Michael Prónay: Veltliner pronunciation?
 

"Robert Ruzitschka" > wrote in message
. 1...
> Max Hauser wrote in :
>
>> A question arose. Around Vienna over the past 20 years, I
>> remember hearing the second word of Grner Veltliner spoken with
>> light stress on the first syllable -- VELTliner, in German (like
>> the stress of modern trade name VELcro in English). (In
>> English phonetic spelling, the word might be written
>> FELT-leener.)
>>
>> Recently online, some people report another pronunciation in
>> German, veltLINer . Possibly these pronunciations are
>> regional, within Austria?
>
> Hello Max!
> I am not Michael, but as an Austrian living in Vienna for a couple
> of years I may provide some qualified input:
>
> All I hear all the time is Veltliner with emphasis on the second
> syllable - English phonetic spelling: Felt-LEE-ner.
> The emphasis is not too strong but it is definitly not on the first
> syllable. I would definitely pronounce it like that.
>
> Maybe things have changed from 20 years ago - I have been living
> here in Vienna only for the last 16 years :-).
>
> Regards, Robert
>

Robert is correct in his emphasis.

Ron Lel

Thanks for clearing that up - it took me long enough before I learned
how to pronounce Gewurztraminer !

Dan-O

"Ron Lel" > in
...
>
> Robert is correct in his emphasis.
>
> Ron Lel

Ron, your helpful impulse is positive, but that particular posting
illustrates what I was striving to avoid: Arguments by conviction. If you
conclude that "Robert is correct in his emphasis," could you at some point
share the basis from which you got that opinion. This is helpful for
others, and also to make your own point.

I still seek comment from Austria (especially from M. P. who is a recognized
authority and may have wide perspective) on this issue. As I mentioned,
I've heard "VELTliner" around Vienna, again the emphasis was mild. Starting
years ago, and most recently when visiting in late 1993 with restaurant
itinerary as summarized below which received some further circulation, and a
small item used by Kn*ght-R*dder related to a special election at the same
time, where I live back in California, involving a Styrian-born actor as
successful candidate for state governor. (At the time, that topic was so
popular in Vienna, it was scarcely possible to pay for one's own "eighth" of
GV in a restaurant if it became known that one was from California, and
EVERYone wanted to share their opinions on the matter.)

--
Porterhouse (not for steaks, for wild mushrooms then in season); Gösser
Bierklinik (open-faced sandwiches by the square meter); Trézniewski's
take-out of course; Entler; Fratelli; Bohème; Schwartzen Kameel; Café
Diglas; Immervoll (recent popular fresh lively place, Wiener-Küche classics
plus new things, we got clear soup w/Griessnockerl, Rinsdgulasch "klein,"
Kürbis-raviol w/ brown-butter sauce, "Moor in Hemd," even some yellow-plum
moonshine "Kricherl" from under the counter; Luftberg @ Prater;
12-Apostelkeller, offering along with its hearty peasant food both Veltliner
and Grüner Veltiner ("recommended for diabetics"); Demels; Immervoll
again -- spicy shrimp deep-fried Frühlingsrolle (Chinese-style and
exquisitely garnished by the way, if not Wiener-Küche), Käsespätzle, and
Rindsgulasch "gross"; finally to Porterhouse again for seasonal dessert of
Topfennockerl with plum stew and Kürbisparfait with pear sauce. (Burp.)

I wrote in message ...

> ... most recently when visiting in late 1993


That was late 2003 of course, sorry for the error.

"Max Hauser" > wrote:

> A question arose. Around Vienna over the past 20 years, I
> remember hearing the second word of Grüner Veltliner spoken with
> light stress on the first syllable -- VELTliner, in German (like
> the stress of modern trade name VELcro in English). (In
> English phonetic spelling, the word might be written
> FELT-leener.)
>
> Recently online, some people report another pronunciation in
> German, veltLINer . Possibly these pronunciations are
> regional, within Austria?

Sorry, I am late (have been really busy). It's veltLINer.

M.

"Max Hauser" > wrote:

> As I mentioned, I've heard "VELTliner" around Vienna, again the
> emphasis was mild.

