley Carmenere 2002
> Concha y Toro Casillero del Diablo Rapel Valley Carmenere 2003
> Concha y Toro Terrunyo Carmenere Puente Alta Rapel Valley - 1999 1999
> CONCHA Y TORO Carmenère Peumo Valley Terrunyo 2000
> Concha y Toro Terrunyo Peumo Vnyd Rapel Valley Carmenere 2001
> Concha y Toro Terrunyo Peumo Vnyd Cachapoal Valley Carmenere Block 27 2002
> Concha y Toro Carmenere Lot 175 2002
> Co-op Fair Trade Chilean Carmenere, Curico 2002
> Don Victor, Carmenere Grand Cuvee William Fevre Chile 2001
> Echeverria Carmenere Curico Valley 2003
> El Otro POTRERO GRANDE Carmenere Reserve (single vineyard) Maule Valley
> 2001
> El Otro POTRERO GRANDE Carmenere Reserve (single vineyard) Maule Valley
> 2003
> Errazuriz Carmenere 2002
> Errazuriz Estate Carmenere Aconcagua Valley 2002
> Errazuriz Estate Carmenere Aconcagua Valley 2003
> Errazuriz MAX 11 VINEYARD Carmenere (Single Vineyard-Don Maximiano Estate)
> Aconcagua Valley 2001
> Frontera Carmenere 2003
> Gran Verano Carmenere 2001
> Indomita Winery Brio Carmenere Rapel 2001
> J. Bouchon Carmenere RESERVA ESPECIAL Maule Valley 2002
> La Mision Carmenere, Colchagua 2000
> La Mision del Clarillo Carmenere GRAN CUVEE Maipo Valley 2000
> La Mision del Clarillo Carmenere GRAN CUVEE Maipo Valley 2001
> La Palmeria Paraiso Estate Carmenere 2001
> La Playa Estate Reserve Colchagua Valley Carmenere Price: $10 2001
> Los Robles Carmenere 2000
> Los Robles Carmenere 2003
> Luis Felipe Edwards 2001 Carmenere Colchagua 2001
> Luis Felipe Edwards Carmenere Colchagua 2002
> Luis Felipe Edwards Carmenere Colchagua 2002
> Luis Felipe Edwards 2001 Carmenere Colchagua Gran Reserva 2001
> MIGUEL TORRES Carmenère-Cabernet Sauvignon Curicó Valley Santa Digna
Reserva
> 2002
> Missiones de Rengo Carmenere 2002
> Montes 'Limited Selection' Cabernet and Carmenere 2002
> Montgras Carmenere Reserva 2000
> Montgras Carmenere Reserva 2001
> Montgras Carmenere Reserva 2001
> Novas Carmenere/Cabernet Sauvignon 2001
> ODFJELL Carmenère Central Valley Armador 2001
> Perro Negro Carmenere 2001
> San Andres Carmenere/Cabernet Sauvignon 2002
> Santa Ema Rapel Valley Carmenere Price: $11 2001
> Santa Ema Reserve Rapel Valley Carmenere Price: $17 Panel Favourite 2001
> Santa Inés de Martino Reserve 2003
> SANTA LAURA Carmenère Colchagua Valley Laura Hartwig 2000
> SANTA RITA Carmenère Rapel Valley Reserva 1999
> Santa Rita GRAN HACIENDA Carmenere Rapel Valley 2002
> Santa Rita GRAN HACIENDA Carmenere Sangiovese Rapel Valley 2003
> Santa Rita RESERVA Carmenere Rapel Valley 2001
> Santa Rita RESERVA Carmenere Rapel Valley 2002
> Tarapaca Maipo Valley Carmenere Price: $8 Panel Favourite 2002
> Terranobles Gran Reserva
> Tesco Chilean Carmenere NV
> Trincao Maipo Valley Reserva Carmenere 2002 $7.99 2002
> Valdivieso Barrel Selection Carmenere 2000 2000
> Veramonte PRIMUS Casablanca Valley 2000
> Villarrica Carmenere Colchagua Valley 2001
> Villarrica Carmenere Colchagua Valley 2003
> Vina Estampa Carmenere/Merlot, Colchagua Valley 2003
> Vina Leyda Carmenere Reserve Vinya Leyda 2001
> Vina Leyda "Vintage Selection" Reserve 2001
> Vina MontGras Carmenere RESERVA Colchagua Valley - 2001 2001
> Vina MontGras QUATRO RESERVA 22% Cab.Sauvignon, 30% Carmenere, 28% Merlot
20%
> Malbec 2003
> Vina MontGras QUATRO RESERVA Colchagua Valley 2002
> Vina Tarapaca 2001 Carmenere Maipo Valley Estate
> Vina Ventisquero VENTISQUERO RESERVE Carmenere Maipo Valley 2002
> Vina Ventisquero YALI Reserve Carmenere Maipo Valley 2002
> Vinedos Sutil Carmenere Colchagua Valley 2002
> Vistamar GRAND RESERVE Carmenere Maipo Valley 2002
> Vistamar GRAND RESERVE Carmenere Maipo Valley 2003
> Vistamar WINEMAKERS SELECTION Carmenere Central Valley Chile - 2002 2002
>
> === Andy Evans ===
> Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
> Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

