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Wine (alt.food.wine) Devoted to the discussion of wine and wine-related topics. A place to read and comment about wines, wine and food matching, storage systems, wine paraphernalia, etc. In general, any topic related to wine is valid fodder for the group. |
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The question is, why is wine the only exception to the notion that all
food products should be labelled with a list of ingredients. It appears that, in Europe at least, there are over 400 substances that you can add to wine, many of them not very savoury. I understand that the consumer is not always able to undestand the meaning of these lists of ingredients. For example, many look for food products that contain "natural flavouring" as opposed to "artificial flavouring", thinking that "natural" means, for example, that an apricot drink actually has had a flavour added that was directly derived from the fruit. Nothing is further from the truth of course, natural flavouring is a chemical made from precursors that are obtained from natural sources, but it is an artificial flavour. Some countries oblige wineries to mention that a wine may "contain sulfites", but no quantities are given. Is it desirable to know what went into a wine? I think so. I have spent enough time around wineries to realize that in many even reputable places all kinds of things are done to wine to make it fit into a market mold. Acidification, sugaring, enzymes, correctors, treatments using potassium cyanide or ferric chloride and other nasty things, flavours, wood chips, water, etc.. Of course, there are also wineries that are proud to use a lighter approach, at most using some sulfites before bottling to protect the wine. What do you think? List of ingredient and procedures? Or not? Mike Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail |
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![]() "Mike Tommasi" > wrote in message ... > Is it desirable to know what went into a wine? I think so. I have > spent enough time around wineries to realize that in many even > reputable places all kinds of things are done to wine to make it fit > into a market mold. Acidification, sugaring, enzymes, correctors, > treatments using potassium cyanide [snip] That's not quite right, Mike. I suspect you mean potassium ferrocyanide (or ferrocyanate), which IIRC is used to remove excess copper from wine. Potassium cyanide is NEVER used in winemaking! It is extremely poisonous. or ferric chloride and other nasty > things, flavours, wood chips, water, etc.. > > Of course, there are also wineries that are proud to use a lighter > approach, at most using some sulfites before bottling to protect the > wine. > > What do you think? List of ingredient and procedures? Or not? Here in the US there is a list of permissible additives to wine. The list isn't very long - surely not as many as 400 items. Many of them do not actually remain in the finished product (e.g. yeast, fining materials). Furthermore, the use of and amounts thereof are generally regarded as proprietary information by winemakers - i.e., "trade secrets" - although they do have to be reported to the government. Anyway, ingredient labeling on wine is something that will surely be resisted by wineries in any country, if for no other reasons than it is an a further administrative pain in the butt for them, and labels are crowded enough as it is. Tom S |
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On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 13:47:49 +0200, Mike Tommasi >
wrote: >The question is, why is wine the only exception to the notion that all >food products should be labelled with a list of ingredients. > >It appears that, in Europe at least, there are over 400 substances >that you can add to wine, many of them not very savoury. > Here is the list of things you can do to or add to wine : COUNCIL REGULATION (EC) No 1493/1999 of 17 May 1999 on the common organisation of the market in wine ANNEX IV LIST OF AUTHORISED OENOLOGICAL PRACTICES AND PROCESSES 1. Oenological practices and processes which may be applied to fresh grapes, grape must, grape must in fermentation, grape must in fermentation extracted from raisined grapes, concentrated grape must and new wine still in fermentation: (a) aeration or the addition of oxygen; (b) heat treatment; (c) centrifuging and filtration, with or without an inert filtering agent, on condition that no undesirable residue is left in the products so treated; (d) use of carbon dioxide, argon or nitrogen, either alone or combined, solely in order to create an inert atmosphere and to handle the product shielded from the air; (e) use of yeasts for wine production; (f) use of one or more of the following practices to encourage the growth of yeasts; - addition of diammonium phosphate or ammonium sulphate within certain limits, - addition of ammonium sulphite or ammonium bisulphite within certain limits, - addition of thiamin hydrochloride within certain limits; (g) use of sulphur dioxide, potassium bisulphite or potassium metabisulphite which may also be called potassium disulphite or potassium pyrosulphite; (h) elimination of sulphur dioxide by