Michael Prónay: Veltliner pronunciation?
 

A question arose. Around Vienna over the past 20 years, I remember hearing
the second word of Grüner Veltliner spoken with light stress on the first
syllable -- VELTliner, in German (like the stress of modern trade name
VELcro in English). (In English phonetic spelling, the word might be
written FELT-leener.)

Recently online, some people report another pronunciation in German,
veltLINer . Possibly these pronunciations are regional, within Austria?

Could Hr. Prónay in particular comment on this? (While it seems that many
people hold opinions, I knew of Hr. Prónay as a leading Austrian food-wine
journalist for many years before he appeared on newsgroups.)

I did, of course, first check online archives of AFW and its predecessors as
wine newsgroup (rec.food.drink and net.wines). Without luck, though I
report that the first mention of Grüner Veltliner on these newsgroups
appeared 1983 and can be currently read he

http://tinyurl.com/9r3c5

Also, an excellent thread on Grüner Veltliner's origins and variations, and
other varietal names, appeared May 2000 and can be viewed currently here
(use "show options" link to see rest of the thread):

http://tinyurl.com/cyyzo

That thread includes many contributions from The Usual Suspects.


-- Max

Max Hauser wrote in :

> A question arose. Around Vienna over the past 20 years, I
> remember hearing the second word of Grner Veltliner spoken with
> light stress on the first syllable -- VELTliner, in German (like
> the stress of modern trade name VELcro in English). (In
> English phonetic spelling, the word might be written
> FELT-leener.)
>
> Recently online, some people report another pronunciation in
> German, veltLINer . Possibly these pronunciations are
> regional, within Austria?

Hello Max!
I am not Michael, but as an Austrian living in Vienna for a couple
of years I may provide some qualified input:

All I hear all the time is Veltliner with emphasis on the second
syllable - English phonetic spelling: Felt-LEE-ner.
The emphasis is not too strong but it is definitly not on the first
syllable. I would definitely pronounce it like that.

Maybe things have changed from 20 years ago - I have been living
here in Vienna only for the last 16 years :-).

Regards, Robert

Stavo dormendo su un bancale di lambro quando il post di Mike Tommasi
mi desto'

>> Have a nice weekend! His bottle of Chaampagnier (Pinot Noir) popped
>> on the last IHV meeting has pleased everyone.

> Schaanpagnier (it comes from Schaan)... careful or you'll get him in
> trouble ;-)

Oooooooooops! :)

>> ...
> Cru Barrejats

Thanks!
--
Vilco
Think pink, drink rose'

"Vilco" > wrote:

> A winemaker from Liechtenstein, who works in Italy in his
> Buranco estate and who also Mike T. has met with us in october,
> used to say "cabernet sauvignon" with the stress on the "caub"
> and "sauv" syllabes.
> Is that correct

No.

> or just a mispelling due to his origins?

99% due to mispronunciation due to his Swiss/Alemanic German
origin. It's well nkown that German speaking Swiss stress
(Nearly?) every French word wrongly on the first syllable.

M.

On Fri, 27 May 2005 15:02:01 GMT, "Vilco" > wrote:

>Mi e' parso che Michael Pronay abbia scritto:
>
>> Never heard that. Possibly the same people that pronounce
>> "barrique" on the first sillable? (One can hear that quite
>> commonly in the Burgenland, but it's wrong, of course).
>
>A winemaker from Liechtenstein, who works in Italy in his Buranco
>estate and who also Mike T. has met with us in october, used to
>say "cabernet sauvignon" with the stress on the "caub" and "sauv"
>syllabes.
>Is that correct or just a mispelling due to his origins? I always
>thought the stress should fall on the final syllabe of both
>words.

I am not convinced there is ONE correct stress. If you are going to
stick French words in the middle of a flowing English sentence the
stresses and pronunciation is going to be different from the same
words in a French sentence.

I'd say that providing you don't pronounce the "t" in "cabernet", and
you get the "gn" in "sauvignon" roughly right, noone is going to worry
too much.

