2010 CdP Gran Tinel ****

At first it was rather bland. Reminds me of the 8$ Grenache Noir Vielles Vignes I had half a year ago. **

2h decant. Licorice. Some wine-ish latent fruitiness, but cant make it out from under all the licorice. Not much texture. except the licorice roughness. Not much tannin work going on for a so young and expensive wine. Strange.. Just melted licorice. Should be good for Denmark which is in a licorice craze, where every gourmet thing has to be licorice. Even cheese. **

3h decant. some fruits start to form under that licorice. some stewed raspberry with a hint of boysenberry. Still, I could have gotten a Cornas, or a Knights Valley for this price (40$). ***

4h decant. Oh my goodness. Where did that come from? A wonderful grainy tannin texture! Now I have wine in my (Sequoia Grove) glass. 20mins later a thick leathery profile emerge, and the increasingly apparent raspberry compot makes for a nice balance against the chewy tannins and thick leather. ****

Zipping the remaining half bottle for tomorrow. lets see what emerges then. So far its four stars.

On Fri, 20 Feb 2015 15:53:25 -0800, Michael Nielsen wrote:

> 2010 CdP Gran Tinel ****

CdP can be tricky, because it has (broadly speaking) 3 stages of life.
Cornas can be like this too, sometimes.

- for a few years in youth, it's vibrant fruit and tannin driven,
delicious but without notable complexity.

- in middle years, they very often "go to sleep". The fruit and tannins
are somewhat muted and the wine may lack interest, leading people to
think it is past its peak.

- when the wine wakes up, tannins are present but mature (French say mur
or "ripe") and there are further levels of complexity, yes tar, licorice,
leather, but also chocolate, stone, slight bitterness of fruit pits,
herbs, etc. In good vintages these develop for many years...

Now, Grand Tinel's domaine CdP is not the most complicated CdP on the
planet, but I suspect yours was still in stage 2, and the air helped it
wake up a little.

We used to have a sort of troll here who argued vociferously and ad
nauseum that breathing was always bad for wine, I wonder what he would
make of your note!

-E

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On Sunday, February 22, 2015 at 1:13:23 PM UTC+1, Emery Davis` wrote:
> CdP can be tricky, because it has (broadly speaking) 3 stages of life.
> Cornas can be like this too, sometimes.
>
> - for a few years in youth, it's vibrant fruit and tannin driven,
> delicious but without notable complexity.
>
> - in middle years, they very often "go to sleep". The fruit and tannins
> are somewhat muted and the wine may lack interest, leading people to
> think it is past its peak.
>
> - when the wine wakes up, tannins are present but mature (French say mur
> or "ripe") and there are further levels of complexity, yes tar, licorice,
> leather, but also chocolate, stone, slight bitterness of fruit pits,
> herbs, etc. In good vintages these develop for many years...
>
> Now, Grand Tinel's domaine CdP is not the most complicated CdP on the
> planet, but I suspect yours was still in stage 2, and the air helped it
> wake up a little.

Sounds like Barolo,which is why I've always had a hard time with those two types of wine. I dont have access to very mature wines (like those Dale reviews form the 70s and 80s), not even 90s are easy to find, except with some Spanish wines. So I try to find those that has some more age than the typical newest release vintage (which usually ends up in the 4-8y range here), which doesnt seem to be enough for some types. Sometimes I open it the day before for it to open. I found this helps with e.g. Quantum.


> We used to have a sort of troll here who argued vociferously and ad
> nauseum that breathing was always bad for wine, I wonder what he would
> make of your note!

I find it is almost always a beneficial practice

Oh, about the Tinel 2nd day. I got home late from work, so it only had 1h in decanter (from the vacuvin'ed bottle) while I cooked, and it was back to licorice state. My wife commented it was a good wine, but when I told the price was the same as Beringer Knights Valley, she said I should have bought that instead.

On Sunday, February 22, 2015 at 5:13:23 AM UTC-7, Emery Davis` wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Feb 2015 15:53:25 -0800, Michael Nielsen wrote:
>
> > 2010 CdP Gran Tinel ****
>
> CdP can be tricky, because it has (broadly speaking) 3 stages of life.
> Cornas can be like this too, sometimes.
>
> - for a few years in youth, it's vibrant fruit and tannin driven,
> delicious but without notable complexity.
>
> - in middle years, they very often "go to sleep". The fruit and tannins
> are somewhat muted and the wine may lack interest, leading people to
> think it is past its peak.
>
> - when the wine wakes up, tannins are present but mature (French say mur
> or "ripe") and there are further levels of complexity, yes tar, licorice,
> leather, but also chocolate, stone, slight bitterness of fruit pits,
> herbs, etc. In good vintages these develop for many years...
>
> Now, Grand Tinel's domaine CdP is not the most complicated CdP on the
> planet, but I suspect yours was still in stage 2, and the air helped it
> wake up a little.
>
> We used to have a sort of troll here who argued vociferously and ad
> nauseum that breathing was always bad for wine, I wonder what he would
> make of your note!
>
> -E
>
> --
> Questions about wine? Check the FAQ. http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

I think Dale is well aware of that issue. From my recent observations, CdP seems to be made differently from the past. Maybe it is crop related as all of France has had some horrible weather related failures in the last 4 years but I am definitely seeing a difference both in Northern and Southern Rhone. And Rhone wines are pretty much all of the French wine I am drinking now as both Bordeaux and Burgundy have been priced out of the market.