physical processes; (i) treatment of white must and new white wine still in fermentation with charcoal for oenological use, within certain limits; (j) clarification by means of one or more of the following substances for oenological use: - edible gelatine, - isinglass, - casein and potassium caseinate, - ovalbumin and/or lactalbumin, - bentonite, - silicon dioxide as a gel or colloidal solution, - kaolin, - tannin, - pectinolytic enzymes, - an enzymatic preparation of betaglucanase, under conditions to be determined; (k) use of sorbic acid or potassium sorbate; (l) use of tartaric acid for acidification purposes under the conditions laid down in points E and G of Annex V; (m) use of one or more of the following substances for deacidification purposes under the conditions laid down in points E and G of Annex V: - neutral potassium tartrate, - potassium bicarbonate, - calcium carbonate, which may contain small quantities of the double calcium salt of L (+) tartaric and L (-) malic acids, - calcium tartrate, - tartaric acid, under conditions to be determined, - a homogeneous preparation of tartaric acid and calcium carbonate in equivalent proportions and finely pulverised; (n) the use of Aleppo pine resin under conditions to be determined; (o) the use of preparations of yeast cell wall, within certain limits; (p) the use of polyvinylpolypyrrolidone within certain limits and under conditions to be determined; (q) the use of lactic bacteria in a vinous suspension under conditions to be determined; (r) the addition of lysozyme within limits and under conditions to be determined. 2. Oenological practices and processes which may be applied to grape must intended for the manufacture of rectified concentrated grape must: (a) aeration; (b) heat treatment; (c) centrifuging and filtration, with or without an inert filtering agent, on condition that no undesirable residue is left in the product so treated; (d) use of sulphur dioxide, potassium bisulphite or potassium metabisulphite which may also be called potassium disulphite or potassium pyrosulphite; (e) elimination of sulphur dioxide by physical processes; (f) treatment with charcoal for oenological use; (g) use of calcium carbonate, which may contain small quantities of the double calcium salt of L (+) tartaric and L (-) malic acids; (h) use of ion exchange resins under conditions to be determined. 3. Processes and oenological practices which may be applied to grape must in fermentation intended for direct human consumption as such, wine suitable for producing table wine, table wine, sparkling wine, aerated sparkling wine, semi-sparkling wine, aerated semi-sparkling wine, liqueur wine and quality wines psr: (a) use in dry wines, and in quantities not exceeding 5 %, of fresh lees which are sound and undiluted and contain yeasts resulting from the recent vinification of dry wines; (b) aeration or bubbling using argon or nitrogen; (c) heat treatment; (d) centrifuging and filtration, with or without an inert filtering agent, on condition that no undesirable residue is left in the products so treated; (e) use of carbon dioxide, argon or nitrogen, either alone or combined, solely in order to create an inert atmosphere and to handle the product shielded from the air; (f) addition of carbon dioxide, within certain limits, (g) use, under the conditions laid down in this Regulation, of sulphur dioxide, potassium bisulphite or potassium metabisulphite, which may also be called potassium disulphite or potassium pyrosulphite; (h) addition of sorbic acid or potassium sorbate provided that the final sorbic acid content of the treated product on its release to the market for direct human consumption does not exceed 200 mg/l; (i) addition of L-ascorbic acid up to certain limits; (j) addition of citric acid for wine stabilisation purposes, within certain limits; (k) use of tartaric acid for acidification purposes under the conditions laid down in points E and G of Annex V; (l) use of one or more of the following substances for deacidification purposes under the conditions laid down in points E and G of Annex V: - neutral potassium tartrate, - potassium bicarbonate, - calcium carbonate, which may contain small quantities of the double calcium salt of L (+) tartaric and L (-) malic acids, - calcium tartrate, - tartaric acid, under conditions to be determined, - a homogeneous preparation of tartaric acid and calcium carbonate in equivalent proportions and finely pulverised; (m) clarification by means of one or more of the following substances for oenological use: - edible gelatine, - isinglass, - casein and potassium caseinate, - ovalbumin and/or lactalbumin, - bentonite, - silicon dioxide as a gel or colloidal solution, - kaolin; - an enzymatic preparation of betaglucanase, under conditions to be determined; (n) addition of tannin; (o) treatment of white wines with charcoal for oenological use, within certain limits, (p) treatment, under conditions to be laid down: - of grape must in fermentation intended for direct human consumption as such, white wines and rosé wines with potassium ferrocyanide, - of red wines with potassium ferrocyanide or with calcium phytate; (q) addition of metatartaric acid within certain limits; (r) use of acacia; (s) use