Does this wine have to be drunk straight out of the bottle? If it's left to
"chambrer" it seems to get worse. Just curious. Drinking some Luis Felipe
Edwards Carmenere Colchagua 2002, and I seem to think it was better right out
of the bottle. It's not a great wine - frustrating to get a carmenere that is
not quite totally convincing - it seems to have so much potential. Andy


=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

Does this wine have to be drunk straight out of the bottle? If it's left to
"chambrer" it seems to get worse. Just curious. Drinking some Luis Felipe
Edwards Carmenere Colchagua 2002, and I seem to think it was better right out
of the bottle. It's not a great wine - frustrating to get a carmenere that is
not quite totally convincing - it seems to have so much potential. Andy


=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

If you mean decanting, no it isn't necessary. But good carmenere doesn't
"fade" like the one you've experienced.

Yeah, there's a lot of bad carmenere out there. Seems you got one of those.

Avoid uneven years (i.e. 2002). They were rainy, usualy picked before it's
fully ripe.

But don't give up. A good carmenere will surely reward your patience.

-Indirecto



"Andy Evans" > wrote in message
...
> Does this wine have to be drunk straight out of the bottle? If it's left
to
> "chambrer" it seems to get worse. Just curious. Drinking some Luis Felipe
> Edwards Carmenere Colchagua 2002, and I seem to think it was better right
out
> of the bottle. It's not a great wine - frustrating to get a carmenere that
is
> not quite totally convincing - it seems to have so much potential. Andy
>
>
> === Andy Evans ===
> Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
> Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

If you mean decanting, no it isn't necessary. But good carmenere doesn't
"fade" like the one you've experienced.

Yeah, there's a lot of bad carmenere out there. Seems you got one of those.

Avoid uneven years (i.e. 2002). They were rainy, usualy picked before it's
fully ripe.

But don't give up. A good carmenere will surely reward your patience.

-Indirecto



"Andy Evans" > wrote in message
...
> Does this wine have to be drunk straight out of the bottle? If it's left
to
> "chambrer" it seems to get worse. Just curious. Drinking some Luis Felipe
> Edwards Carmenere Colchagua 2002, and I seem to think it was better right
out
> of the bottle. It's not a great wine - frustrating to get a carmenere that
is
> not quite totally convincing - it seems to have so much potential. Andy
>
>
> === Andy Evans ===
> Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
> Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

If you mean decanting, no it isn't necessary. But good carmenere doesn't
"fade" like the one you've experienced.

Yeah, there's a lot of bad carmenere out there. Seems you got one of those.

Avoid uneven years (i.e. 2002). They were rainy, usualy picked before it's
fully ripe.

But don't give up. A good carmenere will surely reward your patience.

