I have a Breezaire 1060 in my Vinotemp. It is about 15 years old. I had it
when we lived in Florida. It was in another room then so I never heard it
start. When we moved here to Las Vegas 7 years ago it was in the living
room. It started very loudly. I just thought that was the way it was. We
moved it to the kitchen 3 years ago and it was the same. Starting 2 weeks
ago it started making noise when running. This happened many years ago and
it was caused by condensation freezing on the fan blades. Dumping out the
water solved the problem. I noticed that the temperature of the Vinotemp
was now 50 degrees instead of the 55 I had set it to. I increased the
thermostat and it is back to 55. Now when it starts it is downright quiet.
The cooling unit now works better and it is quieter. Should I be worried?

Fred.

On Apr 5, 1:58*am, Fred > wrote:
> I have a Breezaire 1060 in my Vinotemp. It is about 15 years old. I had it
> when we lived in Florida. It was in another room then so I never heard it
> start. When we moved here to Las Vegas 7 years ago it was in the living
> room. It started very loudly. I just thought that was the way it was. We
> moved it to the kitchen 3 years ago and it was the same. Starting 2 weeks
> ago it started making noise when running. This happened many years ago and
> it was caused by condensation freezing on the fan blades. Dumping out the
> water solved the problem. I noticed that the temperature of the Vinotemp
> was now 50 degrees instead of the 55 I had set it to. I increased the
> thermostat and it is back to 55. Now when it starts it is downright quiet..
> The cooling unit now works better and it is quieter. Should I be worried?
>
> Fred.

Interesting. I don't think the noise is a reason for concern, but 15
years is a long time for those kind of compressors.

"DaleW" > skrev i melding
...
Interesting. I don't think the noise is a reason for concern, but 15
years is a long time for those kind of compressors.

Hmm, my fridge is 30years old, still working impeccably. A different sort
of compressor?

Anders

On Apr 5, 6:04*pm, "Anders Tørneskog" >
wrote:
> "DaleW" > skrev i ...
> Interesting. I don't think the noise is a reason for concern, but 15
> years is a long time for those kind of compressors.
>
> Hmm, my fridge is 30years old, still working impeccably. *A different sort
> of compressor?
>
> Anders

Well, I'd assume a fridge (do you mean a regular fridge,or wine
fridge?) built in 1980 would have had Freon or other CFC. But they
started phasing out CFCs about 20=25 years ago I believe so different
at least as far as coolant,
In any case 30 years for a fridge is certainly possible (my parents
had one as their extra fridge in their basement that was probably that
old) but not common. A lot depends on luck and load. A cooling unit in
Florida and las Vegas might well see more of a load that one in more
northerly climates (even if one has AC, it probably works harder than
a place where temps are colder)
The question is what happens if unit fails. If it's in a AC controlled
area and one doesn't travel, failure might not be a big deal. But if
one travels, and turns AC to 80 F when you're away, a 15 year old unit
failing could be a real problems
I've heard of lots of wine units failing after only a few years.
Breezaire offers a full one year warranty, with 5 years parts.

On Apr 5, 8:20*pm, DaleW > wrote:
> On Apr 5, 6:04*pm, "Anders Tørneskog" >
> wrote:
>
> > "DaleW" > skrev i ...
> > Interesting. I don't think the noise is a reason for concern, but 15
> > years is a long time for those kind of compressors.
>
> > Hmm, my fridge is 30years old, still working impeccably. *A different sort
> > of compressor?
>
> > Anders
>
> Well, I'd assume a fridge (do you mean a regular fridge,or wine
> fridge?) built in 1980 would have had Freon or other CFC. *But they
> started phasing out CFCs about 20=25 years ago I believe so different
> at least as far as coolant,
> In any case 30 years for a fridge is certainly possible (my parents
> had one as their extra fridge in their basement that was probably that
> old) but not common. A lot depends on luck and load. A cooling unit in
> Florida and las Vegas might well see more of a load that one in more
> northerly climates (even if one has AC, it probably works harder than
> a place where temps are colder)
> The question is what happens if unit fails. If it's in a AC controlled
> area and one doesn't travel, failure might not be a big deal. But if
> one travels, and turns AC to 80 F when you're away, a 15 year old unit
> failing could be *a real problems
> I've heard of lots of wine units failing after only a few years.
> Breezaire offers a full one year warranty, with 5 years parts.