of DL tartaric acid, also called racemic acid, or of is neutral salt of potassium, under conditions to be laid down, for precipitating excess calcium; (t) use, for the manufacture of sparkling wines obtained by fermentation in bottle and with the lees separated by disgorging: - of calcium alginate, or - of potassium alginate. (ta) the use of yeasts for wine production, dry or in wine suspension, for the production of sparkling wine; (tb) the addition, in the production of sparkling wine, of thiamine and ammonium salts to the basic wines, to encourage the growth of yeasts, under the following conditions: - for nutritive salts, diammonium phosphate or ammonium sulphate within certain limits, - for growth factors, thiamine in the form of thiamine hydrochloride, within certain limits; (u) use of discs of pure paraffin impregnated with allyl isothiocyanate to create sterile atmosphere, solely in Member States in which it is traditional and so long as it is not forbidden by national law, provided that they are used only in containers holding more than 20 litres and that there is no trace of allyl isothiocyanate in the wine; (v) addition, to assist the precipitation of tartar, of - potassium bitartrate - calcium tartrate, within limits and under conditions to be determined; (w) use of copper sulphate to eliminate defects of taste or smell in the wine, up to certain limits; (x) the use of preparations of yeast cell wall, within certain limits; (y) the use of polyvinylpolypyrrolidone, within certain limits and conditions to be determined; (z) the use of lactic bacteria in a vinous suspension under conditions to be determined; (za) addition of caramel within the meaning of Directive 94/36/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 30 June 1994 on colours for use in foodstuffs(1) to reinforce the colour of liqueur wines and liqueur wines psr; (zb) addition of lysozme, within limits and under conditions to be determined. 4. Oenological practices and processes that can be used for the products referred to in the introductory sentence to paragraph 3, solely under conditions of use to be determined: (a) addition of oxygen; (b) electrodialysis treatment to ensure the tartaric stabilisation of the wine; (c) use of a urease to reduce the level of urea in the wine. Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail |
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![]() "Mike Tommasi" > wrote in message ... > The question is, why is wine the only exception to the notion that all > food products should be labelled with a list of ingredients. > <snip/> I hope you don't mind my snip. Your question started with 'why' and I suggest that it might be because the wine producing community is influential enough to pressure governments to let it lie/ leave wine alone. Rothschild doesn't just look after (albeit vast) vineyards, afterall. Just a glib thought but relevant, I think. Your average consumer is about as likely to know Tartrazine as s/he is Potassium Metabisulphate or Nicotine but once it's on the label some of us might make the effort to find out. I think that not confusing the customer ain't a reason. Oh no, business as usual. Most wine production is about sales/ profit (my own being an exception: I can't give it away ;-() and as such should be understood or read like any product. Hmm.... ..........Co- Op mushy peas no longer contain tartrazine, Marlboro 'Nicotine Delivery System' cigarettes ain't selling like they were last year and Sainsbury's sell organic food. I'd like to go on but some of you might be pleased to know that it's bedtime here. Regards Sammy |
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On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 13:47:49 +0200, Mike Tommasi >
wrote: >The question is, why is wine the only exception to the notion that all >food products should be labelled with a list of ingredients. > >It appears that, in Europe at least, there are over 400 substances >that you can add to wine, many of them not very savoury. > >I understand that the consumer is not always able to undestand the >meaning of these lists of ingredients. For example, many look for food >products that contain "natural flavouring" as opposed to "artificial >flavouring", thinking that "natural" means, for example, that an >apricot drink actually has had a flavour added that was directly >derived from the fruit. Nothing is further from the truth of course, >natural flavouring is a chemical made from precursors that are >obtained from natural sources, but it is an artificial flavour. > >Some countries oblige wineries to mention that a wine may "contain >sulfites", but no quantities are given. > >Is it desirable to know what went into a wine? I think so. I have >spent enough time around wineries to realize that in many even >reputable places all kinds of things are done to wine to make it fit >into a market mold. Acidification, sugaring, enzymes, correctors, >treatments using potassium cyanide or ferric chloride and other nasty >things, flavours, wood chips, water, etc.. > >Of course, there are also wineries that are proud to use a lighter >approach, at most using some sulfites before bottling to protect the >wine. > >What do you think? List