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

Steve Slatcher > wrote:

> I'd say that providing you don't pronounce the "t" in
> "cabernet", and you get the "gn" in "sauvignon" roughly right,

Which isn't really tough - just think of the n and y in a word like
"nyet" (russian for "no").

> noone is going to worry too much.
^^^^^

It's not the first time I see this spelling which irritates me
insofar that I always rhyme it with (Bonny) Doon. Is this spelling
for "no one" (which I learnt in school) correct?

M.

On Sat, 28 May 2005 14:52:37 +0200, Michael Pronay >
wrote:

>Steve Slatcher > wrote:
>
>> I'd say that providing you don't pronounce the "t" in
>> "cabernet", and you get the "gn" in "sauvignon" roughly right,
>
>Which isn't really tough - just think of the n and y in a word like
>"nyet" (russian for "no").

Or the "gn" in French.

>> noone is going to worry too much.
> ^^^^^
>
>It's not the first time I see this spelling which irritates me
>insofar that I always rhyme it with (Bonny) Doon. Is this spelling
>for "no one" (which I learnt in school) correct?

No. But you knew what it meant despite it annoying you. Maybe one
day it will be correct. Language is like that :-).

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

On Sat, 28 May 2005 14:52:37 +0200, Michael Pronay >
wrote:

>Steve Slatcher > wrote:
>
>> I'd say that providing you don't pronounce the "t" in
>> "cabernet", and you get the "gn" in "sauvignon" roughly right,
>
>Which isn't really tough - just think of the n and y in a word like
>"nyet" (russian for "no").

Or the "gn" in French.

>> noone is going to worry too much.
> ^^^^^
>
>It's not the first time I see this spelling which irritates me
>insofar that I always rhyme it with (Bonny) Doon. Is this spelling
>for "no one" (which I learnt in school) correct?

No. But you knew what it meant despite it annoying you. Maybe one
day it will be correct. Language is like that :-).

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

Steve Slatcher > wrote:

>>> I'd say that providing you don't pronounce the "t" in
>>> "cabernet", and you get the "gn" in "sauvignon" roughly right,

>> Which isn't really tough - just think of the n and y in a word
>> like "nyet" (russian for "no").

> Or the "gn" in French.

Recursion is everywhere.

M.

"Michael Pronay" in ...
|
| | noone is going to worry too much.
| ^^^^^
|
| It's not the first time I see this spelling which irritates me
| insofar that I always rhyme it with (Bonny) Doon.

You are not alone. English, a hybridized tongue (as you know) that changed
more in recent centuries than many European siblings, is notoriously
irregular in spelling and pronunciation. (I will not now indulge in the #1
newsgroup vice of eagerly repeating cliché examples yet another time.)
(Correction: #2 vice -- upstaged recently by people quoting long postings
WHOLE, to add a few words of comment.) (Sorry.)

As I said, you are not alone. President of the US during a turbulent
period, a few decades ago, was Lyndon Baines Johnson (from Texas, which had
been an independent country briefly and in the minds of some of my Texan
friends, still is). (That era in the US was, by the way, not without some
parallels in Austria's more turbulent early-20th-century history around the
Authoritarian Constitution and the Dollfuss assassination.)

Johnson would read prepared speeches, and trip over words capable of
mistake. He complained privately about "misled," a word he did not
otherwise use, that he read out loud as "mizzuld." (He complained, but his
speechwriters forgot and re-used it.) (This emerged in later biographical
writing.)

Native speakers have difficulty pronouncing English. (Even high officials.)

Max Hauser wrote:

> Johnson would read prepared speeches, and trip over words capable of
> mistake. He complained privately about "misled," a word he did not
> otherwise use, that he read out loud as "mizzuld." (He complained, but his
> speechwriters forgot and re-used it.) (This emerged in later biographical
> writing.)

At least, unlike Spiro Agnew, he did not have the indignity of having to
read copy written by Wm. Safire. Nattering nabobs of negativsm indeed! ;-)

>
> Native speakers have difficulty pronouncing English. (Even high officials.)

Hey! What part of nucular doncha lahk, Yankee?

Mark Lipton