That was my offhand reply. But since posting I've pondered this
slightly, and confused myself. Can one of the more tech/science types
out there explain the differences between how a regular refrigerator,
a wine cooler, and an air conditioner work? I know principles are the
same, but there are obivious differences. Thinking about it, I've
never seen water collection for a refrigerator, though certainly I
have for ACs. I've heard of ACs and wine coolers freezing up, but
never a refrigerator. But on other hand ACs aim for low humidity,
while wine cooling units want higher humidity. Doesn't directly answer
Fred's question, but I'd love it if someone knowledgeable. could
comment.

"DaleW" > skrev i melding
...
>

.. Thinking about it, I've
never seen water collection for a refrigerator, though certainly I
have for ACs. I've heard of ACs and wine coolers freezing up, but
never a refrigerator.

I meant a kitchen fridge only, and my unit does have a sort of water runoff
at the backside - where water evaporates. Afaik there's supposed to be a
few drops only, running from an automatical de-icing of the panels at the
top shelf. Don't ask me - it has worked without a hitch since December
1979.
(At the summer cabin there's a fridge my parents installed in 1970
something, but that's only on whenever someone is there.)

I'm going to rebuild the kitchen this summer and replace the fridge - and
the new models are far more ecological and consuming far less energy, of
course. :-)

Anders

On Apr 5, 8:31*pm, DaleW > wrote:
> On Apr 5, 8:20*pm, DaleW > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 5, 6:04*pm, "Anders Tørneskog" >
> > wrote:
>
> > > "DaleW" > skrev i ...
> > > Interesting. I don't think the noise is a reason for concern, but 15
> > > years is a long time for those kind of compressors.
>
> > > Hmm, my fridge is 30years old, still working impeccably. *A different sort
> > > of compressor?
>
> > > Anders
>
> > Well, I'd assume a fridge (do you mean a regular fridge,or wine
> > fridge?) built in 1980 would have had Freon or other CFC. *But they
> > started phasing out CFCs about 20=25 years ago I believe so different
> > at least as far as coolant,
> > In any case 30 years for a fridge is certainly possible (my parents
> > had one as their extra fridge in their basement that was probably that
> > old) but not common. A lot depends on luck and load. A cooling unit in
> > Florida and las Vegas might well see more of a load that one in more
> > northerly climates (even if one has AC, it probably works harder than
> > a place where temps are colder)
> > The question is what happens if unit fails. If it's in a AC controlled
> > area and one doesn't travel, failure might not be a big deal. But if
> > one travels, and turns AC to 80 F when you're away, a 15 year old unit
> > failing could be *a real problems
> > I've heard of lots of wine units failing after only a few years.
> > Breezaire offers a full one year warranty, with 5 years parts.
>
> That was my offhand reply. But since posting I've pondered this
> slightly, and confused myself. Can one of the more tech/science types
> out there explain the differences between how a regular refrigerator,
> a wine cooler, and an air conditioner work? I know principles are the
> same, but there are obivious differences. *Thinking about it, I've
> never seen water collection for a refrigerator, though certainly I
> have for ACs. I've heard of ACs and wine coolers freezing up, but
> never a refrigerator. But on other hand ACs aim for low humidity,
> while wine cooling units want higher humidity. Doesn't directly answer
> Fred's question, but I'd love it if someone knowledgeable. could
> comment.