of ingredient and procedures? Or not? > In the USA, ingredients are required to be listed on a label only if they exceed a certain threshold, which varies according to each particular ingredient. For example, wines that contain less than a certain proportion of sulfites are not required to carry the phrase "Contains Sulfites" on the label. Of course in the EU the phrase is not required at all regardless of the proportion, leading many people to tell me in all sincerity that European winemakers don't use sulfites and that that is why they didn't get headaches from drinking wines on their latest trip to Europe but still get them from American wines. Also, it is possible for a food to carry on the label the phrase "Fat [insert just about anything else here]-Free when in fact it contains a measurable amount of fat, but the fat content is low enough to qualify for this phrasing. I'm not sure exactly how this plays into your question but it's something to be considered. Vino |
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On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 00:17:34 GMT, Vino > wrote:
>Of course in the EU the phrase is >not required at all regardless of the proportion, leading many people >to tell me in all sincerity that European winemakers don't use >sulfites and that that is why they didn't get headaches from drinking >wines on their latest trip to Europe but still get them from American >wines. Well, that adds fuel to the argument that headaches have nothing to do with sulfites. Sulfites are used in Europe. Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail |
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On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 08:13:46 +0200, Mike Tommasi >
wrote: >On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 00:17:34 GMT, Vino > wrote: > >>Of course in the EU the phrase is >>not required at all regardless of the proportion, leading many people >>to tell me in all sincerity that European winemakers don't use >>sulfites and that that is why they didn't get headaches from drinking >>wines on their latest trip to Europe but still get them from American >>wines. > >Well, that adds fuel to the argument that headaches have nothing to do >with sulfites. Sulfites are used in Europe. > I've always enjoyed the "headaches are caused by sulfites" argument. From my earliest student days I've always associated headaches with my own choice of drinking to excess, be it silly things like a night of tequila slammers (then) or opening that second bottle of port and then rounding off the evening with Islay malt (now). The sulfite argument always seems to be down to people who either can't take responsibility for their own actions and always need to blame someone else. Of course they didn't get a headache in Europe because no one who knew them were there to see them get sh*tfaced drunk. Back home they weren't in that state at all, it was an allergic reaction to the sulfites or something :-) James James Dempster (remove nospam to reply by email) You know you've had a good night when you wake up and someone's outlining you in chalk. |
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On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:50:23 +0100, James Dempster
> wrote: >> >I've always enjoyed the "headaches are caused by sulfites" argument. >From my earliest student days I've always associated headaches with my >own choice of drinking to excess, be it silly things like a night of >tequila slammers (then) or opening that second bottle of port and then >rounding off the evening with Islay malt (now). > >The sulfite argument always seems to be down to people who either >can't take responsibility for their own actions and always need to >blame someone else. > >Of course they didn't get a headache in Europe because no one who knew >them were there to see them get sh*tfaced drunk. Back home they >weren't in that state at all, it was an allergic reaction to the >sulfites or something :-) I enjoyed reading your post James, somehow people think that wine is the only food product with sulfites. It is strange how, irrespective of sulfite amounts, there are some wines that in no time can give you a headache that feels like someone is driving a screwdriver (not the drink) through your brain, while other wines seem to allow you to drink a quantity so generous that other things may happen before you notice any headache... One wine that consistently gives me a headache (and I do not often get wine headaches) is Domaine Ott Blanc de Blancs (stupid name is it not, as if other whites were not blanc de blancs). Maybe that is what gives headaches, silly labels? Mike Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail |
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![]() "Mike Tommasi" > wrote in message ... > On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:50:23 +0100, James Dempster > > wrote: > snip Domaine Ott Blanc de Blancs (stupid name is it not, > as if other whites were not blanc de blancs). Hi Mike, blanc de blancs traditionally means white wine from white grapes. Linguistically speaking (is there any other way :-)) I suppose all white wine is 'white of white' but on a wine label it should but often doesn't, denote that it is a white made from only white grapes. Champagne and other (white) fizzes are commonly made from black grapes. Another thing, I *think/ just about believe* that there are very few rules regarding use of the term blanc de blancs: it's possible that a producer or retailer could label a red wine like that without getting into trouble. I hope you like this info. Regards Sammy |
