I can't figure this out.

If a Bordeaux blend is made up of several grapes, and terroir is so
important, does a winery that blends several grapes also own several
terroirs (plots of land) where he grows the different grapes that he uses in
his wine that he labels that is from his winery?



Thanks a lot for any who can understand my question as phrased, and answer.

Dee Dee

"Dee Dovey" > skrev i melding
...
>I can't figure this out.
>
> If a Bordeaux blend is made up of several grapes, and terroir is so
> important, does a winery that blends several grapes also own several
> terroirs (plots of land) where he grows the different grapes that he uses
> in his wine that he labels that is from his winery?
>
Good question. The chateaux of Bordeaux generally comprise a contiguous
plot of land which is planted with a variety of grapes. The proportion
within a given plot depends on the aptitude of the land and the decided
profile for the winery - traditions that often are centuries old but may be
modified over time. Furthermore, the grapes actually used in the official
blend depend on the vintage - the blends in cold years are often different
from these in warm ones.

The cheaper Bordeaux wines may well be sourced from different plots and thus
do not display much terroir other than that of Bordeaux itself in general.

A simplified response, this, I think :-)
Anders

"Anders Tørneskog" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dee Dovey" > skrev i melding
> ...
>>I can't figure this out.
>>
>> If a Bordeaux blend is made up of several grapes, and terroir is so
>> important, does a winery that blends several grapes also own several
>> terroirs (plots of land) where he grows the different grapes that he uses
>> in his wine that he labels that is from his winery?
>>
> Good question. The chateaux of Bordeaux generally comprise a contiguous
> plot of land which is planted with a variety of grapes. The proportion
> within a given plot depends on the aptitude of the land and the decided
> profile for the winery - traditions that often are centuries old but may
> be modified over time. Furthermore, the grapes actually used in the
> official blend depend on the vintage - the blends in cold years are often
> different from these in warm ones.
>
> The cheaper Bordeaux wines may well be sourced from different plots and
> thus do not display much terroir other than that of Bordeaux itself in
> general.
>
> A simplified response, this, I think :-)
> Anders
>
>

Thank you, Anders.
My appreciation,
Dee Dee

Mike Tommasi > wrote:

> It just happens that in the southern areas you need more than
> one grape variety to obtain a balanced well rounded wine.

That's why they have three grapes in Champagne, but only one each
in Burgundy down south ... ;-)

scnr,

M.

Mike Tommasi > wrote:

> Yes, for bubbly Champagne is fairly southern, its ideal terroir
> being England one assumes that over there they would not blend
> :-)))

Of course, why should you blend Wrotham Pinot, that superb grape
for bubblies?

:-)

M.

On Dec 15, 9:16�am, Michael Pronay > wrote:
> Mike Tommasi > wrote:
> > Yes, for bubbly Champagne is fairly southern, its ideal terroir
> > being England one assumes that over there they would not blend
> > :-)))
>
> Of course, why should you blend Wrotham Pinot, that superb grape
> for bubblies?
>
> :-)
>
> M.

Dr Dick Peterson is making a terrific bubbly in the Napa Valley from
Wrotham Pinot.

Mike Tommasi wrote:
> Michael Pronay wrote:
>> Mike Tommasi > wrote:
>>> It just happens that in the southern areas you need more than one
>>> grape variety to obtain a balanced well rounded wine.
>>
>> That's why they have three grapes in Champagne, but only one each
>> in Burgundy down south ... ;-)
>
> Yes, for bubbly Champagne is fairly southern, its ideal terroir being
> England one assumes that over there they would not blend :-)))

Smiley noted, but I feel duty-bound to point out that of course we blend
grapes for our sparkling wine. However, it is nice to see that our
terroir (actually the same seam of rock that goes through Champagne) is
getting recognition.

More seriously, I am not sure I understnd your point about southern
areas needing to blend varieties. Were you thinking specifically of
Bordeaux? What examples do you have in mind?

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

Steve Slatcher wrote:
> Mike Tommasi wrote:

>
> More seriously, I am not sure I understnd your point about southern
> areas needing to blend varieties. Were you thinking specifically of
> Bordeaux? What examples do you have in mind?
>

Well, the S Rhone Valley is replete with blends and most Italian reds
were historically blends (I think). The thinking is that, by blending,
one can make up for the deificiencies of one variety with another; why
that should be more prevalent in the southern areas has to do with the
reduced acidity found in hotter growing regions (maybe).

Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

> However, it is nice to see that our terroir (actually the same seam of
> rock that goes through Champagne) is getting recognition.