Most modern, popular, larger sized US brand kitchen refrigerators have
both a freezing compartment kept at 0 F or lower and a refrigerator
compartment kept just a few degrees above the freezing point of water.
The refrigeration coils are associated with the freezing compartment,
but usually hidden from view in modern design. Fans circulate air from
the freezing compartment and cooling coils(evaporator) into the
refrigerator compartment and back. Of course the cooling coils must
freeze over with ice, since they have to keep the freezer compartment
well below the freezing point of water. Nearly all of the larger
kitchen refrigerators are now self-defrosting. On a fixed schedule,
often 2-3 times a day, rather powerful heating elements are turned on
to melt ice build up around the cooling coils and elsewhere. Since the
fans are turned off for defrosting, hot air does not get circulated
very much. The water typically is routed to a large, shallow,
collection tray under the refrigerator. A fan blows on this collected
water to evaporate it into the room.

Large cold rooms work in much the same way as the self-defrosting
refrigerator. The cooling coils usually are mounted in an evaporator
unit with fans to circulate the cool air through the room. The
compressor unit is located elsewhere, outdoors, in an attic, etc.
Every so often heating elements come on to defrost the cooling coils
in the evaporator, and the water is drained away through a pipe.

Self-contained wine coolers sometimes also have heating elements to
melt ice. The heating elements are not needed in some designs since
the operating temperature of the room is much above the freezing point
of water. In any event, fans blow air over collected water and into
the room to re-introduce water that is condensed out by the cooling
coils. This allows somewhat imperfect humidity control.

In central home air conditioning, the evaporator is at some remote
location, and fans blow chilled air from the evaporator into ducts to
rooms in the house, and air is then returned to the evaporator. Here
the best way to control humidity is to use humidifier units that spray
fine jets of water into the air and can be set over a very wide range.

Finally, there is the room air conditioner that often is installed in
a window. The compressor part is outdoors, and a fan blows outside air
over the condenser coils of it to get rid of heat generated in
compression. The evaporator is indoors, and a fan circulates room air
over the cooling coils of it into the room. Water is collected at the
bottom of the room AC and goes into the part located outdoors There
the fan splashes much of the water over the compressor coils to help
cool them. Any excess water drips outside.

Evaporator coil ice buildup depends on several factors, some of which
are the type of refrigerant used, the charge pressure of the
refrigerant, the air flow rate over the evaporator coil, the humidity
of the air, etc. If the thermostat is set too low, the compressor is
running long, and the humidity is very high, then ice buildup is most
likely to become a problem. Most cooling units, regardless of type,
will specify a minimum and maximum temperature for which they are
designed. A typical window room air conditioner is not designed to
cool down to 55 to 60 F without freezing up in very humid weather when
the unit is running most of the time. This often can be overcome by
using a greatly over-sized window AC - I use one of about 18000 BTU
capacity for a small well insulated room. This AC normally would cool
several rooms in a house. Special thermostats designed for use in
liquids prevent very short on cycles that can damage an AC. An added
large fan greatly increases the airflow into the AC from the room.
Thus the AC may freeze some ice the short time it is on, but the high
velocity of the air from the added fan melts the ice during the off
cycle and blows much of the moisture back into the room. A small room
humidifier increases the humidity when needed, but it is not on very
often. In case of failure, I have a spare new AC that just slides into
the case mounted in the window. In case of extended power failure, I
have a generator capable of running the wine room AC and a wew other
essentials.

Modern kitchen refrigerators are different from in older ones in many
ways. Many different refrigerants have been used over the years
including sulfur dioxide, several types of freon, etc. Compressors
have largely been changed from a piston design to a rotary design. The
energy efficiency has been greatly increased. In some of these newer
designs, the compressor runs much of the time, and this might
contribute somewhat to a lower lifespan for the compressor than for
some past designs. There is also concern to reduce noise as much as
possible. Refrigerators differ considerably in failure rates for
different brands. However the inclusion of automatic ice makers and
running ice water can greatly increase the failure rate. After the
refrigerator is several years old, it often is cheaper to buy a new
refrigerator than to have the old one repaired, especially if the old
one is of low energy efficiency. One of the most reliable
refrigerators I have heard of was owned by a great uncle of mine. It
was a refrigerator that ran on natural gas. I do not know how long he
had it - at least 25 years, but that refrigerator outlasted him.