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![]() "Mike Tommasi" > wrote in message ... > On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:50:23 +0100, James Dempster > > wrote: > snip Domaine Ott Blanc de Blancs (stupid name is it not, > as if other whites were not blanc de blancs). Hi Mike, blanc de blancs traditionally means white wine from white grapes. Linguistically speaking (is there any other way :-)) I suppose all white wine is 'white of white' but on a wine label it should but often doesn't, denote that it is a white made from only white grapes. Champagne and other (white) fizzes are commonly made from black grapes. Another thing, I *think/ just about believe* that there are very few rules regarding use of the term blanc de blancs: it's possible that a producer or retailer could label a red wine like that without getting into trouble. I hope you like this info. Regards Sammy |
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On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 21:04:43 +0200, Mike Tommasi >
wrote: >It is strange how, irrespective of sulfite amounts, there are some >wines that in no time can give you a headache that feels like someone >is driving a screwdriver (not the drink) through your brain, while >other wines seem to allow you to drink a quantity so generous that >other things may happen before you notice any headache... > I'm pretty sure that the body gets attuned to things a person eats or drinks frequently. I've seen more of the screwdriver headaches with unusual or untried foods/drinks than with those that are common in my diet. Cheeses can be bad for headaches with some I know. Amongst my friends this isn't a problem, more so is our delight in well matured cheese. One often has to keep cheeses in the shed in the garden as his wife won't let them in the house :-) As for wines, whites always seem to be worse for that early-onset headache than reds (which creep up on you for later). Talking of which, there's a rather short vertical of Musar planned tomorrow for my 40th, and I'll try to post notes here when I've recovered. The causes of feeling unwell in all sorts of ways aren't just the alcohol or the "sulfites". There are some wines which provoke in me a horrible reaction which lasts for two days or so - sort of flu-like with aching joints and a run down feeling (but no sniffles or cold like symptoms). Fresh strawberries do the same (though cooked/processed don't). I don't know what the compound is, and can't really describe how it smells/tastes. If I don't smell it (which I usually can) I can immediately taste it in a wine and thus avoid more than a sip. It's not likely to be sulfites or anything unnaturally added as it first manifested itself when I was a child with strawberries fresh off the plants in my grandmother's garden. James James Dempster (remove nospam to reply by email) You know you've had a good night when you wake up and someone's outlining you in chalk. |
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On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 21:04:43 +0200, Mike Tommasi >
wrote: >It is strange how, irrespective of sulfite amounts, there are some >wines that in no time can give you a headache that feels like someone >is driving a screwdriver (not the drink) through your brain, while >other wines seem to allow you to drink a quantity so generous that >other things may happen before you notice any headache... > I'm pretty sure that the body gets attuned to things a person eats or drinks frequently. I've seen more of the screwdriver headaches with unusual or untried foods/drinks than with those that are common in my diet. Cheeses can be bad for headaches with some I know. Amongst my friends this isn't a problem, more so is our delight in well matured cheese. One often has to keep cheeses in the shed in the garden as his wife won't let them in the house :-) As for wines, whites always seem to be worse for that early-onset headache than reds (which creep up on you for later). Talking of which, there's a rather short vertical of Musar planned tomorrow for my 40th, and I'll try to post notes here when I've recovered. The causes of feeling unwell in all sorts of ways aren't just the alcohol or the "sulfites". There are some wines which provoke in me a horrible reaction which lasts for two days or so - sort of flu-like with aching joints and a run down feeling (but no sniffles or cold like symptoms). Fresh strawberries do the same (though cooked/processed don't). I don't know what the compound is, and can't really describe how it smells/tastes. If I don't smell it (which I usually can) I can immediately taste it in a wine and thus avoid more than a sip. It's not likely to be sulfites or anything unnaturally added as it first manifested itself when I was a child with strawberries fresh off the plants in my grandmother's garden. James James Dempster (remove nospam to reply by email) You know you've had a good night when you wake up and someone's outlining you in chalk. |