Could you please expand on that? Provide support? Define seam?

JB

Anders Tørneskog wrote:
> "Dee Dovey" > skrev i melding
> ...
>> I can't figure this out.
>>
>> If a Bordeaux blend is made up of several grapes, and terroir is so
>> important, does a winery that blends several grapes also own several
>> terroirs (plots of land) where he grows the different grapes that he uses
>> in his wine that he labels that is from his winery?
>>
> Good question. The chateaux of Bordeaux generally comprise a contiguous
> plot of land which is planted with a variety of grapes. The proportion
> within a given plot depends on the aptitude of the land and the decided
> profile for the winery - traditions that often are centuries old but may be
> modified over time. Furthermore, the grapes actually used in the official
> blend depend on the vintage - the blends in cold years are often different
> from these in warm ones.
>
> The cheaper Bordeaux wines may well be sourced from different plots and thus
> do not display much terroir other than that of Bordeaux itself in general.
>
> A simplified response, this, I think :-)

Simple, but correct as far as I know for Bordeaux

In other places though, occasionally you get "field blends". Here,
different varieties are grown in the same vineyard. If they are old
vineyards, the varieties may be very well mixed, and the owner may not
even know or care what the viarieties are. In more recently planted
vineyards for field blends, each row will contain only one variety, but
adjacent rows may well be different.

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

In message >
Steve Slatcher > wrote:

> Anders Tørneskog wrote:
>> "Dee Dovey" > skrev i melding
>> ...
>>> I can't figure this out.
>>>
>>> If a Bordeaux blend is made up of several grapes, and terroir is so
>>> important, does a winery that blends several grapes also own several
>>> terroirs (plots of land) where he grows the different grapes that he uses
>>> in his wine that he labels that is from his winery?
>>>
>> Good question. The chateaux of Bordeaux generally comprise a contiguous
>> plot of land which is planted with a variety of grapes. The proportion
>> within a given plot depends on the aptitude of the land and the decided
>> profile for the winery - traditions that often are centuries old but may be
>> modified over time. Furthermore, the grapes actually used in the official
>> blend depend on the vintage - the blends in cold years are often different
>> from these in warm ones.
>>
>> The cheaper Bordeaux wines may well be sourced from different plots and thus
>> do not display much terroir other than that of Bordeaux itself in general.
>>
>> A simplified response, this, I think :-)

> Simple, but correct as far as I know for Bordeaux

> In other places though, occasionally you get "field blends". Here,
> different varieties are grown in the same vineyard. If they are old
> vineyards, the varieties may be very well mixed, and the owner may not
> even know or care what the viarieties are. In more recently planted
> vineyards for field blends, each row will contain only one variety, but
> adjacent rows may well be different.


As Anders hinted the situation is in fact really quite complicated and
varied, certainly in Saint-Emilion. Some of the modern style wines
like Valandraud and Le Dôme are made from grapes grown on difgerent
parcels in the Jurisdiction which may have very different soil types,
heights above sea level, exposure and other aspects of difference
which go to make up ”terroir•. Equally many of the traditional great
growths, although having contiguous parcles of diffferent grape
vartieties, have different soil types across their vineyard and plant
accordingly. This is particularly true of thos on the Côte which may
have part of the plateau, th Côte itself and then the foot of the Cote
all producing very different wine for blending even from grapes of the
same cepage. It is also true of many Chateaux on the plateau that
differences bnetween parcels produce very different wines. I had a
most interesting tasting in June of 2008 Merlot barrel samples at
Grand Pontet where the difference in height and vine age of the plots
was very illustrative of the complexities of all this. Some winemakers
will actually make two wines from one area in order that the different
soil types may be used at their best — at the east end of the Cotes,
for example the Lavaus at Ch. Bernateau make both an eponymous wine
grown on argilo-calcerous soil and Ch.Peyronneau on sand and gravels.
Both have been Grand Crus in recent vintages but they show the
differences of terroir although the cepage is broadly similar.