Never heard that. Possibly the same people that pronounce
"barrique" on the first sillable? (One can hear that quite
commonly in the Burgenland, but it's wrong, of course).

M.

"Michael Pronay" in ...
| "Max Hauser" > wrote:
|
| | As I mentioned, I've heard "VELTliner" around
| | Vienna, again the emphasis was mild.
|
| Never heard that. Possibly the same people that pronounce
| "barrique" on the first sillable? (One can hear that quite
| commonly in the Burgenland, but it's wrong, of course).
|

OK, thanks, and also to all other respondents. I stand fully corrected and
will proceed accordingly. (Either my memory failed -- not for the first
time! -- or I was listening to eccentrics. Also not for the first time.)

Cheers -- Max

Mi e' parso che Michael Pronay abbia scritto:

> Never heard that. Possibly the same people that pronounce
> "barrique" on the first sillable? (One can hear that quite
> commonly in the Burgenland, but it's wrong, of course).

A winemaker from Liechtenstein, who works in Italy in his Buranco
estate and who also Mike T. has met with us in october, used to
say "cabernet sauvignon" with the stress on the "caub" and "sauv"
syllabes.
Is that correct or just a mispelling due to his origins? I always
thought the stress should fall on the final syllabe of both
words.
--
Vilco
Think Pink , Drink Rose'

"Vilco" > wrote in news:JDGle.29589$795.907406
@twister1.libero.it:

> Mi e' parso che Michael Pronay abbia scritto:
>
>> Never heard that. Possibly the same people that pronounce
>> "barrique" on the first sillable? (One can hear that quite
>> commonly in the Burgenland, but it's wrong, of course).
>
> A winemaker from Liechtenstein, who works in Italy in his Buranco
> estate and who also Mike T. has met with us in october, used to
> say "cabernet sauvignon" with the stress on the "caub" and "sauv"
> syllabes.
> Is that correct or just a mispelling due to his origins? I always
> thought the stress should fall on the final syllabe of both
> words.

I shall be corrected if wrong, but french tends not to accent any syllables
at least not to the extent of other languages, the flow is the important
thing.

--
Joseph Coulter
Cruises and Vacations
http://www.josephcoulter.com/

"Dan The Man" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Thanks for clearing that up - it took me long enough before I learned
> how to pronounce Gewurztraminer !
>
> Dan-O
>

But then again, even on some wine lists in Alsace they struggle with it:
occasionally you even find the spelling "Gewurstraminer"...as if the stuff
was meant to accompany sausages!

Yves T

In ,
Mike Tommasi > typed:

> The French language accents the last syllable of every word,
> without
> exception. I believe the same is true for Hebrew and Japanese.


I can't say what French or Hebrew do, but that's certainly not
true of Japanese. Japanese words are spoken very evenly, with
little or no extra stress put on any syllable. To a speaker of
English, that usually makes it sound like the stress is on the
first syllable.

--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup

"Ken Blake" in ...
| In ,
| Mike Tommasi > typed:
|
| | .., French language accents the last syllable of every word,
| | without exception. I believe the same is true for Hebrew
| | and Japanese.
|

Exceptions can sometimes be heard when Parisian drivers indulge their
tradition of self-expression at other drivers, often with feeling.

"IMbecile! Espèce de coCHON!"

The stress moves around with poetic license.

On Fri, 27 May 2005 10:52:16 -0700, "Max Hauser" > sa=
id:

] "Ken Blake" in ...
] | In ,
] | Mike Tommasi > typed:
] |
] | | .., French language accents the last syllable of every word,
] | | without exception. I believe the same is true for Hebrew
] | | and Japanese.
] |
]=20
] Exceptions can sometimes be heard when Parisian drivers indulge their=20
] tradition of self-expression at other drivers, often with feeling.
]=20
] "IMbecile! Esp=E8ce de coCHON!"
]=20
] The stress moves around with poetic license.=20
]=20
]=20

Very true. I think there is wide regional variation, what Mike says
may be true in the midi (where he lives): "rose", properly a 2 syllable
word in French, is pronounced ros-UH. But in much of France the
second syllable is silent, therefore the emphasis is defacto on the
first syllable... ;) The same may be said of "une" also: that's=20
oon-UH ros-UH for our southern friend. (Don't know if "une"
has two syllables properly speaking).