On Sun, 22 Feb 2015 09:49:34 -0800, lleichtman wrote:

> I think Dale is well aware of that issue. From my recent observations,
> CdP seems to be made differently from the past. Maybe it is crop related
> as all of France has had some horrible weather related failures in the
> last 4 years but I am definitely seeing a difference both in Northern
> and Southern Rhone. And Rhone wines are pretty much all of the French
> wine I am drinking now as both Bordeaux and Burgundy have been priced
> out of the market.

Hi Larry,

No doubt, the post was intended for Michael. Actually, I wouldn't
presume to tell Dale anything about wine, at all!

I don't think most of the folks in the Rhone have changed their
techniques. Everyone wants to try new wood, since that's what the
American market wants. But most stick with a more traditional bottle,
also. As you say, the weather of the last few years has been difficult.

-E





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lleichtman wrote:

>
> I think Dale is well aware of that issue. From my recent
> observations, CdP seems to be made differently from the past. Maybe
> it is crop related as all of France has had some horrible weather
> related failures in the last 4 years but I am definitely seeing a
> difference both in Northern and Southern Rhone. And Rhone wines are
> pretty much all of the French wine I am drinking now as both Bordeaux
> and Burgundy have been priced out of the market.


Larry,
I find your comments curious. First of all, I find myself
increasingly priced out of the Rhone, with N. Rhone Syrahs going
stratospheric and CdP going N of $50. Bordeaux prices are insane for
the classed growths, but it's such a big region that reasonably priced
"lesser" wines can still be found. Curiously, I find Bugundy to offer
some of the most reasonable wines, with lots of wine in the $20-$40
range (less than many domestic Pinot Noirs of similar quality).

Mark Lipton

On Monday, February 23, 2015 at 6:10:39 AM UTC+1, Mark Lipton wrote:
> Larry,
> I find your comments curious. First of all, I find myself
> increasingly priced out of the Rhone, with N. Rhone Syrahs going
> stratospheric and CdP going N of $50. Bordeaux prices are insane for
> the classed growths, but it's such a big region that reasonably priced
> "lesser" wines can still be found. Curiously, I find Bugundy to offer
> some of the most reasonable wines, with lots of wine in the $20-$40
> range (less than many domestic Pinot Noirs of similar quality).

Im curious about this. I thought Burgundy was the most expensive region in the world, because it is the region all the millioniares stock up on. Can you list some examples, so I can check on availability in Denmark. The longer the list, the higher probability there is of me finding one .

On 23/02/2015 10:38 AM, Michael Nielsen wrote:
> On Monday, February 23, 2015 at 6:10:39 AM UTC+1, Mark Lipton wrote:
>> Larry,
>> I find your comments curious. First of all, I find myself
>> increasingly priced out of the Rhone, with N. Rhone Syrahs going
>> stratospheric and CdP going N of $50. Bordeaux prices are insane for
>> the classed growths, but it's such a big region that reasonably priced
>> "lesser" wines can still be found. Curiously, I find Bugundy to offer
>> some of the most reasonable wines, with lots of wine in the $20-$40
>> range (less than many domestic Pinot Noirs of similar quality).
>
> Im curious about this. I thought Burgundy was the most expensive region in the world, because it is the region all the millioniares stock up on. Can you list some examples, so I can check on availability in Denmark. The longer the list, the higher probability there is of me finding one .
>
Look for Domaine Arlaud "Roncevie"! It's classed as a Bourgogne but the
climat is sandwiched between Gevrey-Chambertin commune appellation
climats. It's a bargain!
Graham

On 2/23/15 12:38 PM, Michael Nielsen wrote:

> Im curious about this. I thought Burgundy was the most expensive
> region in the world, because it is the region all the millioniares
> stock up on. Can you list some examples, so I can check on
> availability in Denmark. The longer the list, the higher probability
> there is of me finding one .
>

Some of my favorite value producers:

Pavelot Savigny-les-Beaune 1ers
Chandon de Briailles Savigny and Pernand-Vergelesses
Michel Gaunoux Beaune
Denis Bachelet Bourgogne
Robert Chevillon Nuits-St-George Vieilles Vignes
Drouhin Chorey-les-Beaune

These are "traditionalist" producers who use little new oak and who
don't try to overextract or over-chaptalize their wines. They are
available here in the US for $25-40 per bottle, depending on producer,
vintage and retailer. From what I know of your tastes, Michael, I am
not sure that you wouldn't find them "thin" and uninteresting.

Mark Lipton

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