Tim Hartley

"Steve Slatcher" > wrote in message
...
> Anders Tørneskog wrote:
>> "Dee Dovey" > skrev i melding
>> ...
>>> I can't figure this out.
>>>
>>> If a Bordeaux blend is made up of several grapes, and terroir is so
>>> important, does a winery that blends several grapes also own several
>>> terroirs (plots of land) where he grows the different grapes that he
>>> uses in his wine that he labels that is from his winery?
>>>
>> Good question. The chateaux of Bordeaux generally comprise a contiguous
>> plot of land which is planted with a variety of grapes. The proportion
>> within a given plot depends on the aptitude of the land and the decided
>> profile for the winery - traditions that often are centuries old but may
>> be modified over time. Furthermore, the grapes actually used in the
>> official blend depend on the vintage - the blends in cold years are often
>> different from these in warm ones.
>>
>> The cheaper Bordeaux wines may well be sourced from different plots and
>> thus do not display much terroir other than that of Bordeaux itself in
>> general.
>>
>> A simplified response, this, I think :-)
>
> Simple, but correct as far as I know for Bordeaux
>
> In other places though, occasionally you get "field blends". Here,
> different varieties are grown in the same vineyard. If they are old
> vineyards, the varieties may be very well mixed, and the owner may not
> even know or care what the viarieties are. In more recently planted
> vineyards for field blends, each row will contain only one variety, but
> adjacent rows may well be different.
>
> --
> Steve Slatcher


When you say, "Here, different varieties ......"
Where is "here"?
Thanks,
Dee Dee

Dee Dovey wrote:
> "Steve Slatcher" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Anders Tørneskog wrote:
>>> "Dee Dovey" > skrev i melding
>>> ...
>>>> I can't figure this out.
>>>>
>>>> If a Bordeaux blend is made up of several grapes, and terroir is so
>>>> important, does a winery that blends several grapes also own several
>>>> terroirs (plots of land) where he grows the different grapes that he
>>>> uses in his wine that he labels that is from his winery?
>>>>
>>> Good question. The chateaux of Bordeaux generally comprise a contiguous
>>> plot of land which is planted with a variety of grapes. The proportion
>>> within a given plot depends on the aptitude of the land and the decided
>>> profile for the winery - traditions that often are centuries old but may
>>> be modified over time. Furthermore, the grapes actually used in the
>>> official blend depend on the vintage - the blends in cold years are often
>>> different from these in warm ones.
>>>
>>> The cheaper Bordeaux wines may well be sourced from different plots and
>>> thus do not display much terroir other than that of Bordeaux itself in
>>> general.
>>>
>>> A simplified response, this, I think :-)
>> Simple, but correct as far as I know for Bordeaux
>>
>> In other places though, occasionally you get "field blends". Here,
>> different varieties are grown in the same vineyard. If they are old
>> vineyards, the varieties may be very well mixed, and the owner may not
>> even know or care what the viarieties are. In more recently planted
>> vineyards for field blends, each row will contain only one variety, but
>> adjacent rows may well be different.
>>
>> --
>> Steve Slatcher
>
>
> When you say, "Here, different varieties ......"
> Where is "here"?

It is not common these days.

I recently heard that they still exist in Portugal - for the many
varieties that go into Port for example, and table wines now.

In Alscace, Marcel Deiss is well-known for keeping the idea alive as a
positive thing.

I haven't read it myself yet, but this article may be of interest:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...IGNPKKE691.DTL

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

Steve Slatcher > wrote:

[Field blends]

> It is not common these days.
>
> I recently heard that they still exist in Portugal - for the
> many varieties that go into Port for example, and table wines
> now.

There has always been "Gemischter Satz" (= field blend) in Vienna,
which very recently has grown extremely popular and has even been
recognized as a "Presidio" product by Slow Food. (Not that I'd
know what a "presidio product" might be, but everybody seems to
be quite proud about it.)

M.

On Dec 12, 9:14�am, "Dee Dovey" > wrote:
> I can't figure this out.
>
> If a Bordeaux blend is made up of several grapes, and terroir is so
> important, does a winery that blends several grapes also own several
> terroirs (plots of land) where he grows the different grapes that he uses in
> his wine that he labels that is from his winery?
>
> Thanks a lot for any who can understand my question as phrased, and answer.

"Bi!!" > wrote in message
...
On Dec 12, 9:14?am, "Dee Dovey" > wrote:
> I can't figure this out.
>
> If a Bordeaux blend is made up of several grapes, and terroir is so
> important, does a winery that blends several grapes also own several
> terroirs (plots of land) where he grows the different grapes that he uses
> in
> his wine that he labels that is from his winery?
>
> Thanks a lot for any who can understand my question as phrased, and
> answer.
>
> Dee Dee

I think it's important to remember that "terroir" is more than soil.
It's the entire enviorment of the vineyard including the aspect of the
vines in relation to the sun, the drainage and humidity, the relative
temperatures of the air and the soil throughout the months, weeks,
days, hours, etc.


Thanks, Bill. Yes, I do realize that.
I appreciate your posting.
Dee Dee