In 1786, a "Gentleman of the Faculty" published a 16 page article in
London on
"Observations concerning the medical virtues of wine ... To which is
added, an account of some remarkable cures performed by the Tokay de
Espagna"

Who could help me find out what kind of wine this "Tokay de Espagna"
was? In the text the author refers to it several times without
explanation, suggesting that the term was well-known at that time.

Thanks!
Frank

Hi Frank

I am sorry but I'm not able to give you a positive answer.

On 8 Nov 2004 10:55:11 -0800, Frank > wrote:

> In 1786, a "Gentleman of the Faculty" published a 16 page article in
> London on
> "Observations concerning the medical virtues of wine ... To which is
> added, an account of some remarkable cures performed by the Tokay de
> Espagna"

I think the gentleman was in error. The wine concerned is the hungarian
"Tokaji ezsencia, which is often miss spelt to Tokay Essencia. (Aka
"Imperial Tokay") It's not a vast step to "Tokay d'espagna".

> Who could help me find out what kind of wine this "Tokay de Espagna"
> was? In the text the author refers to it several times without
> explanation, suggesting that the term was well-known at that time.

Eszencia was indeed well known at the time. One of the Frenck Kings
(sorry, no references while I'm on holiday) called it "The King of wines
and the Wine of Kings", and many miraculous cures have been attributed to
it. After some 40 years under communism, when the wine was mainly used to
improve Tokaji aszu for the Russian mass market, some examples are to be
found nowadays. It is probably about the most expensive wine in the world.

All the best

Ian
--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/



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Hi Frank

I am sorry but I'm not able to give you a positive answer.

On 8 Nov 2004 10:55:11 -0800, Frank > wrote:

> In 1786, a "Gentleman of the Faculty" published a 16 page article in
> London on
> "Observations concerning the medical virtues of wine ... To which is
> added, an account of some remarkable cures performed by the Tokay de
> Espagna"

I think the gentleman was in error. The wine concerned is the hungarian
"Tokaji ezsencia, which is often miss spelt to Tokay Essencia. (Aka
"Imperial Tokay") It's not a vast step to "Tokay d'espagna".

> Who could help me find out what kind of wine this "Tokay de Espagna"
> was? In the text the author refers to it several times without
> explanation, suggesting that the term was well-known at that time.

Eszencia was indeed well known at the time. One of the Frenck Kings
(sorry, no references while I'm on holiday) called it "The King of wines
and the Wine of Kings", and many miraculous cures have been attributed to
it. After some 40 years under communism, when the wine was mainly used to
improve Tokaji aszu for the Russian mass market, some examples are to be
found nowadays. It is probably about the most expensive wine in the world.

All the best

Ian
--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/



.................................................. ...............
Posted via TITANnews - Uncensored Newsgroups Access
>>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<<
-=Every Newsgroup - Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

It is quite possible that the Hungarian Tokaji wine was meant, since it
was used for medical purposes. By the way, this wine is made from a
mixture of a few grapes, none of which include Tokay or the Hungarian
equivaent in the grape names. Some other wines around the world have
been called Tokay, probably because of the fame of the true Hungarian
wine. There is a Flame Tokay table grape in California. California
"Tokay" long was sold and may still be. Since wine laws were often not
so strict in the distant past, it is quite possible that a "Tokay" might
have been mane in Spain and several other countries. There was even a
"Yquem" made in California in the 1800s. Ch. d'Yquem was perhaps even
more famous then than now, and apparetly the California "Yquem" was
banned fairly soon. I read about this in an old wine book many years
ago, but I do not recall the tite of the book.

My mailbox is always full to avoid spam. To contact me, erase
from my email address. Then add . I do not
check this box every day, so post if you need a quick response.

"Frank" in om...
> In 1786, a "Gentleman of the Faculty" published a 16 page
> article in London ... To which is added, an account of some
> remarkable cures performed by the Tokay de Espagna"
>
> Who could help me find out what kind of wine this "Tokay de
> Espagna" was? In the text the author refers to it several times
> without explanation, suggesting that the term was well-known
> at that time.

I have not researched that term, but it might be related to the years of
Hapsburg control of Spain (directly, 1506-1700). In 1687, Hungarian
aristocracy accepted Hapsburg claims to the Hungarian throne, hence the
legendary "dual monarchy" of Austria-Hungary. Political connections between
Spain and Hungary therefore, presumably, existed around 1700 and the story
may well be wider than that. Or unrelated. (Did the wine that is so
famously Hungarian today become established in Spain during that period? I
am curious also.)