-Indirecto



"Andy Evans" > wrote in message
...
> Does this wine have to be drunk straight out of the bottle? If it's left
to
> "chambrer" it seems to get worse. Just curious. Drinking some Luis Felipe
> Edwards Carmenere Colchagua 2002, and I seem to think it was better right
out
> of the bottle. It's not a great wine - frustrating to get a carmenere that
is
> not quite totally convincing - it seems to have so much potential. Andy
>
>
> === Andy Evans ===
> Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
> Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

Waitrose also has the fair trade Carmenere (it is from Traidcraft). And
I agree with the recommendation.

Sheila Page

In article >, Andy Evans
> writes
>Hello Ian - I'm in Kensington, London. Don't know my nearest co-op. Oddbins
>have very little, Tesco at least one, Safeway none I can see. I'll have to try
>M&S, Sainsbury and Waitrose. There are various mail order firms in the UK, none
>of which I know. I actually drink very little - a couple of glasses a day max.
>So it's nice to have quality rather than quantity. A bottle lasts three days or
>more. I've been looking on the internet and I really need some ratings - Wine
>Spectator have some. where else can I look for guidance, and which are some
>good wine traders in the UK with good stocks of this kind of stuff and decent
>prices?
>
>=== Andy Evans ===
>Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
>Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

--
---
Sheila Page

I bet that in blind tastings you (and I and everybody else) can't tell
Chilean Carmenere from Merlot.

Somehow I am getting the feeling that Carmenere just happens to fit
neatly into the Chilean wine industry's marketing plans.

Just like Argentina is associated with Malbec, Australia with Syrah,
New Zealand with Sauvignon Blanc, California with Zinfandel and
Uruguay with Tannat, it looks like Chile has designated Carmenere as
its signature grape--and then proceeded to market the hell out of it.



On 14 Oct 2004 22:24:33 GMT, ohawker (Andy
Evans) wrote:

>I've just discovered this grape, and I love it. Now I need recommendations for
>some really good bottles to try out, and where to get them.Thanks! Andy
>
>=== Andy Evans ===
>Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
>Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

--
=================================================
Do you like wine? Do you live in South Florida?
Visit the MIAMI WINE TASTERS group at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/miamiWINE
=================================================

I bet that in blind tastings you (and I and everybody else) can't tell
Chilean Carmenere from Merlot.

Somehow I am getting the feeling that Carmenere just happens to fit
neatly into the Chilean wine industry's marketing plans.

Just like Argentina is associated with Malbec, Australia with Syrah,
New Zealand with Sauvignon Blanc, California with Zinfandel and
Uruguay with Tannat, it looks like Chile has designated Carmenere as
its signature grape--and then proceeded to market the hell out of it.



On 14 Oct 2004 22:24:33 GMT, ohawker (Andy
Evans) wrote:

>I've just discovered this grape, and I love it. Now I need recommendations for
>some really good bottles to try out, and where to get them.Thanks! Andy
>
>=== Andy Evans ===
>Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
>Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

--
=================================================
Do you like wine? Do you live in South Florida?
Visit the MIAMI WINE TASTERS group at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/miamiWINE
=================================================

"Leo Bueno" > wrote in message
...
>
> I bet that in blind tastings you (and I and everybody else) can't tell
> Chilean Carmenere from Merlot.

I bet I can.

Of course, I sometimes confuse some cabernet with merlot, so 100% accuracy
may not be expected. But try some chilean "merlot" and you can definitely
tell there's much carmenere in them.
They're really different grapes and turn out different wine.

> Somehow I am getting the feeling that Carmenere just happens to fit
> neatly into the Chilean wine industry's marketing plans.

Neatly? It was almost a disaster. Imagine someone telling you the merlot
you've been selling for years is not really merlot. Doh!!!!

And let's not forget that Chile (still) doesn't have any "wine industry
marketing plan" to speak of... just getting them to agree to put the world
"Chile" in the label has been like pulling teeth.

Just think that Chile's best wine made (mostly) of carmenere doesn't even
state it on the label. (Clos Apalta). Marketing? Hmmm....


> Just like Argentina is associated with Malbec, Australia with Syrah,
> New Zealand with Sauvignon Blanc, California with Zinfandel and
> Uruguay with Tannat, it looks like Chile has designated Carmenere as
> its signature grape--and then proceeded to market the hell out of it.
>

Chile has "designated" nothing. They're still struggling to find an image
of their own. I bet, for example, chilean syrah does better around the
world than carmenere. And don't forget the new sauvignon blancs. And, of
course, Chile's top grape is still Cabernet Sauvignon.