-E
--=20
Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies

In ,
Emery Davis > typed:

> On Fri, 27 May 2005 10:52:16 -0700, "Max Hauser"
> > said:
>
> ] "Ken Blake" in ...
> ] | In ,
> ] | Mike Tommasi > typed:
> ] |
> ] | | .., French language accents the last syllable of every
> word,
> ] | | without exception. I believe the same is true for Hebrew
> ] | | and Japanese.
> ] |
> ]
> ] Exceptions can sometimes be heard when Parisian drivers
> indulge
> their ] tradition of self-expression at other drivers, often
> with
> feeling. ]
> ] "IMbecile! Espèce de coCHON!"
> ]
> ] The stress moves around with poetic license.
> ]
> ]
>
> Very true. I think there is wide regional variation, what Mike
> says
> may be true in the midi (where he lives): "rose", properly a 2
> syllable
> word in French, is pronounced ros-UH. But in much of France
> the
> second syllable is silent, therefore the emphasis is defacto on
> the
> first syllable... ;) The same may be said of "une" also:
> that's
> oon-UH ros-UH for our southern friend. (Don't know if "une"
> has two syllables properly speaking).


Thinking about this, I've heard native Burgundians pronounce the
name of the city DI-jon, with a clear stress on the first
syllable.

--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup

On Fri, 27 May 2005 20:21:24 +0200, Mike Tommasi > said:

] On Fri, 27 May 2005 20:05:50 +0200, Emery Davis >
] wrote:
]
[]
] >
] >Very true. I think there is wide regional variation, what Mike says
] >may be true in the midi (where he lives): "rose", properly a 2 syllable
] >word in French, is pronounced ros-UH. But in much of France the
] >second syllable is silent, therefore the emphasis is defacto on the
] >first syllable... ;) The same may be said of "une" also: that's
] >oon-UH ros-UH for our southern friend. (Don't know if "une"
]
] You have been spending too much time south... ;-)
]
] "Rose" is a single syllable when at the end of a phrase or just before
] a word starting with a vowel. The final e is "caduque"...
]
] But poetic rules (not licence...) might make rose into a two syllable
] word. And as you know, we speak like poets here in the south...
]

Indeed you a I learned to curse in Marseille. :)

I have (oddly enough) had this discussion with a room full of
native types, everyone agrees that there is a second "syllabe
caduque", as you point out. I have never heard tell of the rule,
but I just looked it up, and PR has it as 1 syllable! So maybe
I've been wrong all these years.

Then again I asked my 7 year old daughter, she clapped hands
along with "ros-UH," looked at me like I was an idiot, and said
"it's two, we learned that with Maitresse last year."

-E
--
Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies

Stavo dormendo su un bancale di lambro quando il post di Mike Tommasi
mi desto'

> Hey Vilco, we are spending a day with Kurt and Sonja of Buranco next
> weekend... !!!

Have a nice weekend! His bottle of Chaampagnier (Pinot Noir) popped on
the last IHV meeting has pleased everyone.
BTW, I contacted Arnolfini and he told me he doesn't sell to simple
private winelovers as me, and his local agent too, but I will contact
the agent anyway.
Would you please remember me the name of the Sauternes you said
Arnolfini has in stock and which, IIRC, we drunk at Francone's place
in Ne'?
--
Vilco
Think pink, drink rose'

"Emery Davis" > wrote in message
. ..
] I think there is wide regional variation, what Mike says
may be true in the midi (where he lives): "rose", properly a 2 syllable
word in French, is pronounced ros-UH. But in much of France the
second syllable is silent, therefore the emphasis is defacto on the
first syllable... ;) The same may be said of "une" also: that's
oon-UH ros-UH for our southern friend. (Don't know if "une"
has two syllables properly speaking).

Ay caramba! (in the voice of Bart Simpson)
You folks in Europe are as confused about proper diction as we in the USA.
:^/

I don't feel so bad now about arguing with my grammar school teachers that
"rhythm" has _two_ syllables (despite the fact that it contains only one
vowel). Can't you _hear_ them?

Sorry this is so OT, but this thread has definitely gone "sideways". ;^D

Tom S