In another and better-known case, Hapsburg dynastic connections (via Anne of
Austria to France, bringing Spanish cooks and establishing fashions) are
credited for the French saying "sauce Espagnole" or "Spanish sauce" for the
basic brown sauce that is one of A. Escoffier's four "foundation" or
"primary" sauces. (The others, if anyone wonders, being "velouté, Béchamel,
and tomato." _Guide Culinaire,_ 1921 edition, and if, like a number of
restaurant chefs, you dislike his list, please, for a change, argue with
Escoffier, not with me!)

[N.B.: None of this information is from online sources.]

-- Max

"Max Hauser" > wrote:

> In 1687, Hungarian aristocracy accepted Hapsburg claims to the
> Hungarian throne, hence the legendary "dual monarchy" of
> Austria-Hungary.

<nitpicking mode>

In 1687 there was nothing like a dual monarchy. The Hapsburgs were
Roman-German emperors, and reigns in their hereditary territories
("Erblande"), part of which (Austria) were part of the "Holy Romen
Empire", others (Hungary, Bohemia etc.) were not.

The dual Monarchy came into effect almost 200 years later, with
the "Ausgleich" in 1867. The official name from 1804 to 1867 was
"Kaisertum Österreich" (Austrian Empire), from 1867 to 1918
"Austria-Hungary".

</nitpicking mode>

M.

"Max Hauser" > wrote:

> In 1687, Hungarian aristocracy accepted Hapsburg claims to the
> Hungarian throne, hence the legendary "dual monarchy" of
> Austria-Hungary.

<nitpicking mode>

In 1687 there was nothing like a dual monarchy. The Hapsburgs were
Roman-German emperors, and reigns in their hereditary territories
("Erblande"), part of which (Austria) were part of the "Holy Romen
Empire", others (Hungary, Bohemia etc.) were not.

The dual Monarchy came into effect almost 200 years later, with
the "Ausgleich" in 1867. The official name from 1804 to 1867 was
"Kaisertum Österreich" (Austrian Empire), from 1867 to 1918
"Austria-Hungary".

</nitpicking mode>

M.

"Michael Pronay" in ...
>
>"Max Hauser" > wrote:
>> In 1687, Hungarian aristocracy accepted Hapsburg
>> claims to the Hungarian throne, hence the legendary
>> "dual monarchy" of Austria-Hungary.

> <nitpicking mode>
> ...
> The dual Monarchy came into effect almost 200 years later
>
> </nitpicking mode>



<clarification mode>

Hence the "hence." (AHD fullsize def. 1a, "For this reason" or 1b, "From
this source.") Sorry for any impression that the K u. K began in 1687,
that was not my intent.

</clarification mode>



Herr P, können Sie uns irgend etwas erklären uber diese interessant "Tokay
de Espagna" Frage?

-- Max

"Max Hauser" > wrote:

> Herr P, können Sie uns irgend etwas erklären uber diese
> interessant "Tokay de Espagna" Frage?

Leider nein, ich habe keine Ahnung, sonst hätte ich schon was
geschrieben.

M.

I just found another article mentioning that mysterious wine:

Duncan Macbride, "General Instructions for the choice of wines and
spirituous liquors; ... and an account of ... disorders cured by the
wine, called Tockay de España" (London, 1793)

This makes the "essence" --> "espagna" theory less probable.

Although Tokay had long been praised for its medical effects (e.g.
Crato Kraftheim, Daniel Fischer, Pápai Pariz, Samuel Dombi, Friedrich
Hoffmann), it became an official medicine in the Hungarian, Austrian
and later German Pharmacopoeia only in the second half of the 19th
century.

Frank

I just found another article mentioning that mysterious wine:

Duncan Macbride, "General Instructions for the choice of wines and
spirituous liquors; ... and an account of ... disorders cured by the
wine, called Tockay de España" (London, 1793)

This makes the "essence" --> "espagna" theory less probable.

Although Tokay had long been praised for its medical effects (e.g.
Crato Kraftheim, Daniel Fischer, Pápai Pariz, Samuel Dombi, Friedrich
Hoffmann), it became an official medicine in the Hungarian, Austrian
and later German Pharmacopoeia only in the second half of the 19th
century.

Frank