On Apr 6, 3:26*pm, cwdjrxyz > wrote:
> On Apr 5, 8:31*pm, DaleW > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 5, 8:20*pm, DaleW > wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 5, 6:04*pm, "Anders Tørneskog" >
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > "DaleW" > skrev i ...
> > > > Interesting. I don't think the noise is a reason for concern, but 15
> > > > years is a long time for those kind of compressors.
>
> > > > Hmm, my fridge is 30years old, still working impeccably. *A different sort
> > > > of compressor?
>
> > > > Anders
>
> > > Well, I'd assume a fridge (do you mean a regular fridge,or wine
> > > fridge?) built in 1980 would have had Freon or other CFC. *But they
> > > started phasing out CFCs about 20=25 years ago I believe so different
> > > at least as far as coolant,
> > > In any case 30 years for a fridge is certainly possible (my parents
> > > had one as their extra fridge in their basement that was probably that
> > > old) but not common. A lot depends on luck and load. A cooling unit in
> > > Florida and las Vegas might well see more of a load that one in more
> > > northerly climates (even if one has AC, it probably works harder than
> > > a place where temps are colder)
> > > The question is what happens if unit fails. If it's in a AC controlled
> > > area and one doesn't travel, failure might not be a big deal. But if
> > > one travels, and turns AC to 80 F when you're away, a 15 year old unit
> > > failing could be *a real problems
> > > I've heard of lots of wine units failing after only a few years.
> > > Breezaire offers a full one year warranty, with 5 years parts.
>
> > That was my offhand reply. But since posting I've pondered this
> > slightly, and confused myself. Can one of the more tech/science types
> > out there explain the differences between how a regular refrigerator,
> > a wine cooler, and an air conditioner work? I know principles are the
> > same, but there are obivious differences. *Thinking about it, I've
> > never seen water collection for a refrigerator, though certainly I
> > have for ACs. I've heard of ACs and wine coolers freezing up, but
> > never a refrigerator. But on other hand ACs aim for low humidity,
> > while wine cooling units want higher humidity. Doesn't directly answer
> > Fred's question, but I'd love it if someone knowledgeable. could
> > comment.
>
> Most modern, popular, larger sized US brand kitchen refrigerators have
> both a freezing compartment kept at 0 F or lower and a refrigerator
> compartment kept just a few degrees above the freezing point of water.
> The refrigeration coils are associated with the freezing compartment,
> but usually hidden from view in modern design. Fans circulate air from
> the freezing compartment and cooling coils(evaporator) into the
> refrigerator compartment and back. Of course the cooling coils must
> freeze over with ice, since they have to keep the freezer compartment
> well below the freezing point of water. Nearly all of the larger
> kitchen refrigerators are now self-defrosting. On a fixed schedule,
> often 2-3 times a day, *rather powerful heating elements are turned on
> to melt ice build up around the cooling coils and elsewhere. Since the
> fans are turned off for defrosting, hot air does not get circulated
> very much. The water typically *is routed to a large, shallow,
> collection tray under the refrigerator. A fan blows on this collected
> water to evaporate it into *the room.
>
> Large cold rooms work in much the same way as the self-defrosting
> refrigerator. The cooling coils usually are mounted in an evaporator
> unit with fans to circulate the cool air through the room. The
> compressor unit is located elsewhere, outdoors, in an attic, etc.
> Every so often heating elements come on to defrost the cooling coils
> in the evaporator, and the water is drained away through a pipe.
>
> Self-contained wine coolers sometimes also have heating elements to
> melt ice. The heating elements are not needed in some designs since
> the operating temperature of the room is much above the freezing point
> of water. In any event, fans blow air over collected water and into
> the room to re-introduce water that is condensed out by the cooling
> coils. This allows somewhat imperfect humidity control.
>
> In central home air conditioning, the evaporator is at some remote
> location, and fans blow chilled air from the evaporator into ducts to