Chilean wineries WISH they knew carmenere well enough to make it it's
signature grape. But the reality may be far from it.

But you really can't blame them for trying, could you.

And by the way, a good carmenere is really awesome.

-Indirecto

Dear Andy - I just returned from a trip to Lombardy with my husband and
brought back a case of Carmenero Ca' Del Bosco 2000. It was
recommended to us as a good, locally produced wine from a relatively
small vineyard by the sommelier of a wonderful restaurant called
Ambasciata in the small town of Quistello located just outside of
Mantova. We decided to try it and fell in love. We were flying back
home the next day and did not have time to purchase any on our own, so
the restaurant offered to sell us 6 bottles at 30 Euros per bottle (a
third of the price listed on the wine list). I haven't been able to
find much information on this wine since I've been back home in New
York, but I am happy I brought some back as a souvenir. If you like
the carmenere grape, you should definitely try this producer.

Best of luck,

Lisa


--
lisacantor
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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If you're interested in Chilean carmenere recomendations... let me know

-Indirecto



"lisacantor" > wrote in message
...
>
> Dear Andy - I just returned from a trip to Lombardy with my husband and
> brought back a case of Carmenero Ca' Del Bosco 2000. It was
> recommended to us as a good, locally produced wine from a relatively
> small vineyard by the sommelier of a wonderful restaurant called
> Ambasciata in the small town of Quistello located just outside of
> Mantova. We decided to try it and fell in love. We were flying back
> home the next day and did not have time to purchase any on our own, so
> the restaurant offered to sell us 6 bottles at 30 Euros per bottle (a
> third of the price listed on the wine list). I haven't been able to
> find much information on this wine since I've been back home in New
> York, but I am happy I brought some back as a souvenir. If you like
> the carmenere grape, you should definitely try this producer.
>
> Best of luck,
>
> Lisa
>
>
> --
> lisacantor
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> lisacantor's Profile:
> http://www.cookingboard.com/member.p...nfo&userid=208
> View this thread:
> http://www.cookingboard.com/showthre...threadid=24156
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
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> Newsgroups
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> =----

If you're interested in Chilean carmenere recomendations... let me know

-Indirecto



"lisacantor" > wrote in message
...
>
> Dear Andy - I just returned from a trip to Lombardy with my husband and
> brought back a case of Carmenero Ca' Del Bosco 2000. It was
> recommended to us as a good, locally produced wine from a relatively
> small vineyard by the sommelier of a wonderful restaurant called
> Ambasciata in the small town of Quistello located just outside of
> Mantova. We decided to try it and fell in love. We were flying back
> home the next day and did not have time to purchase any on our own, so
> the restaurant offered to sell us 6 bottles at 30 Euros per bottle (a
> third of the price listed on the wine list). I haven't been able to
> find much information on this wine since I've been back home in New
> York, but I am happy I brought some back as a souvenir. If you like
> the carmenere grape, you should definitely try this producer.
>
> Best of luck,
>
> Lisa
>
>
> --
> lisacantor
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> lisacantor's Profile:
> http://www.cookingboard.com/member.p...nfo&userid=208
> View this thread:
> http://www.cookingboard.com/showthre...threadid=24156
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
> News==----
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> Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
> =----

Mike Tommasi > wrote:

> as in theory no wine appellation in ITaly can use CArmenere,

Not 100% right. There are a few obscure Veneto DOCs (Bagnoli [di
Sopra], [Monte] Lessini) that allow Carmenere in the make-up:

<http://www.lavinium.com/denom/venetden.htm>

and search for "carmenere".

M.

Mike Tommasi > wrote:

> as in theory no wine appellation in ITaly can use CArmenere,

Not 100% right. There are a few obscure Veneto DOCs (Bagnoli [di
Sopra], [Monte] Lessini) that allow Carmenere in the make-up:

<http://www.lavinium.com/denom/venetden.htm>

and search for "carmenere".

M.