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"Sammy" > wrote:
> blanc de blancs traditionally means white wine from white > grapes. Linguistically speaking (is there any other way :-)) I > suppose all white wine is 'white of white' but on a wine label > it should but often doesn't, denote that it is a white made from > only white grapes. Champagne and other (white) fizzes are > commonly made from black grapes. Another thing, I *think/ just > about believe* that there are very few rules regarding use of > the term blanc de blancs: it's possible that a producer or > retailer could label a red wine like that without getting into > trouble. I don't know if I really get you message. First, 99.9% of all white wine is made from white grapes. There are well-known exceptions: Champagne (except for those labelled "Blanc de blancs" which are made from chardonnay only) and white zin the most notable. Second: Most other fizzes worldwide are made from white grapes. Third: The usage of "blanc de blancs" on the labels of white wine (still or sparkling) is not restricted, as long as there are no red grapes in the make-up. Fourth: "Blanc de blancs" on the label of a red (or rosé) wine is ruled out, of course, since it's misleading. M. |
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>The causes of feeling unwell in all sorts of ways aren't just the
>alcohol or the "sulfites". There are some wines which provoke in me a >horrible reaction which lasts for two days or so - sort of flu-like >with aching joints and a run down feeling (but no sniffles or cold >like symptoms). Fresh strawberries do the same (though >cooked/processed don't). > >I don't know what the compound is, and can't really describe how it >smells/tastes. If I don't smell it (which I usually can) I can >immediately taste it in a wine and >thus avoid more than a sip. It's >not likely to be sulfites or anything unnaturally added as it first >manifested itself when I was a child with strawberries fresh off the >plants in my grandmother's garden This sounds like an allergy to me. Histamines are prevalent in red wines. (I think this is right, but the physical scientists can clarify). I stopped mixing red wine and cheese, because it makes my mouth burn, although wine or cheese taken separately are OK for me. Ripe bananas and salad dressings can do the same thing to me. Mold growth may be a problem in the strawberries. I don't know about the wine. Food allergy tests are very unreliable, so checking this is difficult. Tom Schellberg |
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![]() "Xyzsch" > wrote in message ... > Histamines are prevalent in red wines. > (I think this is right, but the physical scientists can clarify). I stopped > mixing red wine and cheese, because it makes my mouth burn, although wine or > cheese taken separately are OK for me. I find that the mold that grows on Parmigiano Reggiano sometimes gives me the feeling of sores in my mouth. It isn't the cheese itself in my case, nor is it the cheese and wine combo. It goes away within minutes after I stop eating the cheese. Tom S |
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![]() "Xyzsch" > wrote in message ... > Histamines are prevalent in red wines. > (I think this is right, but the physical scientists can clarify). I stopped > mixing red wine and cheese, because it makes my mouth burn, although wine or > cheese taken separately are OK for me. I find that the mold that grows on Parmigiano Reggiano sometimes gives me the feeling of sores in my mouth. It isn't the cheese itself in my case, nor is it the cheese and wine combo. It goes away within minutes after I stop eating the cheese. Tom S |
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On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 17:01:16 GMT, "Tom S" >
wrote: > >"Xyzsch" > wrote in message ... >> Histamines are prevalent in red wines. >> (I think this is right, but the physical scientists can clarify). I >stopped >> mixing red wine and cheese, because it makes my mouth burn, although wine >or >> cheese taken separately are OK for me. > >I find that the mold that grows on Parmigiano Reggiano sometimes gives me >the feeling of sores in my mouth. You should not be getting mold on your Parmigiano Reggiano... Mike Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail |
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On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 17:01:16 GMT, "Tom S" >
wrote: > >"Xyzsch" > wrote in message ... >> Histamines are prevalent in red wines. >> (I think this is right, but the physical scientists can clarify). I >stopped >> mixing red wine and cheese, because it makes my mouth burn, although wine >or >> cheese taken separately are OK for me. > >I find that the mold that grows on Parmigiano Reggiano sometimes gives me >the feeling of sores in my mouth. You should not be getting mold on your Parmigiano Reggiano... Mike Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail |
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