> rooms in the house, and air is then returned to the evaporator. Here
> the best way to control humidity is to use humidifier units that spray
> fine jets of water into the air and can be set over a very wide range.
>
> Finally, there is the room air conditioner that often is installed in
> a window. The compressor part is outdoors, and a fan blows outside air
> over the condenser coils of it to get rid of heat generated in
> compression. The evaporator is indoors, and a fan circulates room air
> over the cooling coils of it into the room. Water is collected at the
> bottom of the room AC and goes into the part located outdoors There
> the fan splashes much of the water over the compressor coils to help
> cool them. Any excess water drips outside.
>
> Evaporator coil ice buildup depends on several factors, *some of which
> are the type of refrigerant used, the charge pressure of the
> refrigerant, the air flow rate over the evaporator coil, the humidity
> of the air, etc. If the thermostat is set too low, the compressor is
> running long, and the humidity is very high, then ice buildup is most
> likely to become a problem. Most cooling units, regardless of type,
> will specify a minimum and maximum temperature for which they are
> designed. A typical window room air conditioner is not designed to
> cool down to 55 to 60 F without freezing up in very humid weather when
> the unit is running most of the time. This often can be overcome by
> using a greatly over-sized window AC - I use one of about 18000 BTU
> capacity for a small well insulated room. This AC normally would cool
> several rooms in a house. Special thermostats designed for use in
> liquids prevent very short on cycles that can damage an AC. An added
> large fan greatly increases the airflow into the AC from the room.
> Thus the AC may freeze some ice the short time it is on, but the high
> velocity of the air from the added fan melts the ice during the off
> cycle and blows much of the moisture back into the room. A small room
> humidifier increases the humidity when needed, but it is not on very
> often. In case of failure, I have a spare new AC that just slides into
> the case mounted in the window. In case of extended power failure, I
> have a generator capable of running the wine room AC and a wew other
> essentials.
>
> Modern kitchen refrigerators are different from in older ones in many
> ways. Many different refrigerants have been used over the years
> including sulfur dioxide, several types of freon, etc. Compressors
> have largely been changed from a piston design to a rotary design. The
> energy efficiency has been greatly increased. In some of these newer
> designs, the compressor runs much of the time, and this might
> contribute somewhat to a lower lifespan for the compressor than for
> some past designs. There is also concern to reduce noise as much as
> possible. Refrigerators differ considerably in failure rates for
> different brands. However the inclusion of automatic ice makers and
> running ice water can greatly increase the failure rate. After the
> refrigerator is several years old, it often is cheaper to buy a new
> refrigerator than to have the old one repaired, especially if the old
> one is of low energy efficiency. One of the most reliable
> refrigerators I have heard of was owned by a great uncle of mine. It
> was a refrigerator that ran on natural gas. I do not know how long he
> had it - at least 25 years, but that refrigerator outlasted him.

thanks for an absolutely great summary, clear and detailed!
I guess my fridge evaporates water faster than AC, so I hadn't
noticed.
I do know that cleaning coils annually helps extend life.
As noted in response to Anders, the big question is how much a failure
means to Fred. Is it ok to have a significant possibility of failure?
Which is what I'd forecast with a 15 yr old unit. Maybe not
probability, but definitely significant possibility/
I need to get a generator. My cellar is passive, so not an issue. But
my 120 year old house has a wet basement (we're lowlands next to big
hills), and my sump pump gets good workout, But recent multi-day
outages made me realize my battery backup pump won't be a solution for
those type of outages (I was lucky that street behind wsn't out, ran
extension cords). Debating NG v. gasoline. Just want something to run
sump and one other outlet. Cold water flood wouldn't harm wine, but
I'd hate to have to guess what hundreds of bottles were if labels
washed off.